DL Launches Delta Shuttle SEA-LAX/SFO

DL747400 · Mon May 09, 2016 1:14 pm

Interesting move to launch the Shuttle product in additional west coast markets beyond LAX-SFO. Nice move.

http://news.delta.com/delta-shuttle-takes-seattle

avi8 · Mon May 09, 2016 1:19 pm

If they're currently at 120 peak day departures, how are they going to get to 152 peak day flights during the summer? It's amazing how fast this hub was built. I wish them the best.

OzarkD9S · Mon May 09, 2016 1:21 pm

"Delta’s eight peak-day flights from Seattle-Tacoma International Airport to Los Angeles International Airport and eight peak-day flights to San Francisco International Airport will feature the service."

I wonder what the schedule will look like with 8 daily flights in each market. Every 2 hours?

panamair · Mon May 09, 2016 1:22 pm

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 2):
"Delta’s eight peak-day flights from Seattle-Tacoma International Airport to Los Angeles International Airport

SEA-LAX will go to 10x daily starting May 23.

DL747400 · Mon May 09, 2016 1:24 pm

And very nice to see SEA-LAX increasing to 10 daily flights effective May 23!

commavia · Mon May 09, 2016 1:33 pm

I don't think this has much if any effect on the schedule - I believe, but could be wrong, that SEA-LAX going to 10x daily was already planned - but this is, indeed, an interesting marketing move. We'll see what impact, if any, the introduction of some tailored amenities like dedicated check-in and gates close to security has on Delta's competitiveness in these markets, particularly versus Alaska.

On that point, funny to see Delta milking "collectively, Delta offers more flights between Seattle, Los Angeles and San Francisco than any other airline" for all it's worth while they still can - once the merger goes through, I suspect Alaska will handily beat Delta (and every other airline) on that metric!

intotheair · Mon May 09, 2016 1:45 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 5):
On that point, funny to see Delta milking "collectively, Delta offers more flights between Seattle, Los Angeles and San Francisco than any other airline" for all it's worth while they still can - once the merger goes through, I suspect Alaska will handily beat Delta (and every other airline) on that metric!

Looking at schedules for weekdays in June, AS is 8x on SEA-SFO, and I'm too lazy to actually crunch the numbers so I'm going to assume that 8x 737 is at least more capacity or flat compared to DL 10x E175. But on SEA-LAX, AS is already 14x, and AA is 5x, so even without counting VX on those routes, I'd say AS has DL beat there.

a380787 · Mon May 09, 2016 1:47 pm

If we assume no schedule pruning, AS+VX becomes 8+5=13x daily in SEA-SFO, UA at 9x, both of which are at higher frequency than DL's so-called "shuttle" offering.

SEA-LAX is even scarier - with 14x on AS and another 3x on VX to make a total of 17x.

The "Shuttle" part is just definitely just a marketing ploy - we all witnessed how well that played out on DCA-LGA.

avi8 · Mon May 09, 2016 1:52 pm

DL shuttle has shifted its focus. It's more of a specific service and the perks it includes rather than a literal hourly shuttle.

[Edited 2016-05-09 06:52:57]

FlyPNS1 · Mon May 09, 2016 2:20 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 5):
On that point, funny to see Delta milking "collectively, Delta offers more flights between Seattle, Los Angeles and San Francisco than any other airline" for all it's worth while they still can - once the merger goes through, I suspect Alaska will handily beat Delta (and every other airline) on that metric!

Until AS chops the schedule down in order to prop up yields. They didn't buy Virgin America just to keep yields low.

OA412 · Mon May 09, 2016 2:22 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 7):
The "Shuttle" part is just definitely just a marketing ploy

Well yes, that's pretty clear?

Quoting a380787 (Reply 7):
we all witnessed how well that played out on DCA-LGA.

You mean the shuttle that DL and PA before it flew for at least 30 years and continue to fly?

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 9):
Until AS chops the schedule down in order to prop up yields. They didn't buy Virgin America just to keep yields low.

That's exactly what will happen. No way they'll hold onto that amount of frequency long-term.

[Edited 2016-05-09 07:23:03]

a380787 · Mon May 09, 2016 2:28 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 10):

You mean the shuttle that DL and PA before it flew for at least 30 years and continue to fly?

Yup, the one that is reporting 40-something percent load factors, less than 30 pax avg per flight, and has mid-day service gaps.

VCEflyboy · Mon May 09, 2016 2:28 pm

It's just a PR move, and one that seems to be from the 90s.
Dedicate check in desks??? Who checks in at the desk any more??
Complimentary Wall Street journal? Who reads anything on paper??
Which century are these guys in?? Get real!

HeeseokKoo · Mon May 09, 2016 2:34 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 12):
It's just a PR move, and one that seems to be from the 90s.
Dedicate check in desks??? Who checks in at the desk any more??
Complimentary Wall Street journal? Who reads anything on paper??
Which century are these guys in?? Get real!

Free premium snack and free wine/beer on the economy class is more than welcome.

commavia · Mon May 09, 2016 2:41 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 9):
Until AS chops the schedule down in order to prop up yields. They didn't buy Virgin America just to keep yields low.

No doubt about it.

But even net of schedule integration/rationalization, I strongly suspect that Delta's marketing statement that it "collectively ... offers more flights between Seattle, Los Angeles and San Francisco than any other airline" will not hold true once Alaska and Virgin America merge.

hiflyeras · Mon May 09, 2016 3:15 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 12):
It's just a PR move, and one that seems to be from the 90s.
Dedicate check in desks??? Who checks in at the desk any more??
Complimentary Wall Street journal? Who reads anything on paper??
Which century are these guys in?? Get real!

The only perk I saw that might be nice is close-in gates. Fliers with status already get a free drink, dedicated check-in, assigned seats, free bag check, etc. It sounds so east-coast fancy though....Shuttle!

B747forever · Mon May 09, 2016 3:16 pm

I wonder how much longer UA can hold on to its 2 daily CRJ LAX-SEA flights.

a380787 · Mon May 09, 2016 3:25 pm

It's amazing in this day-and-age, THIS item is considered a perk :

"Assigned seating" - source : news.delta.com/delta-shuttle-takes-seattle

What's next ? "Complimentary in-flight magazine" ?

slcpdxatl · Mon May 09, 2016 3:44 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 17):
It's amazing in this day-and-age, THIS item is considered a perk :

"Assigned seating" - source : news.delta.com/delta-shuttle-takes-seattle

Ummm, have you heard of Southwest and Spirit who also serve Seattle?

a380787 · Mon May 09, 2016 3:50 pm

Quoting slcpdxatl (Reply 19):
Ummm, have you heard of Southwest and Spirit who also serve Seattle?

Because those are the largest competitors ?? Leader on SEA-SFO is UA while leader on SEA-LAX is AS.

VX is flying 55" first class seats on those routes and DL is focusing their marketing efforts at ..... NK.

tlecam · Mon May 09, 2016 3:51 pm

Why are people so annoyed that Delta is adding flights? ARen't more flights good for aviation enthusiasts? The disdain is kind of nuts.

I fly the BOS-LGA shuttle regularly and love it. Service is great. Convenience is great. I used to live in SF and flew to Seattle a lot. I'd welcome a similar shuttle service if I still lived there.

slcpdxatl · Mon May 09, 2016 3:56 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 20):
Because those are the largest competitors ?? Leader on SEA-SFO is UA while leader on SEA-LAX is AS.

VX is flying 55" first class seats on those routes and DL is focusing their marketing efforts at .....

Did I say they are the largest competitors?? They are in the market, and they don't offer free assigned seating. So yes, in this day and age, this is a perk if your competitors don't offer it. They are competitors, regardless of if they are the largest competitors. Don't put words in my mouth.

Aloha717200 · Mon May 09, 2016 4:00 pm

Well hell, I'm happy to hear the news at least. Why not?

a380787 · Mon May 09, 2016 4:05 pm

Quoting slcpdxatl (Reply 22):

Did I say they are the largest competitors?? They are in the market, and they don't offer free assigned seating. So yes, in this day and age, this is a perk if your competitors don't offer it. They are competitors, regardless of if they are the largest competitors. Don't put words in my mouth.

You're the one labeling dissenting opinions as trolls (see reply 18). It's humorous you believe NK's paltry service actually deserves a marketing response from DL.

The funnier part is that DL had to label it as "Shuttle" to trick unsuspecting travelers into believing that they offer shuttle-like frequency when in fact they're the frequency leader in NEITHER market.

N717TW · Mon May 09, 2016 4:59 pm

While I agree that its great from a customer perspective to see an upgrade in service, as a Northeastern-er, this is a total corruption of the Shuttle brand. Delta has turned "Shuttle" into a business-oriented, slightly upgraded experience with semi-frequent flights. But without the real flexibility that the Shuttle has traditionally meant.

For 45+ years, the Shuttle has meant hourly or nearly hourly flights with easy walk-up purchasing and extremely flexible same-day change of flights. Until 10 or so years ago, it meant guaranteed seat too with backup planes. It was really about knowing you could get to or from NYC when you needed to with a decent modicum of predictability. New York Air and Pan Am were the ones that introduced frills. The original Eastern Airlines Shuttle had all the same charm of the 42nd street shuttle during rush hour.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 17):
It's amazing in this day-and-age, THIS item is considered a perk :

"Assigned seating" - source : news.delta.com/delta-shuttle-takes-seattle

What's next ? "Complimentary in-flight magazine" ?

Because until maybe 18 months ago it didn't have assigned seats.

alfa164 · Mon May 09, 2016 5:09 pm

Quoting tlecam (Reply 21):
Why are people so annoyed that Delta is adding flights? ARen't more flights good for aviation enthusiasts? The disdain is kind of nuts. I fly the BOS-LGA shuttle regularly and love it. Service is great. Convenience is great. I used to live in SF and flew to Seattle a lot. I'd welcome a similar shuttle service if I still lived there.

Quoting slcpdxatl (Reply 18):
Well, the usual trolls are out in full force Honestly guys, the negativity that you and others spread has poisoned this site. Over the last few years, this site has become so much less enjoyable to aviation lovers because of your constant negativity. Everyone bemoans the decreasing amenities on airlines, but when an airline ups the service levels and amenities, the haters are immediately there criticizing and complaining. Tell me, what negative points can possibly be brought up about this? The average joe passenger (not those with status) will now get free alcoholic drinks and upgraded snacks, free papers (yes, many people do still read papers) and close gates. I fail to see the negatives in this, unless you are the competition.

Thank you. It is outright depressing that no one can have any serious discussion of an airline's performance or service without the snide, negative, juvenile comments we see here. And you are right - it is always the usual trolls - or troll....

Quoting B747forever (Reply 16):

I wonder how much longer UA can hold on to its 2 daily CRJ LAX-SEA flights.

Don't even bring up the subject of UA and the CRJ's!

global1 · Mon May 09, 2016 5:10 pm

It's no coincidence that the latest Delta commercial, recently released and targeted for the local SEA market, ends with Donald Sutherland saying "there's no stopping Seattle".

CSeries would eventually be a great fit.

alfa164 · Mon May 09, 2016 5:29 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 29):
If CR7 = CRJ in your book, then E75 = ERJ.

The last time I looked, UA claimed the had about 120 CRJ's and more than 200 ERJ's - all 50 passengers or less - in the UX fleet.

Are they lying? Or maybe you are the one being disingenuous....

a380787 · Mon May 09, 2016 5:31 pm

Quoting ALFA164 (Reply 30):

The last time I looked, UA claimed the had about 120 CRJ's and more than 200 ERJ's - all 50 passengers or less - in the UX fleet.

Are they lying? Or maybe you are the one being disingenuous....

That's irrelevant because SEA-LAX is flown by CR7 not CRJ-200. "CRJ" implies single class 50-seater, which is false for this particular route.

Another fact : On SEA-SFO, AS and UA are both mostly mainline while DL is near-100% regional, if not full 100%.

Please check your facts before flamebait labeling others as "disingenuous"

[Edited 2016-05-09 10:35:02]

EyeSky · Mon May 09, 2016 5:35 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 12):
It's just a PR move, and one that seems to be from the 90s.
Dedicate check in desks??? Who checks in at the desk any more??
Complimentary Wall Street journal? Who reads anything on paper??
Which century are these guys in?? Get real!

They're not check-in desks, rather dedicated self check-in kiosks for shuttle pax only. These kiosks are still located in the DL ticketing area but are separate from the other check-in/bag drop counters and kiosks (near the escalators that come up to the ticketing level from baggage claim and the sky bridges that connect to the parking garage). DL is banking on the fact that most pax flying on the shuttle will already have checked in electronically, have an e-boarding pass, are not checking a bag and will go straight to security.

As for the WSJ - I can't remember the last time I read the print version either. Not sure if these flights will have GoGo and some folks don't like to pay for it anyway so I can see that carrying some print versions could be a benefit.

alfa164 · Mon May 09, 2016 5:36 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 31):
Please check your facts before flamebait labeling others as "disingenuous"

"Flamebait"? Please read what I wrote - if you can, without fire in your eyes. I suggested a previous poster should not mention UA and their CRJ's, lest the troll start foaming at the mouth.

Now, the subsequent posts show why. I rest my case.

a380787 · Mon May 09, 2016 5:41 pm

Quoting ALFA164 (Reply 33):

"Flamebait"? Please read what I wrote - if you can, without fire in your eyes. I suggested a previous poster should not mention UA and their CRJ's, lest the troll start foaming at the mouth.

Now, the subsequent posts show why. I rest my case.

You failed to highlight the false information in the previous poster's assertion of "CRJ on LAX-SEA", thus attempting to perpetuate the myth that has been solidly debunked.

The last time I checked, DLX still has over 170-180 50-seaters. Please explain these.

[Edited 2016-05-09 10:42:12]

alfa164 · Mon May 09, 2016 5:44 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 34):
ou failed to highlight the false information in the previous poster's assertion of "CRJ on LAX-SEA", thus attempting to perpetuate the myth that has been solidly debunked. The last time I checked, DLX still has over 170-180 50-seaters.

What myth? That UA still flies almost twice as many small regionals as any of their competitors?

Sorry; that is not a myth

a380787 · Mon May 09, 2016 5:48 pm

Quoting ALFA164 (Reply 35):

What myth? That UA still flies almost twice as many small regionals as any of their competitors?

Sorry; that is not a myth

2 things incorrect with your post :

1. The "myth" referred to was implication that 1-class 50-seat CRJ-200 runs UA SEA-LAX, which is false since it's a CR7.

2. The latest tally of E135+E145+CRJ200 on UAX = ~253, hardly "double" that of DLX, which is in the ballpark of 180. Adding in the props get it up to ~276, which is still far cry of "double DLX", as you attempt to portray.

OA412 · Mon May 09, 2016 5:48 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 11):
Yup, the one that is reporting 40-something percent load factors, less than 30 pax avg per flight, and has mid-day service gaps.

One example doesn't prove that overall shuttle product is not working. IIRC, it's working quite well in the ORD-LGA and LAX-SFO markets.

michman · Mon May 09, 2016 5:50 pm

Quoting HiflyerAS (Reply 15):
The only perk I saw that might be nice is close-in gates. Fliers with status already get a free drink, dedicated check-in, assigned seats, free bag check, etc. It sounds so east-coast fancy though....Shuttle!

DL fliers with status do not get a free drink (unless they happen to be in Comfort+ seating).

alfa164 · Mon May 09, 2016 5:55 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 36):
2. The latest tally of E135+E145+CRJ200 on UAX = ~253, hardly "double" that of DLX, which is in the ballpark of 180. Adding in the props get it up to ~276, which is still far cry of "double DLX", as you attempt to portray

The last numbers I saw for Delta were 150 CJR/EM35.45. Perhaps you found some more for them.

a380787 · Mon May 09, 2016 5:57 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 37):

One example doesn't prove that overall shuttle product is not working. IIRC, it's working quite well in the ORD-LGA and LAX-SFO markets.

IIRC the yield commanded on LAX-SFO is comparable to AA/UA while the slight yield premium on ORD-LGA can be somewhat attributed to the conscious choice of placing the shuttle out of LGA Marine Air Terminal which depresses connections and boosts the contribution from local O&D.

Do we have any recent DOT/DiioMi fare data that can solidly conclude that DL manages to command a meaningful yield premium over their primary competitors because of the enhanced Shuttle offering ?

a380787 · Mon May 09, 2016 5:59 pm

Quoting ALFA164 (Reply 38):
The last numbers I saw for Delta were 150 CJR/EM35.45. Perhaps you found some more for them.

I've incorrectly used slightly outdated figures, so I stand corrected.

Freshside3 · Mon May 09, 2016 6:01 pm

Lots of better things DL could be doing. Having more SFO-LAX, as a high-frequency operation is a bit redundant, especially with the ATC/Flow Control delays SFO is known for.

It would have been better for DL to go after the SFO-BUR or OAK-LAX markets instead.

EyeSky · Mon May 09, 2016 6:04 pm

Quoting N717TW (Reply 25):
The original Eastern Airlines Shuttle had all the same charm of the 42nd street shuttle during rush hour.

Probably showing my age here, but I used to fly the original EA shuttle back when they had Electra's and DC-9s with an occasional 1049 Connie pulling backup duty if needed. Some of the Electras still had the rear lounge installed but EA wasn't too well known for 'pampering' their customers back then, especially on short haul, and the lounges were soon replaced with regular seats. To be sure, these flights weren't that glamorous, and I remember in the late 70's and early 80's taking 722 'cattle car' service to and from college. But when I was a young kid bitten hard by the airline bug and looking for any chance to get my butt on any 'plane, I'd save up my lawn mowing and 'chore' money and gladly hand over $25 for an hour long (+/-) adventure to LGA. After a couple of hours spent there happily 'plane spotting I'd plunk down another $25 for the return to BOS. Never did get to fly on a Connie though, which is one of my lifelong regrets.

gonnagetbumpy · Mon May 09, 2016 6:11 pm

Isn't it great for all fliers when we have an airline improve its product offering? Shuttle has better snacks and drinks which puts pressure on other airlines to better their product. It really is a benefit for all consumers regardless of which airline they fly.

mysterzip · Mon May 09, 2016 6:12 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 12):

Very well-said!!
The PR release is definitely a marketing ploy, seeking attention of the general media. Public relations is everything when you are trying to eat market share.

Wasn't Seattle NWA's focus city at some point?

hiflyeras · Mon May 09, 2016 6:15 pm

Quoting N717TW (Reply 25):
While I agree that its great from a customer perspective to see an upgrade in service, as a Northeastern-er, this is a total corruption of the Shuttle brand. Delta has turned "Shuttle" into a business-oriented, slightly upgraded experience with semi-frequent flights. But without the real flexibility that the Shuttle has traditionally meant.

For 45+ years, the Shuttle has meant hourly or nearly hourly flights with easy walk-up purchasing and extremely flexible same-day change of flights. Until 10 or so years ago, it meant guaranteed seat too with backup planes. It was really about knowing you could get to or from NYC when you needed to with a decent modicum of predictability. New York Air and Pan Am were the ones that introduced frills. The original Eastern Airlines Shuttle had all the same charm of the 42nd street shuttle during rush hour.

Quoting michman (Reply 37):
DL fliers with status do not get a free drink (unless they happen to be in Comfort+ seating).

AS MVP Golds and 75k's get a free drink on every flight.

Prost · Mon May 09, 2016 6:50 pm

Somewhat related, does anybody know if DL will take over VX's ticket counter after the VX/AS deal is consummated? Or is that too far down the road to count on?

TVNWZ · Mon May 09, 2016 7:08 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 34):
. The "myth" referred to was implication that 1-class 50-seat CRJ-200 runs UA SEA-LAX, which is false since it's a CR7.

All CR7s are CRJs. But not all CRJs are CR7s. CRJ = Canadair Regional Jet. 200-700-900 doesn't matter. Just like 737 700, 400, 800, 900 etc.

I never assume CRJ means only a 200.

n7371f · Mon May 09, 2016 7:43 pm

Quoting tlecam (Reply 20):

Why are people so annoyed that Delta is adding flights? ARen't more flights good for aviation enthusiasts? The disdain is kind of nuts.

It's the AS Homers. They cannot stomach another airline competing against their beloved airline.

Midwest Express could've come out here 15 years ago with all first-class cabins and service and they would've personally attacked it.

If I were them, I'd be pissed at buying Virgin because 1) the only reason they did it was to raise yields and 2) their service will suffer at least during the integration.

AirFiero · Mon May 09, 2016 7:45 pm

Didn't Delta also start SJC-SEA?

FSDan · Mon May 09, 2016 7:57 pm

Quoting tlecam (Reply 20):
Why are people so annoyed that Delta is adding flights? ARen't more flights good for aviation enthusiasts? The disdain is kind of nuts.

Because they work for competitors, or otherwise dislike Delta (or are arguing the semantics of what "shuttle" should mean). I agree that regardless of the semantics and the corporate spin in the announcement, it is a net positive for flyers and likely for Delta.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 32):
You failed to highlight the false information in the previous poster's assertion of "CRJ on LAX-SEA"

I just checked the LAX-SEA schedule for 7/28/2016 and found that there are two "Canadair Regional Jet 700"-operated flights, according to united.com. Looks like UA flies CRJs between L.A. and Seattle to me...

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 46):
I never assume CRJ means only a 200.

MSPNWA · Mon May 09, 2016 8:02 pm

Might as well call anything a Shuttle these days.

It's good for the SEA-LAX crowd, but it's frustrating having to fly out of fortress hubs to subsidize money-losing or low-margin routes like these. SEA-LAX is a good example of how more competition is needed nation-wide. Airlines are forced to raise their game, and fares are low. Consumers gets more for less.

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