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Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:03 pm
by irishpower
I was just wondering if we'll ever see another brand new international airport here in the US built from the ground up. I'm not talking about new terminals or adding on to an existing facility. I'm talking about a new airport from scratch (like we are seeing in Dubai and Istanbul).

Thoughts? When and where?

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:09 pm
by TWA772LR
Nope. The SNA replacement idea to use El Toro MCAS was the last bet.

Otherwise, if the municipalities of Seattle and San Diego decide to pony up some money for their increasingly growing airports in very congested areas, I don't think we'll see a new big airport in the US.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:11 pm
by UA444
Doubtful for the next 15-20 years. I can see many making an argument that airports like SAN and even ATL need a second airport.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:12 pm
by eal
There are a number of airports in the US that will eventually have to be replaced. Increased traffic demand and limited room for expansion are gonna force some places to seriously think of a new airport or at least expanding smaller airports in the area.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:17 pm
by Seat1F
The only city I know of that needs a new airport location is San Diego. That SAN approach and shortish runway is a disaster waiting to happen....not to mention the limitations of the one-runway operation.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:17 pm
by enilria
Quoting eal (Reply 3):

There are a number of airports in the US that will eventually have to be replaced. Increased traffic demand and limited room for expansion are gonna force some places to seriously think of a new airport or at least expanding smaller airports in the area.

...or it could be like Europe where there are slots in place everywhere.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:43 pm
by tmiw
Quoting Seat1F (Reply 4):
The only city I know of that needs a new airport location is San Diego. That SAN approach and shortish runway is a disaster waiting to happen....not to mention the limitations of the one-runway operation.

One already happened if you count PSA 182.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:05 pm
by tys777
Aren't they going to be build a new airport to replace ISN? I know the original plans had a CBP facility on site. So 'technically' international airport.   

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:11 pm
by S75752
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 1):


Nope. The SNA replacement idea to use El Toro MCAS was the last bet.

Did it get NIMBY'd the crap out of, or did some other things happen?

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:17 pm
by Ytraveller
There were plans to build a second airport for Las Vegas, in Ivanpah Valley near the border with California. Then came the recession, and the project was put on hold indefinitely in 2010.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:21 pm
by D L X
There aren't a lot of places in the US that need new airfields, I suspect. BUT I do think we will see new terminals in a lot of places. LGA for one.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:32 pm
by tys777
Quoting tys777 (Reply 7):

Found a link. Anticipating 2018 opening. 5 gates with room to expand to 12.

www.flywilliston.net/relocation

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:34 pm
by smw757
Miami was going to have TNT as a new airport in the Everglades, but the environmental movement stopped its development and now it is a training airport with a 10,500 foot long runway. Either way, MIA cannot expand in its current location and will eventually need a replacement.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:47 pm
by TWA772LR
Quoting S75752 (Reply 8):
Did it get NIMBY'd the crap out of, or did some other things happen?

NIMBY NIMBY NIMBY, including my grandmother who lives in Laguna Woods. With airplanes as quiet as they are now, the noise on the surrounding areas would be minimal. 737s are a lot more quiet than F18s. Even when I tell her that it would allow for billions of dollars to flow into the local economy and would create thousands of jobs and have flights around the world and act as a reliever to LAX and SAN, she still says it was good the voters shot it down.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:52 pm
by globalcabotage
The People's Republic of Illinois is pushing Chicago Petone International Airport, but that is a saltine elephant that would be s colossal waste of money that IL and DC don't have and the airlines don't want.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 12:14 am
by copter808
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 1):
Nope. The SNA replacement idea to use El Toro MCAS was the last bet.

And what do you base this on? "Never" is a very long time!

A better question would have a more specific timeframe.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:06 am
by johns624
Quoting irishpower (Thread starter):
I was just wondering if we'll ever see another brand new international airport here

What area needs a strictly international airport? I can't think of any.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:11 am
by irishpower
What about Las Vegas? I thought there was talk of building a brand new facility out near Primm.

What's the latest on that?

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:20 am
by Ytraveller
Quoting irishpower (Reply 17):
What about Las Vegas? I thought there was talk of building a brand new facility out near Primm.

What's the latest on that?

See reply 9.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:20 am
by masgniw
PAE got the ok to start regularly scheduled commercial flights in 2017, but I believe there will be a cap at 24 flights per day.

As fast as growth in the Seattle metro area is happening, I'm not exactly sure the Everett area is enough of a draw for international flights. While I very much see flights happening to PDX, SFO, LAX and other domestic destinations, I don't know where an international flight would go, especially with the lack of connectivity out of PAE.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:22 am
by N1120A
SEA and SAN are two airports that could use replacing/supplementing and will likely not see it for some time.

Chicago doesn't really need Petone anymore, as O'Hare finally has an efficient layout. Other large cities either don't have reasonable space to build a new airport or don't have a need.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 8):
Did it get NIMBY'd the crap out of, or did some other things happen?

El Toro was 100% NIMBY and a real shame.

Quoting irishpower (Reply 17):
What about Las Vegas? I thought there was talk of building a brand new facility out near Primm.

What's the latest on that?

Ivanpah is completely non-viable until HSR is built. If it is, then that airport will serve both some of Inland Southern California and Las Vegas.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:22 am
by 32andBelow
Quoting masgniw (Reply 19):
As fast as growth in the Seattle metro area is happening, I'm not exactly sure the Everett area is enough of a draw for international flights. While I very much see flights happening to PDX, SFO, LAX and other domestic destinations, I don't know where an international flight would go, especially with the lack of connectivity out of PAE.

Maybe YVR. But that would be a cheap way to become international .

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:35 am
by masgniw
Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 21):

Maybe YVR.

Yea it's an option, but PAE is markedly closer to YVR than SEA. It's only a 2 hour drive (excluding border time) from PAE and nearly 3 from SEA. Combine that with heavy air service from SEA and several more afforadable train/bus options, I don't know what's left for PAE.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:42 am
by 32andBelow
Quoting masgniw (Reply 22):
Yea it's an option, but PAE is markedly closer to YVR than SEA. It's only a 2 hour drive (excluding border time) from PAE and nearly 3 from SEA. Combine that with heavy air service from SEA and several more afforadable train/bus options, I don't know what's left for PAE.

Maybe like a once a week mexico flight. But I don't see why they would install an FIS unless there would be more usage.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:48 am
by Sooner787
I still believe MCAS Miramar will eventually becomes San Diego's main airport.

I Congress has the stomach for another round of military base closures,
I'm fairly confident Miramar would get the axe. They could relocate
the Marine assets to Yuma.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:49 am
by mayor
Quoting globalcabotage (Reply 14):

The People's Republic of Illinois is pushing Chicago Petone International Airport,

STILL???? I bet if the price of corn were to skyrocket, that chunk of land would go back to the farmers, in a hurry.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:51 am
by thekorean
Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):

Plus they have GYY, much more convenient option.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:57 am
by jsnww81
Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
El Toro was 100% NIMBY and a real shame.

The whole El Toro debacle bordered on surreal. On one side you had the Newport Beach crowd - arguably the most fervent NIMBYs on earth - enthusiastically lobbying for a new airport, simply because it would have taken all that pesky SNA noise and made it someone else's problem. On the other side you had Irvine, Laguna Woods and Lake Forest - all comfortable communities, but more middle-class than anything in Newport - pushing just as hard to keep tiny SNA in business and the planes flying over the rich peoples' houses.

In the end the "regular folks" won the argument and a magnificent piece of taxpayer-funded infrastructure got plowed into the ground and replaced with some kind of "Great Park" that hasn't really amounted to much, and SNA continues to be small for its own good.

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 24):
I still believe MCAS Miramar will eventually becomes San Diego's main airport.

Miramar is the only real solution to the San Diego airport situation. It'll be a hell of a battle when the time comes, but everyone in San Diego County knows deep down that there's no other way. They're going to cram as much as they can into Lindbergh Field before they have to have to fight the Miramar fight, though; they've already kicked the can as far down the road as they possibly can.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:58 am
by ATLFlyer323
What about the new MSY? I know it's on the same property, but from what I have read I think it will be brand new from the ground up right?

-ATLFlyer323

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 2:00 am
by TWA772LR
Not quite an airport, but the Houston Airport System is planning to make EFD into the world's first commercial spaceport serving a major city. Not sure if it'll actually happen, but there's bound to be some sort of scheduled conventional commercial flights if it ever happens.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 2:00 am
by mayor
Quoting thekorean (Reply 26):

Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):

Plus they have GYY, much more convenient option.

Convenient to WHO? Neither Peotone NOR GYY is convenient. Aurora would be better, actually.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 2:18 am
by Miami
Quoting smw757 (Reply 12):
Either way, MIA cannot expand in its current location and will eventually need a replacement.

   Couldn't agree more.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 2:28 am
by nikeherc
There are cities that are currently secondary that will grow in the future. Some of them may well need new airports if they are to expand in to intecontinental service. Service to Canada and Mexico may or may not require 10,000 foot runways, but long overwater flights probably would.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 2:30 am
by PSU.DTW.SCE
SAN - sooner or later everyone is going to have to sit down and figure out a way to may Miramar the long-term solution for commercial service.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 2:40 am
by grbauc
Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 21):
Quoting S75752 (Reply 8):
Did it get NIMBY'd the crap out of, or did some other things happen?

El Toro was 100% NIMBY and a real shame.

And they got the wool pulled over there eyes. They voted for park land and got housing tracks only and no parks. I'm a little outdated on info so some one might correct me. Its was very short sighted to not do something with El Torro that would of been more beneficial.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 2:43 am
by eal
Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 24):

Would certainly be a good idea, San Diego could probably be a competitive Pacific hub if it wherent so limited in its operations. For an airport its size it has a sizable amount of international carriers. But it certainly is becoming far too crowded and far too dangerous.

Quoting smw757 (Reply 12):

I couldn't agree more, Miami is locked in from all sides. The only way I see MIA surviving at its current location is by connecting it to Opa Locka via rail and having them operate as one airport in two different locations (albeit very close), of course this is a pipe dream. Personally I think a clean sheet airport in the East Coast Buffer area by the turnpike would work best. It would also allow the developers in downtown to build them taller.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 3:52 am
by alfa164
Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 28):
What about the new MSY? I know it's on the same property, but from what I have read I think it will be brand new from the ground up right?

   I remember - years ago - flying from MSY to MBJ. I have wondered since if MSY might not be a good secondary hub for a Caribbean/Latin America-oriented airline... Eastern, maybe?

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 4:05 am
by N1120A
I agree that Miramar is the ultimate solution for SAN, and the federal government has shown a willingness to let it go before. The key would be building the trolley out there.

Quoting thekorean (Reply 26):
Plus they have GYY, much more convenient option.

GYY isn't convenient and is in the wrong state.

Quoting eal (Reply 35):
But it certainly is becoming far too crowded and far too dangerous.

SAN isn't dangerous. It has had significant operations for decades, with one truly tragic incident, which wasn't really related to airport location.

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 28):
What about the new MSY? I know it's on the same property, but from what I have read I think it will be brand new from the ground up right?

New terminals, but not a new airfield.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 4:06 am
by Beardown91737
My top choice would be SAN.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 13):
NIMBY NIMBY NIMBY, including my grandmother who lives in Laguna Woods. With airplanes as quiet as they are now, the noise on the surrounding areas would be minimal. 737s are a lot more quiet than F18s. Even when I tell her that it would allow for billions of dollars to flow into the local economy and would create thousands of jobs and have flights around the world and act as a reliever to LAX and SAN, she still says it was good the voters shot it down.

Of course, pumping more money into the OC economy is not going to take priority over NIMBY issues.

Quoting globalcabotage (Reply 14):
The People's Republic of Illinois is pushing Chicago Petone International Airport, but that is a saltine elephant that would be s colossal waste of money that IL and DC don't have and the airlines don't want.

Making it the most likely to happen.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
Ivanpah is completely non-viable until HSR is built. If it is, then that airport will serve both some of Inland Southern California and Las Vegas.

There might be 5,000 California residents within 100 mi of the proposed Ivanpah. It would have been closer to Jean than Primm, so I figure 120 miles from Barstow. It's 140 miles to St. George UT.

Quoting thekorean (Reply 26):
Plus they have GYY, much more convenient option.
Quoting mayor (Reply 30):
Convenient to WHO? Neither Peotone NOR GYY is convenient. Aurora would be better, actually.

ARR is the bigger growth area but in either case, ORD would remain the international airport.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 4:40 am
by jetmatt777
Quoting N1120A (Reply 37):
I agree that Miramar is the ultimate solution for SAN, and the federal government has shown a willingness to let it go before. The key would be building the trolley out there.

What about swapping SAN and North Island Halsey NAS? Could fit a 11,000 foot runway, and 8,000 foot parallel.

Do a DEN style concourse. Departing aircraft exit the ramp to the east, arriving aircraft enter ramp from the west. Can do air freight on the north...

https://i.gyazo.com/62ac742875cbf563b3bd2eebede81ee0.jpg

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 4:42 am
by S75752
Maybe a replacement for LGA? :P

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 4:44 am
by alfa164
Quoting S75752 (Reply 40):

Maybe a replacement for LGA?

Where???

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 7:00 am
by thekorean
Quoting N1120A (Reply 37):

Well its more convenient than Peotone.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 7:09 am
by Beatyair
Denver would have been the last I know of. LGA and SLC would be the closest to that now on the same land. Houston is planning a major change, but a whole new thing, no. I would like to see San Diego grow or move to a new site.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 7:14 am
by LatAmFlyer
Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 39):
What about swapping SAN and North Island Halsey NAS? Could fit a 11,000 foot runway, and 8,000 foot parallel.

Looking at your map, I would think the office towers in downtown San Diego would be an obstacle, no?

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 10:18 am
by visakow
Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 39):

3 reasons North Island wouldn't work are

1) Lot of money and powerful NIMBY lobby from the city of Coronado.

2) Accessibility. Coronado bridge would be pushed to it's limits. When it was built the Port of SD skimped to save money and didn't build a full size, proper bridge. It has a divider that is moved twice a day between morning and evening rush hours. On top of that roadway access on the island would require an expensive rebuild.

3) Climate change. If sea levels truly do rise anywhere between 1.5 to 3 feet over the next 50 years large parts of the island could be inundated with water and in the end construction of a new facility would be a complete waste of money.

My    anyway.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 10:22 am
by antoniemey
Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 39):
What about swapping SAN and North Island Halsey NAS?
Quoting LatAmFlyer (Reply 44):
I would think the office towers in downtown San Diego would be an obstacle, no?

How are the winds in that area? I would think you could avoid that issue (and allow for more runway space) by orienting the runways a bit more across the width of the wide end of the island and building the terminal facilities where it narrows. Or use (and extend) the existing runways of the Naval Air Station.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 10:37 am
by rbavfan
Quoting tmiw (Reply 6):
One already happened if you count PSA 182.

PSA 182 was not due to steep approaches, short runways or one directional operations. It was failure of visual flight rules & failer of the Cesna to maintain the correct heading of 90 vs the 70 they changed to.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 10:45 am
by bjorn14
I also think Key West NAS (NQI) should be converted to at least joint use so EYW could be used for commercial development.

I 've always wondered with TIJ and SDB right next to each other if it could not be developed into a Basel/Mulhouse type airport.

RE: Will The US Ever Build A New Int'l Airport?

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 11:01 am
by washingtonflyer
Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 39):
What about swapping SAN and North Island Halsey NAS? Could fit a 11,000 foot runway, and 8,000 foot parallel.

Clearly drawn by someone unfamiliar with the terrain profile of Point Loma to the west.

You're looking at a 450 foot hill 1 mile from the west end of that "proposed" runway.

Not to mention the traffic that would be involved in moving folks across the Coronado Bay bridge.

No. Thank you.

In any event, Halsey Field ain't going anywhere. The Navy parks up to three aircraft carriers at a time up along the north perimeter of NAS NI. Where are you going to move them to?

[Edited 2016-05-16 04:04:42]