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LAXintl
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ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Thu May 12, 2016 3:15 pm

Effective October 30th.

Press release (pdf)
ANA Launches Routes to Tokyo’s Haneda Airport from New York and Chicago
http://www.ana.co.jp/eng/aboutana/press/2016/pdf/160512.pdf

=

No surprise. Exact timings are pending government slot award.

Big version: Width: 642 Height: 475 File size: 92kb


[Edited 2016-05-12 08:26:27]
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a380787
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Thu May 12, 2016 3:20 pm

If I'm reading the PR correctly, ANA intends to keep the existing LAX+HNL with no change.

Assuming UA manages to keep SFO but fail to win EWR, the combined UA NH AC service between HND and North America will look like this

HND - 7 cities total, 5 hubs (LAX SFO ORD YVR YYZ) and 2 key O&D (HNL JFK)
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Thu May 12, 2016 3:30 pm

Makes sense. Ive been surprised ORD-HND has gone so long without service given the very large local market.
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jfklganyc
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Thu May 12, 2016 4:31 pm

When does JAL/AA announce JFK HND?
 
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LAXintl
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Thu May 12, 2016 4:46 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 3):
When does JAL/AA announce JFK HND?

Unlikely for JAL. They received no additional HND slots. So unless they drop HNL or SFO, no chance of JFK.

And for AA we know they seek to retain their LAX flight and add a new DFW one.
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commavia
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Thu May 12, 2016 4:51 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
Unlikely for JAL. They received no additional HND slots. So unless they drop HNL or SFO, no chance of JFK.

I don't agree it's "unlikely." I think it is entirely possible if not probably that JAL may alter its present HND-U.S. network in the context of the new HND operating schedule/conditions, and in particular given what ends up happening with AA's HND access.
 
a380787
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Thu May 12, 2016 5:03 pm

I see a 20% chance JL would opt for SFO+JFK by dropping HNL.
 
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mercure1
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Thu May 12, 2016 6:18 pm

Would JAL really drop established SFO or HNL in favor of JFK?

As I recall JL made comments at the time they were shifting SFO to HND to better compete versus UA as NRT-SFO was tough route. Remember DL also dropped SFO-NRT so it seems UA is very strong in this segment and HND is what gave JL a boost.

If they drop HNL from HND, then both opponents NH and HA would have preferable flight to Hawaii from HND while JAL has none.
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a380787
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Thu May 12, 2016 6:33 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 7):
Would JAL really drop established SFO or HNL in favor of JFK?
Quoting mercure1 (Reply 7):

If they drop HNL from HND, then both opponents NH and HA would have preferable flight to Hawaii from HND while JAL has none.

It's not about "established" or "new" ... JAL+AA has to decide for themselves after LAX+DFW, which AA likely will win, what are the next 2 best markets.

Their logical choices are HNL SFO ORD JFK. Given only 2 slots for JAL, something must give. Your question is whether HNL > JFK or the other way around.

And given that DL didn't apply for JFK at all, if JAL stays at SFO+HNL, then ANA+UA will have an absolute monopoly on NYC-HND.
 
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United787
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Thu May 12, 2016 6:38 pm

Great news for ANA and ORD! Congrats to all!
 
jfk777
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Thu May 12, 2016 6:48 pm

JAL & AA must do something on the JFK to Haneda market, maybe an AA 77W or 787-9 is the answer ? Its never made sense to me how after flying JFK to NRT and HND AA has given up on JFK to Tokyo. I know the HND slots were a nightmare from JFK but NRT was possible under the traditional schedule.
 
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kngkyle
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Thu May 12, 2016 7:31 pm

I can't imagine this will be an additional flight to ORD, rather just switching one of their two current NRT flights. The city pair already has 5x daily as it is.
 
jcwr56
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Thu May 12, 2016 8:00 pm

Quoting kngkyle (Reply 11):
I can't imagine this will be an additional flight to ORD, rather just switching one of their two current NRT flights. The city pair already has 5x daily as it is.

It will be a shift from one to another. The question we're asking is, 77W or 787.
 
a380787
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Thu May 12, 2016 8:20 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 12):
It will be a shift from one to another. The question we're asking is, 77W or 787.

They have multiple versions of 77W - I'm guessing they'd place the 52J version to NRT and 77J version of HND.
 
ktachiya
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Thu May 12, 2016 9:02 pm

Quoting kngkyle (Reply 11):
I can't imagine this will be an additional flight to ORD, rather just switching one of their two current NRT flights. The city pair already has 5x daily as it is.

At the moment, I think they have x2 flights to JFK and ORD out of NRT. I think they were always looking at shifting this to HND. Now, would the rwys be enough to fly to JFK with a full load, but will it be restricted in one way or another?
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a380787
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Thu May 12, 2016 9:09 pm

Quoting ktachiya (Reply 14):

At the moment, I think they have x2 flights to JFK and ORD out of NRT. I think they were always looking at shifting this to HND. Now, would the rwys be enough to fly to JFK with a full load, but will it be restricted in one way or another?

16/34 pair at HND should be mostly fine, but obviously if they're stuck at 4/22 or 5/23 that's slightly challenging.

ANA has the advantage of only 212 seats on their 4-class high-J config, so there's a bit of leeway in terms of under-belly payload at any condition.
 
Qantas744er
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Fri May 13, 2016 11:50 am

Quoting ktachiya (Reply 14):
At the moment, I think they have x2 flights to JFK and ORD out of NRT. I think they were always looking at shifting this to HND. Now, would the rwys be enough to fly to JFK with a full load, but will it be restricted in one way or another?
Quoting a380787 (Reply 15):
16/34 pair at HND should be mostly fine, but obviously if they're stuck at 4/22 or 5/23 that's slightly challenging.

ANA has the advantage of only 212 seats on their 4-class high-J config, so there's a bit of leeway in terms of under-belly payload at any condition.

ANA's B77W's are 348,183kgs MTOW aircraft. Departing from the longer 16L/34R the RTOW's will be:

(OAT) 38 ºC : 325.5t
(OAT) 34 ºC : 333.3t
(OAT) 30 ºC : 339.7t
(OAT) 26 ºC : 341.8t
(OAT) 22 ºC : 343.8t
(OAT) 18ºC : 345.0t
(OAT) 14 ºC : 348.2t

Tokyo average monthly highs are as follow: June 24 ºC , July 28 ºC, August 29 ºC and September 26 ºC.

Considering the relatively short HND-JFK sector, they will have no issues carrying up to MZFW during most months of the year. Which I assume is a rare occasion considering the aforementioned extremely low density of the 212 seat B77W's.

[Edited 2016-05-13 05:06:17]
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VCEflyboy
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Fri May 13, 2016 2:43 pm

Why ANA ads are always so tacky???
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jfklganyc
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Fri May 13, 2016 2:47 pm

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 16):
Considering the relatively short HND-JFK sector

Side note...what is your definition of short?
 
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psa1011
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Fri May 13, 2016 3:03 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 17):

Yeah - I've tried using their website, it's way too much text and 90's graphics.
 
jacobin777
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Fri May 13, 2016 3:41 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 2):
Makes sense. Ive been surprised ORD-HND has gone so long without service given the very large local market.

While I knew there was some market between Chicago and Japan/Tokyo, I didn't know it was that large. I grew up with a number of Koreans and very few Japanese.
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a380787
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RE: ANA Announces Haneda-JFK And ORD

Fri May 13, 2016 3:47 pm

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 20):

While I knew there was some market between Chicago and Japan/Tokyo, I didn't know it was that large. I grew up with a number of Koreans and very few Japanese.

Being the 3rd largest metro in the US and a major JV trunk route (ORD-TYO) for 2 alliances, it makes sense to have some sort of ORD-HND service.

The importance of ORD-TYO, esp to UA+NH, is nearly at the same level as DTW-AMS for DL+KL.

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