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mfranjic
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AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Tue May 17, 2016 8:13 pm

*
.

The first American Airlines´ aircraft . Airbus A321-231SL - MSN 6621, reg. N162AA (test reg. F-WZMB) built in the Airbus U.S. Manufacturing Facility, AL, USA, with the cabin configuration C16 W33 Y132 and powered by two . V2533-A5 twin-shaft turbofans (fan diameter 1.613 mm / 63,5 in, eng. architecture: F+4LPC-10HPC ^ 2HPT-5LPT), each 140,56 kN / 14.333 kgf / 31.600 lbf, flying on the route BFM-DFW, was delivered to the customer today, on 17. May 2016.

.


American Airlines already has 181 Airbus A321 aircraft in its fleet; 43 of them (former US Airways´) are of type Airbus A321-211, powered by two . CFM56-5B3/3 twin-shaft turbofans (fan diameter: 1.735 mm / 68,3 in, eng. architecture: F+4LPC-9HPC ^ 1HPT-4LPT), each 142,34 kN / 14.515 kgf / 32.000 lbf and the remaining 138 aircraft are of type Airbus A321-231


Nice regards

Mario
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Cubsrule
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Tue May 17, 2016 8:16 pm

Quoting mfranjic (Thread starter):
(test reg. F-WZMB)

Dumb question maybe, but are they going to continue to use F- test registrations for US-built aircraft? XFW looks like it uses a mix of F- and D- registrations.
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Tue May 17, 2016 8:34 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
Dumb question maybe, but are they going to continue to use F- test registrations for US-built aircraft? XFW looks like it uses a mix of F- and D- registrations.

Probably due to being owned by a French company and their test pilots having EU licenses.
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Tue May 17, 2016 10:02 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
Dumb question maybe, but are they going to continue to use F- test registrations for US-built aircraft? XFW looks like it uses a mix of F- and D- registrations.

Probably due to being owned by a French company and their test pilots having EU licenses.

Partly. The whole manufacturing process at Airbus [everywhere] is under EASA supervision, so until the new aircraft is placed on the N register it's a European aircraft [certification wise] so F or even D, I or ES registrations are to be expected. So the documentation US airlines and the FAA receive is exactly the same from whatever specific plant produced the aircraft.

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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 1:28 am

Is AA still taking A321s that were ordered by US Airways pre-merger?
 
BlatantEcho
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 1:31 am

They have 138 A321s already???

Holy heck, does that shock anyone else?
That's probably 50 more than I ever would have guessed.
 
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 1:37 am

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 5):
They have 138 A321s already???

181, actually. As the OP says, 138 with V2500s, the rest with CFM56s.

V2500-powered planes are a mix of L-AA and L-US original orders, while CFM planes are all L-US.
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 1:38 am

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 5):

Most are PMUS birds
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 7:26 am

Certainly a shorter delivery flight!
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mjoelnir
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 11:11 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):
181, actually. As the OP says, 138 with V2500s, the rest with CFM56s.

V2500-powered planes are a mix of L-AA and L-US original orders, while CFM planes are all L-US.

The only type AA has more off is the 737-800 with 272, but if we look at A319/320/321 AA has 360 against the 272 737.
 
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 11:25 am

Quoting Swacle (Reply 7):
Most are PMUS birds

As stated in the original post: "43 of them (former US Airways)"
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 12:10 pm

Quoting columba (Reply 10):
As stated in the original post: "43 of them (former US Airways)"

All 121 A321 bought by US are still operating for AA. All 43 A321 with CFM56 engines are former US birds, but US bought also 78 A321 with V2500 engines. All US ordered A321 seem to be delivered.
The easiest distinction between US birds and AA birds are the sharklets as it is. US bought without and AA with.
So I assume that 60 A321 currently in the fleet are AA ordered.

[Edited 2016-05-18 05:34:52]
 
apodino
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 3:40 pm

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 5):
They have 138 A321s already???

Holy heck, does that shock anyone else?
That's probably 50 more than I ever would have guessed.

Interestingly enough...AA now has the largest narrowbody airbus fleet in the world.
 
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cageyjames
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 3:57 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 12):
Interestingly enough...AA now has the largest narrowbody airbus fleet in the world.

And the largest Airbus fleet.
 
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fraspotter
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 4:17 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 13):

Quite the turn around from years ago when AA still had A300s and people on here were expecting AA to move away from Airbus completely.
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 4:33 pm

Quoting fraspotter (Reply 14):
Quite the turn around from years ago when AA still had A300s and people on here were expecting AA to move away from Airbus completely.

True, but I think AA was moving toward the fleet strategy you see now before the merger. A319/B738/A321 for narrowbody was already happening. They just inherited the huge Airbus fleet from US that aligned pretty well. The business model of US was tilted more to the A321 than AA is but it's network was much smaller so that is understandable.

I will be curious to see if AA moves to a larger A321 fleet when the NEOs arrive. I know the MAX order is still there, but it just feels like AA will continue to grow the airbus fleet.
 
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 6:40 pm

Not to hijack this thread....

When will AA start re-configuring L-US A321s to the new AA standard? They seem to be really dragging their feet on this, especially since the configuration and seats are already known.

AA seems to really drag their feet on technology upgrades to existing fleets. AA still had not upgraded a single winglet on the A321 (L-US) or B738 fleets while still taking new deliveries.

Every other major operator of B738/9 have started having Scimitar Winglets on their new deliveries (UA/DL/WN/AS/WS/SY), but not AA.
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 6:46 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 12):
Interestingly enough...AA now has the largest narrowbody airbus fleet in the world.
Quoting cageyjames (Reply 13):
And the largest Airbus fleet.

Not too surprising though. I believe before the merger US had the largest Airbus fleet.
 
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 6:49 pm

Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 16):
When will AA start re-configuring L-US A321s to the new AA standard? They seem to be really dragging their feet on this, especially since the configuration and seats are already known.

They're working on the A319s right now. That said given that they're not putting in IFE I wouldn't get your hopes up (I honestly don't care but around here it's a requirement). The biggest thing for me would be MCE on all flights but I suppose in time.

Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 16):
AA seems to really drag their feet on technology upgrades to existing fleets. AA still had not upgraded a single winglet on the A321 (L-US) or B738 fleets while still taking new deliveries.

The winglets on the A321s is an aftermarket, is it not?
 
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 8:41 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 13):
Quoting apodino (Reply 12):

Shouldn't be a surprise, US Airways was the world's largest Airbus operator, largest A321 operator, and largest A320 family operator. Take that, add even more Airbuses on the AA side and you have a large operator.

Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 16):

With low oil prices investment in expensive wingtip modifications isn't going to have as large a return on investment.
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 9:49 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 19):
With low oil prices investment in expensive wingtip modifications isn't going to have as large a return on investment.

Aye...however, isn't it generally agreed upon that oil prices will continue to climb after more of the US fracking industry players default on their loans, reducing the world's glut of oil...thereby making winglets critical once again?
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 10:15 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 18):
The winglets on the A321s is an aftermarket, is it not?

Can be factory delivered with Sharklets or Wingtip Fences. Modification to Sharklets is from a givien line number forward, and I don't recall that number.
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Wed May 18, 2016 10:36 pm

Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 16):
AA still had not upgraded a single winglet on the A321 (L-US)

Over half of the LUS 321s aren't sharklet compatible due to the need for a reinforced wing section that wasn't delivered to US until mid-2011 IIRC.
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 2:01 am

Quoting Western727 (Reply 20):
however, isn't it generally agreed upon that oil prices will continue to climb after more of the US fracking industry players default on their loans, reducing the world's glut of oil...thereby making winglets critical once again?

Not as critical. Once oil breaks $65/bbl, the USA will frack like before. The issue is the USA has run out of storage. It will be a slow climb.

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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 2:44 am

Get to see all the planes coming out of the FAL, they tow each plane through our facility at MAE since we have a compass rise on site.
 
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 2:52 am

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 3):

Partly. The whole manufacturing process at Airbus [everywhere] is under EASA supervision, so until the new aircraft is placed on the N register it's a European aircraft [certification wise] so F or even D, I or ES registrations are to be expected. So the documentation US airlines and the FAA receive is exactly the same from whatever specific plant produced the aircraft.

So even though it's built in the U.S., when it is delivered does it need to be "imported" through customs?
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Gemuser
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 3:00 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25):
So even though it's built in the U.S., when it is delivered does it need to be "imported" through customs?

No idea but I doubt it. I was talking about the aircraft certification process, not any other process.
A related question, which I also have no answer for is "does the FAA require an "Export Certificate of Airworthiness" for each aircraft as is normal procedure?
I would expect EASA, FAA & Airbus to have an agreement to cover the certification requirements for Mobile production.


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N1120A
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 3:10 am

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 18):
The winglets on the A321s is an aftermarket, is it not?

No. Whether or not delivered with the plane, the Sharklets are OEM.
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 3:33 am

Thanks Mario for the info, and congratulations AA and Airbus (Alabama Too!)

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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 3:55 am

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 15):
I will be curious to see if AA moves to a larger A321 fleet when the NEOs arrive. I know the MAX order is still there, but it just feels like AA will continue to grow the airbus fleet.

Remember that AA would have preferred to have all Airbus or all Boeing narrowbodies, but neither manufacturer was in a position to deliver the entire order. That is why the order was split. What will be interesting is down the road, when either Airbus or Boeing designs an all new narrowbody.

Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 16):
AA seems to really drag their feet on technology upgrades to existing fleets. AA still had not upgraded a single winglet on the A321 (L-US) or B738 fleets while still taking new deliveries.

Every other major operator of B738/9 have started having Scimitar Winglets on their new deliveries (UA/DL/WN/AS/WS/SY), but not AA.

Remember that AA was hesitant to install winglets on the 738s, as a factory option. Winglets add 5 feet to the wingspan, reducing the number of gates that 738s can use at some airports. Then, the run-up in oil prices in 2007 and 2008 came along, which prompted AA to not only add the winglets for future deliveries, but to add winglets to already-delivered 738s, 757s, and 763s.

If oil was more expensive, AA might be more interested in the scimitar winglets. And, as was the issue with adding the older style of winglets, the scimitar might present a space problem. A friend of mine who flies 738s tells me that at some gates, it was common to park a 738, such that the wingtip was under the wingtip of a 777. Now, because of the winglets, about the only mainline jets that are parked that way are the MD-80s.
 
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 7:18 am

Quoting ckfred (Reply 29):
If oil was more expensive, AA might be more interested in the scimitar winglets. And, as was the issue with adding the older style of winglets, the scimitar might present a space problem.

I don't think the scimitar adds nearly as much as the original winglets did. I think AA's issue with the scimitars is that they just don't tend to use the 738s for quite the same mission that scimitar carriers do.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 29):
Remember that AA was hesitant to install winglets on the 738s, as a factory option. Winglets add 5 feet to the wingspan, reducing the number of gates that 738s can use at some airports. Then, the run-up in oil prices in 2007 and 2008 came along, which prompted AA to not only add the winglets for future deliveries, but to add winglets to already-delivered 738s, 757s, and 763s.

AA and WN were really pretty foolish to be a bit late to the party with winglets.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 29):
Remember that AA would have preferred to have all Airbus or all Boeing narrowbodies, but neither manufacturer was in a position to deliver the entire order. That is why the order was split. What will be interesting is down the road, when either Airbus or Boeing designs an all new narrowbody.

The other issue is that the advantage the 738 has over the A320 is much more substantial than any advantage the other sizes have.
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mjoelnir
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 7:59 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 22):
Over half of the LUS 321s aren't sharklet compatible due to the need for a reinforced wing section that wasn't delivered to US until mid-2011 IIRC.

About half of the former US A321, more than 60 frames, are compatible for the easy change to winglets. It starts at around MSN5200. From about MSN2500 frames can be converted with additional work done.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
The other issue is that the advantage the 738 has over the A320 is much more substantial than any advantage the other sizes have.

What advantage?

Quoting ckfred (Reply 29):
Remember that AA was hesitant to install winglets on the 738s

All 737-800 have winglets.
 
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 8:25 am

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 31):
All 737-800 have winglets.

Do you realize that it took AA some time to start installing winglets?

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 31):
What advantage?

Costs, range, size, etc.
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mfranjic
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 9:28 am



Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 28):
Thanks Mario for the info

You are welcome, my dear friend!

Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):
Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 31):All 737-800 have winglets.
Do you realize that it took AA some time to start installing winglets?

N1120A, I apologize if I haven´t understood You correctly; to my knowledge, all of 272 American Airlines´ Boeing 737-800 aircraft are of the same type - Boeing 737-823(WL), powered by two . CFM56-7B24(E) twin-shaft turbofans (fan diameter: 1549,4 mm / 61,0 in; eng. architecture: F+3LPC-9HPC ^ 1HPT-4LPT), each 107,65 kN / 10.977 kgf / 24.200 lbf and all of those 272 aircraft have installed winglets.


Nice regards

Mario

[Edited 2016-05-19 03:21:03]
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mjoelnir
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 12:15 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):
Do you realize that it took AA some time to start installing winglets?

factory installed when you buy a 737-800 not optional
 
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Polot
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 12:43 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
AA and WN were really pretty foolish to be a bit late to the party with winglets.

WN, along with CO, was one of the earliest adopters of winglets. In fact they were the first US operator to order and start retrofitting winglets in 2003. WN also wingletted a large portion of their 733 fleet...

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 36):
factory installed when you buy a 737-800 not optional

Unless things have changed, the only 737 where winglets are standard is the 737-900ER. It is optional on the 738/73G although most airlines of course select them. Some airlines, like CO, would order the plane without winglets and retrofit them themselves before putting the plane in service. The first 80 or so AA 738 were delivered without winglets, being delivered before winglets were even available for commercial 737s.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 4:03 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 37):
Unless things have changed, the only 737 where winglets are standard is the 737-900ER. It is optional on the 738/73G although most airlines of course select them. Some airlines, like CO, would order the plane without winglets and retrofit them themselves before putting the plane in service. The first 80 or so AA 738 were delivered without winglets, being delivered before winglets were even available for commercial 737s.

may be, but the last years all 737-800 are delivered with winglets. If you get above L/N 2000 you hardly find a 737-800 delivered without winglets.
 
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 8:57 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 15):


I will be curious to see if AA moves to a larger A321 fleet when the NEOs arrive. I know the MAX order is still there, but it just feels like AA will continue to grow the airbus fleet.


You do realize AA has 100x A321neos on order, right? First one comes in 2019.

If Airbus launches the A322 and Boeing fails to produce an adequate MoM, I can totally see the AA Int'l 757 fleet being replaced with said aircraft.
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cageyjames
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 9:04 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 37):
You do realize AA has 100x A321neos on order, right? First one comes in 2019.

I do, 100 NEOs and 100 MAXs. What I was attempting to question was would they put in more NEO orders over the MAX order? Is the A321 worth more to AA than a B738? Kinda fell it does.
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 9:54 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 38):
What I was attempting to question was would they put in more NEO orders over the MAX order?

AA doesn't need more A319s, so no A319neo.
AA doesn't seem likely to order the A320neo, considering the amount of 737-8s, in service and on order. There's
The A321 has been a plane that's found a place in AA. It's now the flagship of the domestic fleet.

But I ask, why would they "put" more NEO orders over the MAX? The two planes are serving two different kinds of missions.

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 38):
Is the A321 worth more to AA than a B738? Kinda fell it does.

Of course not    Why will AA have 400 737-8s and over 300 A321s?
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cageyjames
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Thu May 19, 2016 10:29 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 39):
AA doesn't need more A319s, so no A319neo.

Let's just break it down logically then. NEO = A321 and MAX = B738. That's it as we both realize.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 39):
AA doesn't seem likely to order the A320neo, considering the amount of 737-8s, in service and on order.

US hadn't ordered a A320 in years. They had pretty much settled on the A321. I can't recall if US had any more A319s on order at the time of the merger and I believe that answer is 0.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 39):
But I ask, why would they "put" more NEO orders over the MAX? The two planes are serving two different kinds of missions.

Because it makes more money for them. They have A319s for a reason and as you point out they're done ordering them. It's filled its niche. I have to believe the B738 is closer to serving its niche than the A321 is. As for having different "missions"? I'm not so sure about that but we can argue the point.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 39):
Of course not    Why will AA have 400 737-8s and over 300 A321s?

Yes at the CEO/NG level. I'm speculating on the future. All we have to go on is two orders of 100 planes for the NEO/MAX. My personal feeling is that they'll order more NEO than MAX but time will tell.
 
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Fri May 20, 2016 12:11 am

Quoting ckfred (Reply 29):
If oil was more expensive, AA might be more interested in the scimitar winglets. And, as was the issue with adding the older style of winglets, the scimitar might present a space problem.

The only space problem the scimitar adds is headspace. Don't drive the fuel truck too close to the wingtip.

Other than that, they take up the same amount of space as a standard winglet in the horizontal direction.
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RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Sun May 22, 2016 4:27 am

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 36):
but the last years all 737-800 are delivered with winglets. If you get above L/N 2000 you hardly find a 737-800 delivered without winglets.

Last built "airline" 737 still in service without winglets:


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william
Posts: 3350
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Sun May 22, 2016 1:50 pm

Flow on an AA a321 yesterday with winglets, still smelled brand new. Window spacing is a little off per seat . Have talked to pilots who fly them and they all say it can be a little sluggish but the takeoff yesterday out of AUS sure contradict that. May not be a 757, but it can get up to cruise altitude rather quickly.

I can see why the A321 is the unofficial flagship of the fleet.
 
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DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2334
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Sun May 22, 2016 6:44 pm

I like the ride in an Airbus well enough. I still hate the drab colors that the new "American" has chosen paint their livery with.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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william
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Tue May 24, 2016 1:08 am

What's the normal capacity of an AA 321, and no the transcon ones?
 
MaxxFlyer
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:29 pm

RE: AA Takes Its First US-assembled Airbus A321

Tue May 24, 2016 3:04 am

Am I correct that AA is not going to keep the 320's inherited in the merger long term?

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