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AviatorW6
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RE: 797 The Eventual Succesor To The 737?

Thu May 12, 2016 8:54 am

Quoting s75752 (Reply 42):
My guess would be something like;
797-8; Roughly the size of the 737-8. The standard size 737 replacement catering to the pre-existing sweet spot. ~3900 Mile practical range

If you have an airframe capable of what you suggested in connection with the 797-10 (range, capacity), then I think the shortest fuselage version (797-8) could very likely turn out to be ineffective in its size.
Otheriwse your suggested aircraft family seems to be in line with the educated guess future demands.

AviatorW6
 
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atypical
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RE: 797 The Eventual Succesor To The 737?

Thu May 12, 2016 6:28 pm

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 29):
Which isn't a problem as long as the boarding door(s) are arranged correctly and there is sufficient aisle width for two people to pass while boarding/deboarding.

Or room enough to add an extra seat to the row. At this point had the MD narrowbodies kept going I couldn't put it past some carrier going 3x3.
 
Shenzhen
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RE: 797 The Eventual Succesor To The 737?

Thu May 12, 2016 7:33 pm

I would like to see Boeing build a new narrowbody, but would rather see it as an "in addition to the 737 MAX family. " I think Boeing is giving up on the A319 market to better attack the A320 (new simple shrink -7Max that is about the same size as the A320 but more range/better performance). How many A321s and A319s have been sold when compared to the A320?

If they offered a new narrow body that filled the 737-8MAX and larger market, those that haven't yet ordered a narrow body replacement would have a new option, those that were thinking of Airbus for the A321, could then look at the new 7x7.

Then, Boeing would only be missing out on the A319 market, and allow their new 7x7 a decade or so to gain traction.

Cheers
 
S75752
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RE: 797 The Eventual Succesor To The 737?

Fri May 13, 2016 4:34 am

Quoting AviatorW6 (Reply 50):

If you have an airframe capable of what you suggested in connection with the 797-10 (range, capacity), then I think the shortest fuselage version (797-8) could very likely turn out to be ineffective in its size.

The reason I came up with that is due to paralleling current interest in the 737 sizes, since future interest would likely parallel that as well. The 7 obviously has little interest despite good performance, so no point in even touching that size. But the 8 seems to currently be the sweet spot of interest, and given the majority of routes they're flown on, probably not necessarily due just to performance and range. They may simply decide that a route doesn't have enough demand for a 10 or 9, or it may just be how it fits in to their fleet and route plans. I'm not sure if you'd necessarily want to make it more than a few rows longer than a 753 equivalent though.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 45):

Sounds good, but for your 797-10, I'd give it a larger wing, uprated engine, taller 757 styled gear and larger empennage, among other things, to not only give it peak performance, but maintain its economics.

This is true, just may raise concerns about how it would effect the commonality. I would think the answer would simply be to start with the 797-10, then shrink down while still maintaining those benefits anyways, to improve even further on the smaller models.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: 797 The Eventual Succesor To The 737?

Fri May 13, 2016 6:01 am

Quoting flybynight (Reply 34):
Quoting rbavfan (Reply 25):WOW. You do realize as the 737-900ER/Max & the A321 cover 95% of the market. Boeing would crazy to spend billions chasing 5% of the narrow body market. You do not need a 4000nm range aircraft to do a 1200nm flightNot a good way to think. You have to stay competitive with a good product. It seems the A320NEO is pushing the 737MAX very hard. Look at which way DL went. In fact their CEO wants Boeing to build a larger 737.

Not to mention that many of the missions the B757 could do - which the 739ER/A321 cannot - didn't exist in the minds of capacity planners and network people until the B757's capabilities were fully realized.

In other words, the aircraft's capabilities created demand for markets that hadn't existed before. It's quite likely that a MoM aircraft that could take 225-250 people up to 4500nm would create additional opportunities that weren't previously considered, and make buyers of the MoM out of customers who wouldn't have previously considered something like the 788/789 due to being too much airplane for their needs.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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seahawk
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RE: 797 The Eventual Succesor To The 737?

Fri May 13, 2016 6:19 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 54):
Not to mention that many of the missions the B757 could do - which the 739ER/A321 cannot - didn't exist in the minds of capacity planners and network people until the B757's capabilities were fully realized.

I´d say until they had some paid for 757s that were searching for a use.
 
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RE: 797 The Eventual Succesor To The 737?

Fri May 13, 2016 6:25 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 55):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 54):Not to mention that many of the missions the B757 could do - which the 739ER/A321 cannot - didn't exist in the minds of capacity planners and network people until the B757's capabilities were fully realized.

I´d say until they had some paid for 757s that were searching for a use.

The B757 was envisioned as a B727-200A replacement, and that's largely what airlines bought it to do, and used it for. It was only after the full potential of the aircraft was realized - along with ETOPS development - that it found its true calling on long thin routes.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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seahawk
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RE: 797 The Eventual Succesor To The 737?

Fri May 13, 2016 7:01 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 56):
The B757 was envisioned as a B727-200A replacement, and that's largely what airlines bought it to do, and used it for. It was only after the full potential of the aircraft was realized - along with ETOPS development - that it found its true calling on long thin routes.

And I say it was only after it was no longer competitive in its original mission, that airlines started to look for other uses for their still relative fresh but paid for 757s. ETOPS 180 was an option since the early 1990ies yet the 757 only moved to TATL after A321 and 737-9 replaced it on the shorter routes and the 757s were looking for a job.
 
brindabella
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RE: 797 The Eventual Succesor To The 737?

Fri May 13, 2016 7:28 am

Quoting s75752 (Reply 53):
I would think the answer would simply be to start with the 797-10, then shrink down while still maintaining those benefits anyways, to improve even further on the smaller models.

Exactly.

Right place to start and may well require each model to be optimised in turn b4 it sees the light of day.

Expensive?
You bet. But let's remember that both the big OEMs are forecasting enormous sales of narrow-bodies over the next 20-25 years. It is a huge pot of Gold awaiting to each if they get it right.

However I think it will be a long while indeed b4 the -8MAX is replaced, unless the LEAP fails to compete successfully with the GTF.

Which would mean that in the meantime the -10 (or whatever) should have excellent performance, but will probably not have much commonality with the -MAXs; whereas the A320neo family will be smoothly integrated.

Until A in turn feels the pressure and decides the A320neo wing is no longer competitive ...

  

cheers Bill
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strfyr51
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RE: 797 The Eventual Succesor To The 737?

Fri May 13, 2016 7:45 am

any new short to medium range Boeing that replaces the B737 series needs at the Least 210-220 pax. capacity and a 3500NMI range Say SEA-MIA (both Directions)
This range would make it truly trans con for off peak and Weekends. And give the airplane good enough performance for DEN at 90 Deg. F it doesn't need Den-Hnl though SEA-HNL might actually be possible.
[email protected] 35" pitch in coach. 1 lav in 1st Class, 1 lav mid cabin aft of 1st class and 2 lavs aft with a 737+ 8" wide cabin with Wi-Fi + Video in every seat and available roll up keyboards available for messaging and light work related items,
and this time? make the wi-fi integral to the airplane with no skin cutting and Blisters installed. "Factory installed" and conformal to reduce drag and fuel burn. four wheel landing gear bogies like the B757 and dual chambered gear to have a smoother landing touchdown.
LD3 module loading or dual LD2 loading. Have the Fuel qty sensors installed from the top of the wing so as to NOT have to defuel the airplane to work on the fuel Qty system
Have the Hydraulic reservoirs fitted in the fairing areas serviceable out side of the wheel wells, wireless ground to cockpit communications for pushback and engine starting.

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