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factsonly
Posts: 2912
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Tue May 17, 2016 8:34 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 99):
Same for Europe, where BA was essentially the only non-charter major carrier to make use of it.

and other European carriers:
- Aer Lingus
- Air Astana
- IBERIA
- Finnair
- Icelandair
- La Compagnie
- OpenSkies

And a reasonable number with European Charter carriers - though many 2nd hand a/c:
- Air Finland
- Air Greenland
- Air Italy
- Blue Panorama
- Astreus
- Atlasjet
- Aurelia
- Condor Flugdienst
- Excel Airways
- First Choice
- Hola Airlines
- InterEuropean Airways
- Jet2
- Mint Airways
- Monarch Airlines
- MyTravelAirways
- Thomas Cook
- Thomson Airways
- Titan
- Transavia

and European Cargo carriers still operating:
- Cygnus
- DHL
- European Air Transport (DHL)
- TNT
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Tue May 17, 2016 7:18 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 99):
How do you figure?

Times change. The 757 did just fine in it's time and served a need.

I (and Boeing too, I'm sure) could care less where their product is used.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 99):
Based on what, the fact that Boeing couldn't even give the things away in their last two years of sale?
Offered at fire-sale prices, and they couldn't sell more than seven.

Obviously, Boeing decided their future was on the 737 platform not the 757. In the post 9/11 years, this was a smart move.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 99):
Becauuuuuse-- NO ONE WANTED TO BUY IT.

Becauuuuuuse-- THE 737-800/900 WAS A BETTER OPTION FOR 757 MISSIONS.

So do you also think the 747 wasn't a good airplane simply because it isn't (mass) produced anymore? Hate to break it to you, but markets change and manufacturers/airlines adjust. It still doesn't change history.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Tue May 17, 2016 7:35 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 101):
The 757 did just fine in it's time and served a need.

Indeed, but that time is now long since gone.


Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 101):
Obviously, Boeing decided their future was on the 737 platform not the 757.

Correction: the airlines/market decide that their future was in the 737 platform, not Boeing.


Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 101):
Becauuuuuuse-- THE 737-800/900 WAS A BETTER OPTION FOR 757 MISSIONS.

Which is whyyyyy, if you'll read your own nonsensical comment, the 757 would not "be a player" in such context.


Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 101):
So do you also think the 747 wasn't a good airplane simply because it isn't (mass) produced anymore?

Stop right there. Show me where I've said anything about the 757 not being "a good airplane"
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Tue May 17, 2016 8:35 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 99):
Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 98):
Ultimately, they decided to go a different route.

Becauuuuuse-- NO ONE WANTED TO BUY IT.

Right. This debate goes on over and over and over. What part of the 757 was phased out because it was no longer selling, and no prospects for sales, don't people ever seem to understand?

The 757 is an awesome airplane. So is the 707 and 727 and L-1011. All products hit their time in their life cycle.
 
sv11
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Wed May 18, 2016 3:03 am

Boeing couldn't do a 757NG also cause there was no new engine available. It had to compete with 737NG having new wing and engines starting in 1997. Orders dried up after 9/11. 737NG also had economies of scale production. Wonder if RR could have done a new engine based on the Trent (the one on the 757 is based on the RB211).

sv11
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Wed May 18, 2016 6:29 am

Quoting sv11 (Reply 104):
Wonder if RR could have done a new engine based on the Trent (the one on the 757 is based on the RB211).

Of course they could.
They could've done a new engine based on whatever they wanted..... **IF** there was the demand for it.

Which, as we know, there wasn't.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2208
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Wed May 18, 2016 11:54 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 102):
Correction: the airlines/market decide that their future was in the 737 platform, not Boeing.

That's arguable, but what isn't is that you can't buy a plane that doesn't yet exist. The 757 was around many years before the 738/9. Boeing could have invested in a NG 757 option, but they didn't and airlines moved to the 737. It really wouldn't have made sense in the post-9/11 era to continue down the path of having two narrowbodies that have similar mission profiles.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 102):
Which is whyyyyy, if you'll read your own nonsensical comment, the 757 would not "be a player" in such context.

If you don't know the meaning of "player", I suggest a google search to educate yourself.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 102):

Stop right there. Show me where I've said anything about the 757 not being "a good airplane"

And I never said you said that. Reading comprehension is your friend.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Wed May 18, 2016 10:39 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 106):
That's arguable

No it's not. Planes sales exist when there's new unit demand, and they don't where there isn't.
OEMs don't cancel aircraft in demand; no amount of word-salad from you changes nor refutes that simple fact.


Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 106):
And I never said you said that.

Ya know, if you're going to make a ridiculous claim like: "So do you also think the 747 wasn't a good airplane," then you should probably own up to it when called out.

How else could the likes of you presume to know what I think about anything, unless you believe I've said such.
What, are you suddenly psychic now?


Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 106):
Reading comprehension is your friend.

Yes, one with whom you seem to only have a passing acquaintance in your own right.  
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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ERJ170
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Thu May 19, 2016 1:53 am

So in other RDU, the ends of Terminal 1 is on they way down, just leaving the central terminal... Southwest still has plenty of open gates on their side.. I bet they wish they had company...
Aiming High and going far..
 
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ERJ170
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Fri May 27, 2016 12:29 am

Not wanting to change the subject but since the thread has died down I wanted to ask a question.

At the point when CDG was announced last October, there was a rumbling that DL was going to open a line maintenance station at RDU. Does anyone know if that occurred or if it's going to occur?
Aiming High and going far..
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5353
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Fri May 27, 2016 1:36 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 109):

Yes,
RDU, BNA, MSY, MCI, CLT, ORD* and DFW have all been opened as line stations. (I feel like I'm forgetting one more)

*Also a hangar was opened in ORD. Not sure if it was the old Delta hangar or the old NW hangar. DL's was pretty big and NWs was narrow bodies.


I'm sure more stations are coming, the mainline fleet keeps getting bigger. Base maintenance is out of room too.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Fri May 27, 2016 2:03 am

What aircraft? It doesn't show up on the webpage so just wondering. GoJet has a line at RDU also.. Does any of them use a hangar? Perhaps one of the South hangars?
Aiming High and going far..
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5353
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Fri May 27, 2016 2:11 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 111):
What aircraft?

not sure.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 111):
It doesn't show up on the webpage so just wondering.

TechOps hasn't been doing a good job with keeping the web site up to date.

Also not on there is the BR715 engine or Trent 1000 engine.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3330
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Fri May 27, 2016 2:22 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 111):
GoJet has a line at RDU also.. Does any of them use a hangar?

GoJet (or NoGoJet depending on who you ask) also has a crew base there, which is a great place to have your crews to do all sorts of NYC flying. Working out great for them.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
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ERJ170
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 28, 2016 3:07 pm

First it was the launch of CDG, then it was 4x daily to DCA.. Now it's Newark! 3x daily CR7 starting Nov 6th! I wonder what's next?
Aiming High and going far..
 
Sightseer
Posts: 993
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:04 am

RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 28, 2016 3:51 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 114):
First it was the launch of CDG, then it was 4x daily to DCA.. Now it's Newark! 3x daily CR7 starting Nov 6th!

Wow, DL is really targeting business traffic in RDU and also will have quite a network up the East Coast with DCA, BWI, PHL, EWR, LGA, JFK, BDL, and BOS.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 114):
I wonder what's next?

Hard to tell with DL. Lots of their recent additions at RDU have seemingly been out of left field.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 28, 2016 4:54 pm

I believe they are targeting the top 20 business markets out of RDU so Chicago has to be high up on the line... It will be a return of their original destination if that's is so...
Aiming High and going far..
 
kotoka
Topic Author
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:57 pm

RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 28, 2016 8:01 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 114):

First it was the launch of CDG, then it was 4x daily to DCA.. Now it's Newark! 3x daily CR7 starting Nov 6th! I wonder what's next?

Where did you see this news? I don't see any announcement for DL starting RDU-EWR.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sat May 28, 2016 8:24 pm

Check delta.com... It is there... Delta will launch a RDU Route without an official news announcement.. Or perhaps it will come later this week..

[Edited 2016-05-28 13:24:44]
Aiming High and going far..
 
flybhx764
Posts: 273
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 8:48 am

RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 29, 2016 12:46 pm

Does anyone know how well this route is performing. Loads?
 
PMUA787
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:35 pm

RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 29, 2016 2:15 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 11):
If you're referring to UA, keep in mind that all DL 752's are PW-powered, where UA oceanic 752's are RR-powered. The PW motors have better long range payload lift and fuel efficiency. Not by a significant amount, but it is definitely noticeable.

UA has a small subfleet of B757-200's with the PW2040's that I believe are used on the ps routes out of EWR. Why didnt UA put the PW2040 birds on the EWR-European routes and stick the ex-CO RR's on the ps transcons? Is it that the ex-UA PW2040 equipped ones would need extra work to be ETOPS certified?
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2208
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Sun May 29, 2016 2:47 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 107):
No it's not. Planes sales exist when there's new unit demand, and they don't where there isn't.
OEMs don't cancel aircraft in demand; no amount of word-salad from you changes nor refutes that simple fact.

Yes it is.

Yeah, maybe if Boeing got a 10,000 airframe order or if Apple got a 100,000,000 order for Apple II's, they'd have kept those products around longer, but at some point it's too expensive for them to build and noncompetitive. In both cases, the companies merged those products into their mainline products. This is called product lifecycle management, every product goes through it. You should google it.

You should also google "opportunity cost". You don't build something that's 1x profitable, when you can use the same resources or less and build something that's 1.5x profitable.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 107):
Ya know, if you're going to make a ridiculous claim like: "So do you also think the 747 wasn't a good airplane," then you should probably own up to it when called out.

That I said (although you conveniently took it out of context). The other I never said. Is it really that hard to know the difference? Wouldn't it have just been easier if you answered the original question? I guess a linear discussion isn't as fun as trolling...

Back to the topic of this thread:

I noticed on FR24 that at least two of the RDU-CDG flights had already been significantly delayed (3-4 hours) in the first two weeks. I found that interesting considering that flight has 3+ hours of ground time at RDU (unless they've changed the rotation).
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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ERJ170
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RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:20 pm

So, RDU released their vision of RDU in the next 20 years and it included 9 mockups for the new airport look. These include terminal expansions, runway additions and/or replacements, and parking/rental car facilities. Look over them HERE and tell me what you think.

My opinion is as follows:

best choices are options 2 and 4; however some modifications are needed:
* Option 2: make the remote terminal (Terminal 3) the international terminal with a few other gates.. have underground tunnels to Terminal 2... expand Terminal 1
* Option 4: Seperate the international terminal part from Terminal 1.. have underground terminals to both Terminal 1 and 2.. expand Terminal 1

Other things I thought.. rental cars in the central parking location;
Build a 2-3 bay hanger for narrowbody or widebody maintenance
Aiming High and going far..
 
rajincajun01
Posts: 742
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:16 am

RE: DL Inaugural RDU-CDG

Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:08 pm

The problem for RDU has long been that their Airport Authority has no vision. All of their actions are reactionary instead of ones that plan for the future. This has been true since AA and Midway closed their hubs there.

Parking there is some of the worst in the country, and now they've made it worse with their new system that no one can figure out. They need to move the car rental facilities offsite sooner rather than later and build a second garage to meet demand.

Terminal 2 has been a disaster operationally since the day it opened. They threw a couple of international gates at the end of Concourse C, and now don't have any more space to expand those international operations. It is a nightmare in the gate area with LHR and CDG leaving at similar times. Then add in CUN flights on occasion, and AA and DL are having to swap gates, tow planes, and squeeze their planes into an already cramped area. (For those who don't know, when AA has to park their LHR flight on C24, it actually takes up three gates because of the cramped area.)

The correct plan would have been to make C1, C3, D1 and D3 the international gates. They would be close to customs (as opposed to the 2/3 mile walk it is now), and wouldn't block multiple gates when widebodies arrive.

If they do expand T2, hopefully they have a plan to add more international gates. The market could easily support a flight on one of the ME3 carriers due to its large Middle Eastern population and businesses.
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