Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4781
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 5:37 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):

   AS will certainly have their work cut out for them if they really intend to take on WN.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
WN on the other hand is extremely simple. A client can jump on any flight anytime basically, nothing complex. Change a ticket 10 times and not an issue.

That's what keeps me coming back to WN time and time again. The free bags are a great perk, and they certainly factor into my buying decision, but the fact that I can change a ticket as many times as I want to without paying a change fee, is a HUGE plus in WN's corner. Last year, I decided to use the remaining miles in my DL account to zero it out. It had been about 8 years since I'd last flown DL. I considered changing it, and they wanted the change fee even for an award ticket...

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 42):
WN is successful because it isn't just business customers that they give favorable change rates. It's everyone.

Precisely!
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
User avatar
IrishAyes
Posts: 2425
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 7:31 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 48):
Other than DCA-SFO, most of the VX DCA+LGA assets are intra-perimeter, which are pretty much disconnected from all the AS hubs, sans the not-so-successful VX DAL experiment.

The DAL gates are far more useful when linked up to SEA PDX SAN instead of going east, chopping DAL - LGA DCA LAS in the process. The short-to-medium term option for DCA+LGA orphaned slots might be to lease it out while retaining underlying ownership.

There's always the safe but boring band aid solution of running LGA DCA - FLL until they sort things out.

yah, i wasn't referring so much as to the potential routes they could add from these gates, but rather the value of the gates themselves.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 7:51 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 33):
With the VX acquisition they'll already be #1 in terms of seat share on the West Coast; that's not a bad place to start building from.

Can they retain that customer base?   
"Up the Irons!"
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15699
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 8:35 pm

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 52):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 33): With the VX acquisition they'll already be #1 in terms of seat share on the West Coast; that's not a bad place to start building from.
Can they retain that customer base?

That's the big question, obviously, but there are huge steps being taken to assure that.

And no, I can't go into more detail.  
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
TWA85
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:06 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 8:43 pm

Here is a break down of the WN network that AS/VX will have to compete with. AS/VX definitely has a lot of work to do if they want to become California's 'Go To' airline.

WN Intra-California Routes

BUR-OAK/SFO/SJC/SMF
LAX-OAK/SFO/SJC/SMF
LGB-OAK
OAK-BUR/LAX/LGB/ONT/SAN/SNA
ONT-OAK/SJC/SMF
SAN-OAK/SFO/SJC/SMF
SFO-BUR/LAX/SAN/SNA
SJC-BUR/LAX/ONT/SAN/SNA
SMF-BUR/LAX/ONT/SAN/SNA
SNA-OAK/SFO/SJC/SMF


WN California Inter-State Routes

BUR-DAL/DEN/LAS/PDX/PHX
LAX-ABQ/ATL/AUS/BNA/BWI/DAL/DEN/ELP/HOU/IND/LAS/MCI/MDW/MKE/MSY/OMA/PDX/PHX/PIT/RNO/SAT/SLC/STL/TUS
OAK-ABQ/ATL/AUS/BNA/BOI/BWI/CMH/DAL/DEN/GEG/HOU/LAS/MCI/MDW/MSY/PDX/PHX/RNO/SEA/SLC/STL
ONT-DEN/LAS/PDX/PHX/MDW
SAN-ABQ/ATL/AUS/BNA/BWI/DAL/DEN/HOU/LAS/MCI/MCO/MDW/MKE/MSY/PDX/PHX/RNO/SAT/SEA/STL/TUS
SFO-DAL/DEN/LAS/MDW/MKE/PHX/STL
SJC-AUS/DAL/DEN/LAS/MDW/PDX/PHX/SEA
SMF-BOI/BWI/DAL/DEN/LAS/MDW/PDX/PHX/SEA
SNA-AUS/DAL/DEN/HOU/LAS/MCI/MDW/PDX/PHX/SEA/STL


WN California International Routes

LAX-LIR
SNA-MEX/PVR/SJD
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 9:48 pm

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 54):

Here is a break down of the WN network that AS/VX will have to compete with. AS/VX definitely has a lot of work to do if they want to become California's 'Go To' airline.

WN Intra-California Routes

BUR-OAK/SFO/SJC/SMF
LAX-OAK/SFO/SJC/SMF
LGB-OAK
OAK-BUR/LAX/LGB/ONT/SAN/SNA
ONT-OAK/SJC/SMF
SAN-OAK/SFO/SJC/SMF
SFO-BUR/LAX/SAN/SNA
SJC-BUR/LAX/ONT/SAN/SNA
SMF-BUR/LAX/ONT/SAN/SNA
SNA-OAK/SFO/SJC/SMF


WN California Inter-State Routes

BUR-DAL/DEN/LAS/PDX/PHX
LAX-ABQ/ATL/AUS/BNA/BWI/DAL/DEN/ELP/HOU/IND/LAS/MCI/MDW/MKE/MSY/OMA/PDX/PHX/PIT/RNO/SAT/SLC/STL/TUS
OAK-ABQ/ATL/AUS/BNA/BOI/BWI/CMH/DAL/DEN/GEG/HOU/LAS/MCI/MDW/MSY/PDX/PHX/RNO/SEA/SLC/STL
ONT-DEN/LAS/PDX/PHX/MDW
SAN-ABQ/ATL/AUS/BNA/BWI/DAL/DEN/HOU/LAS/MCI/MCO/MDW/MKE/MSY/PDX/PHX/RNO/SAT/SEA/STL/TUS
SFO-DAL/DEN/LAS/MDW/MKE/PHX/STL
SJC-AUS/DAL/DEN/LAS/MDW/PDX/PHX/SEA
SMF-BOI/BWI/DAL/DEN/LAS/MDW/PDX/PHX/SEA
SNA-AUS/DAL/DEN/HOU/LAS/MCI/MDW/PDX/PHX/SEA/STL


WN California International Routes

LAX-LIR
SNA-MEX/PVR/SJD

That's awesome. Thanks for taking the time to compose it all.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1715
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 9:50 pm

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 54):
WN Intra-California Routes

BUR-OAK/SFO/SJC/SMF
LAX-OAK/SFO/SJC/SMF
LGB-OAK
OAK-BUR/LAX/LGB/ONT/SAN/SNA
ONT-OAK/SJC/SMF
SAN-OAK/SFO/SJC/SMF
SFO-BUR/LAX/SAN/SNA
SJC-BUR/LAX/ONT/SAN/SNA
SMF-BUR/LAX/ONT/SAN/SNA
SNA-OAK/SFO/SJC/SMF


WN California Inter-State Routes

BUR-DAL/DEN/LAS/PDX/PHX
LAX-ABQ/ATL/AUS/BNA/BWI/DAL/DEN/ELP/HOU/IND/LAS/MCI/MDW/MKE/MSY/OMA/PDX/PHX/PIT/RNO/SAT/SLC/STL/TUS
OAK-ABQ/ATL/AUS/BNA/BOI/BWI/CMH/DAL/DEN/GEG/HOU/LAS/MCI/MDW/MSY/PDX/PHX/RNO/SEA/SLC/STL
ONT-DEN/LAS/PDX/PHX/MDW
SAN-ABQ/ATL/AUS/BNA/BWI/DAL/DEN/HOU/LAS/MCI/MCO/MDW/MKE/MSY/PDX/PHX/RNO/SAT/SEA/STL/TUS
SFO-DAL/DEN/LAS/MDW/MKE/PHX/STL
SJC-AUS/DAL/DEN/LAS/MDW/PDX/PHX/SEA
SMF-BOI/BWI/DAL/DEN/LAS/MDW/PDX/PHX/SEA
SNA-AUS/DAL/DEN/HOU/LAS/MCI/MDW/PDX/PHX/SEA/STL

AS/VX intrastate:

SAN-MRY/FAT/STS/SFO/SJC/MMH
SNA-STS/SJC
LAX-MRY/MMH/STS/SFO
PSP-SFO
SFO-PSP/LAX/SAN
SJC-SNA/SAN
FAT-SAN
STS-/SAN/LAX/STS
MRY-LAX/SAN


AS/VX interstate:

SAN-SEA/PDX/BOI/SLC/BOS/MCO/OGG/LIH/KOA/HNL
SNA-SEA/PDX/RNO
LAX-SEA/PDX/ANC/MFR/GUC/SUN/SLC/OGG/HNL/MCO/FLL/JFK/BOS/IAD/EWR/ORD/DAL
BUR-SEA/PDX
ONT-SEA/PDX
OAK-SEA/PDX/HNL/LIH/OGG/KOA
SJC-SEA/PDX/RNO/BOI/EUG/SLC/HNL/LIH/KOA/OGG
SMF-SEA/PDX/BOI/OGG
SFO-SEA/PDX/LAS/DAL/DEN/AUS/ORD/FLL/JFK/BOS/IAD/DCA/EWR/HNL/OGG
FAT-SEA/PDX
STS-SEA/PDX


AS/VX international:

SAN-SJD/PVR
LAX-ZLO/ZIH/GDL/PVR/MZT/SJD/LTO/LIR/SJO/CUN
SJC-GDL/SJD
SFO-PVR/SJD/CUN

AS codeshares:

CEC-PDX
ACV-PDX
RDD-PDX

I may have missed a couple. Clearly, AS/VX has a long way to go to reach Southwest breadth in the west, but there are strengths and weaknesses. I don't think you'll ever see AS in every market WN is in, but AS/VX together already has a great network within and to/from California. If they continue to build upon that they will become a huge competitor for any airline flying to/from/within California to major markets around the U.S.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 10:02 pm

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 56):
AS/VX intrastate:

SAN-MRY/FAT/STS/SFO/SJC/MMH
SNA-STS/SJC
LAX-MRY/MMH/STS/SFO
PSP-SFO
SFO-PSP/LAX/SAN
SJC-SNA/SAN
FAT-SAN
STS-/SAN/LAX/STS
MRY-LAX/SAN

A very different list than WN's. Much lower demand but much higher variety.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PSAjet17
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:50 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 10:36 pm

Since there was mention of the battle for California by PSA and AirCal...here is a blast from the past.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...g45d6&client=mv-google&app=desktop
 
airzona11
Posts: 1745
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 11:03 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 57):
A very different list than WN's. Much lower demand but much higher variety.

Very good point.

To add to that, WN is much more friendly and adapted to business travelers and AS is more leisure.
And WN has free entertainment
And WN has free bags

Interstate they are solid and great to the Islands. But they are negligible interstate.

OneWorld flyers will be helped by this tho (SkyTeam too, but DL isnt too keen on not flying their metal, not that AA is any more but still).
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8138
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 11:20 pm

WN became WILDLY successful once they moved into California in the middle 1980's a number of years after the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 ended the requirement that flights between California cities had to be run by a California-based airline. Given WN's operating cost structure, no wonder why they could substantially undercut the pricing of PSA and AirCal---and eventually became the dominant intra-California airline, which is true in 2016 even with DL aggressively getting into the intra-California market using 717-200's.
 
psa188
Posts: 661
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:02 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 11:25 pm

WN just announced a press conference in the SJC Terminal B Airline Ticketing Lobby to announce new routes this Thursday @ 10.
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5385
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 11:46 pm

Big thanx to TWA85 and ASFlyer for those lists. It's interesting to see it all spelled out so nicely.

I do believe there is plenty of business in CA for several airlines to co-exist -- which of course they already do -- and I certainly don't think AAG has any plans to replace WN as the largest seat-provider in the Golden State.

But I do think AS can grow their business big-time in the state given their fleet makeup, premium seating, number of frequent flyers in CA, as well as their solid network that already exists in the state..

BTW, I don't know if anyone else has noticed but AS has already added some frequency between SAN and SJC since the service was announced in February and prior to the start-up of the route! I find that to be encouraging.

I hope (and expect) we will see lots of new and exciting AS routes to/from California, long before anything formal happens with Virgin. What I am curious about is if we will see any moves by WN, beyond the expected pricing wars that are inevitable?

bb
 
tortugamon
Posts: 6795
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:14 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 11:48 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 38):
WN has got this down. They won't be retrenching due to moves AS will be making. WN is the juggernaut in Cali.

And before even attempting to take on WN, it has UA, AA and DL to contend with as well.

I agree with a lot of what you have to say but one thing to note is that VX/AS will have much more international transfer/codeshare agreements than WN will. They could rival DL/UA for west coast international transfer feed. The presence of premium class seating coudl differentiate from WN as well.

while I agree that on day 1 AS/VX won't be the biggest player on the West Coast I do think they have the building blocks to accomplish it especially if WN won't reach codeshare agreements with international players; something I do think will change.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 41):
If I was AS I would never have made this declaration publically. Just quietly go about adding routes here and there and before you know it Chester is the go to guy.

Its pretty obvious to everyone involved that this would be the plan. Its not a secret and this is a good way to gain some publicity. Something they are going to desperately need.

tortugamon
 
PSAjet17
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:50 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 11:55 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 60):
WN became WILDLY successful once they moved into California in the middle 1980's a number of years after the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 ended the requirement that flights between California cities had to be run by a California-based airline. Given WN's operating cost structure, no wonder why they could substantially undercut the pricing of PSA and AirCal---and eventually became the dominant intra-California airline, which is true in 2016 even with DL aggressively getting into the intra-California market using 717-200's.

There was no requirement that flights between California cities had to be on a California based airline. PSA and AirCal were under the regulations of the California Public Utilities Commission for route and fare approval and Southwest was a Texas Intrastate airline that was regulated in the same way by a Texas Commission as opposed to getting approval from the Civil Aeronautics Board. With the passage of the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978, intrastate airlines like PSA, AirCal and Southwest could establish routes outside of their state. Southwest's operating structure was very similar to PSA's since they studied PSA and its operation before their own startup in the 60s. When PSA and AirCal were absorbed into US Air and American respectively, their flights and routes were reduced by the new parent company which had a higher operational cost and that left the door open for Southwest to expand into California and the West (which was still using their original operations model, just flying to more cities.
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1594
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Mon May 16, 2016 11:56 pm

Quoting psa188 (Reply 61):

Currently serve from San Jose: Austin, Burbank, Chicago–Midway, Dallas–Love, Denver, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Ontario, Orange County, Phoenix–Sky Harbor, Portland (OR), San Diego, Seattle/Tacoma

Will more routes be outside California from San Jose?
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1715
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Tue May 17, 2016 12:18 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 56):
AS/VX intrastate:

SAN-MRY/FAT/STS/SFO/SJC/MMH
SNA-STS/SJC
LAX-MRY/MMH/STS/SFO
PSP-SFO
SFO-PSP/LAX/SAN
SJC-SNA/SAN
FAT-SAN
STS-/SAN/LAX/STS
MRY-LAX/SAN


AS/VX interstate:

SAN-SEA/PDX/BOI/SLC/BOS/MCO/OGG/LIH/KOA/HNL
SNA-SEA/PDX/RNO
LAX-SEA/PDX/ANC/MFR/GUC/SUN/SLC/OGG/HNL/MCO/FLL/JFK/BOS/IAD/EWR/ORD/DAL
BUR-SEA/PDX
ONT-SEA/PDX
OAK-SEA/PDX/HNL/LIH/OGG/KOA
SJC-SEA/PDX/RNO/BOI/EUG/SLC/HNL/LIH/KOA/OGG
SMF-SEA/PDX/BOI/OGG
SFO-SEA/PDX/LAS/DAL/DEN/AUS/ORD/FLL/JFK/BOS/IAD/DCA/EWR/HNL/OGG
FAT-SEA/PDX
STS-SEA/PDX


AS/VX international:

SAN-SJD/PVR
LAX-ZLO/ZIH/GDL/PVR/MZT/SJD/LTO/LIR/SJO/CUN
SJC-GDL/SJD
SFO-PVR/SJD/CUN

AS codeshares:

CEC-PDX
ACV-PDX
RDD-PDX

I forgot to include

SBA-SEA/PDX
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Tue May 17, 2016 1:02 am

Quoting dc10lover (Reply 65):
Will more routes be outside California from San Jose?

The only other CA destination that they serve that isn't served from SJC is LGB. I doubt that they are adding that but it's possible.

GEG? RNO? STL? SJO?

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Prost
Posts: 2570
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Tue May 17, 2016 1:05 am

Alaska has a lot going on. we're not quite at the level of a multi front war, but their executives must be working overtime.
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5385
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Tue May 17, 2016 1:57 am

Quoting psa188 (Reply 61):
WN just announced a press conference in the SJC Terminal B Airline Ticketing Lobby to announce new routes this Thursday @ 10.

That is, coincidentally, the date of the next WN system schedule release, the Winter/Holiday one, to be effective Nov 5 thru Jan 4, 2017.

There could be some other surprises around the network as well...

(WN has known since at least February that AS was entering the SJC-SAN market this summer so we'll see if 'it's on'...)

bb
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5385
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Tue May 17, 2016 2:19 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 67):
GEG? RNO? STL? SJO?

I would also add SJC-BOI and SJC-BWI to your list. And possibly even Mexico, such as Cabo?

bb
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Tue May 17, 2016 2:33 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 70):
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 67):
GEG? RNO? STL? SJO?

I would also add SJC-BOI and SJC-BWI to your list. And possibly even Mexico, such as Cabo?

Oops - meant SJD and not SJO.  

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15699
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Tue May 17, 2016 2:55 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 63):
I agree that on day 1 AS/VX won't be the biggest player on the West Coast

Actually, they will have the largest seat share on the West Coast on day 1.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1594
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Tue May 17, 2016 8:30 am

AS battling against DL in SEA at the same time AS battling against WN in California.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15699
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Tue May 17, 2016 9:31 am

Quoting dc10lover (Reply 73):
AS battling against DL in SEA

That battle is over; AS hasn't lost one percentage point of market share to DL, and SEA is maxed out in terms of capacity.

Quoting dc10lover (Reply 73):
battling against WN in California

AS isn't aiming to dethrone WN in California; just to position themselves to get a nice share of the traffic (#2 market share in SFO overnight, a now-relevant #5 at an LAX that isn't dominated by any one carrier, etc) with excellent growth opportunities.

People need to stop making this about AS vs. WN, because the only place that's true is in the mind of the reporter who wrote this piece.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
tortugamon
Posts: 6795
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:14 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Tue May 17, 2016 8:32 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 72):
Actually, they will have the largest seat share on the West Coast on day 1.

Including SEA and PDX I could see how that could be the case but CA-only should be WN by a fair margin.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 74):
People need to stop making this about AS vs. WN, because the only place that's true is in the mind of the reporter who wrote this piece.

For inner-west coast travel I think WN will be AS's biggest competition. Certainly not transcontinental nor Hawaii but inter west coast for sure. There are a lot of business travelers that like WN frequency and don't mind giving up F-class for such a short flight. Although WN has increased in price they do have a healthy share of leisure travel as well.

tortugamon
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Tue May 17, 2016 9:03 pm

A "go to" airline for a business passenger should be more than just exhausting every permutation between LA Basin / SF Bay / LAS / PHX.

At some point business travelers would actually be demanding things like NYC PHL BOS MSP DTW MIA/FLL nonstops (I'm excluding DC here since they nonstop to BWI but that's also the furthest WAS airport from the National Mall)

And once in a while, those business travelers would also like to take their family on family vacations to HNL OGG MCO CUN etc.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15699
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Tue May 17, 2016 9:08 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 76):
(I'm excluding DC here since they nonstop to BWI but that's also the furthest WAS airport from the National Mall)

You do know AS flies nonstop to DCA from SEA, PDX, and LAX - right?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15699
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Tue May 17, 2016 9:22 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 76):
A "go to" airline for a business passenger should be more than just exhausting every permutation between LA Basin / SF Bay / LAS / PHX.

At some point business travelers would actually be demanding things like NYC PHL BOS MSP DTW MIA/FLL nonstops

On day one, a combined AS/VX will serve the top 10 nonstop markets from SFO, and 8 of the top 10 nonstop markets from LAX. With the new equipment coming online, those numbers will only increase.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 76):
And once in a while, those business travelers would also like to take their family on family vacations to HNL OGG MCO CUN etc.

And a combined AS/VX can take you to all of them from SEA/SFO/LAX - all nonstop.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Tue May 17, 2016 10:24 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 78):

I'm talking about the other airline. I know AS+VX has those.
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1594
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 1:59 am

Do you think the very first thing that AS & VX should do is "code share"?
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15699
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 2:53 am

Quoting dc10lover (Reply 80):
Do you think the very first thing that AS & VX should do is "code share"?

Following in the best practices of other recent M&A activity in the industry, it's likely that there would be a one-way codeshare where the AS code is applied to all VX-operated flights, with AS agents being able to sell tickets on VX-operated, AS-designated flights.

I'd guess that VX flights can and will still be sold through virginamerica.com, with AS and VX flights being sold through alaskaair.com. And eventually, you'd see the VX side of the operation drawn down in terms of sales activity until SOC is received.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1594
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 3:47 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 81):

Ok thanks. With all the LAX gates AS will have this will really help make AS be a major player inside California.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15699
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 3:59 am

Quoting dc10lover (Reply 82):
With all the LAX gates AS will have this will really help make AS be a major player inside California.

They'd still only control about 11% of the market at LAX (compared to 24% for AA, 20% for DL, and 18% apiece for both UA and WN), but that's still enough to be relevant there, with opportunities to grow further. In addition, they'll control 16% of the market at SFO, being the second-largest player there after UA.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 4:34 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 83):
They'd still only control about 11% of the market at LAX (compared to 24% for AA, 20% for DL, and 18% apiece for both UA and WN), but that's still enough to be relevant there, with opportunities to grow further. In addition, they'll control 16% of the market at SFO, being the second-largest player there after UA.

This is a silly sidebar, but it's interesting that you keep using "they" references when talking about Alaska Airlines. Are you still employed there or are you just phrasing it as "they" vs "we" so as to not speak for "them"? Just curious.  

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15699
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 5:51 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 84):
This is a silly sidebar, but it's interesting that you keep using "they" references when talking about Alaska Airlines. Are you still employed there or are you just phrasing it as "they" vs "we" so as to not speak for "them"?

Not silly at all; I'm still with AS, and don't like to act as if I "speak on behalf of the company" since that's not my capacity here.

I also tend to use "they" because frankly, I don't like braggarts and don't want to come across as perpetually boastful about the company, even though I'm exceptionally proud of what my co-workers and I do.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 6:01 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 85):
Not silly at all; I'm still with AS, and don't like to act as if I "speak on behalf of the company" since that's not my capacity here.

I also tend to use "they" because frankly, I don't like braggarts and don't want to come across as perpetually boastful about the company, even though I'm exceptionally proud of what my co-workers and I do.

Cool, thanks for the explanation. Figured that's what it was but then started to wonder, especially after defending DL in the other thread.  

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Beardown91737
Posts: 895
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:56 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 6:20 am

Quoting grbauc (Reply 29):
I would debate that and strongly disagree. In the Socal region they retreated/Reduced many many of there flights up and down the coast from ONT, BUR even SNA to SAC,OAK,SJC after they chased of the other airlines and have raised the prices to near the old Legacy prices. ONT to OAK now costs $4-500 with bare minimum schedules and no competition week of travel. But Lax where there is plenty of competition I can get last min fares for approx $250-350 the same or more then AA,DL etc out of LAX. They now run the table here in California and out of secondary airports the Love they use to give CA with price and schedule is not longer close to when they first started dating us...

WN seems to be collecting the "avoid LAX" premium at both ONT and BUR.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 43):
In the takeover documentation AS discussed the 'west coast market'. Is there such a thing? like combining Florida and New York as one market. I can't see the linkages between a California market and a Washington market - very different beasts. Is a Texas / California market closer?

No. Texas and California are not friends.

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 42):
America's Pest...err America West basically gave up direct SAN-LAS service (basically required a PHX stop) and I think, since the US Airways and American consolidation have surrendered that market.

Strange. US was still flying ONT-LAS after being taken over by HP.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 76):
A "go to" airline for a business passenger should be more than just exhausting every permutation between LA Basin / SF Bay / LAS / PHX.

At some point business travelers would actually be demanding things like NYC PHL BOS MSP DTW MIA/FLL nonstops (I'm excluding DC here since they nonstop to BWI but that's also the furthest WAS airport from the National Mall)

And once in a while, those business travelers would also like to take their family on family vacations to HNL OGG MCO CUN etc.

That's another advantage for WN. They also fly east. By getting passengers from all (except LGB) their CA markets to DEN, PHX, and LAS, they can then take their pax to just about anywhere they fly with only one connection. This is strengthened by them having either MDW or DAL, or both from almost all their CA cities, and even more destinations from OAK, SAN, LAX, SNA, and SMF.

To compete, AS would have to serve PHX from all those places and then feed onto AA, which probably still flies to most of the 65 PMUS destinations. Problem is that AA still has the legacy HP routes into PHX from more places than WN serves, so it doesn't make much of a point for AS to add service that competes with AA just to feed to AA. With WN being more viable for eastbound itineraries, travelers will stick with the same FF program for north'-south travel as well.

Around 2007-2008 WN did have codeshared flights to HNL from ONT and OAK on ATA.
135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 6:45 am

I wonder if AS will bring back SJC-LAX and SJC-PSP. The PSP route has been started and stopped a few times. Seems like it could at least support a Q400.

I wonder if SJC-FAT could do okay with a Q400. I believe Air California served that route at one time when they added FAT.

The other interesting things I'd to see with a Q, but I know they probably won't happen, are a return of service to TVL and CCR. I would be surprised if AS couldn't make them work.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1802
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 6:52 am

Wouldn't it be funny if Californians just blew off Alaska & dismissed them because they're "not from here" and not part of the culture?
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15699
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 8:14 am

Quoting n7371f (Reply 89):
Wouldn't it be funny if Californians just blew off Alaska & dismissed them because they're "not from here"

Yeah, hysterical.   

I'm unsure how that would happen, though; Californians don't have allegiance to any one airline, and they have been flying AS for decades to places like Mexico, where you wouldn't think "Alaska Airlines" - so clearly, the idea of a regional limitation or "not from here, so I won't use them" angle isn't a huge concern.

Especially seeing how people far smarter than myself figured it was worth spending $2.6B on locking down CA for future growth...

[Edited 2016-05-18 01:15:51]
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1514
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 9:06 am

It will be very interesting to see how far AS is willing to go to achieve this goal. Are they going to add painfully competitive routes like SFO-PHX and LAX-ATL that appeal to O&D travelers in VX hub markets? Are they going to make bolder moves like SAN-EWR and SJC-ORD that appeal to O&D travelers in their focus city markets? Are they going to get creative like they have from their SEA hub by trying unserved niche routes like SFO-BDL and LAX-RSW?
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 2:31 pm

Quoting n7371f (Reply 89):

Wouldn't it be funny if Californians just blew off Alaska & dismissed them because they're "not from here" and not part of the culture?

I think someone ate some sour grape nuts for breakfast again this morning.  

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 2:37 pm

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 87):

That's another advantage for WN. They also fly east. By getting passengers from all (except LGB) their CA markets to DEN, PHX, and LAS, they can then take their pax to just about anywhere they fly with only one connection. This is strengthened by them having either MDW or DAL, or both from almost all their CA cities, and even more destinations from OAK, SAN, LAX, SNA, and SMF.

So you're actually arguing that forcing everyone onto 1-stop instead of nonstop is an advantage, when most competitors offer the nonstop already ?
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1546
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 2:56 pm

Quoting penguins (Reply 32):
disagree, the only non LA or SF metro area airports in CA that WN servers are SAN and SMF. No service whatsoever to airports like PSP or BFL that would show WN is "aware" of California. At least AS has PSP.

Maybe AS has something of an advantage with the use of RJs? Since WN won't fly anything but 737s, they can't take on any routes that won't sufficiently fill a 737. That opens a lot of secondary markets like MRY, FAT, SCK, and so on. They also can adjust both frequency and capacity by mixing in RJs.

Another possibility would be an intra-California hub. SJC or FAT might make sense, allowing connections from smaller cities to the big markets, not to mention connections to cities outside California. WN doesn't like operating hubs.
 
mikesairways
Posts: 664
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:47 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 3:45 pm

The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5385
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 4:02 pm

Quoting mikesairways (Reply 95):
SJC-BUR & SAN-SMF

And here we go... !!!!!

Fantastic news, even though SAN-SMF is not really a surprise. ( I posted somewhere on A.net just a day or 2 ago that I expected, if what many of us here were right about what was going on, SAN-SMF would be added sooner rather than later!)

The long lead time IS a bit of a surprise -- about 10 months -- and is obviously tied to new a/c arrivals. But the announcement this far in advance is still unusual.

These additions should put SAN well over 30 flights a day, similar in number to SJC, keeping the two focus cities right around the 5th and 6th largest AS stations (right after the hubs of SEA, PDX, ANC and LA.)

It will be very interesting to see what WN reveals tomorrow with their next schedule release!

Nice moves Alaska!

bb
 
mikesairways
Posts: 664
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:47 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 4:20 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 96):
The long lead time IS a bit of a surprise -- about 10 months -- and is obviously tied to new a/c arrivals. But the announcement this far in advance is still unusual.

WN is making some big announcements tomorrow - I wonder if this just a preemptive attempt to steal some of that thunder.
The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1829
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 4:32 pm

Quoting mikesairways (Reply 95):
Just announced:

SJC-BUR & SAN-SMF

I like how they are promoting connecting services to international destinations thru SJC ! that will help fend off any onslaught from WN
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4990
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: California's Go To Airline, AS Puts WN On Notice

Wed May 18, 2016 4:47 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 96):
The long lead time IS a bit of a surprise -- about 10 months -- and is obviously tied to new a/c arrivals. But the announcement this far in advance is still unusual.

The March start ties it to the 5 E175's OO is receiving in early 2017. The QX deliveries do not start until Q2.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos