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n562wn
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 1:08 am

This thread could use a little levity. Hope this helps TSA video

Oh and I think the acronym "Thousands Standing Around" pretty accurately describes the efficiencies of our current TSA group.    
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gdg9
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 1:36 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
3) Bright and healthy veterans would never go to the TSA. The go back to school or into good jobs.

I think about 20-25% or so of current screeners are former military.
@dfwtower
 
silentbob
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 1:38 am

Quoting holzmann (Reply 6):
Or get rid of the TSA entirely.

I think there is a role for a security focused government agency to create rules, monitor enforcement and coordinate responses to any aviation related incidents. However, that same agency should also not also be the one responsible for the actual screening and security. The actual enforcement should be done by private sector companies that are indemnified against terrorism related lawsuits, as long as they meet publicly available metrics.
 
Vctony
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 2:14 am

Quoting silentbob (Reply 52):
I think there is a role for a security focused government agency to create rules, monitor enforcement and coordinate responses to any aviation related incidents. However, that same agency should also not also be the one responsible for the actual screening and security. The actual enforcement should be done by private sector companies that are indemnified against terrorism related lawsuits, as long as they meet publicly available metrics

You're going to create more problems in the short term as somewhere between 50-75% of the current screeners will quit if the screening is privatized. It's a pretty thankless job and the government benefits are a major motivator.
 
oosnowrat
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 2:55 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 36):

I don't doubt your info, but I fail to see the need for TSA to be on duty when there are no scheduled arrivals for hours on end and no airline staff to greet an unscheduled diversion. There is no screening done until 45 minutes before departure. And there are no TSA on hand when the 2200 RON arrives.
 
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mayor
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 3:29 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 14):

A more effective method would be for the FAA to step up oversight of airlines' carry-on baggage policies and issue fines for each violation. The airlines would immediately start making sure that each bag is compliant.

And who is going to enforce THAT? The FAA can't handle what they have, now......and you want to add more to their plate? Brilliant, just brilliant
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reffado
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 3:43 am

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 45):
One month I got 70 percent of replica weapons past, another month 50 percent.

Seeing as the TSA 'fails 95% of tests conducted' (according to several news stories that went around last year), seems like the contractors were still better.

However, nitpicking apart, you're right. However, if both have the same effect (just as wasteful and useless), we should choose the more time-efficient one, don't you think?
 
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dennypayne
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 3:46 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 42):
The vast majority of the public only travels once or twice a year. In a time when ticket purchasing decisions are made based on pennies, $85 for a first time investment is a huge sticker shock. If you have a family of 4 that's even worse.

There should be a greater incentive for people to sign up for it. That's the only way lines at the security checkpoint are going to start moving faster. Until then it's just going to get slower regardless of who is doing the job.

Disagree - more of the once/twice a year flyers signing up will just slow things down even more. Right now things are much slower in pre-check than they used to be because there are more "amateurs" that get directed there from the regular lines and they still try to take off their shoes, pull everything out of their bags, etc.
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alasizon
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 3:58 am

Here in PHX, TSA after numerous complaints by AA (as WN checkpoints were always fully staffed as opposed to the AA checkpoints) has modified the pre-check system here. It used to be open from about 6AM-11AM, and 1PM-2:30PM on the B side and 5AM-2PM and 5PM-7:30PM on the A side. It used to be extremely subject to staffing issues as they would pull from B side pre-check before anything else.

Now, in order to speed up the line, Prospect now handles directing passengers to each line (instead of an actual TSA agent) and the A side pre-check is open from 5A-8P while the B side is open from 6A-3P and 5P-8P with the ID checker working both lanes (regular and pre-check) to help reduce queuing.

Some places don't need a pre line open every minute of every day but rather would benefit from some sort of combo setup (such as a single metal detector and body scanner with two x-ray machines, one for pre and one for regular). The thinking here is that you need someone to work the metal detector and body scanner anyhow and there is the quota system for "random" selection at pre-check so why not double it up?
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copter808
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 4:08 am

Quoting oosnowrat (Reply 54):
I don't doubt your info, but I fail to see the need for TSA to be on duty when there are no scheduled arrivals for hours on end and no airline staff to greet an unscheduled diversion. There is no screening done until 45 minutes before departure. And there are no TSA on hand when the 2200 RON arrives.

Most airports don't totally shut down at night. There are still employees who need to pass through security for various reasons. And how about passengers who may wind up spending the night at the airport and have to leave the secured area for some reason? We certainly don't need 10 lanes open, but there needs to be at least ONE available.
 
N1120A
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 4:10 am

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 45):
The airlines all ran security before 9/11

And? Nothing that took place on 9/11was done with things that were banned from airplanes.

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 45):
One month I got 70 percent of replica weapons past, another month 50 percent.

That is way better than the TSA does now.

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 48):
Great, let's give someone with a profit motive an incentive to cut corners and "speed-up" security procedures.

Airlines have a profit motive to assure they don't lose a plane full of passengers to a security issue.

Quoting Vctony (Reply 53):
It's a pretty thankless job and the government benefits are a major motivator.

"Thankless." They don't deserve thanks.
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dennypayne
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 4:12 am

Quoting copter808 (Reply 59):
And how about passengers who may wind up spending the night at the airport and have to leave the secured area for some reason?

They're generally SOL. Most airports I've seen have notices by the exit doors that the security lines close at X time and you won't be able to get back in until the next morning. Even DFW does this and it's a major hub.
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MountainFlyer
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 5:12 am

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Reply 39):
how in the world are airlines suppose to do this? the days of checking in at the counter are over with for the majority of business travelers, the first point of contact is when they show up at the gate.

Easy - do like Spirit does and charge a very high gate-check fee. That would discourage passengers from trying to bring oversized and too many items on board.
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 5:41 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
You must not remember the old days, when a whole family could go through the checkpoint to see their relative off or av geeks could just spend the day in the terminal.

Sure, make us all nostalgic. lol I absolutely miss those days. Ironically, back then the family would meet you at the gate and it would be emotional and drawn out with all the kids there, etc. Now, it's pull up to the curb, honk, and get in - oh, and maybe a quick kiss/hug if it's been a while.  
Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
No F'ing way. It is bad enough to have any government agency doing the warrantless searches.

Wondering what the best solution is then?

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 44):

Bag fees are also not taxed by the federal government. That is the biggest incentive of all for airlines to keep increasing them.

They'd just raise them more to compensate I'm assuming.

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DXTraveler
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 7:14 am

Sure.....airlines will drop bag fees just as soon as the government drops taxes on air travel.
 
rta
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 8:23 am

I'm going to go against the grain and say that all these problems are not completely the TSA's fault. There are significant understaffing issues at many airports (though I will add that they're planning to hire more people this summer), but I think another large part of the problem comes from the actual set up. A lot of airports just don't have the physical space to have an efficient system.

How often are TSA check points scaled? We hear about adding new runways, using larger planes to increase capacity, building more gates, etc ... but not much about increasing security checkpoints.

And IMO, a lot of space is wasted for check in counters at many airports. Considering that many people now use online checkin/mobile boarding passes/bag drop/kiosks, it might be time to reevaluate how many checkin counters are actually needed.

Out of all the airports I've flown through, I personally like ATL's system the best, though I've seen it get pretty backed up as well.
 
jetsetterusa
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 11:57 am

What about this! if you fly more than 5 times a year GIVE the TSA Precheck to everyone! thats going to help!
Crazy Day Tripper
 
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DL747400
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 1:04 pm

Quoting StrandedAtMKG (Reply 2):
The airlines started the baggage fees back in 2008 to increase revenue, and it was a believable line back then when they were bankrupt. Now that they're making money hand-over-fist again it doesn't hold any water, and it makes air travel significantly less pleasant for all involved.

Many would disagree. If bag fees and other add-ons allow the big airlines with global reach to remain slightly profitable even during economic downturns, then I say bring it on. A stable and profitable airline industry is needed in order to enable airlines to invest in new aircraft, hard and soft product, keep debt under control and pay salaries and benefits. And also remember that once the tax credits for past losses are used up, these same companies will once again be paying corporate income taxes on those profits.

Quoting modernart (Reply 3):
Require that the TSA open all lanes at check points from 5 a.m. - 9 a.m. and 3 p.m. - 7 pm. at least in the eastern 2/3 of the country.

That would be a great place to start. More staffing to efficiently handle increased passenger volumes during peak hours.

Quoting gr8slvrflt (Reply 12):
Security personnel should enforce current size, weight and quantity restrictions before people get in line for the checkpoint. Result would be less bags to screen.

The TSA's job is not to enforce airline carry-on baggage size and weight and quantity restrictions. Not only do said policies vary from one carrier to another, but there are also different baggage allowances by loyalty status and cabin. Any guess how many MORE TSA staff would be required to support this? Sorry, count me out on this one......I want fewer TSA agents, not more. Let the TSA rely upon increased use of advanced technology and less upon the use of disengaged government employees.
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mozart
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 1:18 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
I believe high school/GED is a requirement.

That makes me think not very highly about the countr'y education system if these people are actually given a high school degree.

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 21):
Several of the European countries have something like that.

As far as I know the European countries just put non-government employees into government uniforms, but no agents are actually members of the public security forces.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 35):
No, no, no. The only solution is a return to sanity, whereby people check their bags in and bring with them in the cabin only their essentials in a smaller bag, one that can fit under the chair in front of you if needs be. Think laptop bags, small duffels or rucksacks only, essentially. The rest you check, but perhaps not for free - one could wish for the revenue to be directed towards improving staffing and infrastructure on the ground, ensuring swift and correct handling at all times. I know, wishful thinking.

Wishful thinking, I hope so! I travel with a little wheel suitcase that has the permitted size and a computer bag, and I never check in. If I had to that would a humongous waste of time. Depending on years I fly around 250 flights a year (give or take 20). If I had to add 10 minutes waiting time to check in plus 20 minutes to wait for the luggage to be delivered plus the time buffer I'd need to build in to be at the counter at check-in deadline time (say another 10 minutes) I would lose the equivalent of 7 full days just dealing with checking luggage. Sanity?

I am all for restricting the number of items that can be brought on, but your suggestion is far too drastic.

But I like the idea of having passengers pay for hand luggage. It is a major benefit to avoid the hassle of having to check-in, so why not make people for it, maybe with the exception of First/Business class and top tier status card holders?

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 51):
I think about 20-25% or so of current screeners are former military.


If they were cooking meals on an aircraft carrier or painting trucks, fine. But please reassure us by telling us that those people were never in contact with anything that could be lethal.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 1:20 pm

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 67):
That would be a great place to start. More staffing to efficiently handle increased passenger volumes during peak hours.

Like many of TSA's problems, this one is a local management issue. There are some airports, including my home airport, where TSA does a pretty good job dealing with volume bumps that are predicted ahead of time. Others don't do so well.

Quoting rta (Reply 65):
I personally like ATL's system the best, though I've seen it get pretty backed up as well.

ATL is a mess right now because the South Checkpoint is closed for installation of some sort of automated bin return system--a real good use of money.

I have found that ATL domestic is the only terminal where a wait is virtually guaranteed regardless of Precheck status or class of service.
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exunited
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 1:20 pm

Perhaps the long lines are TSA's method of creating a problem so they can extract even more money from Congress for them to waste. There are already plenty of them standing around, there must be another reason for the ever growing lines when there seems to be plenty of closed lines and workers standing around complaining how busy they are.
 
ordbosewr
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 1:24 pm

I feel for the TSA, because they have been given a mandate and not given the tools (ie funding) to execute. Who's fault is that? the airlines? Nope, the politicians. So.. Any politician telling a private company what they should do is just flat out funny.
 
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tlecam
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 1:40 pm

Security is crucially important and the TSA security strategy and how it is funded/managed by congress is ridiculous. I think that airport security should be staffed by trained law enforcement officers, as an extension of US Customs and Border protection. With that, the entire security strategy and approach should be revamped - security is a lot more than scanning bags and putting people through body scanners and metal detectors, and prohibiting liquids with a volume of more than 3.4oz. WHat happens today is bordering on theatrics.

The airlines were horrible at running security - sure they don't want delays. They don't want additional costs either, so the solution was just to do the bare minimum at the lowest possible cost. Also, securing borders is not a core competency of an airline.

I think that privatization could work, but the contract with the firm will need to be very carefully done to incent the right behaviors. Contracts that encourage private firms to start strong and then continually look for cheaper ways to provide that same service typically erode the service (which is security in this case!) over time. Also, the measurement of results can be difficult - because the service is to prevent something. On the surface, it seems like you reward the company for keeping results under certain metrics, but in practice, this encourages a lot of creative thinking about how incidents are classified and tracked. Like I said, privatization could work, but some very sharp people will need to advocate for the citizens and tax payers on behalf of the government to make sure that we're secure and also that we don't get screwed.

I will spare you all my thoughts about our distinguished public servants in congress in DC. Big grin

[Edited 2016-05-12 06:41:46]
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bkflyguy
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 1:49 pm

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 15):

Then there is the all too real joke of complaining that government doesn't work and then refusing to fund it at levels needed to ensure that it does work. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Considering that the TSA budget is set by a Congress that only works 100 days a year (and spends half of its day on the phone dialing for dollars) and can't get even basic budget bills -- let alone the actual appropriation bills -- passed on time, the TSA is screwed. It is much easier for Senators to grandstand on an issue than actually do their job.

Which is not to say that TSA management is completely blameless. They assumed that 25 million people would sign up for pre-check when only 8 million actually have. They made staffing decisions based on this.

What they should do in the interim is let airline/airport employees do as much of the work as possible - checking IDs, directing traffic, and collecting the plastic bins come to mind and then use the TSA staffers formerly doing those jobs to open more screening lanes.
 
G-CIVP
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 2:05 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 19):
I like how they have it at AMS. After you go through exit control, you enter the duty free area. And then you can go to your gate and they have a check point at every gate

I think the airport management at AMS are going to revert back to a central security check point rather than gate based.
 
ckfred
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 2:17 pm

Is the TSA understaffed? Of course it is. Are there TSA employees who are less than efficient? Without a doubt. But, if more bags were checked, that would alleviate some of the delays.

But, I have a couple of good reasons why more bags should be checked. First, weight and balance. Bags that are checked are weighed. So, Dispatch knows the amount of weight that is in the cargo hold (baggage, cargo, and mail). On the other hand, an airline is merely using estimates as to the weight of each passenger and his carry-on bags. For every person who checks a bag and has only a purse or briefcase with a tablet, there is a passenger with a heavy briefcase with a laptop and a rollerboard that could weigh 40 pounds.

We know that the US Express crash at CLT in 2003 was caused, in part, by the aircraft being above MTOW. That led to the FAA increasing the weights for passengers and carry-on bags, and the development of "winter weights", since passengers tend to have more heavier clothing in the winter (hats, coats, gloves, sweaters, and attire using heavier materials).

Weight and balance because of carry-on bags versus checked bags isn't a problem for widebodies or even narrowbodies, but we know that it's an issue for some RJs and turboprops. When my wife was flying frequently between ORD and PIT on Eagle (Embrear 135/140/145), it was quite common for checked bags to get bumped because of weight, especially if the weather at ORD required a larger fuel reserve. Even passengers got bumped every now and then. When you consider the number of gate checked bags that went into the hold, it does cause a person to wonder about the weight of the aircraft.

Second is security. My understanding is that the screening for checked baggage is more thorough than the screening for carry-on bags. The screening machines in baggage rooms use CT scanning technology, while the screening machines at checkpoints are advanced x-ray machines.

Of course, one of my pet peeves are the clueless people who don't understand how airport security works. I've seen people fumbling through carry-ons for ID at the entrance to security, holding up others trying to get into the line. On my last trip, I was behind two women who were wearing knee-high boots. Despite the fact that the boots zipped, they still had trouble taking off their boots. Oh, and did I mention that one of them went into the body scanner with her boarding pass and tissues in her pants pockets? That just added to the time for her and everyone behind her to clear security.

Several years ago, I was behind a man who had a belt covered in metal studs, as well as his wallet on a chain. Needless to say, it took him several minutes to remove his belt and detach the chain from a belt loop.
 
divemaster08
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 3:29 pm

From my view, its 3 factors why TSA is a hold up,

1) multiple check points in one security line. To enter the security Q, show your ticket+passport, get half way down, check the ticket again, then finally before you can actually be screened, another checkpoint! This is just a waste of time and hold up! If you just got checked before you enter the security line it could help smooth it better! Even with all these checkpoints, people have still gotten through that are not suppose to (like kids or people in the wrong place- not actual terrorism folk either!)

2) Silly restrictions. everything has to be removed..... shoes, belts, clothing, laptops and stuff. This means more time required to let people undress, take up more boxes (and therefore space) and then go through and make sure you remember all the stuff again after the screening! Many countries dont enforce these silly rules, and things work better, and again, they dont appear to be unsafe!

3) terminal space. Airports have had to be re-designed to fit in all these silly long weird checkpoints which causes overflow /spill into areas were there wasn't much of a problem. With terminal space already at a premium, I dont think Airport has, or will ever be fully able to operate what TSA really want to move people at the speed they want to hold people up to!
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mayor
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 3:41 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 75):
But, I have a couple of good reasons why more bags should be checked. First, weight and balance. Bags that are checked are weighed. So, Dispatch knows the amount of weight that is in the cargo hold (baggage, cargo, and mail). On the other hand, an airline is merely using estimates as to the weight of each passenger and his carry-on bags. For every person who checks a bag and has only a purse or briefcase with a tablet, there is a passenger with a heavy briefcase with a laptop and a rollerboard that could weigh 40 pounds.

Have you ever done weight and balance? When it was manual, it was based on an average bag weight. Now, being computerized, I'm sure that number is already in the program, unless the bags might be for like a sports team or military group where the bags might be heavier. At least in the states, the only reason the bags are weighed is to see if the pax have exceeded the limit.

Quoting slider (Reply 76):
Leave the airlines the hell alone already. My lack of surprise at this pronouncement is only matches by my actual surprise that it wasn't our old friend Chucky Schumer.

Markey has had it in for the airlines at least since 9-11 and maybe before that. He was doing his damnednest to shut down airline cargo operations but failed at that, but managed to get some of his restrictions applied.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
OB1504
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 4:14 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 42):
Off peak yes, but that's understandable. I've never seen a un-staffed checkpoint during peak times, ever.

You are cordially invited to visit the North Terminal at MIA, where Checkpoint 1 closes at 4 PM and Checkpoint 4 hasn't been used in nearly a year due to insufficient staffing. All passengers without priority or Pre✓ are funneled through Checkpoint 3. Over 130 AA flights depart between 5 PM and 11 PM and over 8,000 passengers will be processed through just two checkpoints.

Quoting mayor (Reply 55):
And who is going to enforce THAT? The FAA can't handle what they have, now......and you want to add more to their plate? Brilliant, just brilliant

An FAA fine can be $25,000 per infraction. Catch three oversize carry-ons in a day and the inspector has made back his annual salary.

[Edited 2016-05-12 09:15:25]
 
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tlecam
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 4:24 pm

My    ...

The process isn't really slowed by the bags directly. The process is slowed by people who don't empty their pockets for the body scanners or try to go through metal detectors wearing a full metal jacket.

The process is slowed indirectly by bags - when I look at TSA in BOS or LGA, the majority of the workers are not on the conveyor belt screens or manning the body scanners / metal detectors or checking boarding passes / ID. They're behind the checkpoint, doing carry on bag inspections for those full sized toiletries that someone tried to carry on or the pocket knife that someone packed. There will always need to be some folks back there for secondary searches etc...

I do think that there is some logic in finding a way to reduce the amount of carry on bags to free up staffing so that more checkpoints and gates can be opened. How to do that well, who knows.
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 4:38 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
With TSA or not there is no real alternative that doesn't involve rebuilting terminals and hiring uge numbers of personnel. The security checkpoint is by design a bottleneck and no airport terminal has been built in this country with enough security checkpoints to account for peak time volumes. For that reason alone I chose to travel off peak whenever possible.

Airport designs (going back years ago) didn't take into account for the bottlenecks and long lines. Most airports weren't designed for all of this security and the checkpoints. 9/11 changed everything........ And the removal of clothes (belts and shoes) doesn't help things either. People also forget that the "shoe bomber" did not originate here in the US. It happened on a flight from AMS to here. But now we have to remove shoes, which makes no sense. Plus, everybody is not "travel savvy" which means it takes longer in line. I really don't see a solution to this whether it is TSA or a private firm doing the checking. IMHO, only developing new non intrusive technology that doesn't pose a heath risk, (like Chertoff''s "nude picture" machine) if and when developed can maybe solve the problem.

Bag fees are a neccessary need in this new era. It is profitable, and it is not going away.

CONgress (I'll say that phrase in jest) should look at themselves first, before complaining. They make the mandates, but without the proper funding.
People forget that a while back, we had a budget sequester in which every Federal agency was lacking funds to operate at optimum levels. That included the DHS (Customs & TSA). They could not get their stuff together and every agency was affected. That's their fault since they appropriate the money in the first place. Don't bitch, if you won't solve the problem by spending some money to improve things. The airlines and some airports have spent money themselves, but the Government has to do their part by adding more Customs agents, and TSA.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
N1120A
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 4:41 pm

Quoting ordbosewr (Reply 71):

I feel for the TSA, because they have been given a mandate and not given the tools (ie funding) to execute.

  

The TSA has PLENTY of funding and staffing. They have created their own problems by insisting on incredible slow naked machines being primary, the now 10 year old liquids restrictions that are well past usefulness and not engaging enough staff in active having lanes open, but overstaffing the lanes that are open.

Quoting tlecam (Reply 72):
I think that airport security should be staffed by trained law enforcement officers, as an extension of US Customs and Border protection.

That would be absolutely insane, not to mention illegal. A police search is very, very different from a limited ADMINISTRATIVE search for WEI. The police have zero business searching anything without a warrant.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
32andBelow
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 4:46 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 82):
The TSA has PLENTY of funding and staffing. They have created their own problems by insisting on incredible slow naked machines being primary, the now 10 year old liquids restrictions that are well past usefulness and not engaging enough staff in active having lanes open, but overstaffing the lanes that are open.

This. I have so many times seen 2 lanes open with crews and additional people just milling around looking at thing.

Quoting divemaster08 (Reply 77):
1) multiple check points in one security line. To enter the security Q, show your ticket+passport, get half way down, check the ticket again, then finally before you can actually be screened, another checkpoint! This is just a waste of time and hold up! If you just got checked before you enter the security line it could help smooth it better! Even with all these checkpoints, people have still gotten through that are not suppose to (like kids or people in the wrong place- not actual terrorism folk either!)

I have never understood this. It only happens at bigger airports. At small to medium airports they only check once by the TSA agents. At large airports they have 3rd party security checking and I just don't understand it.
 
dmg626
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 4:51 pm

The TSA needs to re allocate their manpower and get their bloated hierarchy back on the line. Get the ramp ID checkers back on line and the undercover and profilers also.
 
copter808
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 5:17 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 82):
That would be absolutely insane, not to mention illegal. A police search is very, very different from a limited ADMINISTRATIVE search for WEI. The police have zero business searching anything without a warrant.

Why should search legality be different just because they are sworn officers? TSA folks are government employees acting on behalf of the Government. Both searches should be the same.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 5:31 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 82):
That would be absolutely insane, not to mention illegal. A police search is very, very different from a limited ADMINISTRATIVE search for WEI. The police have zero business searching anything without a warrant.

I'll readily agree that there are problems with the approach, but there's no legal reason that police cannot perform administrative searches without a warrant in one role and more invasive searches with a warrant (or other legitimate reason) in another.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
AAIL86
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 5:45 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 60):
And? Nothing that took place on 9/11was done with things that were banned from airplanes.

True enough. But even if they had, the staff, equipment, training, and procedures in place back then would not have prevented it had they been.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 60):
That is way better than the TSA does now.

We are not using scientific analysis here, just gut guesstimations. None of statistics we've been throwing around here are usful enough to draw a conclusion either way.

Quoting reffado (Reply 56):
Seeing as the TSA 'fails 95% of tests conducted' (according to several news stories that went around last year), seems like the contractors were still better.

However, nitpicking apart, you're right. However, if both have the same effect (just as wasteful and useless), we should choose the more time-efficient one, don't you think?

The quality level of TSA staff today is still light years ahead of who the airlines employed before 9/11. Some of those guys would have a hard time getting a job as a gas station attendant. Yes - some TSA staff can be annoying at times. Like I said, I travel 16-18 times per year, I get it. But they are still head and shoulders above what came before.

You might also make the argument that private contract security would be different now, which is fair enough. But those guys will have the same problems with finding staff that the TSA does, and they would be run as a profit center. Private companies don't always provide superior public benefits - see Comcast or AT&T.
" Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness ... Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. ” - Mark Twain, 1869
 
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tlecam
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 5:56 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 81):
That would be absolutely insane, not to mention illegal. A police search is very, very different from a limited ADMINISTRATIVE search for WEI. The police have zero business searching anything without a warrant.

Where did you get a police search out of my post?

I did not suggest that anywhere. What I suggested was that professionals who are trained in security should be in charge of securing our airports, in the same way that they're in charge of securing borders between the US and Canada.

I also stated that security is more than scanning bags & people and putting people through metal detectors.

If we are really serious about security, we should get professionals to do the work.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
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atypical
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 6:43 pm

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 45):
The airlines all ran security before 9/11

Source? That isn't what I recall going through a multitude of small and medium size airports.
 
rwsea
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 6:58 pm

Quoting atypical (Reply 88):
Source? That isn't what I recall going through a multitude of small and medium size airports.

Not the airlines per se, but private contractors.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7922
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 7:01 pm

Here are 2 of my suggestions to make the lines go quicker.

Number 1) If one is going through the body scanner tilt-a-whirl, why am I taking off my shoes and belt? Its not a metal detector, its a scanner - if it see's something suspicious then it see's something suspicious shows them exactly where that suspicious item is on my body.

Number 2) Coin thing a ma bobbies for Unicef and other charitable donations. Place these things BEFORE security, in the line, not AFTER security. Empty pockets equals quicker lines - its not rocket science.

While not part of the TSA system, here's a bonus for security in YVR to make the lines move quicker ...

Why are you checking boarding passes 5 times through security? You are the only airport I've ever been to that does this. Once when you enter the area, second when they tell you which line to go into, third just before you go through the beeper, fourth as soon as you get out of the beeper and fifth, when you put your shoes on. Un-freaking-believable.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
oosnowrat
Posts: 238
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 7:17 pm

Quoting atypical (Reply 88):

The airlines were responsible for screening. Generally they hired private contractors to do the screening. In smaller airports the airline staff did the screening. I can remember in SUN OO staff screened the QX flights and QX screened the OO flights.
 
AAIL86
Posts: 486
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:00 am

RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 7:19 pm

Quoting atypical (Reply 88):

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 45):
The airlines all ran security before 9/11

Source? That isn't what I recall going through a multitude of small and medium size airports.

Try this - among a multiple of places.
"Prior to September 11, 2001, airport screening was provided in the U.S. by private companies contracted by the airline or airport. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security_repercussions_due_to_the_September_11_attacks

[Edited 2016-05-12 12:21:04]
" Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness ... Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. ” - Mark Twain, 1869
 
IAHWorldflyer
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 7:25 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 90):
Number 1) If one is going through the body scanner tilt-a-whirl, why am I taking off my shoes and belt? Its not a metal detector, its a scanner - if it see's something suspicious then it see's something suspicious shows them exactly where that suspicious item is on my body.

Because the dirty little secret is these scanners cannot see all the way down to the heels of your shoes. They also cannot very well detect items that are thin and parallel to the machine's "line of sight". If you want to hide something, put a thin object in your sock on the inside of your leg.

Has anyone really seen the liquids ban enforced in years? I carry larger toiletries and have not gotten them out of my luggage in 5+ years. Have never been stopped or flagged, and I fly about 20 times per year.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 7:54 pm

Quoting IAHWorldFlyer (Reply 93):
Has anyone really seen the liquids ban enforced in years? I carry larger toiletries and have not gotten them out of my luggage in 5+ years. Have never been stopped or flagged, and I fly about 20 times per year.

When we were on vacation a couple of months ago, a screener at JAX pulled a couple of ~120 mL applesauce pouches from our bag but let us keep them, I think because they were sealed and we had our kids with us.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
alasizon
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 8:09 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 90):
Number 2) Coin thing a ma bobbies for Unicef and other charitable donations. Place these things BEFORE security, in the line, not AFTER security. Empty pockets equals quicker lines - its not rocket science.

PHX has set up coin boxes (more like columns) about ten feet in front of each of the checkpoints that collect change and cash to benefit USO Arizona.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
ckfred
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 8:27 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 77):
Have you ever done weight and balance? When it was manual, it was based on an average bag weight. Now, being computerized, I'm sure that number is already in the program, unless the bags might be for like a sports team or military group where the bags might be heavier. At least in the states, the only reason the bags are weighed is to see if the pax have exceeded the limit

But with checked bags, you know how many bags are in the hold, and you probably and a good idea how much weight is in the hold, as well as having it loaded to have correct balance.

I would also assume that airlines may vary the averages, depending on the route. For a route like ORD-LGA, the checked bags will probably be mostly standard-size rollerboards that would fit in the overhead. On ORD-LHR, chances are that the bags will be larger and heavier. Having flown that route last summer, I was surprised how few small bags there were.

As I said, weight and balance isn't an issue with an A330 or a 738, but it is with the smaller Embrears. My wife has been on flights where, before push back, the captain asked for some people to move to the front of the cabin, because the balance was off.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 8:46 pm

Quoting mozart (Reply 68):

That makes me think not very highly about the countr'y education system if these people are actually given a high school degree.

Don't think a high school or GED is worth anything. We have to test all applicants for literacy and 5th grade math. About 2/3rds of non-college educated applicants fail. College educated or those from a decent junior high school find the test a 5 minute joke. I scored 100% in under 2 minutes.

It is written as a basic technical test for an engineering company, but two of the word problems came out of my 4th grade math test! I'm serious!

LA Unified schools are a scary baby-sitting service.

Lightsaber
7 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
irish
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:15 pm

RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 8:55 pm

MDW gets horrible at peak times and that airport is at least 90% Southwest.
 
coairman
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:31 am

RE: Senators: Drop Bag Fees To Shorten TSA Lines

Thu May 12, 2016 9:12 pm

Here is how to solve the problem:

- The FAA imposes a federal carry on bag size restriction that applies to ALL airlines.

-The TSA will enforce the FAA carry on bag size restriction at the check point by utilizing a bag size template at the front of the X-ray machine that restricts bags out of compliance.

Or as an alternate or additional measure:
-Airlines may be forced to waive checked baggage fees at the ticket counter and allow one free checked bag. Some airlines waive the baggage fees at the gate anyways to alleviate slow boarding issues.
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