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ASFlyer
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Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Thu May 19, 2016 9:52 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 89):
The information given by the Seattle Pride spokesman indicates - as other posters have mentioned - that the contract had typical, commonly-accepted sponsorship provisions. That is not an assumption; it is based on the evidence given. There is a difference.

This is the same spokesman that has, admittedly, "misinterpreted contractual language" and now resigned. Your statement was as confident as mine was, and you had no more concrete information than I did except that I WAS confident that DL and AS had peacefully co-existed in past events, despite Alaska's sponsorship. That was MY first hand experience. Your information was based on fabrications by someone that was trying to save their ass. Seems to me that you're information isn't quite as solid as mine.

[Edited 2016-05-19 14:55:37]
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Thu May 19, 2016 10:05 pm

Quoting usxguy (Reply 99):
because when you look at every OTHER event Delta sponsors - be it Pride, pilot groups, cancer, etc.. they have NEVER kept other airlines out of the mix; they just prohibit other "major airline" sponsors if they are offered the EXCLUSIVE. I also know this as they've sponsored some cancer society events where a smaller airline was also allowed to participate, and guess what.. Alaska was there, just not as a sponsor!!! oh the horror of facts!

Friends at AirTran say that they were locked out of the Atlanta Pride festivities in the past as DL was the "exclusive sponsor". Does anyone recall whether AirTran has participated in the past? I couldn't find any evidence of them having done so by doing a Google Search. When you're looking at fund raising events, such as "Relay for Life", it goes completely counter to the goals of the group to exclude any group that wishes to help raise money. I can't imagine they offer sponsorship that is exclusive to the point of excluding any other group that wishes to help donate money. The Seattle Pride organization (or any other Pride organization for that matter) shouldn't be excluding other groups either but it's a completely different type of organization then the American Cancer Society. Sports team sponsorship is another completely different animal where exclusive sponsorship is completely acceptable.
 
delimit
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RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Thu May 19, 2016 10:46 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 93):
Keep in mind one of those provisions that is "common" is a non-disparagement provision which means the people receiving the money cannot say anything negative or damaging about the people paying the money. So what we are seeing is the only possible outcome to avoid a breech of the contract regardless of who was at fault. So, we still don't really know who started the attempt to block AS because the parade had to admit fault in any scenario.

FUD.

Quoting enilria (Reply 97):
...and that's exactly why you put non-disparagement language in a marketing contract. It works well.

The existence of the language in the contract does not mean that there was anything that it enforced. The whole line of Big Bully Delta in this thread is completely unsubstantiated.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 101):
When you're looking at fund raising events, such as "Relay for Life", it goes completely counter to the goals of the group to exclude any group that wishes to help raise money. I

It should be noted that, even under the erroneous stringent reading of the contract, the people were never excluded. They were told they would not be able to march in uniform or refer to themselves as the airline. The parade was fine with them marching as GLOBE.
 
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enilria
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RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Thu May 19, 2016 11:32 pm

Quoting delimit (Reply 102):
Quoting enilria (Reply 97):
...and that's exactly why you put non-disparagement language in a marketing contract. It works well.

The existence of the language in the contract does not mean that there was anything that it enforced. The whole line of Big Bully Delta in this thread is completely unsubstantiated.

I have no idea who is at fault here. The optics are that in Atlanta Delta is publicly unhappy they were unable to block a bitter competitor from doing business with a company they sponsor, while in Seattle they are denying they would block a bitter competitor from having their logo on employee shirts in a parade they sponsor. This story is now all over the news and facebook and regardless of guilt, it's a negative. In both cases Delta blamed the other party. The parade and the Fox. I think like anything they need to evaluate whether this was optimally handled and how they can do better in the future.
 
delimit
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RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Fri May 20, 2016 12:00 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 103):
In both cases Delta blamed the other party

Delta didn't "blame" the parade. That's false equivalence. Their actions at the Fox theater are far more questionable.
 
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usxguy
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RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Fri May 20, 2016 12:08 am

because Air Tran never had a gay & lesbian group... ??? (despite the large amount of homosexuals there...)
xx
 
ASFlyer
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Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Fri May 20, 2016 12:12 am

Quoting delimit (Reply 102):
It should be noted that, even under the erroneous stringent reading of the contract, the people were never excluded. They were told they would not be able to march in uniform or refer to themselves as the airline. The parade was fine with them marching as GLOBE.

Yeah, so basically, they could walk through the parade with shirts on that said "GLOBE" so long as they didn't have anything to do with Alaska Airlines on them. They also weren't allowed to explain to anyone, in conversation or by carrying signs or banners, what GLOBE is - Globe is an employee group at Alaska Airlines for the LGBTQ employees. What would have been the point?

Quoting enilria (Reply 103):
I have no idea who is at fault here.

There was so much backpedaling yesterday in the wake of the initial news story, and subsequent debunking of the initial claims of the Seattle Pride Organizations President that it's hard to know who is at fault. The President of the Seattle Pride Organization gave his resignation today, an indication of how serious this was taken by the community in Seattle.
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Fri May 20, 2016 12:16 am

Quoting usxguy (Reply 105):
because Air Tran never had a gay & lesbian group... ??? (despite the large amount of homosexuals there...)

Do they have to be an organization within the airline to be present at the parade? Can't the airline have a presence of their own, represented by their LGBTQ employees? They weren't able to participate in the parade in any event - what does it matter if it's an organization within the airline or a loosely formed group of employees at the airline? Semantics...
 
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usxguy
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RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Fri May 20, 2016 12:25 am

Why is it semantics? Air Tran never sponsored anything gay, as far as I know, and I lived in South Florida when they had a HUGE operation in Ft. Lauderdale, which was probably one of the "few" safe havens for companies celebrating anything gay - in the early 2000s.

I was on the Relay for Life Committee for one of the Relays in Broward and Air Tran always donated tickets, but they never offered $$$ nor wanted to. I think the gay was still not very PC for them to sponsor back then. Heck, even Hillary and Obama didn't support gay marriage back then    

So, we really don't know if Delta has blocked or wanted to block anything in the past.
xx
 
dlflynhayn
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RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Fri May 20, 2016 12:39 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 103):
This story is now all over the news and facebook and regardless of guilt, it's a negative.

Hmmmm i watch news I'm on Facebook 1200 friends hehe and zero on there...The hate on here is crazy you guys need to go to church lol..
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Fri May 20, 2016 12:43 am

Quoting usxguy (Reply 108):
Why is it semantics? Air Tran never sponsored anything gay, as far as I know, and I lived in South Florida when they had a HUGE operation in Ft. Lauderdale, which was probably one of the "few" safe havens for companies celebrating anything gay - in the early 2000s.

I was on the Relay for Life Committee for one of the Relays in Broward and Air Tran always donated tickets, but they never offered $$$ nor wanted to. I think the gay was still not very PC for them to sponsor back then. Heck, even Hillary and Obama didn't support gay marriage back then

So, we really don't know if Delta has blocked or wanted to block anything in the past.

I agree with you, we don't know if Delta has. I have friends that were at Air Tran that say they weren't able to be represented at the Atlanta Pride - I don't know to what extent they tried or what involvement they were attempting. Hard to know now what they did or didn't do in terms of sponsoring gay pride events. As you mention, it's only relatively recently that companies proudly sponsor, even fight over (as we see) the rights to sponsor gay events. In any case, we are where we are. Alaska will participate in the Seattle Pride Parade and festival - to whose chagrin we don't really fully know, and it probably doesn't matter.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Fri May 20, 2016 3:10 am

It's pretty ironic that a movement billed as inclusive will be very exclusive when money is involved.

It sounds like the organization messed up, and DL took advantage by going a step further, one that AS hadn't done in the past. Take it as you wish.
 
delimit
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RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Fri May 20, 2016 12:58 pm

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 106):
Yeah, so basically, they could walk through the parade with shirts on that said "GLOBE" so long as they didn't have anything to do with Alaska Airlines on them. They also weren't allowed to explain to anyone, in conversation or by carrying signs or banners, what GLOBE is - Globe is an employee group at Alaska Airlines for the LGBTQ employees. What would have been the point?

Marching in the parade? What difference does it make what their sign says?

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 111):

It sounds like the organization messed up, and DL took advantage by going a step further, one that AS hadn't done in the past. Take it as you wish.

How is Delta "going a step further" accepting an exclusive sponsorship agreement that the parade offered them and then mishandled?

The parade totally blew how they handled this. What's with the desire to throw blame at Delta in this thread? There's nothing in any of the articles that implies they were complicit, and pretty direct statements that this caught them by surprise.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4514
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RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Fri May 20, 2016 2:04 pm

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 101):
Friends at AirTran say that they were locked out of the Atlanta Pride festivities in the past as DL was the "exclusive sponsor"

that never happened!

Quoting enilria (Reply 103):
I have no idea who is at fault here. T

If you do not know who was at fault here, then you as a moderator ought to examine the facts before making holier than thou statements.
 
 
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enilria
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RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Fri May 20, 2016 3:09 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 113):
Quoting enilria (Reply 103):
I have no idea who is at fault here. T

If you do not know who was at fault here, then you as a moderator ought to examine the facts before making holier than thou statements.

1) Where did I say who was at fault?
2) I'm a moderator now? Cool. I'm kicking half the people off this site!  
 
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mayor
Posts: 6218
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RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Fri May 20, 2016 3:23 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 103):
This story is now all over the news and facebook and regardless of guilt, it's a negative.

Well, you know what they say...........guilty until proven innocent........especially, here on A.net
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
BravoOne
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RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Fri May 20, 2016 4:19 pm

This is like arguing with your wife about something meaningless subject. I guess there is a resemblance
 
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3698
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Fri May 20, 2016 4:54 pm

Quoting delimit (Reply 112):
How is Delta "going a step further" accepting an exclusive sponsorship agreement that the parade offered them and then mishandled?

The parade totally blew how they handled this. What's with the desire to throw blame at Delta in this thread? There's nothing in any of the articles that implies they were complicit, and pretty direct statements that this caught them by surprise.

You answered your own question. DL went a step farther by sponsoring exclusively. On one hand you can say it's business. On another you can say it's a little classless for the cause. On a third, if we had one, it's absolutely ironic.

The organization probably made a mistake by offering exclusivity, and DL was quick to take advantage and limit a particular business. They knew what they were doing, and they wanted AS gone in an official capacity. Only now it may have backfired, greatly hindered by another mess-up by the organization in giving the media incorrect information.
 
toobz
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RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Fri May 20, 2016 5:11 pm

Haha once again emotional Anet members did not wait to get any clarification. So I guess DL isn't the big bad wolf once again.. smdh. The only rivalry between DL and AS exists only on Anet and possibly the headquarters in SEA and ATL. For the record, AS has always been great to DL employees when it comes to nonrev travel. I certainly hope that AS staff have been treated with respect and with kindness by DL.
 
delimit
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RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Fri May 20, 2016 5:13 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 118):
You answered your own question. DL went a step farther by sponsoring exclusively.

Delta accepted a sponsorship opportunity offered by the organizer. It's been mentioned before, but probably bears repeating, offering this type of sponsorship is so common in marketing that anyone expecting this to raise a red flag at a company is being naïve. Go look at other Pride festivals. See how many have multiple airlines. Generally events don't accept sponsorship from competitors. Go look at a baseball stadium. Same deal.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 118):
On another you can say it's a little classless for the cause.

This is the norm at Pride festivals all across the company. The issue has nothing to do with the exclusivity Delta was offered; it has to do with the Parade's interpretation of the contract. How is Delta "classless"? It normally doesn't extend to restrictions around participation. It just keeps competitors of anything produced by the organization.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 118):
The organization probably made a mistake by offering exclusivity, and DL was quick to take advantage and limit a particular business.

Not really. Their mistake was to be overly strict on how they applied that exclusivity.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Fri May 20, 2016 6:51 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 115):
1) Where did I say who was at fault?

Sorry I read wrong
 
n7371f
Posts: 1861
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Sat May 21, 2016 5:07 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 115):
1) Where did I say who was at fault?

You're smarmy. Stick to the terrific flight updates. You're loaded comments clearly left a guilt toward Delta.

Then again I do much the same when it comes to SkyMiles...
 
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usxguy
Posts: 1904
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

RE: Delta Bans AS From Seattle Pride

Sat May 21, 2016 1:20 pm

Aviation + gay + Delta vs Alaska = more drama than watching Bravo TV.

This thread has been fun, but Im out of popcorn...
xx

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