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AviatorW6
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LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sat May 14, 2016 6:00 pm

Hi,

I've just seen on seatguru.com that in Lufthansa's "V3" 747-8 seat configuration the Premium Economy is inbetween two Economy sections. Are the unoccupied seats in W blocked in case the load factor is below 100%?
It would be pretty unfaire allowing some opportunity seekers paying Y fares taking the empty W seats, or does it happen?

Also, how does the 10-abreast Y in the 747-8I compare to a similarly configured 777 in terms of comfort?

AviatorW6
 
Luxair747SP
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sat May 14, 2016 6:35 pm

Quoting AviatorW6 (Thread starter):
Also, how does the 10-abreast Y in the 747-8I compare to a similarly configured 777 in terms of comfort?

The cabin of the 748 is a good few inches wider, so there is a lot more space than on a 777 configured with 3-4-3.
 
N1120A
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sat May 14, 2016 7:00 pm

Quoting AviatorW6 (Thread starter):
Also, how does the 10-abreast Y in the 747-8I compare to a similarly configured 777 in terms of comfort?

The seats are significantly wider and more comfortable.

Quoting AviatorW6 (Thread starter):
I've just seen on seatguru.com that in Lufthansa's "V3" 747-8 seat configuration the Premium Economy is inbetween two Economy sections. Are the unoccupied seats in W blocked in case the load factor is below 100%?
It would be pretty unfaire allowing some opportunity seekers paying Y fares taking the empty W seats, or does it happen?

Those are there for people who hold Premium Economy tickets. I'm sure there are op ups from time to time, but it isn't about leaving it open for last minute seat selection.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
RodRB
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sat May 14, 2016 7:16 pm

Quoting AviatorW6 (Thread starter):
It would be pretty unfaire allowing some opportunity seekers paying Y fares taking the empty W seats, or does it happen?

I flew LH 748 a few weeks ago. They were selling Y+ upgrade from 300 euros.

I booked the first Y seat behind the Y+ sector. (row 27 in my flight). The legroom was better than Y+ and I got it for free on check in.

But Its a preferred seat, so they will charge you 100 euros before the online check in opens.
 
holzmann
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sat May 14, 2016 7:21 pm

I am Star Gold on UAL and have been upgraded at the gate to LH PE many times. No charge. IAD-FRA-IAD / LH 418/419 route.
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LawnDart
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sat May 14, 2016 7:43 pm

Quoting AviatorW6 (Thread starter):
Also, how does the 10-abreast Y in the 747-8I compare to a similarly configured 777 in terms of comfort?

According to Seatguru, Y class on LH 748 is 17.1", Y class on EK 773 (10 across) is 17.0. Meh...
 
N1120A
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sat May 14, 2016 7:47 pm

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 5):
According to Seatguru, Y class on LH 748 is 17.1", Y class on EK 773 (10 across) is 17.0. Meh...

The feel is much different from that.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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Stitch
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sat May 14, 2016 8:25 pm

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 5):
According to Seatguru, Y class on LH 748 is 17.1", Y class on EK 773 (10 across) is 17.0. Meh...
Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
The feel is much different from that.

I expect the seat armrests are a bit wider, allowing the seats to be spaced farther apart. So while your bum may not notice any difference, your shoulders would and that is what most people seem to identify as "spacious" or "cramped".
 
Skisandy
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sun May 15, 2016 12:10 am

See next post... sorry.

[Edited 2016-05-14 17:16:12]
 
Skisandy
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sun May 15, 2016 12:14 am

Just flew LH GIG-FRA-GIG on the 747-800.

Upgraded to Premium Economy for 300 Euro at the gate. All I had was a middle seat
in the regular economy section - so I was desperate.....

Seating is 2-4-2 compared to 3-4-3 economy. A huge difference in feel. Special meal, welcome drink etc.

A LH flight attendant told me that way back (25-30 years) this was what business class was
all about, while at that time first class was more luxurious with larger seats and better meals
(but absolutely no flat beds). I agree - as I was on board such a business class at that time.

This LH premium economy product is miles ahead the pathetic "comfort" or whatever special economy
seating there is on AA,DL,UA.

Also - the LH flight attendants were super pleasant.

Edited to add this:

Yes - the placement of premium economy between two regular economy sections
is odd and may be confusing for the passengers. I had an empty seat next to me in premium economy.. but
in the middle of the night a lady from regular economy moved in there and made herself more comfortable.

About an hour before landing the crew discovered this, but let her stay anyway. She pretended to be hard
of hearing when they told her that she was in the wrong section, and that it actually is not allowed to
upgrade yourself in the middle of the flight.....

[Edited 2016-05-14 17:17:49]
 
Viscount724
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sun May 15, 2016 12:53 am

Quoting AviatorW6 (Thread starter):
Also, how does the 10-abreast Y in the 747-8I compare to a similarly configured 777 in terms of comfort?

10-abreast on all 747s is better than on the 777 due to the 1-foot wider 747 fuselage (21 ft. 4 in. vs 20 ft. 4 in.). I've never considered the 10-abreast 747 to be cramped. Early 747s were of course much better when they were 9-abreast (3-4-2) but most early 747 operators began switching to 10-abreast by the mid-1970s, especially after the OPEC embargo when oil prices tripled or quadrupled.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sun May 15, 2016 3:49 am

Quoting Skisandy (Reply 9):
About an hour before landing the crew discovered this, but let her stay anyway. She pretended to be hard
of hearing when they told her that she was in the wrong section, and that it actually is not allowed to
upgrade yourself in the middle of the flight.....

That's when the flight attendant should pull out one of those onboard credit card machines and shout "$300. WE TAKE VISA!"  

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sun May 15, 2016 4:08 am

Quoting Skisandy (Reply 9):
This LH premium economy product is miles ahead the pathetic "comfort" or whatever special economy
seating there is on AA,DL,UA.

Really? I appreciated the added shoulder room but that was the only notable difference from DL I could note. It might be 3/4 of a mile ahead.
 
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BlueSky1976
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sun May 15, 2016 6:37 am

Quoting AviatorW6 (Thread starter):
Also, how does the 10-abreast Y in the 747-8I compare to a similarly configured 777 in terms of comfort?

It is a sardine can.

Flew LH 744 in Economy, I do not recommend it. Worst widebody experience, by far.
The queen of the skies is dead.
 
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AviatorW6
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sun May 15, 2016 7:09 am

Quoting Skisandy (Reply 9):
is odd and may be confusing for the passengers. I had an empty seat next to me in premium economy.. but
in the middle of the night a lady from regular economy moved in there and made herself more comfortable.

About an hour before landing the crew discovered this, but let her stay anyway. She pretended to be hard
of hearing when they told her that she was in the wrong section, and that it actually is not allowed to
upgrade yourself in the middle of the flight...

Woaah. You paid EUR 300 surcharge to have yourself upgraded to Premium Economy for a single leg, meanwhile she enjoyed (almost) the same level of service for free of charge. I just find it strange that airlines (LH in particular) do not have arrangements to get these empty seats blocked, especially when the accessibility of an upper class is as easy as in the mentioned configuration. Placing a lockage between the armrests (which could be removed only with a key by the crew) after boarding is really that irresolvable?

AviatorW6
 
zkncj
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sun May 15, 2016 8:50 am

Quoting AviatorW6 (Reply 14):
I just find it strange that airlines (LH in particular) do not have arrangements to get these empty seats blocked, especially when the accessibility of an upper class is as easy as in the mentioned configuration. Placing a lockage between the armrests (which could be removed only with a key by the crew) after boarding is really that irresolvable?

Most airlines have there PE in its own cabin, with wall and curtain to block it off from the normal Y.
 
galleypower
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sun May 15, 2016 9:49 am

Quoting Skisandy (Reply 9):
Yes - the placement of premium economy between two regular economy sections
is odd and may be confusing for the passengers. I had an empty seat next to me in premium economy.. but
in the middle of the night a lady from regular economy moved in there and made herself more comfortable.

Reason for this is to be able to "play" with business class extention. So one doesnt have to rearrange everything if you add more C seats.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 15):
Most airlines have there PE in its own cabin, with wall and curtain to block it off from the normal Y.

Well, that all depends on the aircraft and the original layout. On A380, B744 and the Airbus fleet LH has it, too. On the B747 other airlines fly there are actually quite a few very mixed layouts.
 
VC10er
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sun May 15, 2016 12:03 pm

Reading about that woman who upgraded herself reminded me of the movie Bridesmaids! Knowing Lufthansa as well as I do, I'm surprised they didn't work harder to pry her out and send her back even if there was just 10 minutes of flight left!

How full was that 747-8 to Rio and back? When I see her at GIG I always wonder if LH fills that giant beast given the Brazilian economy, Zika etc.

There has always been a special thing about that route, Rio/Frankfurt. As I live in Rio part of the time, I have seen and met many Germans here, worked with German ex-pats and have for 20 years. I have noted (but for the exception of one huge a-hole) that Germans just love Rio, and Brazil in general.

Many, many years ago I flew a sparkling brand new VARIG 777, one way from FRA to GIG in business and the fare was over $10,000! It was for business and had no other choice.

At that time, I thought the new VARIG 777 was gorgeous. (The interiors + Landor's livery) Next time I will be on that 747-8 from GIG to FRA.

Thanks!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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AviatorW6
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sun May 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 15):
Most airlines have there PE in its own cabin, with wall and curtain to block it off from the normal Y.

On narrow-body aircrafts they often sell emergency exit seats (with extra legroom) for an additional fee and those are mostly in the middle of the cabin, hence we may not be talking about just a handful of cases.
I don't see the point of letting paying passengers taking their premium seats and once boarding is done, everyone else can cannibilise the remaining places. It somehow degrades the value of such products in my eyes.
 
Skisandy
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sun May 15, 2016 2:53 pm

The 747-800 may not be the ideal aircraft for LH to Rio right now.

Economy was completely full both ways. I think the German tourists love the great
exchange rate at this time, and take the Zika problem in stride.... they have been
going a lot to South East Asia for decades, and there are plenty of tropical diseases there....

The premium economy section was 2/3 full.

Business class was less than 1/2 full = must be the problems with the oil business that
Brazil has, the low prices, the Petrobras scandal -- the crisis!

I am sure business class on LH 747-800 to Sao Paulo has better occupancy.

Regarding the lady who upgraded herself. She was of quite advanced age. It was her
daughter who brought her up, in the middle of the night, and I think she (the daughter)
knew exactly what she was doing. I am not sure the old lady knew.

The reason they didn't send her back was because the crew was exceptionally nice and
in a good mood. I have noticed this the past few years, when flying LH. At no time do I encounter
dry and strict Germans, no nitpicking pursers, no cold Frauleins without a smile....nein, nein!

German crews nowadays seem very accommodating, helpful and much warmer than in the old days.
 
panampreflight
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sun May 15, 2016 5:42 pm

What's this about "W" Class. I work in pricing inventory and there are multiple pricing classes in pricing, no set inventory for that class.
 
zkncj
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sun May 15, 2016 6:51 pm

Quoting galleypower (Reply 16):
Well, that all depends on the aircraft and the original layout. On A380, B744 and the Airbus fleet LH has it, too. On the B747 other airlines fly there are actually quite a few very mixed layouts.

Um NZ,QF,VS,BA,CX all have an solid wall between Y/PE along with an curtain to close the area off.
 
panampreflight
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Sun May 15, 2016 7:03 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 21):


Yea, Well, these are real airlines not the watered down domestic American based airlines versions that
have either taken the curtains away or they are so thin that they look like ladies nylons.
 
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ams747757
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Mon May 16, 2016 1:17 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 13):

Quoting AviatorW6 (Thread starter):
Also, how does the 10-abreast Y in the 747-8I compare to a similarly configured 777 in terms of comfort?

It is a sardine can.

Flew LH 744 in Economy, I do not recommend it. Worst widebody experience, by far.

I will second this. The 400's are pretty tight. I found the seats to be pretty narrow, and while the knee space is ok since they are slim, you lose comfort in the seat because of this, and the pitch is still 31" so the slimmer seats make little difference to the pax.
 
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AviatorW6
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Mon May 16, 2016 3:11 pm

Quoting ams747757 (Reply 23):
I will second this. The 400's are pretty tight. I found the seats to be pretty narrow,

I cannot recall hearing people bashing the Y class of the 747-400 before so it is quite interesting that apparently it's almost as bad as the 777.
 
trex8
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Mon May 16, 2016 3:25 pm

I was on a LH 744 last year, I dont recall the seat width were any worse than NW or UA 744s except that the slim seats perceived pitch were better than UA Y ones, its been a few years since I flew NW/DL so cant say.
 
EddieDude
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Tue May 17, 2016 12:27 am

Quoting AviatorW6 (Reply 24):
I cannot recall hearing people bashing the Y class of the 747-400 before so it is quite interesting that apparently it's almost as bad as the 777.

Me neither. I seem to recall a couple of posts that mentioned actually that LH's A346s were kind of uncomfortable compared to the 744s. My only experience onboard LH 744 happened so long ago (and the flight was quite empty, so I had the chance to sleep very well), that I cannot say.
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ams747757
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Tue May 17, 2016 2:22 pm

According to Seat guru, the LH 744's are 17.1" wide in Y, 17.5" on some configs of the 748, 18" on the A380, and 17.3" on the 346. So not much difference, but I believe that their 744's are basically inline with the 10-across Y found on an increasing number of 777s these days.
 
superjeff
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RE: LH 747-8I Premium ECO Inbetween ECO Sections

Tue May 17, 2016 6:03 pm

Quoting panampreflight (Reply 22):
Yea, Well, these are real airlines not the watered down domestic American based airlines versions that
have either taken the curtains away or they are so thin that they look like ladies nylons.

U.S. airlines are required to have the transparent/translucent curtains for security reasons - it is an FAA requirement.

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