factsonly
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Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Fri May 20, 2016 8:55 am

The Scottish Aviation thread, here is some Scottish news !

Inverness: 659.000 pax last 12 months +2.6%

- BA started its daily LHR-INV route earlier this month and both A320 and A319 are operating the 1x daily service.
- KLM started its daily AMS-INV route this week and has already increased frequency to 8x/week starting September 2016 with a 2nd Saturday service. Various operating aircraft are used: E175, E190, Fokker 70.
- easyJet raised LGW-INV to 3x daily on peak travel days; Mon, Fri, Sun.

Aberdeen: 3.341.000 pax last 12 months -10.2%

- Lower oil related traffic is clearly having an impact on ABZ.
- Wizzair is open 2x/week WAW
- Icelandair 4x/week KEF with TATL connections

Edinburgh: 11.347.000 pax last 12 months +11%

- International traffic is booming at EDI +37.1% in March 2016, while domestic is +0.2%.
- easyJet’s new Stuttgart, Vienna and Venice services, plus more pax on established routes.
- Ryanair Santander, double frequency to Alicante and Malaga.
- Qatar EDI-DOH from 5x to daily
- Iberia Express MAD-EDI
- Norwegian EDI-AGP, TFS
- Etihad AUH-EDI
- Jet2.com EDI-TFS, LPA, ACE.

Glasgow: 8.899.000 pax last 12 months +13%

- International pax up 11.6% in March 2016
- Domestic pax up 5.6% in March 2016
- New destinations PRG, BUD, MXP, BUH.
- Ryanair announced CRL, SOG
- Icelandair will go daily to KEF with TATL connections
- AC Rouge starts this summer
- KE operates a series of ICN-GLA charter flights.

Dundee: 23.000 pax in last 12 months +10%

- FlyBe commences DND-AMS on Monday 23 May 2016 daily with Dash8-400 on a Government grant route. Bookings are low so wish them success.

Any more news anyone.

[Edited 2016-05-20 02:00:29]
 
hibtastic
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Fri May 20, 2016 9:12 am

DL will also start a new EDI-JFK service in May which will initially operate with a 752 then change to a 763 between June and September before reverting back to a 752 again for the rest of the year. This new TATL service joins the existing UA services to EWR (daily year round, double daily in the summer all on 752) and ORD (summer only 752), AA's service to JFK (summer only 752) and AC Rouge's summer only service to YYZ on a 763.

EDI has also recently seen new services to HEL with AY on a A319 plus ORY with HV and VY. VY also introduced new services to ALC and FCO. DY also introduced a new flight to BCN.

WW will start a new KEF service from EDI connecting into their long-haul flights to LAX and SFO.

FR will start a new WMI service.

I am sure there is more...
 
gkirk
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Fri May 20, 2016 9:18 am

Thomas Cook adding a 3rd based A321 during the winter at GLA.
The recently started AF CDG-GLA will now run year round, EQV beteen A318, 319 and 320.

[Edited 2016-05-20 02:19:56]
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sandyb123
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sat May 21, 2016 10:50 am

Some impressive stuff happening at EDI, the current owners (GIP) are really pushing it.

Rumour mill is still making noise about EK starting EDI. With both QR, EY and TK now serving EDI daily and a premium-heavy demographic I think it is a no brainer. If they up-gauge GLA to a daily A380 and bring a 777 to EDI that would seem to work!

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scotron11
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sat May 21, 2016 11:28 am

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 3):
If they up-gauge GLA to a daily A380 and bring a 777 to EDI that would seem to work!

Would be fantastic...they've been running 2x 777s on the GLA-DXB route for quite a while now....they also have their own dedicated EK lounge there. Can GLA handle the 380??
 
sandyb123
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sat May 21, 2016 12:03 pm

Quoting scotron11 (Reply 4):
Can GLA handle the 380??

Technically yes it can (there was a special A380 service on the lunchtime rotation last year).

Although the parking gate (which I believe is the same one as the 777 uses) only has one jet bridge which is not conducive to speedy disembarkation / embarkation.

It would be interesting to know how many people in the EDI catchment use the EK GLA service. I haven't been on this flight for a while and whilst the chauffeur service covers Edinburgh the new direct flights to the UAE must be eating into this customer base.

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n251ay
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sat May 21, 2016 2:17 pm

Edelweiss Air (in cooperation with Swiss Intl. Airlines) launches 1 weekly winter ZRH-EDI-ZRH service starting 18DEC16.
Flight times: http://www.flyedelweiss.com/EN/infor...ound=18122016&inbound=25122016
Currently this service operates 3/7 summer seasonal.
 
by738
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sat May 21, 2016 4:54 pm

Arent QR running at reasonably low loads with 'giveaway' fares? Would be surprised if EK are entertaining trying to compete with those given they can continue to recruit to their GLA flights as they need. I think theyve barely dropped 3% growth since the ME onslaught at EDI.
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captaink
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sat May 21, 2016 7:26 pm

Why INV? Isn´t service to Aberdeen sufficient for the entire area?
There is something special about planes....
 
sk736
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sat May 21, 2016 7:37 pm

Quoting captaink (Reply 8):

You clearly know nothing about the geography of the North of Scotland!
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sat May 21, 2016 7:58 pm

Quoting captaink (Reply 8):
Why INV? Isn´t service to Aberdeen sufficient for the entire area?

Inverness to Aberdeen is a 2 hour 30 minute drive, down a rather crap road, with very little space for overtaking. It's not a journey anyone particularly enjoys taking. Therefore if there is a connection available from Inverness, that is always going to be more preferable than driving to Aberdeen.
 
captaink
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sat May 21, 2016 8:02 pm

Quoting sk736 (Reply 9):
You clearly know nothing about the geography of the North of Scotland!
Quoting nighthawk (Reply 10):
Inverness to Aberdeen is a 2 hour 30 minute drive, down a rather crap road, with very little space for overtaking. It's not a journey anyone particularly enjoys taking. Therefore if there is a connection available from Inverness, that is always going to be more preferable than driving to Aberdeen.

Fair enough. For some reason I only thought of ScotRail. I concur then, service to INV is a good idea.  
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gkirk
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sun May 22, 2016 6:31 am

I think it's pretty safe to say EK won't be starting EDI, they can quite easily squeeze QR and EY from GLA and to a lesser extent, NCL.

As it stands, QR, TK and EY still have plenty of room at EDI as it is.
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nighthawk
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sun May 22, 2016 10:49 am

Quoting gkirk (Reply 12):
I think it's pretty safe to say EK won't be starting EDI, they can quite easily squeeze QR and EY from GLA and to a lesser extent, NCL.

I don't think they can. It's three different markets. Look at the impact Qatar and Etihad had on the Glasgow figures - barely a blip - just a drop of around 5% I believe. The passengers on Etihad and Qatar aren't being taken from Emirates, they're being taken from the other hubs - Lufthansa, Air France, KLM etc. It's also stimulating new demand.

Continental experienced the same when they launched flights from Edinburgh - it had minimum impact on their Glasgow flights. People in Scotland prefer to use their local airport, and would rather connect than travel across to the other airport.

The longer Emirates stay out of the market, the more Qatar and Etihad become established, and sew up the market. It'll make it harder to enter in future, if they ever decide to do so.
 
ghYHZ
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sun May 22, 2016 11:17 am

WestJet is back in GLA for another season with a 737-700 from Halifax and this one crossed the pond in under 5 hrs:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/W...0/history/20160517/0145Z/CYHZ/EGPF

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factsonly
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sun May 22, 2016 12:00 pm

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 13):
The passengers on Etihad and Qatar aren't being taken from Emirates, they're being taken from the other hubs - Lufthansa, Air France, KLM etc.

We see this statement often, but the 2015 data do not entirely agree with you:

- EDI-DOHA 115.529 pax +114%
- EDI-AUH 72.773 pax (NEW)

- GLA-DXB 429.602 +1%

- EDI-AMS 621.195 pax +3%
- EDI-DUB 540.651 pax +13%
- EDI-CDG 300.611 pax -1% (Paris attacks?)
- EDI-FRA 192.077 pax -3%
- EDI-CPH 191.896 pax +58%
- EDI-MAD 162.499 pax +52%
- EDI-IST 97.498 pax +5%

So EK has seen slow growth from GLA, and only LH and AF have seen less traffic possibly due to ME3 competition.

source: CAA 2015
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sun May 22, 2016 3:08 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 15):
We see this statement often, but the 2015 data do not entirely agree with you:

I'm not following you. You say I'm wrong, then go on to post stats showing that what I said is true - both FRA and CDG experienced a drop in traffic, while the GLA EMirates flight was unaffected ...?

What are the numbers for LHR. Thinking about it, this is probably going to be where most of the Qatar customers would come from. BA Executive Club members using fellow one world airline Qatar.

[Edited 2016-05-22 08:10:12]
 
sandyb123
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sun May 22, 2016 8:40 pm

Don't these stats somewhat coroberate a business case for EK to open EDI as soon as possible? If this is the case then they will not degradate their GLA ops and offer strong competition to EY QR TK?

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scotron11
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Mon May 23, 2016 2:01 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 15):
- EDI-DOHA 115.529 pax +114%

That's some healthy traffic they're attracting on this route. My 1st trip to Manila was 2008 and was with KLM via AMS when they had the non-stop 777.

Subsequently other trips have been with EK ex GLA to both MNL and BKK....and EDI is a lot closer for me than GLA. Currently booked QR on July 3.

Wonder if they will up EDI-DOH route to a 359??
 
factsonly
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Mon May 23, 2016 5:59 am

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 16):
I'm not following you. You say I'm wrong, then go on to post stats showing that what I said is true - both FRA and CDG experienced a drop in traffic, while the GLA EMirates flight was unaffected ...?

The EDI route that has lost most traffic in 2015 is actually EDI-LHR, not mentioned by you:

- EDI-LHR 1.383.915 -6%

My point is, that for an airline there is very little difference between -1% and +1%, such a route is considered flat.

So EK has suffered as much at GLA with no growth, as AF and LH have suffered at EDI.
 
sandyb123
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Mon May 23, 2016 3:22 pm

In other news what is the justification for the subsidised air route from DNS to AMS. If it is too thin to be commercial then (IMO) it shouldn't exist. Is there a special business case for this route.

Also as the Dornier 328 is the current aircraft for DND-LCY I'd have thought it would be more logical than the much larger Q400?

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nighthawk
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Tue May 24, 2016 8:30 am

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 20):
In other news what is the justification for the subsidised air route from DNS to AMS. If it is too thin to be commercial then (IMO) it shouldn't exist. Is there a special business case for this route.

I believe the funding only lasts a couple of years, and is intended to help encourage new routes by reducing the financial risk of launching them. Eventually it will need to stand on its own.
 
seansasLCY
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Tue May 24, 2016 9:00 am

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 20):
Also as the Dornier 328 is the current aircraft for DND-LCY I'd have thought it would be more logical than the much larger Q400?

Flybe don't operate DND-LCY. Their service goes to STN. LCY had previously had cityjet/Scot Airways service to DND.
 
factsonly
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Tue May 24, 2016 10:38 am

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 20):
Also as the Dornier 328 is the current aircraft for DND-LCY

DEPARTURES DUNDEE Riverside:

- BE6621 07:00 Stansted Departed
- BE1284 12:25 Amsterdam On Time
- BE6625 16:50 Stansted Scheduled

ARRIVALS DUNDEE Riverside:

- BE6622 10:45 Stansted LANDED D328
- BE1283 11:55 Amsterdam On Time DH8-400
- BE6626 20:35 Stansted Scheduled D328

The larger aircraft is to permit tourism growth, as the Dash8-400 has lower CASM than the D328, permitting more volume at lower fares. Time will tell if it works out.
 
sandyb123
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Tue May 24, 2016 7:07 pm

Quoting seansasLCY (Reply 22):
Flybe don't operate DND-LCY. Their service goes to STN. LCY had previously had cityjet/Scot Airways service to DND.

My bad I thought it was LCY on Flybe. It is indeed the 328 operated for Flybe by Loganair (watching BE6626 fly over EDI on its decent to DND right now!).

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by738
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Tue May 24, 2016 10:05 pm

Looks like the GLA-SZG mainline winter service is back after presumably a successful season. Shame the similar attempt to IBZ didnt work out.
 
LH121GLA
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Tue May 24, 2016 10:20 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 25):
Shame the similar attempt to IBZ didnt work out.

Yes, I always thought the EDI-IBZ BA flight was a strange operation.
 
doliver11
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Wed May 25, 2016 6:44 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 15):
Quoting factsonly (Reply 15):

We see this statement often, but the 2015 data do not entirely agree with you:

- EDI-DOHA 115.529 pax 114%

If QR's 787 hold 254 ppl, that x365 is only max 92,710 pax. Does anyone know how this number is calculated?
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Wed May 25, 2016 10:34 am

Quoting doliver11 (Reply 27):
If QR's 787 hold 254 ppl, that x365 is only max 92,710 pax. Does anyone know how this number is calculated?

It includes passengers travelling to or from Doha, so multiply your seat count by 2.
 
sandyb123
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Wed May 25, 2016 12:24 pm

Interesting press release courtesy of EDI this morning sighting a new long-haul route(s) from EDI to the US on DY.

Quote:
Norwegian CEO Bjorn Kjos said: “Since we started flying from Edinburgh in 2009, we have grown to 6 routes and have now carried over 1 million passengers - but this is only the beginning of our plans for expansion. Edinburgh will play an important role in our future UK growth and our long-term ambition is to deliver new, direct long-haul flights from Edinburgh.

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doliver11
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RE: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Wed May 25, 2016 7:14 pm

[quote=nighthawk,reply=28]It includes passengers travelling to or from Doha, so multiply your seat count by 2.


That makes a bit more sense! Cheers
 
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Dublinspotter
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Re: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:39 pm

Hi

Really enjoyed reading the thread and learning about Scottish Aviation considering I have just moved to here, hope it can pick up soon! :)
However I noticed on various social media platforms of a UA 767 making an emergency landing at EDI, then the next day the same plane returned to EDI with another (?) problem - Any update as to what exactly happened onboard?

Also while i'm on the thread I am curious as to the background of the Loganair flights to the islands. Are these routes subsidised by the Scottish government or fully funded by Loganair/Flybe? I find this to be a niche market that Loganair has tapped into and established very well with business and tourist populations, esp. with the S340/2000 operation.

Cheers!
Dublinspotter
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:32 pm

Dublinspotter wrote:
Hi

Really enjoyed reading the thread and learning about Scottish Aviation considering I have just moved to here, hope it can pick up soon! :)
However I noticed on various social media platforms of a UA 767 making an emergency landing at EDI, then the next day the same plane returned to EDI with another (?) problem - Any update as to what exactly happened onboard?

Also while i'm on the thread I am curious as to the background of the Loganair flights to the islands. Are these routes subsidised by the Scottish government or fully funded by Loganair/Flybe? I find this to be a niche market that Loganair has tapped into and established very well with business and tourist populations, esp. with the S340/2000 operation.

Cheers!


The intial divert into EDI was because of a fuel leak whilst entering the transatlantic sector of the flight off the west coast of Scotland. Quite why they opted for EDI and not nearer GLA or PIK is presumably down to reasons of fuel jettison/burn or a bigger engineering option at EDI, possibly both, I don't know, but United do have a presence at GLA and EDI, both offering daily transatlantic services plus GLA having more available wide body tarmac space. As for the same aircraft again returning to EDI, this was an empty 'RTB' positioning flight, also west of the Scottish mainland, and again returned to EDI, bypassing closer alternative fields. What the actual technical problem was the 2nd time, I haven't heard.

As for Loganair, well they've been operating a variety of mixed revenue and Public Service Obligation (PSO) services to the Scottish Highlands and Islands for decades, they in fact celebrated 50 years of ops a couple of years ago. Beginning as a small in-house air taxi service for the Logan Construction Company, they evolved into a fully fledged airline in the late 60's and 70's. Currently operating a fairly small fleet in terms of types (mainly Saab 340/2000) they still have a couple of BN Islanders in the Orkney Islands, these used to do Air Ambulance work across the network before that contract was lost to Gama Aviation. As a long time operator of the DHC Twin Otter they recently took on two brand new Viking Twin Otters, although these are in fact owned by the Scottish Government and operated by Loganair on a PSO contract, providing lifeline services to Barra, Campbeltown and Islay. Most other Loganair routes are run on a commercial basis, in conjunction with franchise partner Flybe since 2008, and previously in partnership with BA. Prior to that Loganair operated alone or within other regional airline groups including British Midland administered 'Airlines of Britain' group, albeit in their own distinctive red/white/black livery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loganair
 
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nighthawk
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Re: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:46 pm

JannEejit wrote:

Quite why they opted for EDI and not nearer GLA or PIK is presumably down to reasons of fuel jettison/burn or a bigger engineering option at EDI, possibly both, I don't know, but United do have a presence at GLA and EDI, both offering daily transatlantic services plus GLA having more available wide body tarmac space.


They probably chose to divert into EDI due to the presence of the direct EDI-ORD flight, which was due to depart 2 hours after they landed. There is also a second daily flight to EWR from EDI, again scheduled for shortly after they diverted. this would allow them to transfer over a number of their passengers onto either that days flight, or the flight the following day.

GLA on the other hand, only had a single flight to EWR that day, which had already departed.


As for Loganair, well they've been operating a variety of mixed revenue and Public Service Obligation (PSO) services to the Scottish Highlands and Islands for decades, they in fact celebrated 50 years of ops a couple of years ago. Beginning as a small in-house air taxi service for the Logan Construction Company, they evolved into a fully fledged airline in the late 60's and 70's. Currently operating a fairly small fleet in terms of types (mainly Saab 340/2000) they still have a couple of BN Islanders in the Orkney Islands, these used to do Air Ambulance work across the network before that contract was lost to Gama Aviation. As a long time operator of the DHC Twin Otter they recently took on two brand new Viking Twin Otters, although these are in fact owned by the Scottish Government and operated by Loganair on a PSO contract, providing lifeline services to Barra, Campbeltown and Islay. Most other Loganair routes are run on a commercial basis, in conjunction with franchise partner Flybe since 2008, and previously in partnership with BA. Prior to that Loganair operated alone or within other regional airline groups including British Midland administered 'Airlines of Britain' group, albeit in their own distinctive red/white/black livery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loganair


A lot of Loganairs flights are subsidised. Barra, Campbeltown and Islay are PSO routes and subsidised by the government. Various other island flights are subsidised by the local council. However, on some routes they also fly additional frequencies, particularly in the summer, which are not part of the PSO agreements/subsidies.
 
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Dublinspotter
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Re: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:17 pm

Hi

Appreciate the feedback guys, been a bit distant from Scottish Aviation News recently so I felt id just ask the experts! Totally greatful.
The fact the UA flight returned twice intrigued me that's all, bet the crew were glad to get back eventually on US soil! :D

Loganair has a fleet of aircraft I must try out, it is good to see the Scottish Government taking an interest in providing air services to its outer islands.

---

Noticed that EDI had their busiest June on record with Intl traffic increasing by 10.6% compared to June '15. Incredibly impressive! Considering the airport is 100 years old this year.

“Our continual growth underlines the need for Edinburgh Airport to adapt so we can accommodate the ever increasing number of people wanting to fly in and out of Scotland’s Capital city."
http://www.edinburghairport.com/about-u ... gh-airport

Glasgow has also gained a similar title, with their own busiest June in their 50-year history. 950,000 passengers in a month, while also being given the award Scottish Airport of the Year 2016.
http://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasg ... e-11603205

Exciting times ahead for Scotland! Here's to an even better July!

Cheers!
Dublinspotter
 
opticalilyushin
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Re: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:47 pm

I just spent the last 2 days flying around the Orkney and Shetland Isles, what a great area of the world to visit! Flying up front on the Westray-Papa Westray 2 minute flight, and the same on the Directflight service from Tingwall to Fair Isle. I hope to try the Coll/Oban/Tiree services next time :)
 
djb77
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Re: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:38 am

Wrt to ABZ, I see Ryanair is to return to Dyce as of February 2017 to operate twice weekly flights to Alicante (Thursday, Sunday) and Malaga (Wednesday, Saturday.) Early morning from ALC (+/- 08:00) and AGP (+/- 06:30), mid-morning back to Spain again:

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... n-airport/
 
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Dublinspotter
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Re: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:51 pm

djb77 wrote:
Wrt to ABZ, I see Ryanair is to return to Dyce as of February 2017 to operate twice weekly flights to Alicante (Thursday, Sunday) and Malaga (Wednesday, Saturday.) Early morning from ALC (+/- 08:00) and AGP (+/- 06:30), mid-morning back to Spain again:

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... n-airport/


Sounds like Ryanair are testing the market with one of their "safe" routes, if these perform well I can see FR increasing the number of routes from ABZ over the course of 2017-18, similar to that of BFS and CWL. All the best to FR giving the airport another go. And good to see Ryanair reevaluating Scottish markets and committing to them.

opticalilyushin wrote:
I just spent the last 2 days flying around the Orkney and Shetland Isles, what a great area of the world to visit! Flying up front on the Westray-Papa Westray 2 minute flight, and the same on the Directflight service from Tingwall to Fair Isle. I hope to try the Coll/Oban/Tiree services next time


Currently planning my trip up the islands as we speak, with Westray and Sumburgh being at the top of the list! Flights aren't the cheapest on the dates I would like so will have to scout other dates. Safe travels to yourself!

Cheers.
Dublinspotter
 
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nighthawk
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Re: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:51 pm

Currently planning my trip up the islands as we speak, with Westray and Sumburgh being at the top of the list! Flights aren't the cheapest on the dates I would like so will have to scout other dates. Safe travels to yourself!


I may get kicked off the site for even suggesting it... but ferry prices can be pretty cheap to the Scottish islands. There's an overnight sailing from Aberdeen, or a quicker journey from the North tip of Scotland. However, by the time you pay to get to the ferry, it might have been cheaper to fly there.

Once you are up in Kirkwall, the island flights are all a fixed price.

I did Westray to Papa Westray last month - I would highly recommend it. It's some of the most fun I've had flying!
 
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Dublinspotter
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Re: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:45 pm

Noted in another thread that there's rather Interesting rumours of A380 ops at GLA from EK in the near future, considering the sheer masses of people (400k) and cargo using the route in a year it'd be a healthy addition to the GLA offering! It is fantastic to see folks along the central belt being able to have a very wide choice available between EDI and GLA.

I do wonder if EDI A380 capable? Could they even handle a daily 77W from EY/QR?

Cheers!
Dublinspotter
 
by738
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Re: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:06 pm

EDI cannot handle 777s on a regular basis, they struggle with gate/airbridge provision with A330s as it is and have questionable taxiway provision.
 
hibtastic
Posts: 400
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:54 am

Re: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:10 pm

I understand that EDI are carrying out strengthening works to taxiways as well as creating three new widebody stands for 777/A350 sized aircraft. One will also be big enough for an A380 should it ever be required.
 
NichCage
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Re: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:05 pm

Could someone answer this question for me? Glasgow has more international flights then flights to Europe, while Edinburgh has more flights to Europe than international flights. For example, Edinburgh has been gaining so many flights to Europe, while Glasgow has only gained a little. Why is this? I'm sure the Glasgow market could support routes like GLA-BRU/CGN/FRA etc. Glasgow has gained little European flights, while Edinburgh has gained so much. Why is this?
 
by738
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:50 pm

Im guessing with good 'stack em high sell em off deals flexibility offered by GIP to Edinburgh they can offer great deals to incoming carriers. EDI has very seasonal inbound peaks for Christmas/New Year and Festival. Youll see that in the way NYC market to EDI plummets during winter. Glasgow has a larger leisure outbound market and slightly less seasonal peaks. Often carriers will see EDI/GLA as one for Scotland and could choose whoever offers best deal (theyre only 50 miles apart). Competition will potentially peak at EDI as we've seen with the Middle East carriers - their loads are variable and havent shown the anticipated growth. They have already had cut backs. Emirates at GLA have only seen a tiny reduction despite the massive local capacity to ME at EDI often with very cheap fares. I suspect in terms of inbound leisure theres only so many people who will come and I honestly cant see the recent growth figures continuing. Interesting times and a good position to be in. I do wonder when GIP will call in their investment and sell off EDI? perhaps when things plateau.
 
hibtastic
Posts: 400
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:54 am

Re: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:28 pm

I think GLA has made some good gains into Europe this last year and will likely improve further as the likes of Ryanair expand.

A significant chunk of EDI's growth this year has come from the expansion by Jet2 which is mainly outbound leisure. In addition recent adds such as QR and EY are still very much in their infancy and will take time to establish. They will never be able to match the pax numbers that EK manage but they can co-exist nicely. They have managed to affect EK at GLA though given that the last few months have all been negative in terms of pax growth rather than the impressive positive growth that came before.

EDI also has an impressive array of TATL options now with all three of big US3 to EWR, JFK and ORD as well as AC Rouge to YYZ. The majority of these routes are pretty recent additions and show that what was once a clear divide between types of services at EDI and GLA is no longer evident as each airport diversifies.

DY are expected to launch several new TATL routes from EDI to the likes of BOS once their 738 Maxs arrive. They did also mention other destinations such as San Francisco etc which will require a 787. So I do not expect the growth to plateau and neither do the owners at EDI given the investment in new widebody stands and strengthened taxiways I mentioned in a previous post.
 
djb77
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:47 am

I see that airBaltic is returning to ABZ with flights from Riga on 733 as of May (it appears to be four times per week), and Ryanair has now announced they are offering flights to Faro as of May 2017 on Tuesdays and Saturdays (dep ABZ at 11:55, dep Faro at 08:00).
 
User avatar
nighthawk
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 2:33 am

Re: Scotland Aviation - News 2016

Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:19 am

by738 wrote:
Im guessing with good 'stack em high sell em off deals flexibility offered by GIP to Edinburgh they can offer great deals to incoming carriers. EDI has very seasonal inbound peaks for Christmas/New Year and Festival. Youll see that in the way NYC market to EDI plummets during winter. Glasgow has a larger leisure outbound market and slightly less seasonal peaks.


The Long-Haul/European split between EDI and GLA has been going on a lot longer than GIP have been involved. If anything GIP's involvement is reducing the difference by attracting more long haul flights into Edinburgh.

Much of the difference between the two is historical. GLA was the traditional gateway to Scotland, and was also the base of the charter airlines. This worked well in the past, due to GLAs larger catchment, which was ideal for filling outbound holiday charters. EDI was considered a secondary airport. However, with EDI being a more popular city break destination, and having slightly stronger demand for business travel (although Glasgow is growing in both these areas), the low cost airlines were quick to move in. There was an untapped market in both outbound and inbound travel.

GLA was initially held back by the presence of Ryanair down the road in PIK, but now they have moved into GLA the number of European destinations is increasing. Continental took a gamble on EDI, and proved that long haul from Edinburgh was viable. We are now slowly seeing more long haul airlines move in, mainly thanks to GIP's investment and incentives at the airport.

I haven't looked at the stats recently, but I would challenge your comment that EDI is more seasonal than GLA. GLA is almost a ghost town in the winter, due to the large presence of holiday charters in the summer.

by738 wrote:
I suspect in terms of inbound leisure theres only so many people who will come and I honestly cant see the recent growth figures continuing.

As new markets open up, more people will come. The owners are desperate to get a new direct flight to China, this will open EDI up to a whole new market, and encourage more people to visit. I can also see flights to Japan resuming at some point in the future, although probably as a weekly charter again. If Norwegian do indeed base a few MAX's in EDI, then this again will open up new possibilities. Direct flights tend to stimulate the market and encourage growth. I don't think growth has quite plateaued yet, but I think it will drop off in 2-3 years time, to a more modest level of growth.

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