FlyBe 8th UK-AMS Route, 27x UK-AMS Routes Total

factsonly · Fri May 20, 2016 4:06 pm

On Monday May 23rd, 2016, FlyBe inaugurates its latest route addition Dundee-AMS with Dash 8-400 daily. This is a Government sponsored route, as FlyBe was awarded supporting funds from the Regional Connectivity Fund by the UK Treasury in 2015.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-35658614

This brings the total FlyBe routes UK-AMS to eight:

- DND
- MAN
- DSA
- EMA
- BHX
- EXT
- SOU
- LCY

It also establishes a new record of 27 routes from the UK to AMS (with weekly frequencies):

1. INV - KL 8x week
2. ABZ - KL 35x week
3. DND - BE 7x week
4. EDI - KL 42x, EZY 11x = 53x week
5. GLA - KL 35x, EZY 4x = 39x week
6. BFS - EZY 9x week
7. BHD - KL 7x week
8. NCL - KL 35x week
9. MME - KL 19x week
10. LBA - KL 26x, LS 6x = 32x week
11. HUY - KL 20x week
12. DSA - BE 7x week
13. MAN - KL 41x, BE 32x, EZY 22x = 95x week
14. LPL - EZY 15x week
15. EMA - BE 7x week
16. BHX - KL 40x, BE 37x = 77x week
17. NWI - KL 27x week
18. SEN - EZY 13x week
19. STN - EZY 22x week
20. LTN - EZY 38x, VY 14x = 52x week
21. LCY - BA 33x, WX 52x, BE 2x = 87x week
22. LGW - EZY 48x, BA 21x = 69x week
23. LHR - BA 54x, KL 70x = 124x week
24. SOU - BE 26x, KL 12x = 38x week
25. BRS - KL 28x, EZY 11x = 39x week
26. CWL - KL 20x week
27. EXT - BE 7x week

TOTAL = 949 one-way frequencies per week:

- KL 465x
- EZY 193x
- BE 125x
- BA 108x
- WX 52x
- LS 6x

realsim · Fri May 20, 2016 4:39 pm

Really impressive. On a map:

gkirk · Fri May 20, 2016 5:25 pm

KL operates GLA-AMS 28 x weekly.

OO-VEG · Fri May 20, 2016 5:27 pm

Impressive, Makes me wonder how does that compare to LHR/LGW or STN?

LHRFlyer · Fri May 20, 2016 6:46 pm

It will be interesting to see how this compares with EI to DUB and VY to BCN in a few years' time, as well as what effect codesharing with BA has on route performance.

factsonly · Sat May 21, 2016 7:16 am

Though it is unlikely that further UK-AMS routes will be opened, these are former UK-AMS routes now defunct:

- Coventry-AMS - Thomsonfly
- Bournemouth-AMS - FlyBe, Thomsonfly
- Prestwick-AMS - Transavia
- Manston-AMS - KLMCityhopper
- Ipswich-AMS - Suckling Airways

Are we forgetting any?

Joost · Sat May 21, 2016 7:29 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 5):
Are we forgetting any?

In 2013, Darwin airline operated flights on CBG-AMS, unsure of the equipment. These only lasted for less than a year. In 2014, CityJet took over the route, operates by VLM F50s but also this route didn't last long.

If my memory serves me right, VLM (before being acquired by WX/AF) used to fly F50s on weekends to Guernsey and Jersey, but I'm not sure if they flew from AMS or RTM.

SCQ83 · Sat May 21, 2016 7:54 am

Maybe IAG should do a takeover bid for KLM and get rid of Air France. Not to mention how useful KLM would be for Africa, Asia or Eastern Europe.

So BA would end with three new runways: one to the West (DUB), one to the East (AMS) and one to the South (MAD).

KaiTak747 · Sat May 21, 2016 10:16 am

Very impressive.

Where is this traffic coming from though? If we look at the 6 London airports, between them there are 52 daily flights to AMS!

I understand that tourism, business traffic, connections and VFR are all substantial, but it's still a mind boggling amount of traffic.

factsonly · Sat May 21, 2016 10:22 am

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 8):
I understand that tourism, business traffic, connections and VFR are all substantial, but it's still a mind boggling amount of traffic.

Please note that UK-Ireland passenger traffic is even larger than UK-NL traffic:

Passenger data 2015:

- UK-Ireland = 11.576.833 +11%
- UK-Netherlands = 9.456.229 +8%

[email protected] · Sat May 21, 2016 10:31 am

In the present week period, the w/c 16th May 2016, all UK-Netherlands services have 126,105 seats, up 8.5% over the year-ago week.

The market share of each airline operating UK-Netherlands in this week period is as follows:

BA: 13.67%
CityJet: 4.97%
flybe: 8.52%
Jet2: 0.91%
KLM: 40.85%
Ryanair: 2.85%
Vueling: 2.01%
easyJet: 26.23%

Source: OAG via CAPA.

sirdanilot · Sat May 21, 2016 11:12 am

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 8):

I honestly don't think it's that surprising.
London is the large city (10 mil +) which lies the closest to the Netherlands geographically speaking, leading to a plethora of business and tourism trips. And because of that little puddle we call the 'North Sea', driving to London or taking the train is not the most handy option, which means virtually EVERYONE flies to London, except those who like trains (there isn't even a direct train, though the Eurostar will do an Amsterdam - London route in the near future) or the most budget of budget students who would take Megabus or even hitch hike (yes I hitch hiked to London once, haha, a long time ago now).

In addition, because BA is one world, a plethora of connections for intercontinental flights will run through LHR or sometimes LGW. I think this is responsible for a large part of the traffic to those airports.

When looking at it from the other side, Amsterdam is a number one tourist destination for British tourists who like to get drunk, stoned and look at the 'eyecandy' in the red light district, in addition to of course a lot of connecting traffic in AMS and business traffic.

vfw614 · Sat May 21, 2016 12:07 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 6):
f my memory serves me right, VLM (before being acquired by WX/AF) used to fly F50s on weekends to Guernsey and Jersey, but I'm not sure if they flew from AMS or RTM.

Aurigny served AMS for quite a while when they operated Saab 340s. Technically, the C.I. are of course not part of the UK..

BasilFawlty · Sat May 21, 2016 12:53 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 5):
Are we forgetting any?

Manston was also served by EUjet.

Blackpool was served by Jet2 for some years.
Jersey was served by Blue Islands not that long ago.

LondonCity · Sat May 21, 2016 2:39 pm

Quoting sirdanilot (Reply 11):
(there isn't even a direct train, though the Eurostar will do an Amsterdam - London route in the near future)

Originally the Eurostar direct trains were scheduled for this December. But the launch date has been postponed until late 2017.

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...confirms-plans-for-new-routes.html

DIJKKIJK · Sat May 21, 2016 4:28 pm

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing.

Does this make the UK and Netherlands the two countries connected best by air in the world?

SCQ83 · Sat May 21, 2016 6:17 pm

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 15):
Does this make the UK and Netherlands the two countries connected best by air in the world?

UK and Spain is the busiest "country-pair" in the world in terms of passengers.

London alone has flights to 29 Spanish airports (the 28 busiest + CDT), and city pairs like AGP-LON have dozens of daily flights.

factsonly · Sat May 21, 2016 6:57 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 7):
So BA would end with three new runways: one to the West (DUB), one to the East (AMS) and one to the South (MAD).

Make that 12 NEW Runways:

- Two to the West (DUB = 2 rwy)
- Six to the East (AMS = 6 rwy)
- Four to the South (MAD = 4 rwy)

factsonly · Mon May 23, 2016 7:52 am

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
On Monday May 23rd, 2016, FlyBe inaugurates its latest route addition Dundee-AMS with Dash 8-400 daily. This is a Government sponsored route, as FlyBe was awarded supporting funds from the Regional Connectivity Fund by the UK Treasury in 2015.

Not a good day for the inaugural of FlyBe's new route DND-AMS, which will be operated by Dash8-400 G-JECM on a BHX-AMS-DND-AMS-BHX routing.

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Photo © Europix - AirTeamImages

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Photo © Europix - AirTeamImages

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Photo © Wallace [Airplane-Pictures]

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Photo © Wallace [Airplane-Pictures]

Due to weather at AMS only one arrival runway is available in the rush hour this morning, when two rwy's are barely sufficient. Delays are increasing rapidly.

As Dundee only sees private aircraft and a 2x daily FlyBe D328 on DND-STN-DND, the inaugural party for this first scheduled international route is likely to be seriously delayed.

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Photo © Mark McEwan

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Photo © John L Chalmers

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http://www.hial.co.uk/dundee-airport/

FlyBe G-JECM:

http://www.flightradar24.com/reg/g-jecm

sirdanilot · Mon May 23, 2016 8:13 am

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 14):

Oh ok.

Still I don't think the Eurostar is going to even slightly compete with air traffic, price-wise and speed-wise. Yes the advantage is that you travel from city center to city center, but the disadvantage is that the thing stops for about 1 hour for passport checks in France (one europe, yay...) and that the thing is probably more expensive than most low cost carriers. And of course flying is much faster than any train due to that little puddle called the North Sea being in the way.

It always surprises me how incredibly close something like Norwich is to Holland by air. It seems like an entirely different world to me and I have never been there, but by air travel it's incredibly close. London, too.

Summa767 · Mon May 23, 2016 8:22 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 5):
Though it is unlikely that further UK-AMS routes will be opened

Chances of OXF-AMS being opened, by Flybe or anybody else?
I would love to see it. It is true that LHR is only an hour away, but the city and the area does attract a lot of international travel -universities, science companies, international schools that could benefit from a link to a world hub such as AMS is.

factsonly · Mon May 23, 2016 10:58 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 18):
Not a good day for the inaugural of FlyBe's new route DND-AMS,

FlyBe's inaugural flight is now under way with a 1 hour ETA delay.

Hopefully there is plenty of champagne to keep the waiting dignitaries and press occupied.

http://www.flightradar24.com/BEE1YF/9cc7935

SelseyBill · Mon May 23, 2016 11:04 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 7):
Maybe IAG should do a takeover bid for KLM and get rid of Air France

Many of us believe KLM was a better partner for BA than IB; and the proposed BA/KLM 'marriage' would have been the better bet for both than their current partners.

Unfortunately; 'londoncentric' BA wanted to transfer all UK traffic via LHR; and didn't appreciate that KLM via AMS would have opened up the entire 'UK to the World' market for them, and would have probably meant that BA/KLM would have been in a much better place to take on the subsequent ME3 UK invasion.

Never did like Eddington........

AirbusA6 · Mon May 23, 2016 11:36 am

It's interesting, that this is a regional connectivity route, part funded by the UK government, that connects a UK region to Amsterdam, for connections to the outside world.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 20):
Chances of OXF-AMS being opened, by Flybe or anybody else?
I would love to see it. It is true that LHR is only an hour away, but the city and the area does attract a lot of international travel -universities, science companies, international schools that could benefit from a link to a world hub such as AMS is.

But Oxford has a world class Hub airport on its doorstep, called LHR, who would take a plane to AMS to change?

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 22):

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 7):
Maybe IAG should do a takeover bid for KLM and get rid of Air France

Many of us believe KLM was a better partner for BA than IB; and the proposed BA/KLM 'marriage' would have been the better bet for both than their current partners.

Unfortunately; 'londoncentric' BA wanted to transfer all UK traffic via LHR; and didn't appreciate that KLM via AMS would have opened up the entire 'UK to the World' market for them, and would have probably meant that BA/KLM would have been in a much better place to take on the subsequent ME3 UK invasion.

Never did like Eddington........

Yes, it was a crackpot idea to use AMS as a feeder airport for the cramped and slot restricted LHR

factsonly · Mon May 23, 2016 12:01 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 23):
But Oxford has a world class Hub airport on its doorstep, called LHR, who would take a plane to AMS to change?

Well, for a start...... all the OXF people travelling to the 137 worldwide destinations not served by LHR.

Number of destinations served:
- AMS = 322
- LHR = 185

While every year Cargo shippers are sending over 100.000 tons of cargo more over AMS than LHR.

SelseyBill · Mon May 23, 2016 12:03 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 23):
But Oxford has a world class Hub airport on its doorstep, called LHR, who would take a plane to AMS to change?

Having lived and worked in Oxford for a few years, I would certainly use OXF-AMS to get to China for example, rather than make the often fraught journey to LHR via the M40/M25.

And that was the mistake BA made when they jilted KL; they assumed people liked travelling BA; (which they do); but the reason more folks don't use BA is because they have to make often difficult journeys to get to LHR. Millions of Brits would prefer the relative ease of using their nearest regional airport and travel via another European hub, and often have their bags checked through to their final destination.

As much as I love flying BA; I'm getting very used to flying from a UK regional to get to the world via AMS or DXB, and my family certainly now will avoid LHR at all costs......

factsonly · Mon May 23, 2016 12:12 pm

FlyBe is making a bit of a show of the first DND arrival, overflying both Dundee and Perth:

http://www.flightradar24.com/BEE1YF/9cc7935

http://twitter.com/DNDAirport/status/734725780043890688

[Edited 2016-05-23 06:08:07]

Summa767 · Mon May 23, 2016 1:31 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 24):
Well, for a start...... all the OXF people travelling to the 137 worldwide destinations not served by LHR.

Number of destinations served:
- AMS = 322
- LHR = 185

Indeed. Plus many more start their journey at LHR to transfer onto another hub, such as AMS, FRA, CDG etc, even when direct flights from LHR are available.

Buyantukhaa · Mon May 23, 2016 2:32 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 5):
Are we forgetting any?

There was NWI-DHR for about two weeks in 2013 if I remember...

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/...ancels-norwich-den-helder-service/

factsonly · Mon May 23, 2016 3:10 pm

A sunny arrival in Dundee of the inaugural FlyBe service.

http://twitter.com/DNDAirport/status/734738865341247489

oly720man · Mon May 23, 2016 3:40 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 5):

Though it is unlikely that further UK-AMS routes will be opened, these are former UK-AMS routes now defunct:

- Coventry-AMS - Thomsonfly
- Bournemouth-AMS - FlyBe, Thomsonfly
- Prestwick-AMS - Transavia
- Manston-AMS - KLMCityhopper
- Ipswich-AMS - Suckling Airways

Are we forgetting any?

Sheffield City (before DSA) had various routes before closing in 2001 including KLM to AMS with F50's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCekf8u9Tr8

SCQ83 · Mon May 23, 2016 5:22 pm

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 22):
Many of us believe KLM was a better partner for BA than IB; and the proposed BA/KLM 'marriage' would have been the better bet for both than their current partners.

I don't understand why KL is ""better"" than IB. At the current valuation, IAG could buy KLM.

In any case IB has turned to be an excellent complement for BA.

And there is still VY. Considering that (as I wrote previously) UK to Spain is the largest market in the world, and it is clearly holiday/leisure-oriented, Vueling has an enormous potential there.

eurowings · Tue May 24, 2016 9:56 am

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 13):
Blackpool was served by Jet2 for some years.

Indeed, I remember flying BLK-AMS with Jet2 in December 2006. The load was very poor; about 20%-30% in both directions. They also flew BLK-PRG for a few years. I think both routes closed in late 2007.

AirbusA6 · Tue May 24, 2016 11:17 am

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 25):

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 23):
But Oxford has a world class Hub airport on its doorstep, called LHR, who would take a plane to AMS to change?

Having lived and worked in Oxford for a few years, I would certainly use OXF-AMS to get to China for example, rather than make the often fraught journey to LHR via the M40/M25.

And that was the mistake BA made when they jilted KL; they assumed people liked travelling BA; (which they do); but the reason more folks don't use BA is because they have to make often difficult journeys to get to LHR. Millions of Brits would prefer the relative ease of using their nearest regional airport and travel via another European hub, and often have their bags checked through to their final destination.

As much as I love flying BA; I'm getting very used to flying from a UK regional to get to the world via AMS or DXB, and my family certainly now will avoid LHR at all costs......

Flying from the UK Regions via AMS or DXB makes a lot of sense, it's just that most people wouldn't consider Oxford a "region" in the same way as Newcastle, Exeter or Norwich are. And 1, maybe 2 flights a day from OXF to AMS means that connections are likely to be poor.

Besides, if you don't want to drive there are always trains to Reading and the railair coach. Indeed once the western rail link to LHR is built, you will be able to get direct or one stop trains there from Oxford.

mutu · Tue May 24, 2016 1:47 pm

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 22):
Many of us believe KLM was a better partner for BA than IB; and the proposed BA/KLM 'marriage' would have been the better bet for both than their current partners.

Unfortunately; 'londoncentric' BA wanted to transfer all UK traffic via LHR; and didn't appreciate that KLM via AMS would have opened up the entire 'UK to the World' market for them, and would have probably meant that BA/KLM would have been in a much better place to take on the subsequent ME3 UK invasion.

Never did like Eddington........

Not true. The issue was simple. BA believed the structure they put in place meant KLM would still be a Dutch carrier for bilateral - but KLM management and lawyers were not totally convinced. The risk was KLM could actually lose all rights to fly outside of the EU

Caution prevailed. And quite understandably

Today of course structures have been developed to overcome the same issue - so with hindsight Eddington was probably right but no one could blame anyone for being unsure.

I remember the day very well, my birthday in 2000, when the deal collapsed. I had hoped to be celebrating a completion but....

mutu · Tue May 24, 2016 1:52 pm

And the first attempt at a merger in 1992 never got very far due to arguments over valuations...

incidentally reverting back to my earlier post, had the parties agreed a deal, the US then stated they wanted a UK-USA Open Skies deal before approving BA/KLM. This would then have gone to the UK politicos who would probably have blocked it to protect the smaller UK carrier (VS) on TATL

BasilFawlty · Tue May 24, 2016 3:35 pm

Quoting sirdanilot (Reply 19):
Still I don't think the Eurostar is going to even slightly compete with air traffic, price-wise and speed-wise. Yes the advantage is that you travel from city center to city center, but the disadvantage is that the thing stops for about 1 hour for passport checks in France (one europe, yay...)

That was the original plan, the plans have now been revised and they're planning to do all passport and security checks in The Netherlands. Journey time from Amsterdam to Londen will be just under 4 hours.

factsonly · Sat May 28, 2016 8:19 am

It seems that the Scots have noticed that AMS is connected to more Scottish airports than either LHR or LGW.

Yesterday Johnny Walker opened its first Johnny Walker House outside AustralAsia at AMS:

http://www.johnniewalkerhouse.com/home

LondonCity · Sat May 28, 2016 3:25 pm

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 36):
That was the original plan, the plans have now been revised and they're planning to do all passport and security checks in The Netherlands. Journey time from Amsterdam to Londen will be just under 4 hours.

But it is still not confirmed. And what about those passengers who join the Amsterdam-London Eurostar train en route ?

The intention is to depart Amsterdam and then stop at Schiphol, Rotterdam and Antwerp en route.

According to the railway press, "Eurostar would *prefer* immigration controls at Amsterdam" so it's not definite at all.

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...confirms-plans-for-new-routes.html

factsonly · Tue May 31, 2016 8:21 pm

Herewith a ranking of the 2015 number of flights operated from UK airports to......

It indicates the level of connectivity between the UK and other airports.

- Dublin 36,392 flights
- Amsterdam 33,373
- Edinburgh 31,098
- New York 21,658
- Madrid 20,478
- Geneva 20,424
- Glasgow 20,076
- Barcelona 19,351
- Paris 18,855
- Belfast 18,849
- Milan 18,788
- Frankfurt 18,194
- Zurich 16,891
- Rome 16,300
- Copenhagen 16,026
- Berlin 13,465
- Munich 12,822
- Stockholm 12,257
- Nice 10,968
- Malaga 10,874
- Dusseldorf 10,598
- Aberdeen 10,570
- Dubai 9,729
- Oslo 9,281
- Jersey 7,364
- Faro 7,284
- Alicante 7,163
- Brussels 6,902
- Manchester 6,303
- Los Angeles 6,247
- Cork 6,141
- Chicago 5,925
- Hong Kong 5,699
- Tel Aviv 5,422
- Newcastle 5,225
- Doha 5,097
- Toronto 5,056
- Delhi 4,426
- Singapore 4,327
- Washington 4,247
- Boston 3,935
- Miami 3,896
- Mumbai 3,747
- San Francisco 3,659
- Johannesburg 3,562
- Houston 3,504
- Marrakesh 3,322
- Atlanta 3,216
- Philadelphia 3,064
- Tokyo 2,928
- Abu Dhabi 2,916
- Dallas 2,775
- Orlando 2,421
- Lagos 2,220
- Cairo 2,176
- Beirut 2,168
- Seoul 2,162
- Beijing 2,155
- Shanghai 2,112
- Vancouver 1,961
- Calgary 1,728
- Muscat 1,456
- Sydney 1,455
- Kuwait 1,454
- Amman 1,440
- Nairobi 1,436
- Cape Town 1,422
- Jeddah 1,415

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