Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13975
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 6:25 am

Quoting litz (Reply 70):
immediate disruption of lift causing an imbalance

Pretty sure it's not imbalance but disruption/buffeting of airflow over the wing, that causes the loss of lift.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
EC135
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2000 2:58 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 6:34 am

According to many sources a hidden bomb is the most likely scenario. I just wonder, does a broken cockpit window explain the scenario not the same? The sudden happening, the rapid descent?
 
B747forever
Posts: 13876
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 6:34 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 25):

Quoting B747forever (Reply 19):
Someone over at flyertalk made the point that it is exactly 804 days since MH370 disappeared. 804 days later and we have MS 804 disappearing.

March 8, 2014 to May 19, 2016 is 803 using the online calendars.

804 according to this http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dura...8&y1=2014&m2=5&d2=19&y2=2016&ti=on
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
Dogbreath
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:49 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 6:41 am

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 60):
Last transmitted info had it cruising along with a brisk tailwind at over 600 mph groundspeed.

It didn't stall. And the data doesn't match AF or AirAsia at all. They didn't just suddenly fall out of the sky like a rock.
Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 69):
With the aircraft upset at 600+ mph gs,

Don't confuse groundspeed with airspeed. At high altitude the groundspeed may well be in excess of 600kts, but the airspeed is the region of 230-250kts.
Any airplane can stall at any speed, at any attitude, with idle thrust or with maximum thrust.

Dog.
Truth, Honour, Loyalty
 
FCAFLYBOY
Posts: 687
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:03 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 6:50 am

German authorities gave the OK for resumption of flight to SSH only early this week. I wonder if that decision may now be reversed in light of this tragedy. One things for sure, it's also another real blow to the Egyptian tourism industry.

[Edited 2016-05-19 23:53:53]
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7918
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 6:51 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 73):
804 according to this http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dura...8&y1=2014&m2=5&d2=19&y2=2016&ti=on

Interesting. I used a couple of others and they gave 803
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 10293
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 7:09 am

Quoting EC135 (Reply 72):
According to many sources a hidden bomb is the most likely scenario. I just wonder, does a broken cockpit window explain the scenario not the same? The sudden happening, the rapid descent?

No. First a cockpit window should not explode without showing cracks before, but even it does it should cause no structural damage and the overpressure would mean that the debris would explode away from the crew at the altitude. Airliners are built so survive a sudden loss of cabin pressure. It would also not turn off the transponder or would make the plane depart controlled flight.

For a scenario like this you need a much bigger fault.

1. bulkhead failure
2. thrust reverse engaging in flight (and even there I am not sure the Transponder would turn off instantly)
3. major structural fault, like the tail or a wing ripping off and taking all electrical connections with it.
 
B787register
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 8:39 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 7:13 am

I used my paper diary and also got 804
David C
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4329
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 7:13 am

Quoting Dogbreath (Reply 74):

Don't confuse groundspeed with airspeed. At high altitude the groundspeed may well be in excess of 600kts, but the airspeed is the region of 230-250kts.
Any airplane can stall at any speed, at any attitude, with idle thrust or with maximum thrust.

I understand it is more complicated than that, but what here do you see that gives even the slightest hint of a stall? We know it was at level flight at cruise with a very normal speed, and certainly theres no reason that would lead to this kind of abrupt end of data. I think there is absolutely nothing to back this theory.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
EMAman
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:13 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 7:14 am

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 69):
I admit terrorism comes to mind first but, I think we need more info first.

The airline, city pair and current climate make this seem 'obvious' to many, and it may well be terrorism, but it is important to remember that this is far from proven. The Egyptians do not have an enviable aviation safety record in many respects, security only being one aspect, and this could prove to be many things yet, and those things just a red herring.

I understand that the US have stated that their initial satellite analysis shows no signs of an explosion, as different to the metrojet disaster where they detected a heat flash and explosion very quickly.

The spiral decent looks like a stall. It seems from an earlier post that the water is 3,000 m (10,000 ft) deep - which would suggest that it may take a while to locate - even Air Asia 8501 took a few days.
 
EMAman
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:13 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 7:18 am

One point which does confuse me is that the ELT beacon was picked up 2 hours after it disappeared? would it not go off on impact? is this an error due to time difference of 2 hrs between egyptian time and GMT? I am confused as to why it would take 2 hours to go off.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 586
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 7:20 am

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 60):
It didn't stall. And the data doesn't match AF or AirAsia at all. They didn't just suddenly fall out of the sky like a rock.

This one didn't fall out of the sky like a rock either. Like the Greek Defence Minister said, they turned sharply left 90 degrees and then a 360 degree spiral to the right whilst descending.
 
jetwet1
Posts: 3330
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 7:25 am

Quoting btfarrwm (Reply 20):
Maybe the plane was hijacked a la 9/11 and the left turn seen by the Greeks was interpreted as a turn towards Israel and the Israelis shot it down.

Interesting idea, but no.

Quoting litz (Reply 38):
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to find out Israel, in particular, has radar with enough definition in the area to track anything larger than larger than a single rivet all the way from cruise to the surface of the sea.
Quoting litz (Reply 38):
Almost every major Western (NATO) power maintains a Naval presence in the Med ... some a fairly good sized major fleet presence. As in possibly Aircraft Carrier + support fleet sized.

You answered this yourself, if Israel or any other country fired off a surface to air or heck even an air to air missile large enough to reach an airliner at 37,000 ft a distance from their coastline, every modern navy ship and certainly the US navy ships in the area would have noticed it.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 14):

I'm sorry to hear that.

Another sad day for the world.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4329
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 7:56 am

Quoting sierrakilo44 (Reply 82):

This one didn't fall out of the sky like a rock either. Like the Greek Defence Minister said, they turned sharply left 90 degrees and then a 360 degree spiral to the right whilst descending.

THanks, I just saw the updated flight model from the radar info. Any idea how long that took?
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
User avatar
77west
Posts: 1010
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:52 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 8:01 am

Quoting EMAman (Reply 80):
The spiral decent looks like a stall. It seems from an earlier post that the water is 3,000 m (10,000 ft) deep - which would suggest that it may take a while to locate - even Air Asia 8501 took a few days.

That was me. Anywhere from around 2500m to 3000m deep in that area. If it made it further north, the seafloor plunges to around 4300m deep.
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
celestar
Posts: 540
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2001 11:37 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 8:13 am

If indeed terriorist attack is being suspected, I wonder why no one has claim responsibility yet?
I tend to think there are other reasons that caused this crash. Fratique? Personal action of the crew?
 
User avatar
hilram
Posts: 754
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:12 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 8:17 am

Quoting celestar (Reply 86):

ISIS has already claimed responsibility, but noone is sure they can be taken seriously yet.
Flown on: A319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343 | B732, 734, 735, 736, 73G, 738, 743, 744, 772, 77W | CRJ9 | BAe-146 | DHC-6, 7, 8 | F50 | E195 | MD DC-9 41, MD-82, MD-87
 
Backseater
Posts: 478
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:20 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 8:18 am

Does anybody have a precise timeline of the events described by Greek Defense Minister Panos Kammenos synced with real (not extrapolated) FR24 data?
From what I gathered, the a/c did not respond to the handoff call from Greek ATC some 2 to 3 minutes before the sharp turns and descent captured by Greek radar. When and where did ADS-B reporting stop?
Unless debris are found today or tomorrow, this new puzzle is IMHO becoming strangely reminiscent of MH370 stealthy disappearance just after a FIR handoff.
 
CO953
Posts: 523
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:05 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 8:24 am

Quoting sierrakilo44 (Reply 82):
This one didn't fall out of the sky like a rock either. Like the Greek Defence Minister said, they turned sharply left 90 degrees and then a 360 degree spiral to the right whilst descending.

TWA 707 - Flight 841 Ionian Sea, 1974?

from Wikipedia: "They watched the aircraft execute a steep climb, followed by the separation of an engine from the wing and the death spiral."

Wasn't there an initial report of a sudden climb?
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 6124
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 8:32 am

SOBHI51, I also feel sad. So few passengers, but one a.nutter is affected.  

I truly hope that during this day the search will make progress...

Quoting B787register (Reply 78):
I used my paper diary and also got 804

Made with the "supposedly educational" software called R:

> mh17 = as.POSIXct("2014-03-08")
> ms804 = as.POSIXct("2016-05-19")
> ms804-mh17
Time difference of 802.9583 days

Perhaps there is some confusion - as both accident flights started on one day, and crashed on the next.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
lancelot07
Posts: 1078
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:22 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 8:38 am

We might as well stop speculating until there are any clues.
 
s5daw
Posts: 348
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 8:15 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 8:44 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 90):
> mh17 = as.POSIXct("2014-03-08")
> ms804 = as.POSIXct("2016-05-19")
> ms804-mh17
Time difference of 802.9583 days

That's confusing. Why does it report a decimal number? Due to daylight savings? In any case, as.Date behaves differently:
> as.Date("2016-05-19")-as.Date("2014-03-08")
Time difference of 803 days
 
Unflug
Posts: 729
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:25 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 8:49 am

May the innocent souls on board rest in peace.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 25):
March 8, 2014 to May 19, 2016 is 803 using the online calendars.
Quoting B747forever (Reply 73):
804 according to this http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dura...8&y1=2014&m2=5&d2=19&y2=2016&ti=on

Only if you set the flag "Include end date", which adds one day. If you set that flag the page shows 2 days from today to tomorrow...

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 76):
Interesting. I used a couple of others and they gave 803

Which is correct.

That number-coincidence nonsense is irrelevant anyway, but it's not even correct.
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 6124
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 9:03 am

Quoting s5daw (Reply 92):
That's confusing. Why does it report a decimal number? Due to daylight savings? In any case, as.Date behaves differently:
> as.Date("2016-05-19")-as.Date("2014-03-08")
Time difference of 803 days

Yes, as 2016-01-01 minus 2014-01-01 gives an exact number of days (both dates are in CET), and 0.9583 days is (with a very small error) 23 hours.

David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
Backseater
Posts: 478
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:20 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 9:07 am

Egyptian Army says that debris and personal effects have been found 290kms north of Alexandria, according to Dora Abdelrazik in Cairo, correspondent for i-tele in France.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4329
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 9:09 am

Reports of located debris starting to come in
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
slinky09
Posts: 662
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:03 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 9:12 am

Egypt says it has found wreckage from the missing EgyptAir plane: "A military spokesman said wreckage and personal belongings of passengers were found 290km off the Egyptian coast, north of the Mediterranean city of Alexandria."
 
a3xx900
Posts: 395
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:03 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 9:13 am

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 69):
Don't know if this has been mentioned but, what about an uncommanded trust reverser deployment on #1 engine. that would explain a sudden left turn. With the aircraft upset at 600+ mph gs, the tail either breaks or the aircraft rolls over onto its back resulting in the right hand spiral at a high rate of speed until the airframe disintegrates. I know it would be extremely rare for an uncommanded thrust reverser deployment but, I am thinking about Lauda 004. I guess a question would be does the TR on Airbus have a mechanical lock to prevent this from happening or is it electrical in nature?

IMHO possible, like any other structural fault.

The interesting fact is, that ADS data just stops. There are no recorded turns, climbs or dives.

If there was a structural fault, a suicidal pilot, highjacking, whatsoever - ADS data would have shown any changes in flight, even just for a little while.

IMHO something must have happened very quickly that lead to a complete and immediate failure of all systems.


BREAKING: Egyptian military says to have found debris along with personal items of pax off Alexandria.
Why is 10 afraid of 7? Because 7 8 9.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3951
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 9:16 am

Quoting Aither (Reply 43):
I find surprising to see so many comments suggesting a bomb could not be placed at CDG. The groundforce at CDG is massively muslim and reports show that many have been suspected of islamic extremism or to have links with islamic extremism. If a bomb has been placed, the most likely scenario is it has been placed at CDG.

The Metrojet crash is generally believed to have been caused by a relatively small explosive device detonated near the rear pressure bulkhead. Egyptian authorities were operating under the impression that the device was provided by ground staff, if I recall correctly. I would wager that the French police are determinedly looking for any ground employee who didn't show up for work at CDG today.

If that is the case, it is almost like a proven way to bring down an aircraft - and this may be deja vu.

Quoting Yakflyer (Reply 58):
Everybody is speculating this was caused by a bomb, but I'm not so sure. The turns that were reported by the news and rapid descent suggest to me the strong possibility of a stall.

If it was an explosion at the rear bulkhead, the loss of rear control surfaces could also result in sudden and violent turns that would be compatible with the description of what happened here.

Quoting celestar (Reply 86):
If indeed terriorist attack is being suspected, I wonder why no one has claim responsibility yet?
I tend to think there are other reasons that caused this crash. Fratique? Personal action of the crew?

One of the scary things about civil aviation these days is the knowledge that all it takes is one conflicted employee to create a catastrophe.



[Edited 2016-05-20 02:42:40]
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
theaviator380
Posts: 682
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:44 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 9:25 am

Quoting a3xx900 (Reply 98):
If there was a structural fault, a suicidal pilot, highjacking, whatsoever - ADS data would have shown any changes in flight, even just for a little while.

If it's a major structural failure and if plane breaks into big chunk suddenly, would it not cause ADS and electronic/electrical systems to seize their operation?
 
User avatar
77west
Posts: 1010
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:52 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 9:37 am

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 97):
Egypt says it has found wreckage from the missing EgyptAir plane: "A military spokesman said wreckage and personal belongings of passengers were found 290km off the Egyptian coast, north of the Mediterranean city of Alexandria."

Seems to be the right area

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b591/77West1/MSR804_zpspsicbzxd.png
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 6124
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 9:53 am

Quoting 77west (Reply 101):

Here is a map of the international waters - in the Mediterrenean Sea, there are none, and given the presumed crash location, chances are not bad that Greece gets to investigate the accident.

http://donutholes.ch/



David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
User avatar
77west
Posts: 1010
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:52 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 9:56 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 102):

Here is a map of the international waters - in the Mediterrenean Sea, there are none, and given the presumed crash location, chances are not bad that Greece gets to investigate the accident.

http://donutholes.ch/



David

It appears you are right: (Although it may be borderline, literally)

 photo msr804-2_zpsmcvwvq71.png

[Edited 2016-05-20 02:57:34]
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 6124
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 10:13 am

And for today, not too strong a wind... nice for the search ops:

http://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/map/wind/europe


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
EMAman
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:13 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 10:17 am

Quoting hilram (Reply 87):
ISIS has already claimed responsibility, but noone is sure they can be taken seriously yet.

They would always claim it, whether they did it or not. They are such propaganda junkies.
 
User avatar
saleya22r
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:13 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 10:17 am

Maritime(territorial) boundaries usually are 12 NM, does it make any difference in the search here? For example, Russian military using the narrow corridor in the Gulf of Finland, between Estonia and Finland? I am no expert in this, just asking..
 
EMAman
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:13 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 10:19 am

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 99):
If it was an explosion at the rear bulkhead, the loss of rear control surfaces could also result in sudden and violent turns that would be compatible with the description of what happened here.

The early indications from US satellite records is that there was no explosion
 
User avatar
Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2334
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 10:27 am

Quoting EMAman (Reply 107):
The early indications from US satellite records is that there was no explosion

But what if the explosion was initially contained within the aircraft, would they still spot it? I have no idea what those satellites detect but if it is a heat flash, then maybe a small explosion wouldn't get noticed, but would still be enough to bring the plane down. How was this in the case of the Metrojet plane?
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
oly720man
Posts: 5813
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 10:30 am

Debris has now been found, according to the BBC quoting Egyptian sources

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36339614

Debris from the missing EgyptAir flight has been found floating in the Mediterranean, officials say.
Flight MS804 was en route from Paris to Cairo with 66 passengers and crew when it vanished early on Thursday.
Egypt's army spokesman said wreckage and passenger belongings were found 290km (180 miles) from Alexandria.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4329
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 10:35 am

Quoting EMAman (Reply 107):

The early indications from US satellite records is that there was no explosion

These would register with heat. Surely if a fuel tank was impacted there would be a fiery explosion that would register but i doubt a scenario like the metrojet crash would.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 6124
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 11:10 am

Quoting saleya22r (Reply 106):
Maritime(territorial) boundaries usually are 12 NM, does it make any difference in the search here? For example, Russian military using the narrow corridor in the Gulf of Finland, between Estonia and Finland? I am no expert in this, just asking..

"International waters" are those that are not tied to any country, so I understand that international waters only begin after the 200 nm economic exclusion zone. Inside the 12 nm, the country has the full sovereign rights, while the exclusive right to exploit the sea commercially (757s circling over the sea, looking out for fresh fish) stops at 200 nm.


Here is some information on some passengers, among them a photographer who was looking for his lost passport for days, fearing he could not depart...

http://www.smh.com.au/world/french-p...-flight-ms804-20160519-gozfwg.html



David

[Edited 2016-05-20 04:18:24]
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
Koosi
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 12:57 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 11:19 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 111):
"International waters" are those that are not tied to any country, so I understand that international waters only begin after the 200 nm economic exclusion zone

The 200 nm EEZ limit only gives control over very specific (mostly related to exploitation of natural resources) activites. For other purposes it is very much part of the high seas (if my understanding is correct).

The UN Convention on the Law of the Sea can be found here:
http://www.un.org/depts/los/conventi...reements/texts/unclos/unclos_e.pdf
 
User avatar
GlenP
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:33 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 11:30 am

Quoting hilram (Reply 87):
ISIS has already claimed responsibility, but noone is sure they can be taken seriously yet.

Sorry but that statement is incorrect. To quote the BBC's latest report, as yet no terrorist group has claimed responsibility for the loss of this aircraft.

( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-africa-36328976 )

"Mina Al-Lami, a jihadist media expert for the BBC Monitoring team, says there has so far been “no credible indication” to suggest that the so-called Islamic State (IS) or any other jihadist group was involved in the aircraft’s disappearance.

“Certainly there has been no claim of responsibility,” she said, adding that IS usually claims responsibility “within hours” of an attack.

“Usually these claims of responsibility are preceded by frenzied chatter by its supporters online. This hasn’t happened in the case of the Egyptian airliner.”
Ubique Quo Fas et Gloria Ducunt
 
theaviator380
Posts: 682
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:44 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 11:42 am

I am not jumping to any conclusion but let's consider hypothetical situation of bomb/terror attack.

Would there be any reason why no organization has taken any responsibility yet?
 
JFK31R
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:47 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 11:48 am

I said it in earlier thread, but with how much safer flying is today, it's easy to assume that something truly sinister would have to occur to make a plane crash. But with what we've learned from some recent investigations (AF447, Air Asia), anything is possible.

Whether it's a terrorism, or yet another high altitude loss of control, the outcome will be awful.
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 6124
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 11:54 am

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 114):
Would there be any reason why no organization has taken any responsibility yet?

No. It's deafening that no organization has assumed responsibility, and we have quite a few observers who look into islamist web forums.

The islamists have a huge incentive to say it was an act to punish these godless westerners - just to pander to their own gullible audience. But nothing so far. Perhaps because it would not be wise to gloat over the deaths of fellow Muslims. Attacking tourists who basically go to Egypt for "prostitution" - to party hard, swim in the sea, have a jolly nice time in exchange for money - makes more sense.

Quoting Koosi (Reply 112):
The 200 nm EEZ limit only gives control over very specific (mostly related to exploitation of natural resources) activites. For other purposes it is very much part of the high seas (if my understanding is correct).

Well, I'm not sure either. My fear is that if Egypt gets to investigate, it can be quite bungled. We all know that "elevator malfunction" is another term for "suicide". Perhaps "stabilizers failed to point the plane into the right direction" will be the euphemism for "stall caused by loss of spatial awareness".


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
Flanders
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:38 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 12:04 pm

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 114):

I am not jumping to any conclusion but let's consider hypothetical situation of bomb/terror attack.
Would there be any reason why no organization has taken any responsibility yet?

If a bomb was brought on board at CDG, it could be the work of a small not too well organized terrorist cell.
It is often believed that local terrorist cells get their instructions from the big leaders far away in the ISIS territory.
I seriously doubt this is always the case. I think many cells are actually working on their own.
I would not be surprised if this is the work of just one person or a few people... whom are now on the run.

However... pure speculation of course...
 
rbrunner
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:13 am

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 12:05 pm

Quoting JFK31R (Reply 115):
something truly sinister would have to occur to make a plane crash. But with what we've learned from some recent investigations (AF447, Air Asia), anything is possible.

Very right you are!!!
RIP to all lost souls.
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 12:50 pm

48 hours and no passenger list yet. Why?
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
theaviator380
Posts: 682
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:44 pm

RE: Egypt Air 804 Paris-Cairo Missing Part 3

Fri May 20, 2016 12:54 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 119):
48 hours and no passenger list yet. Why?

Communication and PR failure?

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos