Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 15286
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Mon May 30, 2016 8:18 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 98):
So largely the same as the A350-1000 vs the 77W?

No, a.net logic is that technology improvements means Boeing aircraft get better and Airbus aircraft get worse.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
User avatar
EPA001
Posts: 3893
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:13 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Mon May 30, 2016 9:32 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 91):
Yes, it's an efficiency advancement in most conceivable ways, but there's no real quantum leap in tech nor capability.

Funny that when the B787 was introduced it was conceived as the best thing ever to show up in civil aviation compared to the A330. Now when the tables are turned this is suddenly not the case anymore?   .

Quoting scbriml (Reply 94):
If it isn't going to beat the 77W by a considerable margin, Boeing wouldn't have launched the 77X.

  .

And therefore an A350-1000 would imho be an excellent choice for Virgin to replace their B747's and A346's.
 
User avatar
Thunderboltdrgn
Posts: 2113
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:39 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:05 am

Announcement may come soon: http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/air...es-a350-orders-soon-104633270.html

[Edited 2016-06-02 04:06:29]
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
User avatar
EPA001
Posts: 3893
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:13 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:07 pm

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 102):
Announcement may come soon:

Probably at Farnborough I would expect.  
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13349
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:39 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 98):
So largely the same as the A350-1000 vs the 77W?

Well, if you call only matching about 2 of those "largely the same," then I guess you could say that.


Quoting EPA001 (Reply 101):
Funny that when the B787 was introduced it was conceived as the best thing ever to show up in civil aviation compared to the A330. Now when the tables are turned this is suddenly not the case anymore?

No idea why you're asking me, as I'd rather be on an A350 than a 787 any day.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
User avatar
Ncfc99
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:42 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 55):
The 787/A350 are efficient, but they're not *THAT* efficient over to late model 777s such that the multi-million dollar savings from a 77W (at let's say 50%+ off, so well over $100,000,000) would just automatically be negated by the new aircrafts' efficiency over time, because it very likely wouldn't.

Do you have any links to show this? I can see $50-$60m, but not $100, unless Boeing are discounting the last couple of years production 60+%. Surely airlines look at lifetime costs of the product, if a new aircraft has no financial benefit over an older one, why are new aircraft developed and are selling like hotcakes against the older models?

Anyone know roughly how many more classic 777 are to be sold/produced with the recent production cuts?
 
User avatar
EPA001
Posts: 3893
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:13 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:30 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 104):
No idea why you're asking me, as I'd rather be on an A350 than a 787 any day.

Well, the question was more asked in a general way than in a personal way.  .

But I asked the question since the B787 was thought as the real quantum leap jump in technology over the A330 where the imho A350 is exactly the same thing over the current B777.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27310
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:06 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 106):
But I asked the question since the B787 was thought as the real quantum leap jump in technology over the A330 where the imho A350 is exactly the same thing over the current B777.

Because it's people being deliberately obtuse.  

When the 787 launched, Airbus Marketing countered the higher fuel burn of the A330 by emphasizing the greater payload capability. But fuel stayed high (at the time), which pushed Airbus into the A330neo.

Boeing Marketing did effectively the same with the 777-300ER vis-a-vis the A350-1000 at the latter's launch and Airbus (in part through customer input) boosted capability, which pushed Boeing into the 777X.
 
trex8
Posts: 5597
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:09 pm

Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 105):
Surely airlines look at lifetime costs of the product, if a new aircraft has no financial benefit over an older one, why are new aircraft developed and are selling like hotcakes against the older models?

Well they could be so old they really need replacing due to mx costs etc, need for heavy check or poor reliability or need for new avionics to meet present day /future ATC requirements, modern cabin upgrade. All these may make a new plane even with capital costs a better long term solution.

Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 105):
Anyone know roughly how many more classic 777 are to be sold/produced with the recent production cuts?

year old
https://leehamnews.com/2015/06/09/boeing-needs-hundreds-of-777-classic-orders-to-fill-gap/
 
User avatar
Ncfc99
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:37 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 108):
Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 105):
Surely airlines look at lifetime costs of the product, if a new aircraft has no financial benefit over an older one, why are new aircraft developed and are selling like hotcakes against the older models?

Well they could be so old they really need replacing due to mx costs etc, need for heavy check or poor reliability or need for new avionics to meet present day /future ATC requirements, modern cabin upgrade. All these may make a new plane even with capital costs a better long term solution.

The poster was claiming that despite the efficiencies of a 3510, it would still be the more expensive long term option when compared to the 77W. So, if you need a new aircraft, just buy another 77W instead of a new more efficient 3510. If the new aircraft cannot beat the older one, there is no point building it, but the 787/350 have large backlogs. If they cost more over their lifetime, the backlogs would be small.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 108):
year old
https://leehamnews.com/2015/06/09/boeing-needs-hundreds-of-777-classic-orders-to-fill-gap/

Thanks. Thats the article I can remember. I'm looking for an update on that.
 
User avatar
Thunderboltdrgn
Posts: 2113
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:39 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:11 am

Not sure how credible this guy is but anyway:

"Virgin Atlantic are expected to announce (either at @FIAFarnborough, or sooner) an order of 12 @Airbus A350-1000s. "

http://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/740482911409975296
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
starbucks
Posts: 1288
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:29 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:22 am

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 110):

Not sure how credible this guy is but anyway:

At least enough to be present at the Airbus Innovation Days last month, but this order is nothing related with that of course!

[Edited 2016-06-08 03:23:02]
 
Luftymatt
Posts: 545
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:27 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:59 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
I would expect it to happen but first, their masters at DL must decide what in DL's best interest The DL pilot contract contains joint venture scope language and the question of whether that scope will be expanded, curtailed or stay the same makes a big difference on what VS orders.

Given the ownership structure, there could also be an order which involves other airlines in which DL has a significant ownership interest

DL don't own VS outright, they have a 49% stake. They won't make an overriding decision as to the VS fleet. Both airlines may work together as to the future of the airline, but this will only be if all parities are in agreement.
chase the sun
 
User avatar
JerseyFlyer
Posts: 1557
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 7:24 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:20 pm

Is this order now dead because of Brexit?

"Richard Branson, founder of the Virgin group, has said that his company has lost about a third of its value because of the plunging stock market caused by the Brexit vote on Friday. Virgin has pulled out of a "very big deal" that would have brought 3,000 jobs to the UK because of uncertainty following the vote, he said. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 06846.html
 
User avatar
JannEejit
Posts: 1692
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:27 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
Is this order now dead because of Brexit?

"Richard Branson, founder of the Virgin group, has said that his company has lost about a third of its value because of the plunging stock market caused by the Brexit vote on Friday. Virgin has pulled out of a "very big deal" that would have brought 3,000 jobs to the UK because of uncertainty following the vote, he said. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 06846.html


Is Branson referring to his airline business or rail network though ? News coming through today of the HSS project being pushed back a year or so because of funding related issues...
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10881
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:32 pm

I don't see how an order for 12 A350s, which would primarily be used to replace existing aircraft, would bring 3,000 jobs to the UK. He is likely talking about something relating to one of his other ventures.
 
User avatar
Erebus
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:40 am

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:45 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
Is this order now dead because of Brexit?


That doesn't make sense. Scrapping Airbus for a deal with Boeing would not help his jobs concerns at all.
 
fcogafa
Posts: 1288
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:37 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:50 pm

He was talking about the Virgin banking company
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:57 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
Is this order now dead because of Brexit?

"Richard Branson, founder of the Virgin group, has said that his company has lost about a third of its value because of the plunging stock market caused by the Brexit vote on Friday. Virgin has pulled out of a "very big deal" that would have brought 3,000 jobs to the UK because of uncertainty following the vote, he said. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 06846.html


An order for just 12 A350s does not fit the description of "a very big deal".
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:22 am

It's a done deal. Apparently the order was saved for Farnborough.

Image
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:56 am

Cabin configurations:

Virgin's A350-1000s will be delivered in two configurations: one for the "business fleet", with 360 seats, and one for the "leisure fleet", with 410 seats.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 0s-427197/
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
EPA001
Posts: 3893
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:13 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:15 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Cabin configurations:

Virgin's A350-1000s will be delivered in two configurations: one for the "business fleet", with 360 seats, and one for the "leisure fleet", with 410 seats.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 0s-427197/


Those are interesting and in capacity higher than I was expecting.

But the closure of the deal is good news for all involved parties, so congratulations are due! :)
 
User avatar
JannEejit
Posts: 1692
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:29 pm

So is the A380 deal formally dead now ? I mean will they ever go official on that ?
 
seat64k
Posts: 611
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:30 pm

If they send that gorgeous machine on any of my regular routes, I might consider flying VS again :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBgeFLKEslA for the Farnborough event.

Interesting bit is that the order does not replace the A380 option.
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:38 pm

This makes much more sense as a flagship. I really had no idea who previously thought it was a smart idea to have a mid-sized frame like the 787-9 as the largest flagship in the new VS fleet once all the 744s and 346s have retired.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 24809
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:20 pm

JannEejit wrote:
So is the A380 deal formally dead now ?

No, it's still on the books.
JannEejit wrote:
I mean will they ever go official on that ?

Ever is a long time, but for now it must suit one or both parties to keep it on the books...
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
TurnaroudUK
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 7:11 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:38 pm

They are getting 12 A350-1000 half of them will be configured for LHR and the other for the leisure fleet. 8 will be directly bought by the airline and the other 4 from Air Lease.
Scheduled to enter service in 2020

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 0s-427197/
http://www.wsj.com/articles/virgin-atla ... 1468234801
https://www.facebook.com/virginatlantic ... 359642679/
 
Beatyair
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:09 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:53 pm

The Just bought 12 at Farnbourgh
 
Beatyair
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:09 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:38 pm

No word if this order of 12 - A350-1000 kills off the order for the 6 - A380's.  I read that the A350's are to replace the 747's.  
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27310
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:17 pm

JannEejit wrote:
So is the A380 deal formally dead now ? I mean will they ever go official on that ?

Virgin have stated they will keep the order on the books, but have the option to cancel it at will (assuredly without penalty).
Personally, I don't think they will ever be delivered, but it costs Airbus and Virgin nothing to keep them on the books indefinitely.
 
rbrunner
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:13 am

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:51 pm

Stitch wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
So is the A380 deal formally dead now ? I mean will they ever go official on that ?

Virgin have stated they will keep the order on the books, but have the option to cancel it at will (assuredly without penalty).
Personally, I don't think they will ever be delivered, but it costs Airbus and Virgin nothing to keep them on the books indefinitely.

I tend to agree with you, Stitch, but in a not too distant future, it will look a bit silly. An order is either confirmed, re-scheduled or...
 
Armodeen
Posts: 1267
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:17 am

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:53 am

Presumably then MAN will go all A330 once the 747s retire, since the MAN base hasn't been allocated any A350s at this early stage of planning?
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8138
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

Re: Virgin Atlantic A350-1000: Order Still Planned?

Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:05 am

My guess is that VS may end up with a larger A35K fleet than originally envisaged, especially now it appears VS got essentially a deal to phase out its A380-800 order in favor of more A35K's. I wouldn't be surprised if VS ends up with 16-17 A35K's, primarily for use on routes between the USA and LHR (given the A35K will likely have a very low Quota Count number due to its quieter Trent XWB engines, which will allow more operations in and out of that airport).

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 747classic, art, Avgeek21, Baidu [Spider], BrianDromey, dstblj52, edina, EIBPI, Eljonno, hummingbird, manicottiK, obelau24, qf2048, Qmans, sunking737, Tdan and 170 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos