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LAX772LR
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 8:44 am

Interesting. I'm still somewhat puzzled why they don't put an A330 or something on the earlier run (or have DL do it with a 767/A330), to make it yearround.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
factsonly
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 9:07 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 50):
Interesting. I'm still somewhat puzzled why they don't put an A330 or something on the earlier run (or have DL do it with a 767/A330), to make it yearround.

KL602 is the year-round flight and tends to have the larger equipment, it is the later KL604 that is the summer seasonal frequency.

If DL was to come onto the LAX-AMS route, it is likely DL/KL would introduce a 3rd even later departure out of both LAX and AMS with a later arrival into both stations.

For example:

- LAX 9.55pm - AMS 5.10pm
- AMS 5.40pm - LAX 7.40pm

This frequency would probably be flown by KL as DL - for pure scheduling reasons - prefers earlier departures out of AMS as this better fits their TATL pattern. KL could hand any of its current 2x frequencies to DL.
 
N867DA
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 12:20 pm

Will RDU become a reliever hub for DL? As ATL gets packed, Delta may look into selling connections through Raleigh at some point. With service to several North American cities and CDG, RDU may be more of a DL hub than CVG.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
BravoOne
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 1:18 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 48):
Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 48):
DL and sUA birds are at 43,490L
sCo birds at 42,680L

May I ask where you see that published?
 
davescj
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 1:28 pm

Quoting N867DA (Reply 52):
Will RDU become a reliever hub for DL? As ATL gets packed, Delta may look into selling connections through Raleigh at some point. With service to several North American cities and CDG, RDU may be more of a DL hub than CVG.

Personally, I do not see this happening. CVG and MEM were receivers for ATL and DTW respectively. RDU has the research triangle, so lots of good contracts are there to support various routes. But if DL wanted to start to 'rebuild' a reliever hub, I think they would go back to CVG or MEM (do to location, existing facilities, etc). But that's just me.

I think RDU is an important contract relationship for DL and I applaud them for the move.

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 2:00 pm

Quoting N867DA (Reply 52):
Will RDU become a reliever hub for DL? As ATL gets packed, Delta may look into selling connections through Raleigh at some point. With service to several North American cities and CDG, RDU may be more of a DL hub than CVG.

Why does DL need a reliever hub for ATL?

DL will run as many pax through ATL as they can, and then they'll just expand the airport again.
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 2:36 pm

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 55):
DL will run as many pax through ATL as they can, and then they'll just expand the airport again.

They already have a 20-year plan to do this, and DL has the Atlanta airport authority in its back pocket (for obvious reasons, of course). I'm not sure how quickly all of the construction will take place, but ATL is not going to run out of room for DL for quite some time.
 
davescj
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 3:02 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 56):
but ATL is not going to run out of room for DL for quite some time.

ATL can certainly grow in construction (and to be fair, F is a nice terminal). But my question would be how long before the airspace is saturated? I believe ATL currently had 5 runways, but a sixth is planned.

But even so - how close is ATL to saturation? You can only get so many flights up and down in an hour.

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 3:14 pm

Quoting davescj (Reply 57):
But even so - how close is ATL to saturation? You can only get so many flights up and down in an hour.

Remember, though, that DL will continue to remove 50-seaters from the fleet and upgauge on many flights, resulting in fewer aircraft.
 
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N717TW
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 3:52 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 15):
TXL-EWR, once a serial diverter, is now a 767.

I seem to remember that TXL has some unique field issues that exacerbate the diversion issue. It has a nearly 10,000ft runway, so Im exactly sure what the limitation was. I know PA had some field issues and that was a reason why they didn't have nonstops to the US despite having a domestic (IGS) hub at TXL.
 
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deltadawg
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 3:55 pm

Quoting N867DA (Reply 52):
Will RDU become a reliever hub for DL? As ATL gets packed, Delta may look into selling connections through Raleigh at some point. With service to several North American cities and CDG, RDU may be more of a DL hub than CVG.

I would not expect this at all. However, RDU may serve as a nice focus city in the future perhaps. At one time the second Midway was hubbed there and they certainly have a nice airport. With the pharmaceutical and life sciences industry in the Research Triangle there is plenty of industry to support a focus city. Perhaps once the new CS100's start coming on board or maybe even with the 717's they could add some routes like RDU-DFW/MDW/CMH/LGA/MIA/BOS/YYZ/CUN. Would be a good mix of business and leisure routes.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
panamair
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 4:02 pm

Quoting N717TW (Reply 59):
I know PA had some field issues and that was a reason why they didn't have nonstops to the US

PA did have a nonstop TXL-JFK in the late '80s/early '90s a few times a week using the A310.
 
Lexy
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 4:05 pm

I don't get what's so special about RDU when compared to peer cities, but whatever. I'd hate for anyone there to fly/drive to a hub like the rest of America.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
reltney
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 4:17 pm

[quote=LAX772LR,reply=39][/quote


Incorrect. The 757 does it with full pax? I use to fly(as a pilot) the CDG - AMS , CDG-PIT/PHL and CDG -CVG and the 757 has no problem. All seats full and cargo bulked out! No sweat.

321 can't do it. After they add all the wiffle dust NEO-bla bla and super double winglets , it still can't match the stock from the factory 757.

Never seen a 321 on the tracks and more than likely if ever I do, it won't have all the seats full.

My brother flies the 321 for AA and it can't go westbound transcontinental with full pax and cargo. Can't do it as he says. 320 can. 321 POS.

Absolutely laughable that the airline thinks it will help replace a 767-300. Ha...


Flame away flamers.

Cheers
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 5:08 pm

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 58):
Remember, though, that DL will continue to remove 50-seaters from the fleet and upgauge on many flights, resulting in fewer aircraft.

Sure, they might remove a few more, but this notion of them totally going away is insane. The most likely reason they will totally disappear is due to lack of staffing at the regional level, not a desire to park them by the major carriers.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
dlflynhayn
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 5:12 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 51):
If DL was to come onto the LAX-AMS route, it is likely DL/KL would introduce a 3rd even later departure out of both LAX and AMS with a later arrival into both stations.

Im surprised DL metal is not on this route now,surely it would do just as good as SLC-AMS IMHO.. Back to topic good luck on RDU-CDG might be a route i take since my son is in college in the RDU area.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 5:32 pm

Quoting BravoOne (Reply 53):
May I ask where you see that published?

May I ask why you're still asking me-- instead of, say, checking Boeing's website to see for yourself?
The tankage options are listed right there.

Since the PW2040 was introduced, the 43,490L option became standard for PW models.
AFAIK, no RR operator took it, and I'm not sure it was even offered on RR models by the time the 757 was cancelled.


Quoting reltney (Reply 63):
321 can't do it. After they add all the wiffle dust NEO-bla bla and super double winglets , it still can't match the stock from the factory 757.

Ah yes... such a reasoned and convincing argument.  
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 5:41 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 64):

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 58):
Remember, though, that DL will continue to remove 50-seaters from the fleet and upgauge on many flights, resulting in fewer aircraft.

Sure, they might remove a few more, but this notion of them totally going away is insane. The most likely reason they will totally disappear is due to lack of staffing at the regional level, not a desire to park them by the major carriers.

-DiamondFlyer

Who said anything about them "totally going away" or even why they're getting parked? Good grief.

[Edited 2016-05-14 10:52:01]
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 5:48 pm

Quoting lexy (Reply 62):

Pharmaceutical and research industries.
 
cessna2
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 6:04 pm

Quoting davescj (Reply 54):
RDU has the research triangle, so lots of good contracts are there to support various routes. But if DL wanted to start to 'rebuild' a reliever hub, I think they would go back to CVG or MEM (do to location, existing facilities, etc). But that's just me.

I don't. RDU had more pax last year than CVG and MEM combined. RDU also has a much larger corporate market than either one of those cites. So DL will fly thier planes where they can make money. Hints the MEM Dehubbing and CVG downsizing.

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 60):
With the pharmaceutical and life sciences industry in the Research Triangle there is plenty of industry to support a focus city.

RDU is already considered a Focus City for DL.

Quoting lexy (Reply 62):
I don't get what's so special about RDU when compared to peer cities

Depends on what peer cities you are comparing RDU to. But I can say that RDU is home to over 100 companies headquarters and regional offices which gives it a great business travel market. It's also one of the most profitable stations in the DL domestic system outside of the hubs.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 64):
Sure, they might remove a few more, but this notion of them totally going away is insane.

Tell this to Ed Bastian. He really wants to bring flying back to mainline DL and away from regionals where he doesn't have control of their MTC and daily operations. Look for 9E to become the primary, if not their only, regional partner in the future.

All in all CDG will do well for DL out of RDU. It's the first of many more things to come.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 7:55 pm

I was very excited to see this one depart yesterday. Great that pax now have another choice to get to Europe and beyond.

RDU had a great March (last month data available). Pax numbers up 10% vs. last March. Hope the trend continues, it looks like pax numbers are up almost everywhere.

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 14):
The market isn't deep enough to support anything like daily year-round on a 767.

I don't think the RDU-CDG O&D market is that deep, but time will tell if the onward connections yield enough to make it worthwhile.

Quoting sparkingwave (Reply 42):
Didn't AA start RDU-ORY when they had their hub in Raleigh (80s/90s)? I believe they used a 767. What were the circumstances around that route compared to the new DL flight now?

They did. I think it was axed in the early 90s as AA 86ed the RDU hub.

Quoting ytraveller (Reply 68):
Pharmaceutical and research industries.

Don't forget the tech business (IBM, Cisco, SAS (HQ), Redhat (HQ), Lenovo (dual HQ with PEK), Citrix, etc.) I'm pretty sure that segment is bigger than either of those above.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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ERJ170
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 8:20 pm

Lenovo is pushing for a flight to China. I don't see how this would be able to happen, but perhaps they can do a scheduled charter flight.

Either way, this is good news. I did notice in a news article that they said they are building a new international gate for Delta. I'm confused cause I thought they already had 3 (23-25)... Unless they talking about another one else where. Can someone enlighten me where they are putting this gate?
Aiming High and going far..
 
flyguy89
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 9:02 pm

Quoting lexy (Reply 62):
I don't get what's so special about RDU when compared to peer cities, but whatever. I'd hate for anyone there to fly/drive to a hub like the rest of America.

They have a corporate community willing to subsidize air service. That seems to be the main special difference for RDU.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 69):
RDU had more pax last year than CVG and MEM combined.


That's not correct actually.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 69):
RDU also has a much larger corporate market than either one of those cites.


And pretty sure you just made this up. Market share in RDU is also fragmented, the market has high LCC saturation and the airport doesn't have the facilities to absorb a hub operation.

Either way, this is fantasy talk. Airlines don't do reliever hubs anymore.
 
airbazar
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 11:04 pm

Quoting lexy (Reply 62):
I don't get what's so special about RDU when compared to peer cities, but whatever. I'd hate for anyone there to fly/drive to a hub like the rest of America.

I often describe RDU as a mini BOS. The socio-economic factors are incredibly similar. Huge education, tech, and biotech sectors with more than a fair share of locals with a lot of disposable income.

Quoting reltney (Reply 63):
Flame away flamers.

I'd like to point you in the direction of the 757 and A321 order book over the last 10 years. What a plane can or cannot carry is irrelevant. Airlines buy planes to make money and a payload limited A321 makes more money than a fully loaded 757 over the same distance.

Quoting reltney (Reply 63):

321 can't do it. After they add all the wiffle dust NEO-bla bla and super double winglets , it still can't match the stock from the factory 757.

Neither can the 757 which is why you can't find a single 757 flying TATL with 200+ seats in it.
 
VgnAtl747
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 14, 2016 11:40 pm

Quoting lexy (Reply 62):
I don't get what's so special about RDU when compared to peer cities, but whatever. I'd hate for anyone there to fly/drive to a hub like the rest of America.

Snarky with a hint of jealousy?

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 71):
Can someone enlighten me where they are putting this gate?

My guess would be that DL doesn't want an aircraft positioned on the end of the concourse when their other operation is concentrated around the center section. That said, I'm not sure where they'd put it.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 72):
Market share in RDU is also fragmented, the market has high LCC saturation and the airport doesn't have the facilities to absorb a hub operation

Wait, are we comparing corporate demand of MEM, CVG and RDU? I don't have hard numbers, but RDU is called the silicon valley of the east coast for a reason. Not only would I argue that there is a larger corporate demand in RDU, I'd also argue that the demand in RDU is backed by more dollars. Companies here are more than willing to pay the premium for the service, especially some of these big tech companies with dual HQs. As for the LCC market, Southwest and JetBlue have a decent number of flights, but I'd hardly call Frontier or Allegiant big players (do people still fly G4?), and every time I've checked, Southwest has been no cheaper than the legacies on comparable itineraries. Not to mention that the corporate market isn't going to look to Southwest to start new service. They're going to look to one of the major network carriers who can offer connections to get their people all over the world. RDU is very much a global city.

There's also plenty of room to expand the aiport and facilities, though I agree that a "hub" is a pipe dream. I predict that in the next decade or so RDU will be a focus city for DL and UA with P2P routes that meet the needs and demands of the market, but hub status is never going to happen for either. I'm not sure how much more expansion AA will do with the CLT hub so close, though I will say that UA and AA have sort of let DL run away with RDU, and there's definitely a need for a stronger Star Alliance and One World presence to counter the DL machine.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 73):
I often describe RDU as a mini BOS. The socio-economic factors are incredibly similar. Huge education, tech, and biotech sectors with more than a fair share of locals with a lot of disposable income.

Most people say "why is RDU so special", and I thought that way... until I moved here. 3 major university systems, 2 of the top medical universities and healthcare networks in the country, countless biotech and pharma companies, and any tech company worth being in business has an office here. I think the comparison to BOS is a good one, there's definitely unique factors here, including businesses that are more than willing to subsidize (ie AA's daily LHR service), and community and local government that's willing to subsidize.

There's a huge Chinese and Indian population here too that have been begging for a better connection point to Asia, though CDG likely isn't that connecting point.

The next 5-10 years are going to be interesting in RDU. DL seems more than willing to give new service a try, it is absolutely labeled a focus city for DL. UA was the first to go non-stop to the west coast (SFO), and that flight performs very well, even with the competition DL and AA have to LAX. With the area booming, it's going to be very interesting over the next decade or so. I suspect we'll see more expansion and more new routes (domestic and international).

[Edited 2016-05-14 16:41:20]
Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
 
N867DA
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 12:37 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 71):
Lenovo is pushing for a flight to China. I don't see how this would be able to happen, but perhaps they can do a scheduled charter flight.

Even more unlikely considering their HQ is in PEK. ATL-PVG, which must be a larger market, is not viable--RDU-PEK has got to be pretty low on the list or possible routes.

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 55):
Why does DL need a reliever hub for ATL?

When I posted, I considered that there may be the opportunity to duplicate some services (eg, MIA-ATL or RDU-SFO) and route passengers efficiently based on existing seat allocation. But now that I think about it, having a crew base, emergency plan, contingency preparation, baggage, and other fixed facilities that are needed in true hubs/connection points must cost a pretty penny. I can still see some use cases for connecting through RDU since it's a lot nicer than ATL but maybe not yet.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
DTWLAX
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 1:50 am

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 69):
Hints the MEM Dehubbing and CVG downsizing.

MEM and CVG were dehubbed due to their proximity to ATL and DTW, not solely based on passenger numbers.
 
cessna2
Posts: 393
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 2:02 am

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 72):
That's not correct actually.
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 72):
RDU had more pax last year than CVG and MEM combined.


That's not correct actually.

Actually it is.
2015 Passenger Statistics.

CVG-6,316,332 million

MEM-3.57 million

CVG and MEM combined-9,886,332

RDU-9,943,331 million

So yes, my statement is correct.
Quoting cessna2 (Reply 69):
RDU also has a much larger corporate market than either one of those cites.


And pretty sure you just made this up. Market share in RDU is also fragmented, the market has high LCC saturation and the airport doesn't have the facilities to absorb a hub operation.

Its not worth the amount of time it would take me to prove you wrong.

Either way, this is fantasy talk. Airlines don't do reliever hubs anymore.

I never said they'd be looking at reliever hub in RDU. Simply pointing out FACTS. RDU is a good focus city for DL. With its corporate travel and consistent traffic, it prints money for DL.
 
flyguy89
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 4:38 am

Quoting VgnAtl747 (Reply 74):
Idon't have hard numbers, but RDU is called the silicon valley of the east coast for a reason. Not only would I argue that there is a larger corporate demand in RDU, I'd also argue that the demand in RDU is backed by more dollars.


Isn't Boston supposed to be the Silicon Valley of the east coast? In any case, the gross metropolitan product of the Triangle area, while certainly larger than Memphis, is not outside the pack or even top of its peer cities. Where I definitely agree with you is that the business community there is willing to put their money where their mouth is and pay for premium service instead of just complaining about not having it.

Quoting VgnAtl747 (Reply 74):
As for the LCC market, Southwest and JetBlue have a decent number of flights, but I'd hardly call Frontier or Allegiant big players (do people still fly G4?), and every time I've checked, Southwest has been no cheaper than the legacies on comparable itineraries.


Regardless of what your experience may have been, the facts tell us that the likes of WN and B6 are indeed notably cheaper than the legacies, have a presence in nearly all major markets, and the combined market share of all LCC's is a substantial ~35%.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 77):
So yes, my statement is correct.

Your MEM numbers are wrong, which is why your statement isn't correct.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 77):
It's not worth the amount of time it would take me to prove you wrong.


  ok...

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 77):
Simply pointing out FACTS.

You haven't presented any facts, that's what I'm trying to point out. Just broad and vague statements as to what you feel the situation is.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 77):
I never said they'd be looking at reliever hub in RDU. Simply pointing out FACTS. RDU is a good focus city for DL. With its corporate travel and consistent traffic, it prints money for DL.

Unless one is stealthing as a member of an airline's revenue department, I've pretty much learned not to trust anyone claiming something "prints money" for an airline.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 1:13 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 72):

They have a corporate community willing to subsidize air service. That seems to be the main special difference for RDU.

And so do most other airports (if their mgmt is competent). Even the World's busiest airport has offered subsides to get new flights.

http://www.ajc.com/news/business/atl...r-incentives-for-new-intern/nfLDX/
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
Dalmd88
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 2:05 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 73):
Neither can the 757 which is why you can't find a single 757 flying TATL with 200+ seats in it.

The reason you don't see a 757 with 200+ seats flying TATL is nobody wants to fly that config over the pond. The plane can do it. All DL are configed with a international lie flat FC product. That takes up the entire space forward of L2, making it impossible to get to the 199 mark in the back. While the internationals are around 180. The A321 in a domestic config for DL barely seats more than 190. For international ops it would be near 170.
 
BravoOne
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 2:50 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 66):
May I ask why you're still asking me-- instead of, say, checking Boeing's website to see for yourself? The tankage options are listed right there.

Don't your feathers in a ruffle. My source which trumps any Boeing website is My Boeing Fleet and remains the bible for Boeing resource material. It does not show any such "Option" as you call it so I remain skeptical at best. No big deal as will check it our further. You may be mistaking "line fuel" for tankage?
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 2:54 pm

Quoting N867DA (Reply 52):
Will RDU become a reliever hub for DL? As ATL gets packed, Delta may look into selling connections through Raleigh at some point. With service to several North American cities and CDG, RDU may be more of a DL hub than CVG.

Doubt it will ever be a reliever hub, but I have seen some connections available on Delta.com
it is termed a focus city while CVG is still termed a hub, and yet I think their daily flight numbers are about the same.

Quoting VgnAtl747 (Reply 74):
though I will say that UA and AA have sort of let DL run away with RDU

AA especially. Back after Midway folded, AA / AA Eagle picked up some of that point to point flying and did so for a number of years. They flew a lot of the similar routes that DL does today, like CMH, BOS, BDL etc. AA Eagle was even flying to cities like MCI, SDF, JAX from RDU and AA mainline to AUS and STL (at the time STL was pretty much an RJ hub for AA with mainline to larger destinations) at one time. I think about 5-6 years ago AA started winding down these kind of flights. I'm not sure if they have any more point to point flying but as soon as they winded down DL picked up a number of those routes and has grown ever since. AA pretty much handed over that traffic. Even though they now have CLT, RDU could have remained a focus city for AA given the former hub there and LHR route. They still have a good presence but DL has take over and crept up on them for sure.

http://www.rdu.com/press-release/ame...er-planes-to-popular-destinations/
 
JetBlueCLT
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 3:01 pm

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 77):

Delta prints money in RDU? Can you guide me in the right direction where I can see that info? Or are you just making things up.

I can say American "prints money" in CLT because not too long ago I believe it was Scott Kirby who stated that CLT is American most profitable hub.
Pittsburgh Penguins, Steelers, Pirates and Charlotte Hornets Fan
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 3:04 pm

Quoting VgnAtl747 (Reply 74):
though I will say that UA and AA have sort of let DL run away with RDU,

For AA, yes, they've been pretty complacent @ RDU for the last 5 or so years.

However, UA has actually added two new markets in the last few years (SFO, DEN) and has replaced (or is replacing) many of their RJ rounds with mainline (EWR, IAD, DEN).
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
Lexy
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 3:15 pm

Because Parisians are falling over themselves to visit the many sights and sounds of Raleigh. Just to gaze upon the tiny downtown surrounded by endless office parks and cul-de-sac neighborhoods. It's a suburban utopia!
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
superjeff
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 3:39 pm

I agree that RDU should do very well for DL. I've flown the AA 763 to LHR from there and it was full, in both J and Y. I would think the 752 is a starter as they build this route, but I could easily see it upgauging to a 763 or 332 within a year.

On my AA flight to LHR, the FA's (RDU based) said that the word was that that flight is going to a 332 this summer as well, FWIW.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 4:08 pm

Quoting lexy (Reply 85):
Because Parisians are falling over themselves to visit the many sights and sounds of Raleigh. Just to gaze upon the tiny downtown surrounded by endless office parks and cul-de-sac neighborhoods. It's a suburban utopia!

Someone had their Hater Flakes for breakfast.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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ERJ170
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 6:59 pm

With Delta increasing their presence, could one or two of their JV or alliance partners make an appearance? Would be nice if Westjet or a Mexican partner started weekly or a daily flight
Aiming High and going far..
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
Posts: 1396
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 7:03 pm

Quoting lexy (Reply 85):

Because Parisians are falling over themselves to visit the many sights and sounds of Raleigh. Just to gaze upon the tiny downtown surrounded by endless office parks and cul-de-sac neighborhoods. It's a suburban utopia

I disagree. They're coming for the beer and BBQ.
 
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southwest1675
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 8:20 pm

If RDU can support 2 daily nonstop flights to Europe, I don't see why BNA can't.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
jacobin777
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 8:38 pm

Quoting Lexy (Reply 25):

This is what high prescription drug prices are paying for.
Quoting incitatus (Reply 27):
That is funny. Drug companies use marketing and pricing tricks that would make airlines blush.

It takes almost a decade and >$1 billion dollars to bring a drug to the market, not to mention all of hundreds if not thousands of failed drug experiments/failed developments, etc.
"Up the Irons!"
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 11:23 pm

Quoting Southwest1675 (Reply 90):
If RDU can support 2 daily nonstop flights to Europe, I don't see why BNA can't

While BNA (31st) and RDU (29th) have compatible sized CSAs, the RDU and BNA air travel markets are very different. BNA has a WN hub and lots of tourism. RDU has neither, but it does have a healthy amount of business travel and as far as TATL flights go, it has a geographical advantage, especially when we're talking about 757/A321 service.

As I said in another thread, I can see TATL flights from BNA in the 5 year range, but it's going to require a widebody, which is a significant investment for an airline to serve without having hub feed on both ends.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
flyguy89
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 15, 2016 11:34 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 79):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 72):

They have a corporate community willing to subsidize air service. That seems to be the main special difference for RDU.

And so do most other airports (if their mgmt is competent). Even the World's busiest airport has offered subsides to get new flights.

http://www.ajc.com/news/business/atl...r-incentives-for-new-intern/nfLDX/

There's a difference between airport incentives, which are common, (i.e. we'll waive landing fees for X number of years for new service) and the corporate community actually putting up dollars in the form of performance guarantees or commitments to purchase X-number of seats. The latter is pretty rare and I commend RDU's business community and local government organization for facilitating it...good for them for putting their money where their mouth is.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Mon May 16, 2016 12:00 am

Quoting Southwest1675 (Reply 90):
If RDU can support 2 daily nonstop flights to Europe, I don't see why BNA can't

Because BNA doesn't have the corporate travel market that RDU has. If it did, it'd have the flight(s)-- plain and simple.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
UA444
Posts: 2993
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Mon May 16, 2016 12:24 am

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 76):
MEM and CVG were dehubbed due to their proximity to ATL and DTW, not solely based on passenger numbers.

If they had the PAX numbers, they would've been kept regardless of proximity.
 
reltney
Posts: 615
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:34 am

RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Mon May 16, 2016 4:33 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 73):

GYST

That's right. Single class service vs 2 class. If you single class a 757-200 Same seating.

Not an issue. I FLY the planes not ride in the back thinking I know. When I cross the pond and land in the US, I still have my reserves plus contingency fuel and never have I been topped off . Usually have no more than 225000 takeoff weight out of CDG.

757 does it with room to spare and the only mods are sat antenna(drag ) and lay flat seating.

You must compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. The 321 is a lemon they have to add sugar and wiffle dust to match the 80s era built stock 757. Imagine if the 757 received a wing and engine mod. Even more untouchable.

I fly the plane, not ride. I have to work with the numbers.


The bus is good, just not as good as the 757 in any form........well fuel burn but that's an engine thing..


Flame away flamers
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
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Aesma
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Mon May 16, 2016 5:30 pm

Apples to apples, the 757 is a gas guzzler that most airlines in the world don't want anything to do with.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2209
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Mon May 16, 2016 7:01 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 97):
Apples to apples, the 757 is a gas guzzler that most airlines in the world don't want anything to do with.

Nowadays yes, but not during its production years which ended over a decade ago. If Boeing were still building and decided to re-engine it, it would be a player. Ultimately, they decided to go a different route.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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LAX772LR
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Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Tue May 17, 2016 1:23 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 98):
Nowadays yes, but not during its production years which ended over a decade ago.

How do you figure?

The 757 was an aircraft that did well only in N.America. Even in its heyday, the major Asian carriers steered well clear of it. The few that didn't (e.g. SQ) got rid of it in short order. Ditto S.America. Same for Europe, where BA was essentially the only non-charter major carrier to make use of it. And it barely registered as anything more than a blip in Africa.


Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 98):
If Boeing were still building and decided to re-engine it, it would be a player.

Based on what, the fact that Boeing couldn't even give the things away in their last two years of sale?
Offered at fire-sale prices, and they couldn't sell more than seven.


Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 98):
Ultimately, they decided to go a different route.

Becauuuuuse-- NO ONE WANTED TO BUY IT.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil

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