BA Launch LHR-SCL

seansasLCY · Wed May 18, 2016 10:32 am

British Airways will launch a 4x weekly service to Santiago, Chile from January 2017 using 787-900.

http://buyingbusinesstravel.com/news...unch-direct-london-santiago-flight

This takes BA's South American services to 5 and quite an improvement over just a few years ago. Will be interesting to see which other long haul routes emerge.

This will also be BA's longest non-stop service. (Corrected)

[Edited 2016-05-18 03:42:14]

runway23 · Wed May 18, 2016 10:38 am

Quoting seansasLCY (Thread starter):
This will also be BA's longest route.

Longest non-stop flight. Longest route is LHR-SIN-SYD.

SCQ83 · Wed May 18, 2016 10:38 am

Will this be BA's longest route?

florens · Wed May 18, 2016 10:39 am

Nice one, didn't see this one coming!

LGAviation · Wed May 18, 2016 10:40 am

I think it's quite a reasonable move. LA has built SCL into a sizable OW hub and Chile's economy is doing fairly well. I've always been surprised that LA doesn't serve LHR. Let's see whether this has an influence on BA GIG operations.

SCQ83 · Wed May 18, 2016 10:44 am

I wonder if they will sell LHR-SCL-AKL flights?

Another way to reach London to New Zealand with one stop.

cedarjet · Wed May 18, 2016 10:53 am

Quoting LGAviation (Reply 4):
LA has built SCL into a sizable OW hub

True but from London, where on Earth (literally) are you going to fly on to? Easter Island is the only one I can think of. After that it's just penguins.

jfk777 · Wed May 18, 2016 10:55 am

Shows how strong the Chilean Economy is since such a flight is very long and has limited connecting opportunities. Awesome.

TC957 · Wed May 18, 2016 10:56 am

Would be great if LA would serve LHR on the other 3 days BA don't.

Quoting florens (Reply 3):
Nice one, didn't see this one coming!

This route had been rumoured for quite some time.

qf789 · Wed May 18, 2016 11:02 am

flight schedule is as follows, according to article in start of thread

LHR2200-940+1SCL Tues, Thur, Fri & Sun duration 14hrs40mins
SCL1845-1205+1LHR Mon, Wed, Fri & Sat duration 14hrs20mins

downtown273 · Wed May 18, 2016 11:21 am

Quoting qf789 (Reply 9):
LHR2200-940+1SCL Tues, Thur, Fri & Sun duration 14hrs40mins
SCL1845-1205+1LHR Mon, Wed, Fri & Sat duration 14hrs20mins

I can't understand how BA is willing to keep a new B789 parked in SCL for over 9 hours.

Of course I get the point that having the right flight times will make the flight more attractive to passengers and be able to price it differently.

However, yields must be expected to be great, to allow for 14.5+9+14.5 = 38 hours for the return trip of the aircraft. The same aircraft could do two full returns from LHR to the US East Coast on the same timeframe.

sandycx · Wed May 18, 2016 11:43 am

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 12):
I can't understand how BA is willing to keep a new B789 parked in SCL for over 9 hours.

Of course I get the point that having the right flight times will make the flight more attractive to passengers and be able to price it differently.

However, yields must be expected to be great, to allow for 14.5+9+14.5 = 38 hours for the return trip of the aircraft. The same aircraft could do two full returns from LHR to the US East Coast on the same timeframe.

They have similarly long layovers in SYD, JNB and GRU. I suppose they are expecting high yield customers.

EUflyer · Wed May 18, 2016 11:50 am

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 12):
I can't understand how BA is willing to keep a new B789 parked in SCL for over 9 hours.

Simple - business travel, the 1845 allows a full days work before the return flight to LHR.

BA J class prices are a steal on this at the moment, might be tempted to book a seat.

nickofatlanta · Wed May 18, 2016 11:50 am

Possibly because of a shortage of early morning landing slots at LHR?

DolphinAir747 · Wed May 18, 2016 12:16 pm

Makes a ton of sense. Been calling for this for a while.

jfk777 · Wed May 18, 2016 12:17 pm

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 12):
LHR2200-940+1SCL Tues, Thur, Fri & Sun duration 14hrs40mins
SCL1845-1205+1LHR Mon, Wed, Fri & Sat duration 14hrs20mins

I can't understand how BA is willing to keep a new B789 parked in SCL for over 9 hours.

Does BA have spare slots at LHR for a new flight ? Hell NO. Its surprising that such a flight exists at all given how far Chile is and its a place few Brits go to in.

TC957 · Wed May 18, 2016 12:27 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 17):
Does BA have spare slots at LHR for a new flight ? Hell NO.

I'm sure BA will shuffle their existing schedules around to accommodate this new flight, like they do others. Timings look good to max the connection possibilities at both ends.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 17):
its a place few Brits go to in.

There's a significant cruise business out of nearby Valparaiso to start with.

LGAviation · Wed May 18, 2016 12:32 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 18):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 17):
its a place few Brits go to in.

There's a significant cruise business out of nearby Valparaiso to start with.

And Chile's banking sector certainly has connections to the City of London as one of Latin America's leading marketplaces. Besides, this route certainly is also targeted at increasingly wealthy Chileans. If they can make connections work at SCL, it's all the better.

RCS763AV · Wed May 18, 2016 12:51 pm

This is great news, as it was long rumored.

Santiago, for being such a remote destination, has a quite diversified european offer with IB, AF, KL, AZ, LA and now BA on offer. This is sure proof of the success of the chilean economic model.

¿When will LH hop back in and offer a * alliance alternative to Europe?

VFRonTop · Wed May 18, 2016 12:56 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 17):
Does BA have spare slots at LHR for a new flight ? Hell NO. Its surprising that such a flight exists at all given how far Chile is and its a place few Brits go to in.

BA have plenty of spare slots at LHR, (think of all the ex-BMI slots and shorthaul padding they've been doing) what they've been waiting for is longhaul aircraft. Great to see them expanding into new markets.

eastern023 · Wed May 18, 2016 1:01 pm

I am glad to hear this. The coffee (or Twinings Tea I should say) tastes so much better this morning. And non-stop LHR-SCL means that the (very expensive) Heathrow slot should make financial sense to BA. Unlike LIM (to be operated from LGW), SCL is more business premium traffic. I think the flight makes so much sense, especially with the LA code-share. SCL staring to look like a real OneWorld hub. CX or JL next?...one dares to dream.

It will be an uphill for LH to look at a FRA-SCL flight for now...

[Edited 2016-05-18 06:03:35]

[Edited 2016-05-18 06:20:12]

jumpjets · Wed May 18, 2016 1:04 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 17):
Does BA have spare slots at LHR for a new flight ? Hell NO

I think the general view is that since BA acquired BD [and potentially keeping the remedy slots initially used by Virgin Little Red] they have plenty of slots but not the long haul fleet to utilise all those slots to maximum effect. I would imagine BA would happily give up/shuffle a couple of short haul sectors to accommodate this new service.

I am pleased to see the new route and was a little surprised that the new LIM service was from LGW as I would have thought LIM offers a broader range of connections with out all the back tracking that a connection from SCL will entail and was therefore more suited to a LHR service.

descl · Wed May 18, 2016 1:54 pm

Even though this was expected since 2012, I thought they had abandoned the idea, specially since the chilean economy is not doing great these years.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 20):

Santiago, for being such a remote destination, has a quite diversified european offer with IB, AF, KL, AZ, LA and now BA on offer. This is sure proof of the success of the chilean economic model.

I hope there will not be overcapacity, considering Alitalia just started some weeks ago a new FCO - SCL 5 weekly.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 5):
I wonder if they will sell LHR-SCL-AKL flights?

Another way to reach London to New Zealand with one stop

I think they wont. LA SCL - AKL departs at midnight.
They can offer LHR - SCL - SYD, connecting with QF nonstop to SYD. Is it a coincidence that both carriers operate in SCL on same days?

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 16):
Does BA have spare slots at LHR for a new flight ? Hell NO. Its surprising that such a flight exists at all given how far Chile is and its a place few Brits go to in.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 18):
And Chile's banking sector certainly has connections to the City of London as one of Latin America's leading marketplaces. Besides, this route certainly is also targeted at increasingly wealthy Chileans. If they can make connections work at SCL, it's all the better.

I work in a minning company here in Santiago and I see british delgations almost every day.
Also, I remember reading somewhere that in 2012, O&D traffic between Chile and Paris, London, Frankfurt and Stockholm was over 200.000 passengers. therefore, traffic to just those 4 cities could easily fill a plane to London.

a380787 · Wed May 18, 2016 2:16 pm

This route should be of no surprise to anyone, simply BA building off the legacy and strength of IAG sister airline IB on their LatAm presence, as well as closer ties with oneworld partner LATAM.

vv701 · Wed May 18, 2016 2:24 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 17):
Does BA have spare slots at LHR for a new flight ? Hell NO

BA's problem at LHR is using all the slots they have grandfather rights to, not finding new slots. To use and not loose current slots BA have had to wet lease two 737-7s from Jet Time for the whole of the current Summer Timetable. Between them these two aircraft operate a total of 12 LHR slots on most days, a little fewer at weekends.

These 'surplus' slots are, as indicated above, primarily the remedy slots from the purchase of BD that have been returned by Little Red (VS). As a result the number of BA operated LHR weekly slots as at the start of the current Summer Season increased to 5,063, 142 more than at the same time last year.

Although BA may have expected this to happen it is worth noting that following the VS decision to surrender these slots they were, in accordance with the EU agreement, reoffered to the market in August last year. So BA could not be sure they would be returned to them (temporarily or otherwise?) until the late autumn of 2015.

The lease of the two 737s has freed up short-haul aircraft to enable BA to launch several new, often seasonal LHR services at the beginning of this month. New destinations added then included Biarritz, Chania, Inverness, Kalamata, Mahon and Palermo.

As more BA new long-haul aircraft are delivered, both 787s and later 350s, it will not be surprising to see more new BA long-haul destinations from LHR announced utilising slots currently used for short-haul leisure destinations.

LGAviation · Wed May 18, 2016 2:41 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 6):

Quoting LGAviation (Reply 4):
LA has built SCL into a sizable OW hub

True but from London, where on Earth (literally) are you going to fly on to? Easter Island is the only one I can think of. After that it's just penguins.

Have you ever heard of the concept of backtracking. Various Chilean and Argentine cities as well as MVD, LIM (I know there's non-stop service to LGW), UIO, GYE and VVI come to mind (or maybe that's just my personal view having recently connected at SCL from Europe to CJC, AEP and FTE)

a380787 · Wed May 18, 2016 2:47 pm

Quoting LGAviation (Reply 26):

Have you ever heard of the concept of backtracking. Various Chilean and Argentine cities as well as MVD, LIM (I know there's non-stop service to LGW), UIO, GYE and VVI come to mind (or maybe that's just my personal view having recently connected at SCL from Europe to CJC, AEP and FTE)

Some are logical, but flying 3600mi longer with GYE-SCL-LHR is simply called too much time on their hands.

theaviator380 · Wed May 18, 2016 2:58 pm

Our Alexis Sanchez would be a happy bunny...he can now fly non stop from LHR to his home country

IrishAyes · Wed May 18, 2016 3:22 pm

this has been facilitated by the LATAM JV with IAG, which started to materialize earlier this year. Very good news for SCL. That means that in the past five years, SCL has brought in KL, AZ, UX and now BA.

qf002 · Wed May 18, 2016 3:53 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 29):
That means that in the past five years, SCL has brought in KL, AZ, UX and now BA.

And QF.

theginge · Wed May 18, 2016 4:35 pm

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 11):
I can't understand how BA is willing to keep a new B789 parked in SCL for over 9 hours

If it turned around straight away it would end up arriving at LHR in the middle of the night. Then as been pointed out they don't have the spare pre 7am slots available, then you may as well leave it there until 1800, again as has been mentioned to capture the business travel market, who often have a preference for leaving in the evening.

sierra3tango · Wed May 18, 2016 5:26 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 27):

Well there should be the ultimate back track / connection available - Stanley via Cape Horn!

Bongodog1964 · Wed May 18, 2016 5:57 pm

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 11):
I can't understand how BA is willing to keep a new B789 parked in SCL for over 9 hours.

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 11):
The same aircraft could do two full returns from LHR to the US East Coast on the same timeframe.

The schedule isn't as poor for utilisation as you might think, the plane will arrive into LHR during the day and then depart to SCL at 22.00, arriving back 2 days later at 12.05 in time to depart on a USA East Coast route.
Over 2 days thats around 36 hours flying or 18 hours per day.

SCQ83 · Wed May 18, 2016 6:16 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 29):
this has been facilitated by the LATAM JV with IAG, which started to materialize earlier this year. Very good news for SCL. That means that in the past five years, SCL has brought in KL, AZ, UX and now BA.

UX does not fly to SCL anymore. They used to serve it in a very low basis (no joking, I think 1 weekly) and at some point even via SSA (or somewhere in Brazil).

SCL-MAD is hard to compete. There are 17 weekly flights LATAM and IB combined. Since they depart MAD at midnight, 3 days a week there are 3 flights (2 LATAM + 1 IB) departing to Santiago de Chile within half an hour. Quite impressive for such a long flight to the edge of the world.

descl · Wed May 18, 2016 6:40 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 30):
Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 29):That means that in the past five years, SCL has brought in KL, AZ, UX and now BA.
And QF.

And Unted

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 34):
UX does not fly to SCL anymore. They used to serve it in a very low basis (no joking, I think 1 weekly) and at some point even via SSA (or somewhere in Brazil).

They had a 2 weekly operation, with a stop in SSA. Impossible to compete with the nonstops.
I think people in Chile are getting used to fly on nonstop flights, but LAN havent realised that yet, offering 10 flight a week to MAD only, losing market share. They seemed happy by sending passengers through GRU and LIM, but competitors have reacted.

ogre727 · Wed May 18, 2016 6:42 pm

Call me crazy but I am not as excited as I should be. I live in London and fly to Santiago twice a year to visit my parents who live there. However, I am not going to fly on a 787. 3x3x3 sounds absolutely unbearable for such a long flight. You might have your opinions on how the space is the same but my experience will make me prefer a stop in GRU or MAD anytime. Plus its about 200 quid cheaper. Ill take the stop anytime.

airzona11 · Wed May 18, 2016 6:48 pm

Quoting ogre727 (Reply 36):
Call me crazy

I don't think you are the flyer that BA is going after with this flight. They wouldn't launch their longest non-stop flight for VFR traffic.

This is a great Long Haul add and cool to see new aircraft making it possible.

FCAFLYBOY · Wed May 18, 2016 7:38 pm

Congrats to BA and SCL. Great to see BA launching all these new/re-instated routes recently and especially focus on LatAm and Asia where they haven't expanded in a long time.

TedToToe · Wed May 18, 2016 7:45 pm

Quoting airzona11 (Reply 37):
They wouldn't launch their longest non-stop flight for VFR traffic

The fact that they are using a 4 class 787-9 says a lot about their expectations for this route. Their 787-9's are 8F/42J/39W/127Y compared with 35J/25W/154Y on the 787-8.

[Edited 2016-05-18 13:47:20]

FlyCaledonian · Wed May 18, 2016 8:06 pm

Quoting qf789 (Reply 9):
flight schedule is as follows, according to article in start of thread

LHR2200-940+1SCL Tues, Thur, Fri & Sun duration 14hrs40mins
SCL1845-1205+1LHR Mon, Wed, Fri & Sat duration 14hrs20mins

BA251 is the flight number for LHR-SCL and BA250 for SCL-LHR.

theobcman · Wed May 18, 2016 8:14 pm

I realise this is a thread about BA to SCL which is great news but I think we need to give a lot of credit to the B787 - right ? BA have started several routes in last couple of years which are served by the 787, KUL, AUS, SJO, CTU.... I'm sure there are more. Whether BA would have started these routes or not without 787 I'm sure this aircraft has helped with their decision.

There are other airlines showing expansion & new routes with 787 also. DY is one of them.

Ytraveller · Wed May 18, 2016 8:19 pm

Quoting theobcman (Reply 40):
SJO

SJO is operated by the 772.

But yeah many new interesting routes are operated by the 787.

YYZ/YVR-DEL
SFO-TLV/XIY/HGH
DEN-NRT
LAS-ARN/OSL/CPH

theobcman · Wed May 18, 2016 8:26 pm

Quoting ytraveller (Reply 41):

Yes of course. I actually meant SJC - the other one !

eastern023 · Wed May 18, 2016 8:43 pm

I do see IB and AZ adjusting capacity. AZ may down-gauge to A350 when they receive them and IB may do the same. I wonder if KL would split its AMS-EZE-SCL flight and adjust capacities down to the dreamliner. Time will tell, I guess.

UALWN · Wed May 18, 2016 8:51 pm

Quoting ogre727 (Reply 35):
However, I am not going to fly on a 787. 3x3x3 sounds absolutely unbearable for such a long flight.

Last week I flew on a UA 789 TLV-SFO, slightly longer than LHR-SCL, in Y+, and it was OK, even in a full flight. Yes, the seats are slightly narrower than in most other planes, but the lower altitude and higher humidity in the cabin made for a more comfortable flight.

LH506 · Wed May 18, 2016 8:59 pm

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 20):
It will be an uphill for LH to look at a FRA-SCL flight for now...

LH is busy downsizing their network (CCU, HYD, AUH, KUL, SGN, CGK, ACC just to name some) and fleet size (parking of 346) while destroying the trust in LH (conflicts with pilots, flight attendants, ground staff), so no way they will start SCL or LIM in the next 10 years to come. If they are still around in 10 years. Rumour is, next to be cut are BKK, CCS, NKG and HYD. Really frustrating to see this.

Ytraveller · Wed May 18, 2016 10:06 pm

Quoting LH506 (Reply 45):
LH is busy downsizing their network (CCU, HYD, AUH, KUL, SGN, CGK, ACC just to name some) and fleet size (parking of 346) while destroying the trust in LH (conflicts with pilots, flight attendants, ground staff), so no way they will start SCL or LIM in the next 10 years to come. If they are still around in 10 years. Rumour is, next to be cut are BKK, CCS, NKG and HYD. Really frustrating to see this.

HYD and CCU were cut some time ago. With their new India campaign and Jump product I'm hoping to see them return to some of those markets, but nothing so far.

[Edited 2016-05-18 15:07:17]

kq787 · Wed May 18, 2016 11:49 pm

so i guess this means that LATAM will not fly SCL-LHR if BA is flying the route? are they still considering the route?

qf2220 · Thu May 19, 2016 12:44 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 15):

There's actually a pretty big British population in Chile, both expats and descendants of British people. The British are said to have run the Chilean Navy for a period of time, and you can still see their influence in Valparaiso. Additionally, I have read (somewhere, I cant remember where) that Chile and Argentina have been considered defacto members of the Empire at one stage, given the significant trade relations between the two counries and the broader Empire. I remember growing up on my family farm and seeing hessian bags with Puerto Valparaiso on them - they were old bags used to carry perhaps citrus or potatoes or something from Valparaiso to Australia at some stage before we had our own production areas for these crops.

LAX772LR · Thu May 19, 2016 2:15 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 5):
Another way to reach London to New Zealand with one stop.

Sure, if you want to add 2000mi to the more typical HKG/LAX routings.

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