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fokkerf28
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Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 1:32 pm

I was wondering if Piedmont would replace the Dash 8's with another turboprop or go to all jet.

http://atwonline.com/airframes/piedm...2=5934f13cd6de4e20891f013ce4db712b
 
commavia
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 1:57 pm

Given that most of the current Eagle Q100/Q300 missions out of PHL/CLT are relatively short, I suspect the best (possibly only) viable long-term solution is, if anything, the ATR. The Q400 seems less ideal for such short flights, although AA/Eagle may ultimately decide to shift what prop missions they can to 50-seat RJs and just cut the rest.
 
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 1:59 pm

Considering Piedmont is taking some of the Envoy E145's, I think that's partially the answer.

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washingtonflyer
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 2:00 pm

Q400 or the ATR. AA may still have a sour taste in its mouth after Roselawn..... (regardless of how long ago that was)...
 
iceberg210
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 2:11 pm

It's airlines like Piedmont where I wonder if a renewed SAAB 340/2000 would be a great fit for the airline. Two types for 35-55 seats with lots of shared parts etc.

Granted it's probably a pipe dream but still with a lot of 50 seater RJ's either going to be replaced or parked soonish, and nothing in the 30 seat market seems like there is definitely an opening, whether there is enough return in the opening for someone is a completely different question... Who knows maybe an opening for the TRP328?
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Adipasquale
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 2:27 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 2):
Considering Piedmont is taking some of the Envoy E145's, I think that's partially the answer.

The E45s Piedmont is taking are not to replace Dashes, but to expand on the routes they already fly (at least in the next five or so years). My understanding is that the Dashes will stay in the fleet until at least 2020, after that, it's a good guess they will be replaced with 50 seat RJs. On a side note does BBD still offer the Dash in any variant other than the -400? The last Q200s and Q300s I see were delivered in 2009.
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msp747
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 2:45 pm

Quoting Adipasquale (Reply 5):
On a side note does BBD still offer the Dash in any variant other than the -400? The last Q200s and Q300s I see were delivered in 2009.

No, they don't. However, I've always wondered if the line can eventually be restarted. I'm guessing it would take a lot of order commitments for BBD to commit to it though, since the design would probably need significant updates and they'd probably have to develop a new engine for it.
 
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JBo
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 2:59 pm

Quoting msp747 (Reply 6):
No, they don't. However, I've always wondered if the line can eventually be restarted. I'm guessing it would take a lot of order commitments for BBD to commit to it though, since the design would probably need significant updates and they'd probably have to develop a new engine for it.
Quoting iceberg210 (Reply 4):
It's airlines like Piedmont where I wonder if a renewed SAAB 340/2000 would be a great fit for the airline. Two types for 35-55 seats with lots of shared parts etc.

I sincerely believe that, at some point, there will be enough market demand for a small turboprop (smaller than the current Q400 and ATR offerings) that someone will develop it. Whether it'll be an updated version of an existing type or a clean-sheet design, I have no idea.

It wouldn't be impossible for BBD to develop a new generation of smaller Dash-8s based on the current Q400, but I don't think we'll see that happen for a long time, at least not until we see how the Cseries ultimately plays out.

It also wouldn't be impossible for Embraer to develop a nextgen version of the Brasilia, either.

I guess we'll see what happens 5-10 years from now.  
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FWAERJ
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 3:18 pm

ATR made CLT a stop on their US promotional tour, so I guess it's either them or the Q400.

And keep in mind that AA's contract with the APA has no scope clause limit for turboprops. AA could use Piedmont with either the Q400 or ATR as a way to replace the 50-seat RJs on the really short routes from DFW and ORD where a turboprop is best in addition to the L-US hubs.
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fokkerf28
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 3:26 pm

The article states that certain airports can only be served with the Dash, so either you drop those cities or you spend the money for costly life extension to keep the aircraft flying.


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This Dash got a new glass cockpit upgrade.
 
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tavong
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 3:31 pm

Quoting JBo (Reply 7):

It wouldn't be impossible for BBD to develop a new generation of smaller Dash-8s based on the current Q400, but I don't think we'll see that happen for a long time, at least not until we see how the Cseries ultimately plays out.

I think is the contrary, Q400 are largely based on the Dash-8-300, BBD never optimized the -300 (the "so called" -Q300 is a minor update over the -300) and decided to play on that market full with the -Q400. I don´t think BBD has the interest or money to invest in a clean sheet model or even a "shrink" over the Dash-8-Q400.

ATR on other hand always offered both models, leaving them virtually without competition n the 50seats market.

https://leehamnews.com/2014/12/15/the-challenges-in-bringing-a-new-turboprop-to-market/

The 50 seat regional jet market has been discussed on other forums but in resume that market is pretty much dying.


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JBo
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 4:50 pm

Quoting tavong (Reply 10):
The 50 seat regional jet market has been discussed on other forums but in resume that market is pretty much dying.

The main reason that market is dying, though, is because 50-seat jets aren't nearly as efficient as either their larger counterparts or as 30-50 seat props.

On one hand, not every market adapts as well to fewer frequencies on larger 70-pax aircraft.
On the other, the airlines are more or less unwilling to operate smaller props on routes where they would actually be efficient and profitable because they're props.

So many markets are falling by the wayside simply because the optimal aircraft for those routes just aren't being operated anymore.
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bigb
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 4:55 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 8):
ATR made CLT a stop on their US promotional tour, so I guess it's either them or the Q400.

And keep in mind that AA's contract with the APA has no scope clause limit for turboprops. AA could use Piedmont with either the Q400 or ATR as a way to replace the 50-seat RJs on the really short routes from DFW and ORD where a turboprop is best in addition to the L-US hubs.

That was mainly due to the Regional Airline Association conference in CLT last week. I actually saw it at FBO ramp there.
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iceberg210
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 5:56 pm

Quoting JBo (Reply 7):
It wouldn't be impossible for BBD to develop a new generation of smaller Dash-8s based on the current Q400, but I don't think we'll see that happen for a long time, at least not until we see how the Cseries ultimately plays out.

It also wouldn't be impossible for Embraer to develop a nextgen version of the Brasilia, either.

If Embraer were to do that I think it'd make a lot of sense to do a two model family, one the size of the Brasilia, one the size of the ERJ145. The crosssection of 1-2 works better for 50 seats (in terms of efficiency) than 2-2. I think that's part of why the DHC8 100 and 200 while they could come back, wouldn't be as optimized as a Saab 340-2000 or EMB120 150 say. With the ERJ line still being able to build one off EMB120's and that line being MUCH slower than it was a few years back, one would think it'd be a really nice way to better leverage that line, and the investments they have sunk in it. That's why if I had my bet I would say Embraer has the best shot at bringing something into that market segment. It fits with their current manufacturing, they've got something they can pretty easily update, and it takes advantage of extra manufacturing capacity.

Another option I suppose is pulling out the old Jetstream again. You've got the 41 and 31, probably be best to drop the 31 and develop a 51 sort of thing, I don't even know if Bae has any of the toolings or owns the designs anymore, but that probably would never happen with them being in the same consortium with ATR.

Honestly it'd be tough sledding for any of these options but I do think taking and updating an existing design is probably the only way to go. There is a market I'm convinced and there is a place to get some ROI, but in order to do so you'd have to minimize your investment on the front end and the best way to do that is to use a design that already exists and optimize it to today's standards. Skywest put their EMB120's to rest in large part due to maintenance of the old frames, not as much the efficiency etc, Piedmont is talking about retiring their DHC8's because of cycles, etc. If you could do a redesign that helps operating costs by 20 percent versus a new design that helps operating costs 25 percent it still would probably make more sense to go with the redesign (note I'm pulling these numbers out of a hat as examples). The efficiency gain of a clean sheet (much like in other markets of aviation) wont' be high enough to pay for the extra development cost. Also an added bonus to utilizing an already existing design especially for a manufacture that either buys the type certificate or supports the type already is you have a built in customer base for parts, and also knowledge of the airframe. It probably would have made no sense for Viking aircraft to develop a new 19 seater STOL aircraft, but updating the Twin Otter has turned out very well for them. I think another company doing the same thing with a 30-50 seat (two model family) turboprop could also be very successful. Especially if you did kind of what SAAB inadvertently did where the 30 seater is more traditional slower, simpler, and the 50 seater would be more aimed at replacing regional jets.
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 6:03 pm

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 3):
Q400 or the ATR. AA may still have a sour taste in its mouth after Roselawn..... (regardless of how long ago that was)...

Well, the A300 going down in NYC and being blamed on faulty AA training procedures did not prevent AA from purchasing a boatload of Airbus a/c, so if they need something smaller than the Q400 and it must be a turbo prop, the only name available if ATR, so I would expect them to order the a/c, all politics aside.
 
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 6:22 pm

I personally prefer the Dash over the ATR but that being said, AA could have some relatively low acquisition costs because I believe all of the old 72-212s are sitting in Kingman AZ. I believe there are about 15 of them that never found new homes but I believe are still intact.

That being said, most markets EN flies are markets that don't need more than 50 seats and only HHH is truly performance limited. But the Q4 would be a great addition for certain routes. The only problem is who to place it with.
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fokkerf28
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 6:22 pm

The only option for a 50 seater currently is the ATR-42-600 . It would be intersesting to see if Piedmont would consider the ATR.
 
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 6:56 pm

Would love to see Piedmont get the ATR 42-600 and 72-600.. A lot of the RJ routes don't really need the RJ.. and it could open up some additional routes that don't see service.. some small NC towns to major cities on the east coast would be good.. even if only 5x weekly..

but I don't think AA has the desire for such things.. could Piedmont, even though they are wholely owned subsidiary, do some at-risk flying?
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tavong
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 6:58 pm

Quoting fokkerf28 (Reply 16):

The only option for a 50 seater currently is the ATR-42-600 . It would be intersesting to see if Piedmont would consider the ATR.

If they want 50 seaters they are pretty mucho stuck with ATR unless they want to go with Chinese planes (highly unlikely)

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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 8:09 pm

I am not an expert, but staking your future on the viability of 50-seat regional jets sounds like a super bad plan, Piedmont. (Then again, when 50-seat RJs were all the rage the bottom of the market was the Dash 8's and Saabs, so now that the 50-seaters are being pushed up to 70-seaters maybe the 30-seat prop market will push up a little bit as well and their small niche market will be taken over by 50-seat RJs.)
 
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 8:49 pm

Seems like the Envoy E145s being transferred could be the first of many if Envoy gets awarded additional E175s.

Is it realistic that all MQ E145s could be moved to Piedmont and the Dash-8s retired?
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 8:56 pm

Quoting iceberg210 (Reply 13):
If Embraer were to do that I think it'd make a lot of sense to do a two model family, one the size of the Brasilia, one the size of the ERJ145. The crosssection of 1-2 works better for 50 seats (in terms of efficiency) than 2-2. I think that's part of why the DHC8 100 and 200 while they could come back, wouldn't be as optimized as a Saab 340-2000 or EMB120 150 say. With the ERJ line still being able to build one off EMB120's and that line being MUCH slower than it was a few years back, one would think it'd be a really nice way to better leverage that line, and the investments they have sunk in it. That's why if I had my bet I would say Embraer has the best shot at bringing something into that market segment. It fits with their current manufacturing, they've got something they can pretty easily update, and it takes advantage of extra manufacturing capacity.

Another option I suppose is pulling out the old Jetstream again. You've got the 41 and 31, probably be best to drop the 31 and develop a 51 sort of thing, I don't even know if Bae has any of the toolings or owns the designs anymore, but that probably would never happen with them being in the same consortium with ATR.

Honestly it'd be tough sledding for any of these options but I do think taking and updating an existing design is probably the only way to go. There is a market I'm convinced and there is a place to get some ROI, but in order to do so you'd have to minimize your investment on the front end and the best way to do that is to use a design that already exists and optimize it to today's standards. Skywest put their EMB120's to rest in large part due to maintenance of the old frames, not as much the efficiency etc, Piedmont is talking about retiring their DHC8's because of cycles, etc. If you could do a redesign that helps operating costs by 20 percent versus a new design that helps operating costs 25 percent it still would probably make more sense to go with the redesign (note I'm pulling these numbers out of a hat as examples). The efficiency gain of a clean sheet (much like in other markets of aviation) wont' be high enough to pay for the extra development cost. Also an added bonus to utilizing an already existing design especially for a manufacture that either buys the type certificate or supports the type already is you have a built in customer base for parts, and also knowledge of the airframe. It probably would have made no sense for Viking aircraft to develop a new 19 seater STOL aircraft, but updating the Twin Otter has turned out very well for them. I think another company doing the same thing with a 30-50 seat (two model family) turboprop could also be very successful. Especially if you did kind of what SAAB inadvertently did where the 30 seater is more traditional slower, simpler, and the 50 seater would be more aimed at replacing regional jets.

Good example using the Twin Otter, I too wander why Embraer has not updated the 120 and stretch it. EMB had a 19 seat prototype based on the same cross section of the 120 but with propellers by the tail in a push configuration, nothing became of it. I also think the BAE angle is dead too, though I wander who has the rights to the SAAB340 design.
 
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Thu May 19, 2016 10:43 pm

Quoting william (Reply 21):
It probably would have made no sense for Viking aircraft to develop a new 19 seater STOL aircraft, but updating the Twin Otter has turned out very well for them.

Viking holds all manufacturing rights from the DHC Beaver to the Dash 7. It would be interesting to see if they could get the DHC-8-100/300 rights from BBD, but I believe tooling has been destroyed for the smaller Dash 8's. Then again, I also believe that they had to re-tool for the Twin Otter (correct me if I am wrong)...

Checked on the Embraer site, and there is no longer mention of the EMB120. Not sure when they discontinued their 30 seater?
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Fri May 20, 2016 1:12 am

I keep reading that turboprops are the way to go on certain routes to maximize profitability, but no one's flying the ATR in the U.S.; the Q400 has had only modest penetration of the market (and even it is seeing retirements); and no one's manufacturing smaller turboprops that are actually being purchased by U.S. carriers.

Sooooo...when's this turboprop revolution going to occur?
 
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Fri May 20, 2016 2:11 am

Quoting fokkerf28 (Reply 9):

This Dash got a new glass cockpit upgrade.

I'm pretty sure the Dash 200/300 came to market with glass cockpits. They weren't as sophisticated as what the Q400 has, but that picture looks like the traditional 200 cockpit.

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 22):
I believe tooling has been destroyed for the smaller Dash 8's

How much of the tooling was unique to the smaller Dash planes? Seems like most of the equipment would be redundant with the Q400
 
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Fri May 20, 2016 7:27 am

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 23):
but no one's flying the ATR in the U.S.

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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Mon May 23, 2016 1:37 am

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 23):

I keep reading that turboprops are the way to go on certain routes to maximize profitability, but no one's flying the ATR in the U.S.; the Q400 has had only modest penetration of the market (and even it is seeing retirements); and no one's manufacturing smaller turboprops that are actually being purchased by U.S. carriers.

Sooooo...when's this turboprop revolution going to occur?

There will be, everything is cyclical. Before Regional airlines they were commuter airlines. Commuters will make a comeback.
 
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Mon May 23, 2016 1:47 am

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 22):

Quoting william (Reply 21):
It probably would have made no sense for Viking aircraft to develop a new 19 seater STOL aircraft, but updating the Twin Otter has turned out very well for them.

Viking holds all manufacturing rights from the DHC Beaver to the Dash 7. It would be interesting to see if they could get the DHC-8-100/300 rights from BBD, but I believe tooling has been destroyed for the smaller Dash 8's. Then again, I also believe that they had to re-tool for the Twin Otter (correct me if I am wrong)...

Checked on the Embraer site, and there is no longer mention of the EMB120. Not sure when they discontinued their 30 seater?

Sad to read that about the Emb120. If Viking holds the rights to the Dash 7 maybe they could start the line again if a business case(i.e. Orders) could be found. I know Rio Airways back in the day wanted to trade their Dash 8s for Dash 7 s because they were more economical. Do not know how a Dash 7 would match up to a Saab340 economic wise.
 
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Mon May 23, 2016 11:23 am

I don't see any manufacturer restarting or commencing production for a one-time order of 25 aircraft (Piedmont's -100 and -200 fleet count).

My feel is that its going to be ATR 42s, E-145s or Q-400s. I guess you could throw in the Saab-2000 which is still technically produced in the military version, but I know nothing of its operational abilities in the passenger arena (CASM, difficulty to operate, etc.).

I had heard somewhere that the costs of operating a -Q400 are the same if not a bit lower than an E-145 (even with the additional FA). If you're going to expend money, might as well go for the more efficient plane.... Of course, there is the passenger aversion to anything with a propeller.......
 
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Mon May 23, 2016 11:40 am

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 23):
I keep reading that turboprops are the way to go on certain routes to maximize profitability, but no one's flying the ATR in the U.S.; the Q400 has had only modest penetration of the market (and even it is seeing retirements); and no one's manufacturing smaller turboprops that are actually being purchased by U.S. carriers.

Sooooo...when's this turboprop revolution going to occur?
Quoting william (Reply 26):
There will be, everything is cyclical. Before Regional airlines they were commuter airlines. Commuters will make a comeback.

Delta's take on this revolution is that passengers can drive to bigger airports, from which DL Connection will operate bigger aircraft. CR2s replaced Saab 340s; CR9s replaced CR2s. Destination count dropped by 20 or so. Average gauge and stage length have been rising steadily across the U.S. industry. IMHO there will be no new popular gen of turbo prop to serve the 37-50 seat markets.
 
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Mon May 23, 2016 12:34 pm

The other option is to reduce frequency somewhat but increase aircraft size.

Take CLT-EWN. 6 daily flights with five being Dash 8 equipment. These are Q300s and one CR2. 300 seats total.

You could reduce this to 4x or 5x daily with a Q400.
 
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Mon May 23, 2016 7:48 pm

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 28):
I guess you could throw in the Saab-2000 which is still technically produced in the military version,

Is that true? I was unaware and thought the only ones being made were modifications. That'd be amazing if true! Make it a whole lot easier to get it back in the market...
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Mon May 23, 2016 7:54 pm

Quoting fokkerf28 (Reply 9):
The article states that certain airports can only be served with the Dash, so either you drop those cities or you spend the money for costly life extension to keep the aircraft flying.

I'm pretty sure within the next 1-3 years there should be some pretty late build Q300s on the market, NZ's ones are from the mid 2000s are currently buying ATR 72-600s like crazy. So its likely the Q300s days in there fleet are numberd.
 
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Mon May 23, 2016 9:05 pm

I thought ATR's had trouble with icing in cold climates? What about Commutair? There Dash's aren't getting any younger.
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RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Mon May 23, 2016 9:52 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 33):
I thought ATR's had trouble with icing in cold climates? What about Commutair? There Dash's aren't getting any younger.

That was overcome with the -500/600 models.
 
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Re: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:28 pm

Piedmont Airlines announced an expansion of their E-145 fleet and will be retiring their entire Dash-8 fleet at a rate of 1 per month. The Piedmont fleet is expected to be all jet by the year 2020.

http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/nor ... jet-fleet/

http://salisburyindependent.net/wicomic ... jet-fleet/

"Piedmont Airlines is further expanding its fleet of Embraer 145 regional jets with accelerated deliveries of aircraft from American Airlines starting in early 2017.

American had previously committed 20 jets to Piedmont and we are pleased that our parent company will now continue to increase that number. The expanding fleet of jets puts Piedmont on an exciting path to the future, and that will lead to even more opportunities.”

Piedmont began operating the E145 regional jet in February, and has taken delivery of seven jets so far. All Piedmont jets will operate out of the American Airlines Philadelphia hub.

“We will greatly expand our operations in Philadelphia, including placing more crew members there,” said Hogg.

As a result of the accelerated jet expansion, Piedmont will begin to transition away from its traditional aircraft, the de Havilland DHC-8 turboprop. Piedmont expects to start retiring turboprop aircraft at a rate of about one aircraft per month.

“The Dash has served us well for years,” said Hogg, “but we know that passengers prefer the regional jets and we want to provide the best service we can for American and for our customers.”
 
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Re: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:06 pm

Sadly, the majors have said good-bye to the turbo prop and 50 passenger jets. I love the Q400 and think there is still a use for it. Since the majors are removing it from there fleets, I think it opens an opportunity for a small airline to jump in.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:55 am

Beatyair wrote:
Sadly, the majors have said good-bye to the turbo prop and 50 passenger jets. I love the Q400 and think there is still a use for it. Since the majors are removing it from there fleets, I think it opens an opportunity for a small airline to jump in.


50-seaters will be with us for a while. The turboprops, though, are history with the legacy carriers.
 
toltommy
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Re: RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:20 am

StrandedAtMKG wrote:
I am not an expert, but staking your future on the viability of 50-seat regional jets sounds like a super bad plan, Piedmont.


Piedmont didn't make the decision. American decided to move those 145's to Piedmont. American has decided to keep the 145 at Envoy longer than they intended now, but those planes could be moved to Envoy, now that they've added the plane to their certificate.
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Varsity1
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Re: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:11 am

Piedmont will end up with all the 50 seat RJ's, Envoy the 175's and PSA the CRJ's.
 
zkncj
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Re: RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:04 am

Adipasquale wrote:
My understanding is that the Dashes will stay in the fleet until at least 2020, after that, it's a good guess they will be replaced with 50 seat RJs. On a side note does BBD still offer the Dash in any variant other than the -400? The last Q200s and Q300s I see were delivered in 2009.


NZ currently has the newest Q300's in service and they operate the last built, they have 23 which are 2009-2009 models. If Piedmont we're to offer the right price I would say NZ would sell them too Piedmont, while purchasing more 72/42-600 to replace the Q300s to simplify there own fleet.
 
xcltflyboy
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Re: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:55 am

So does this mean an end of commercial air service at Hilton Head?
 
iceberg210
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Re: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:30 pm

Oddly enough even though they're replacing the props, they're replacing them with used aircraft so this question will come up again. Probably it's a really smart move, get another 5-10 years out to further decide on whether the market needs to be serviced or not, and buys them time to look for a new replacement if they want down the road. Still makes me think that there's a demand there to replace those ERJ145's in that same market segment. Would be more discouraged if they were dropping that flying completely instead of utilizing aircraft that still have some life in them but basically are there because they're already paid for and can handle the routes without expensive life extensions like the Dash's would have to go through.
Erik Berg
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GoHokies
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Re: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:59 am

xcltflyboy wrote:
So does this mean an end of commercial air service at Hilton Head?


Well it is going to take up to 4 years for all the Dash-8s to be replaced by E-145s, so I doubt there will be immediate changes, but it will be interesting to see if switching to E-145s causes some destinations to see reduced frequencies or lose service altogether.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:02 am

Wonder if AA will contract with a carrier like Silver to run some SF-340s into the most difficult of fields.
 
micstatic
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Re: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:05 pm

also wonder what this means for New Haven, CT (HVN)?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: RE: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:37 pm

zkncj wrote:
NZ currently has the newest Q300's in service and they operate the last built, they have 23 which are 2009-2009 models. If Piedmont we're to offer the right price I would say NZ would sell them too Piedmont, while purchasing more 72/42-600 to replace the Q300s to simplify there own fleet.


AA has very ample economies of scale to enjoy big discounts with Bombardier or Embraer. AA wouldn't give NZ anything like a premium price for used Q300s.

Remember when Boeing balked when Delta talked about buying used 777s at $10 mil each? And then Delta came back and said, '$10 mil was too high. We got it for $7.7 mil.' http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... stock-gain

And here is the reg history. https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... -Air-Lines

Big carriers don't pay big bucks.
 
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Adipasquale
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Re: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:07 am

With the announcement that all PT's Dash-8s will be retired by 2020, is it safe to assume that the repainting of the rest of the -100s will stop?
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hufftheweevil
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Re: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:23 am

Adipasquale wrote:
With the announcement that all PT's Dash-8s will be retired by 2020, is it safe to assume that the repainting of the rest of the -100s will stop?


And fly US Airways Express branded aircraft for another 3-4 years? I highly doubt it. This merger of brands has gone on long enough.

Besides, I think you (and many others) have misread the original Piedmont announcement which said that they "expect to be all jet by 2020". That doesn't mean Dash 8s are already on the chopping block. It's just a general plan. Things could change.
Huff
 
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Adipasquale
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Re: Replacement Dash-8 For Piedmont

Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:50 am

hufftheweevil wrote:
And fly US Airways Express branded aircraft for another 3-4 years? I highly doubt it. This merger of brands has gone on long enough.

All of the -300s and about one third of the -100s are already repainted, so if the targeted retirement date for the last Dash-8 is 2020, and assuming the LUS painted ships are retired first, there are almost two years worth of retirements of newly painted birds, meaning the last LUS Dash would be retired in mid-2018.
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