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G500
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California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 5:49 pm

"Executives at Southwest Airlines like to joke that they run a California airline, based in Texas.

For good reason. The Dallas-based carrier flies more passengers in and out of California each year than any other airline, thanks primarily to a dominance in midsize cities including Burbank, San Diego, Oakland and San Jose.

“We have never fallen out of love with California,” said Andrew Watterson, Southwest's vice president of network and revenue.

But there is a new suitor for California fliers.


The parent company of Alaska Airlines is rushing forward with a $2.6-billion deal to acquire Virgin America in hopes of becoming the predominant airline of the Golden State — and the entire West Coast.

“Right now we are not your go-to airline if you live in California,” said Joseph Sprague, senior vice president for communications and external relations at Alaska Air Group. “We plan to change that.”



http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...southwest-20160515-snap-story.html

[Edited 2016-05-15 10:58:06 by G500]
 
jetwet1
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 6:02 pm

Then they better start filling in the blanks, there is a reason WN rules California, that's simply the route structure, intra state and flying out of cali, AS has a long way to go to match up with them.
 
altbg
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 6:07 pm

SJC-SAN is a start. I really hope that this route will be successful for AS.
 
B747forever
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 6:22 pm

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
they run a California airline, based in Texas.

That is true. WNs intra-Calfironia route network is really impressive. Just take a look at their operations between the LA basin and the Bay Area. They basically serve all possible combinations of routes between BUR/LAX/SNA/ONT/LGB and SFO/OAK/SJC.
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william
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 6:35 pm

This is going to get nasty, SWA will not give up without a fight. It isn' t like it was easy for SWA to have success, they went up against stiffer competition than AS/Virgin, remember PSA and AirCal?
 
bjorn14
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 6:58 pm

Quoting william (Reply 4):

And WN beat back the Shuttle by United experiment back in the 90s and early 00s.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
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lightsaber
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 7:13 pm

I look forward to the competition in my home state.

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 1):
Then they better start filling in the blanks, there is a reason WN rules California, that's simply the route structure, intra state and flying out of cali, AS has a long way to go to match up with them.

VX's route structure is limited. While it will improve AS' presence in California, it isn't enough.

AS needs to connect to hubs going Eastward also. I'm not sure how they'll fill in that hole, but unless enough destinations are served, customers will have to go elsewhere.

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G500
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 7:19 pm

That's right.

Southwest trounced United's "shuttle by United" venture back in the 90s
 
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RWA380
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 7:22 pm

Quoting william (Reply 4):
, remember PSA and AirCal?

I'm not sure about WN's success on the West Coast had either of these carriers been flying today. There was a tremendous loyalty to both carriers at one time or another & because two majors (US Airways & American) respectively, came in & bought a small west coast carriers & almost immediately started to dismantle the operations, I don't think things would have been as possible for WN to take up the LA - SF corridor like they have. WN took on more routes as carriers like PS & OC disappeared.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 5):
And WN beat back the Shuttle by United experiment back in the 90s and early 00s.

That maybe, it was the frequent flyers with UA that laid waste to the Shuttle & Ted products. Especially those who already had mainline service with meals & drinks, to zero frills & bus riders in the sky as seatmates.
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dc10lover
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 7:27 pm

"remember PSA and AirCal?"

Yes i do. 2 great airlines now gone like so many others.

This is going to be interesting to watch. Airfares are about to get cheaper. And look at the routes flying out of California Alaska will have when they "rebrand" the Virgin America routes.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
flyby519
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 7:38 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 6):
AS needs to connect to hubs going Eastward also. I'm not sure how they'll fill in that hole, but unless enough destinations are served, customers will have to go elsewhere.

I completely agree, and think eventually B6/AS merger needs to happen for that hole to be filled. The B6 Mint product is expanding, and could eventually be used on all TCONs.
 
boilerla
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 8:41 pm

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 1):
Then they better start filling in the blanks, there is a reason WN rules California, that's simply the route structure, intra state and flying out of cali, AS has a long way to go to match up with them.

WN's route structure is a big help, but so is their policies. Our (large) tech company has 50-100 people flying LAX to the Bay Area (SJC, OAK or SFO) every day. It's not uncommon for a WN 737 to have 5-10 people from our company on it in the mornings. We book and rebook constantly as meeting schedules change; the change fees on other airlines would really add up. Our corporate travel policy is very lax and many people prefer UA when going TPAC, but almost everyone prefers WN for its schedule frequency and lax policies when traveling domestically especially intra-CA.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 9:17 pm

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 1):
Then they better start filling in the blanks, there is a reason WN rules California, that's simply the route structure, intra state and flying out of cali, AS has a long way to go to match up with them.
Quoting B747forever (Reply 3):
That is true. WNs intra-Calfironia route network is really impressive. Just take a look at their operations between the LA basin and the Bay Area. They basically serve all possible combinations of routes between BUR/LAX/SNA/ONT/LGB and SFO/OAK/SJC.

AS does have route gaps to fill in. WN's routes and schedules between the 2 major urban areas in the state is an advantage.

On the other hand AS already has flights out of all of those airports (except for LGB) plus has flights at Santa Rosa, Monterey, Santa Barbara, Fresno, Mammoth, and Palm Springs (with SCK pursuing a SCASD grant for new Alaska branded flights on OO).

Depending upon how AS ties things together and fills in the California route gaps, having the ability to serve the smaller cities in California gives them an opportunity to attract customers with travel needs that can't be served only on WN.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
wedgetail737
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 10:27 pm

Alaska tried to be California's airline at one time right after the Jet America acquisition. AS took those MD-80's and flew
them on a frequent runs between the Bay Area (namely OAK and SJC) and L.A. (namely BUR, ONT, LGB and SNA) with
Roy Orbison California Dreamin' theme.

Prior to CA Dreamin', AS had some CA flying like OAK-BUR, OAK-ONT, OAK-LGB, SJC-PSP, SJC-ONT, with 1X or 2X per
day.

If AS wants to dominate CA again or at least, give WN a run for their money, then they need to spread their CA service and
not just retain SFO and LAX.
 
wnflyguy
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 10:32 pm

California isn't SEA so AS will have a fight on it's hands.
Don't forget DL plans to build up LAX also.

I wish them Luck!

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
UA444
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 10:37 pm

Quoting G500 (Reply 7):
That's right.

Southwest trounced United's "shuttle by United" venture back in the 90s

Not totally. Shuttle was actually very successful for quite a number of years for UA. It was a lot of outside factors like the dot.com bubble burst in the 2000s and 9/11 that did Shuttle in. That and Shuttle's rising costs in 2000 after labor wanted back the concessions that made Shuttle work.
 
tmiw
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 10:38 pm

Quoting altbg (Reply 2):
SJC-SAN is a start. I really hope that this route will be successful for AS.

This. I can't wait for there to be a choice besides WN or fly to SFO instead.
 
IPFreely
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 10:45 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 14):

California isn't SEA so AS will have a fight on it's hands.
Don't forget DL plans to build up LAX also.

DL tried and failed against AS in SEA. Why would LAX be any different?
 
hiflyeras
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 10:54 pm

Quoting boilerla (Reply 11):
Our corporate travel policy is very lax and many people prefer UA when going TPAC, but almost everyone prefers WN for its schedule frequency and lax policies when traveling domestically especially intra-CA.

They'll love accruing miles they will actually want to redeem if flying AS....they have partner airlines offering world-wide service and even the LA Times says AS's mileage program is the best. WN has no international partners whatsoever.
 
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SANFan
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 10:56 pm

Despite the fact that many people seem to think that LA and SF are THE cities in the Golden State, there are other large metro areas in the state. These other cities were of little value or interest to Virgin, but WN and AS are VERY aware that there is more to California.

In fact, just this year, AS has publicly/"officially" begun referring to both SJC and SAN as AAG focus cities. When service between the 2 cities was announced in February, this is the title from the press release:

Quote:
AS Grows SJC Focus City with New Flying to SAN and SNA

Here's a link:
http://splash.alaskasworld.com/Newsr...s/ASstories/AS_20160217_085928.asp

And in an interview by AirlineWire.com with John Kirby, AS's new VP of Capacity Planning, in late April, he made this statement:

Quote:
"...recently we added n-s service from SJC to both SAN and SNA. So we view SAN and SJC as focus cities on our network. We want to serve the important destinations for those cities as well."

Here's a link:
http://airlinewire.com/high-flyer-in...ity-planning-alaska-airlines/26213

WN has obviously set up shop big-time in CA. And that's not going to change.

Speaking of SAN and WN and only their intrastate flying, up until now, they have had THE monopoly on routes to SJC, OAK & SMF, and have shared SAN-SFO with 2 other cx. I would be quite surprised if AS does not start either SMF or OAK soon, if not both, and of course AS will inherit SAN-SFO when the VX deal is complete. (I personally would expect to see SAN-SMF next as I feel those premium seats AS can offer on their fleet might really appeal to the many "important" people flying in that market.)

And expect to see additional service like this well before anything happens with Virgin.

I'm sure there will be lots of additional intra-CA flying as well but I certainly do hope (and expect) to see lots of great things from AAG in SAN and the rest of California in the near future.

bb
 
RJNUT
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 11:00 pm

Quoting boilerla (Reply 11):
Our corporate travel policy is very lax and many people prefer UA when going TPAC, but almost everyone prefers WN for its schedule frequency and lax policies when traveling domestically especially intra-CA.

exactly.!


I like AS , but don't t wake this gorilla ! (and WN works for our company for similar reasons !!)
 
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LAXintl
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Sun May 15, 2016 11:37 pm

Sorry don't see it happening.

SWA has built an amazing franchise in California. Its the #1 carrier at every airport it currently serves except LAX and SFO. Southwest has literally become the company airplane for many in the state.

The shear number of markets, their frequency, simply cannot be replicated for host of reasons. Its taken SWA 30 years to get to where it is in the state.

Oh, and as also mentioned prior by a poster, the ease of doing business with and liberal travel/change policy is something Southwest has pretty much entire industry beat for the business segment.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
32andBelow
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 12:31 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
Oh, and as also mentioned prior by a poster, the ease of doing business with and liberal travel/change policy is something Southwest has pretty much entire industry beat for the business segment.

You don't think AS or DL or UA or AA or anyone would give a tech company buying 100 tickets a day favorable change rates? Don't be dumb.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 12:58 am

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 22):
You don't think AS or DL or UA or AA or anyone would give a tech company buying 100 tickets a day favorable change rates? Don't be dumb.

And yet, they have not.
Frankly the manner the majors are set up, their IT, and policies mean they have to jump through many hoops, and create lots of exceptions to even come close.

WN on the other hand is extremely simple. A client can jump on any flight anytime basically, nothing complex. Change a ticket 10 times and not an issue.

This is nothing new for WN. I had a client back in the 1990s, that had pre-printed ticket stock, like a train ticket with simply the company name, and route on it. Employees were given these and could come and go as they wished on SWA flights. Nothing complex, no pricing issues, no change issues. If you wanted you could make a reservation to hold a seat, otherwise just show up at the airport and turn in the ticket and off you went assuming there was an open seat.

[Edited 2016-05-15 17:59:17]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
32andBelow
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 1:13 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
And yet, they have not.
Frankly the manner the majors are set up, their IT, and policies mean they have to jump through many hoops, and create lots of exceptions to even come close.

WN on the other hand is extremely simple. A client can jump on any flight anytime basically, nothing complex. Change a ticket 10 times and not an issue.

This is nothing new for WN. I had a client back in the 1990s, that had pre-printed ticket stock, like a train ticket with simply the company name, and route on it. Employees were given these and could come and go as they wished on SWA flights. Nothing complex, no pricing issues, no change issues. If you wanted you could make a reservation to hold a seat, otherwise just show up at the airport and turn in the ticket and off you went assuming there was an open seat.

IDK I know AS will do whatever is necessary. DL did a lot in SEA to grab corporate.
 
atsiang
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 1:22 am

I do wish AS well but they have a huge mountain to climb. The lack of baggage fees and no change fees are the two things that WN has an advantage over and the reason why I fly WN. If AS want to compete they have to lose the baggage fees or reduce it to a very low amount and eliminate the change fees. I recently flew AS and was so impressed with their service and would like to fly them more often but based on price if they are equal, WN will get my business.
 
32andBelow
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 1:23 am

Quoting atsiang (Reply 25):

I do wish AS well but they have a huge mountain to climb. The lack of baggage fees and no change fees are the two things that WN has an advantage over and the reason why I fly WN. If AS want to compete they have to lose the baggage fees or reduce it to a very low amount and eliminate the change fees. I recently flew AS and was so impressed with their service and would like to fly them more often but based on price if they are equal, WN will get my business.

They could do something like Club 49 for CA. It wouldn't be unprecedented.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 2:10 am

This will in a round about way spur another round of "AS and WN should merge" threads.

Kinda funny from a superficial point of view, an airline named after Alaska (a cold and snowy state) wants to be the "go-to" airline for California (a warm and sunny state).
When wasn't America great?


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RJNUT
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 2:10 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 22):You don't think AS or DL or UA or AA or anyone would give a tech company buying 100 tickets a day favorable change rates? Don't be dumb.
And yet, they have not.
Frankly the manner the majors are set up, their IT, and policies mean they have to jump through many hoops, and create lots of exceptions to even come close.

its likened to an obstacle course to get these "exceptions" put into play . only SW has managed to "Keep it Simple , Stupid"! they do have some issues but the Intra -California network/scheduling is not one of them!
 
grbauc
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 2:51 am

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
“We have never fallen out of love with California,” said Andrew Watterson, Southwest's vice president of network and revenue.

I would debate that and strongly disagree. In the Socal region they retreated/Reduced many many of there flights up and down the coast from ONT, BUR even SNA to SAC,OAK,SJC after they chased of the other airlines and have raised the prices to near the old Legacy prices. ONT to OAK now costs $4-500 with bare minimum schedules and no competition week of travel. But Lax where there is plenty of competition I can get last min fares for approx $250-350 the same or more then AA,DL etc out of LAX.

They now run the table here in California and out of secondary airports the Love they use to give CA with price and schedule is not longer close to when they first started dating us...
 
grbauc
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 2:57 am

One of the reasons for WN success Is the lack of a change fee. On tickets that cost Under $500 to have a $200 change fee is insane. I really wish the other airlines would lower or get rid of the crazy change fee's
 
ASFlyer
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 3:13 am

I have no idea what Alaska has up it's sleeve but honestly, I don't know how much baggage fees really make a difference for intra-California flying. Most people are carrying their bags on because their trips are fairly short in nature anyway. If it was going to drive significant business I imagine Alaska could waive a bag fee. Change fees may make a bigger difference for business travel and Alaska could negotiate with corporate accounts or just make a blanket waiver for all intra-California travel. At this point, nothing is off the table. I imagine that if Alaska is planning on gunning for California travelers, they'll research the market such that they can be competitive. Frankly, UA has a large intra-California business and doesn't seem to have much of a problem.
 
penguins
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 3:36 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 19):
Despite the fact that many people seem to think that LA and SF are THE cities in the Golden State, there are other large metro areas in the state. These other cities were of little value or interest to Virgin, but WN and AS are VERY aware that there is more to California.

I disagree, the only non LA or SF metro area airports in CA that WN servers are SAN and SMF. No service whatsoever to airports like PSP or BFL that would show WN is "aware" of California. At least AS has PSP.
 
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 4:32 am

With first-bag fees waived for AS Visa Signature card holders and change/reissue fees waived for all MVP Gold elite members and above, AS is actually quite competitive and will gain a good following in CA. With the VX acquisition they'll already be #1 in terms of seat share on the West Coast; that's not a bad place to start building from.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
32andBelow
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 4:34 am

Quoting penguins (Reply 32):
I disagree, the only non LA or SF metro area airports in CA that WN servers are SAN and SMF. No service whatsoever to airports like PSP or BFL that would show WN is "aware" of California. At least AS has PSP.

SBA, STS, FAT, and now they have codeshare service to CEC, RDD, ACV
 
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DocLightning
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 4:40 am

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):


The parent company of Alaska Airlines is rushing forward with a $2.6-billion deal to acquire Virgin America in hopes of becoming the predominant airline of the Golden State — and the entire West Coast.

They'll have some work to do to beat UA.

Quoting atsiang (Reply 25):
The lack of baggage fees and no change fees are the two things that WN has an advantage over and the reason why I fly WN. If AS want to compete they have to lose the baggage fees or reduce it to a very low amount and eliminate the change fees.

What AS has is a guarantee that your paid bags will be on the carousel within 20 minutes of your aircraft's arrival. And that is no small thing.
-Doc Lightning-

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a380787
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 4:42 am

WN is only the "go to" airline for more niche airport pairs. On the single most crucial intra Cali market, LAX-SFO, they're pretty much in line with the competition.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 5:03 am

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 17):
DL tried and failed against AS in SEA. Why would LAX be any different?

Huh? That's like calling the game in the second inning.

Quoting HiflyerAS (Reply 18):
WN has no international partners whatsoever.

Yet.

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MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
peanuts
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 6:18 am

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f....html

Ugh. Who writes this stuff? In several paragraphs, the author (Hugo Martin) and his sources keep gushing about the wonderful IFE and mood lighting on a carrier that, finally, had its dreamy life cut short courtesy of AS. What's the point dwelling over things that will be gone soon? Besides, IFE and mood lighting won't beat WN. Any. Day. The author is not even following basic airline economics.
AS knows how to operate an airline, and it's definitely NOT VX style.

WN has got this down. They won't be retrenching due to moves AS will be making. WN is the juggernaut in Cali.

And before even attempting to take on WN, it has UA, AA and DL to contend with as well.
DL is keeping pace and they won't let AS get too far ahead, especially if AS and AA think they can take on WN, UA, and DL together.

I'm a little concerned actually about this AS hubris. What they really wanted from VX: SFO and LAX gates.
So?
Just getting the gates makes the rest of this fairytale not automatically just happen. Too many outside influences are going to throw AS off its game potentially. West Coast is simply highly competitive, already.

DL would want nothing more than for AS to get embroiled in a slugfest in California (at SEA's expense, potentially).
Remember, UA, AA, WN, and DL know exactly what they have and want on the West Coast. AS is still defining it. Huge difference.
 
uberflieger
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 6:29 am

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 1):
there is a reason WN rules California, that's simply the route structure, intra state and flying out of cali, AS has a long way to go to match up with them

Yet, once you combine Alaska's and Mileage Plan / codeshare partner American's networks you got the 2nd best intra CA, the largest West Coast / USA coverage and you can redeem mileage to go almost anywhere in the world.

Quoting altbg (Reply 2):
(filling in the blanks) SJC-SAN is a start
Quoting SANFan (Reply 19):
AS has publicly/"officially" begun referring to both SJC and SAN as AAG focus cities

  
Both SAN & SJC are likely to see increased AS service.

Delta turning on and threatening Alaska has awaken a fierce competitor. AS has lower operating cost than all its major rivals, allowing it to add P2P flying the legacies simply can't and even successfully battling Southwest. Looking forward to seeing where this is all going.

  
 
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EA CO AS
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 7:51 am

The exception I take with this article is that it makes it seem like AS intends to take over CA. While that's a nice thought for those of us who love AS, it's simply not going to happen.

The intent of the VX purchase was, simply, to become the premier airline on the West Coast. Right now AS is the go-to airline for people who live in WA, OR, AK, and even, arguably, HI. Odds are that if you're from one of those places, AS will be one of your first choices if you need to go somewhere.

That's not the case today for people living in CA. So how do you get there? You do that by:

o Running the safest, most reliable operation
o Offering the best customer service
o Having a significant presence to the top markets

AS gets that third puzzle piece in CA by buying VX. They become #2 in market share at SFO overnight, and become relevant at LAX, a market where no one carrier dominates the traffic.

And with the combined orders/options that AS/VX/QX have with Boeing, Airbus, and Embraer, they've got the right equipment - and operating costs - to potentially become that go-to carrier for anyone on the West Coast.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 38):
DL would want nothing more than for AS to get embroiled in a slugfest in California (at SEA's expense, potentially).
Remember, UA, AA, WN, and DL know exactly what they have and want on the West Coast. AS is still defining it. Huge difference.

UA, AA, WN and DL are all fighting for different things at LAX. AS doesn't want to dominate there; they just want to have a sizable, relevant presence there - and they will on day one of combined operations.

With none of that impacting SEA in any way, I might add.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
bjorn14
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 9:32 am

If I was AS I would never have made this declaration publically. Just quietly go about adding routes here and there and before you know it Chester is the go to guy.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
neutronstar73
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Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:57 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 12:57 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 22):

You don't think AS or DL or UA or AA or anyone would give a tech company buying 100 tickets a day favorable change rates? Don't be dumb.

WN is successful because it isn't just business customers that they give favorable change rates. It's everyone.

And if other companies haven't done so, why not, already? Southwest wins because of more than change rates; its everything that they do, from frequencies to "free" bags to no-change fees. I mean, for me flying from my adopted home (SAN) to real home (LAS), I had ridiculous number of flights to choose from, at all hours of the day. Same thing if I was in LAX and wanted to get back to LAS; Southwest basically has a blanket covering the entire SoCal-Southern Nevada corridor that it was basically a wash between flying and driving. They have that market covered so well that I think America's Pest...err America West basically gave up direct SAN-LAS service (basically required a PHX stop) and I think, since the US Airways and American consolidation have surrendered that market.



AS has a long way to go. I'm looking forward to the battle, though. I'll miss the Virgin America brand...I fly them often, too.
 
BestWestern
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 1:14 pm

In the takeover documentation AS discussed the 'west coast market'. Is there such a thing? like combining Florida and New York as one market. I can't see the linkages between a California market and a Washington market - very different beasts. Is a Texas / California market closer?
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 3:44 pm

Quoting penguins (Reply 32):
I disagree, the only non LA or SF metro area airports in CA that WN servers are SAN and SMF. No service whatsoever to airports like PSP or BFL that would show WN is "aware" of California. At least AS has PSP.
Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 34):
SBA, STS, FAT, and now they have codeshare service to CEC, RDD, ACV

Actually AS has more ariports than that just with AS branded flights, not including the PenAir Northern California stations. As I posted up in reply 12:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 12):
On the other hand AS already has flights out of all of those airports (except for LGB) plus has flights at Santa Rosa, Monterey, Santa Barbara, Fresno, Mammoth, and Palm Springs (with SCK pursuing a SCASD grant for new Alaska branded flights on OO).
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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IrishAyes
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Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 3:58 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 38):
Ugh. Who writes this stuff? In several paragraphs, the author (Hugo Martin) and his sources keep gushing about the wonderful IFE and mood lighting on a carrier that, finally, had its dreamy life cut short courtesy of AS. What's the point dwelling over things that will be gone soon? Besides, IFE and mood lighting won't beat WN. Any. Day. The author is not even following basic airline economics.

  . its mostly click-bait for non-industry specialists. it will generate some buzz among people and get people talking, but not much else beyond that. most of the article is distracting.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 38):
I'm a little concerned actually about this AS hubris. What they really wanted from VX: SFO and LAX gates.
So?
Just getting the gates makes the rest of this fairytale not automatically just happen. Too many outside influences are going to throw AS off its game potentially. West Coast is simply highly competitive, already.

Beyond SFO and LAX, there are also valuable assets at DAL, LGA and DCA that AS will gain.

But yes, I think there is some consensus, based on AS' tight-lipped answers during their Q1 earnings call, that they are very much in the, "figure it out as we go" process with regards to the VX acquisition.
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 24520
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 4:10 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 19):
Despite the fact that many people seem to think that LA and SF are THE cities in the Golden State, there are other large metro areas in the state. These other cities were of little value or interest to Virgin, but WN and AS are VERY aware that there is more to California.

Sure there is more to California than LA and SF, but to a great degree its inconsequential.

LA & SF basins represent 83% of the 202 million air travel in the state in 2015.

WN for example with its airport coverage in California covers 95% of the market in states enplanements.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
PlanesNTrains
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 4:48 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 40):
The exception I take with this article is that it makes it seem like AS intends to take over CA. While that's a nice thought for those of us who love AS, it's simply not going to happen.

Ya, it almost comes off as trying to provoke something by stating more than is really there.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 43):
In the takeover documentation AS discussed the 'west coast market'. Is there such a thing?

Sure. People in Washington/Oregon travel to California - and reverse - a ton. There are clear business, leisure, and VFR ties linking the pacific northwest and the southwest. I think it's that market that they are describing when they say "west coast market".

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 5:19 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 45):
Beyond SFO and LAX, there are also valuable assets at DAL, LGA and DCA that AS will gain.

Other than DCA-SFO, most of the VX DCA+LGA assets are intra-perimeter, which are pretty much disconnected from all the AS hubs, sans the not-so-successful VX DAL experiment.

The DAL gates are far more useful when linked up to SEA PDX SAN instead of going east, chopping DAL - LGA DCA LAS in the process. The short-to-medium term option for DCA+LGA orphaned slots might be to lease it out while retaining underlying ownership.

There's always the safe but boring band aid solution of running LGA DCA - FLL until they sort things out.
 
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cosyr
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RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 5:26 pm

I don't know how anyone can be California's airline if they don't fly between LAX and SFO. I know they will get this route again once they absorb Virgin, but they gave up the market in the past, they could again. Sometimes you have to be willing to lose money on a route like that to gain the loyalty of FF's that want you to fly every route they need.

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