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SpaceshipDC10
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Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 12:06 am

The Los Angeles Fire Department has uploaded last year a series of color pictures about the aircraft during and after the fire that ensued its rejected takeoff from Los Angeles. It's not a nice sight but find it still worth looking at.

It involved this aircraft.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lafdhs/sets/72157627245492095

With the following link you can see each pictures separately with a short description of what happened that day. I have to say the captain of that flight was really unlucky that day: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lafdhs/20642173250/in/photostream/

Some more info here: http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19780301-0
 
traindoc
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 12:24 am

Thanks for sharing. As I was living in Seoul, Korea at the time, I was unaware of this accident. After looking at the pictures, it is amazing that there were only 2 fatalities.
 
crownvic
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 3:28 am

Despite the DC-10 and MD-11s record for fuel tank ruptures over the years when a main gear strut gives way, the passenger cabin remained mostly intact. I'm still a fan!
 
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FlyingJhawk
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 11:30 am

I'd like to think that Captain was damn lucky that day wasn't worse than it was. Still....helluva way to end your career.
 
Max Q
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 4:39 pm

Quoting FlyingJhawk (Reply 3):
I'd like to think that Captain was damn lucky that day wasn't worse than it was. Still....helluva way to end your career.

Doubt he thought so, no matter how exemplary the rest of his career was that's all he'd remember, his wife was in the jumpseat as well, terrible.


He'd have been better off taking it into the air than trying to stop, with a tire failure it's much easier stopping at the beginning of the runway with it's whole length available after dumping fuel to a much lower weight.



This was one of several accidents that started the trend away from rejected take off's if at all possible.



At V1 -5 knots and accelerating you continue the take off and deal with the issue in the air where you have time to deal with the problem and even if you have to make an immediate return you're far better off than trying to stop with compromised tires.



With few exceptions (Concorde) you're better off taking it airborne close to V1, we became GO oriented some time back and its paid off, a rejected take off can be a very hairy maneuver with potential fatal results as seen here.
 
A320FlyGuy
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 6:03 pm

One of the interesting aspects of that accident was that one of the flight attendants was Norma Heape....she was until recently the flight attendant with #1 in seniority at Continental.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuaJSKZ7EeM
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 6:18 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 4):

He'd have been better off taking it into the air than trying to stop, with a tire failure it's much easier stopping at the beginning of the runway with it's whole length available after dumping fuel to a much lower weight.

Why not continue the flight after taking off and checking out the plane? An emergency landing at HNL after burning off most of the fuel would have been safe.
 
D L X
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 6:23 pm

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 6):
Why not continue the flight after taking off and checking out the plane? An emergency landing at HNL after burning off most of the fuel would have been safe.

If the tires blew, doesn't that make it unsafe to retract the landing gear? If so, this plane would not have made it to Hawaii.
 
codc10
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 6:29 pm

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 6):
Why not continue the flight after taking off and checking out the plane? An emergency landing at HNL after burning off most of the fuel would have been safe.

Never in 1,000,000,000 years. No way to assess fully what happened on takeoff (precipitating the 'bang' and problems with directional control) in flight, and the mid-Pacific is an awfully unforgiving place to realize your problem is bigger than you anticipated.

A modern flight crew would never coast out - ever - on an extended overwater operation after suffering a clear-as-day major failure on takeoff roll, even if the aircraft was able to lift off and climb safely.

As an aside, I'm not sure if the Santa Ana winds were blowing that day, or if noise abatement wasn't such a major issue in 1978, but I always noticed the easterly operation in use at LAX at the time of the accident. Somewhat unusual.

Also, one of the crewmembers on that flight was Norma Heape, who is still with UA as the #1 flight attendant on the sCO subsidiary. Even in 1978 she was 20 years into her flight attendant career... truly remarkable!

[Edited 2016-05-24 11:30:41]
 
727LOVER
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 6:36 pm

Pics on this site as well



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Janet Olsen


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Thomas Luce
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Thomas Luce

 
D L X
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 6:39 pm

Quoting codc10 (Reply 8):
Even in 1978 she was 20 years into her flight attendant career... truly remarkable!

That would mean she's been a flight attendant for nearly 60 years. Is that possible? Is she really pushing 90?

Apparently, she was born in 1937, so she's pushing 80.

[Edited 2016-05-24 11:45:40]
 
727LOVER
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 6:44 pm

Is this what basically happened to TWA 843 & TWA 800 (the 707) ?
 
codc10
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 6:49 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
That would mean she's been a flight attendant for nearly 60 years. Is that possible? Is she really pushing 90?

I believe Norma was a 1957 hire, and in those days most women became flight attendants (stewardesses) at 18-20 and flew only for a few years. There are a number of flight attendants out there in the 70s and into their 80s, so this is not entirely unheard of.
 
747buff
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 7:02 pm

I may be digressing from the topic but isn't "Fire Station 80 North" in the second pic where US 1493 came to rest?

[Edited 2016-05-24 12:03:00]
 
trnswrld
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 7:33 pm

Different cause of events, but this sort of reminds me of the TWA JFK L1011 accident. I think everyone survived that, but it was another RTO at high speed.
 
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jsnww81
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 7:33 pm

Quoting codc10 (Reply 8):
As an aside, I'm not sure if the Santa Ana winds were blowing that day, or if noise abatement wasn't such a major issue in 1978, but I always noticed the easterly operation in use at LAX at the time of the accident. Somewhat unusual.

Very unusual. It takes some pretty serious winds to get them to turn things around during the day (nighttime is a different story, of course.) In 1978, maybe the bar was lower as the screaming about airport noise was still building in those days.

Had the airport been operating on the usual westbound flow pattern that day, the DC10 may have gone off the end of 6L and down the slope onto Pershing Drive. The accident may have been much more serious then.
 
 
futureorthopod
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 8:53 pm

Wow. I never knew about this crash...granted I'm an 80's baby.

Love Continental Airlines         
 
chrisair
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 9:38 pm

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 15):
Very unusual. It takes some pretty serious winds to get them to turn things around during the day (nighttime is a different story, of course.) In 1978, maybe the bar was lower as the screaming about airport noise was still building in those days.

If you look at one of the diagrams in the LAFD Flickr post, you'll see the winds were 032/15.

Quoting A320FlyGuy (Reply 5):
she was until recently the flight attendant with #1 in seniority at Continental

Where does she fall on the combined seniority list?

[Edited 2016-05-24 14:39:38]
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 11:17 pm

Quoting 747buff (Reply 13):

I may be digressing from the topic but isn't "Fire Station 80 North" in the second pic where US 1493 came to rest?

Yes, I believe that's the same building.

Also, here's a survivor testimony delivered by a (religoius) motivational speaker:

Donna Hartley - Surviving a Plane Crash, a near death experience
Source: Youtube (donnahartley1)
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Tue May 24, 2016 11:52 pm

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 6):
Why not continue the flight after taking off and checking out the plane? An emergency landing at HNL after burning off most of the fuel would have been safe.

What about the landing gear? Flying all the way with them extended? Not possible due to drag/fuel burn. Retracting them without knowing the damage extend and then taking the risk of not being able to extend them for landing? Not very wise.

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 14):
Different cause of events, but this sort of reminds me of the TWA JFK L1011 accident. I think everyone survived that, but it was another RTO at high speed.

If I remember well at least the nose gear had left the ground and perhaps the whole aircraft was off the ground before the pilot choose to land again due to abnormal reactions of the Tristar. It veered off the runway, JFK longest, to avoid collision with approach lights.
 
rugger
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Wed May 25, 2016 12:12 am

After looking at those photos, I can smell the smoke....
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Wed May 25, 2016 12:46 am

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 6):
Why not continue the flight after taking off and checking out the plane? An emergency landing at HNL after burning off most of the fuel would have been safe.
Nigeria Airways Flight 2120]Nigeria Airways Flight 2120
Source: Wikipedia

There's also an Air Crash Investigation episode on it.
 
pa747sp
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Wed May 25, 2016 12:55 am

If this is the crash I am thinking about one of the fatalities was a passenger who exited the aircraft safely then walked straight into the fire.
This example was used when I did my emergency response training to highlight how irrational people's behaviour can be following an incident.
 
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ADent
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Wed May 25, 2016 5:06 am

I have been on a flight with a blown tire on takeoff and we flew the flight and landed at the destination, albeit with Fire/Rescue waiting near the runway.

It wasn't over water though.
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Wed May 25, 2016 2:14 pm

Quoting pa747sp (Reply 23):
If this is the crash I am thinking about one of the fatalities was a passenger who exited the aircraft safely then walked straight into the fire.

Flight Attendant told them to not exit from that door, They both went down the chute straight into the fire.
 
D L X
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Wed May 25, 2016 2:53 pm

Quoting phatfarmlines (Reply 22):
Nigeria Airways Flight 2120]Nigeria Airways Flight 2120
Source: Wikipedia

"People began falling out of the aircraft when their seat harnesses burned through."

Well, that's pretty horrific. Geebus.

Quoting ADent (Reply 24):
I have been on a flight with a blown tire on takeoff and we flew the flight and landed at the destination, albeit with Fire/Rescue waiting near the runway.

Short flight?

I think more modern airliners have smoke and fire detectors in the wheel wells. I suppose that could make the difference.
 
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RRTrent
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Wed May 25, 2016 3:29 pm

Quoting traindoc (Reply 1):
it is amazing that there were only 2 fatalities

There was actually 4. According to Wikipedia, in 1978, only deaths within seven days of the accident had to be listed on the NTSB report. However; 2 more died from their injuries three months later. Even still, 4 is good (for want of a better word) considering the fire damage

One thing I noticed from the photos is the windows are clearly made from shatter proof glass, like a car windscreen.... I never knew airplane windows were made of glass, I always presumed it was acrylic.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Wed May 25, 2016 3:42 pm

Boeing guidance now is that you don't RTO above 80 knots for a tire failure. A TW 707 Freighter ended up in San Francisco Bay after an high speed RTO for a blown tire too.
 
GARUDAROD
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Wed May 25, 2016 10:01 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 9):
Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 9):
Pics on this site as well

What is interesting is the first photo shows the plane with the RED "Meatball"' whilst
the other two and the photos from the LAFD show it correctly with the Black "Meatball"
 
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cageyjames
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Wed May 25, 2016 10:16 pm

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 29):
What is interesting is the first photo shows the plane with the RED "Meatball"' whilst
the other two and the photos from the LAFD show it correctly with the Black "Meatball"

I'm sure it is just an issue with the photo quality. Clearly it is the correct aircraft.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Wed May 25, 2016 10:36 pm

One other point about this crash:

Had widebody takeoffs been allowed on the 7 / 25s when this crash occurred, there would have been an extra 2,000 feet of runway for the crew to work with. This could have enabled the aircraft to be stopped on the runway, instead of sliding off the end.

The reason widebody takeoffs were not allowed on the 7 / 25s is because the Sepulveda tunnel was not strong enough to absorb their weight. The tunnel was reinforced in the early 1980s, as part of the same pre-Olympics upgrade that added TBIT and T1, and the upper level roadway.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Wed May 25, 2016 10:47 pm

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 29):
What is interesting is the first photo shows the plane with the RED "Meatball"' whilst
the other two and the photos from the LAFD show it correctly with the Black "Meatball"

Everything on that picture looks a more orange or red than it should. It's either related to the state of the printed copy or negative, or it is simply due to the light and fire at the moment it was made. Usually when an aircraft burn, the smoke is black, not red/orange.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Wed May 25, 2016 11:11 pm

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 15):

Had the airport been operating on the usual westbound flow pattern that day, the DC10 may have gone off the end of 6L and down the slope onto Pershing Drive. The accident may have been much more serious then.

Really it would have plowed into the service road ditch first. That thing's pretty deep and wide.

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 31):

The reason widebody takeoffs were not allowed on the 7 / 25s is because the Sepulveda tunnel was not strong enough to absorb their weight. The tunnel was reinforced in the early 1980s, as part of the same pre-Olympics upgrade that added TBIT and T1, and the upper level roadway.

No shit, huh? Wow. Learn something new everyday. And I've been working LAX for the last four years.
 
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jsnww81
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Wed May 25, 2016 11:34 pm

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 33):
Really it would have plowed into the service road ditch first. That thing's pretty deep and wide.

True, and that ditch would have made things pretty nasty as well.

Come to think of it, I'm not sure Pershing had been extended south in 1978. South of Manitoba Street it was a two-lane blacktop for most of the 1960s and 1970s that ran across what are now the remote TBIT stands and then cut down to Main Street in El Segundo. The current four-lane Pershing, with the cloverleaf flyover for World Way West, was built sometime in the 1970s, but I'm not sure when.

I've spoken with a few long-timers here in Playa del Rey who remember being able to see the smoke from their yards. One woman said she was shopping in the commercial district along Sepulveda north of the airport and could actually see the aircraft on fire when she came out of the store.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Thu May 26, 2016 12:22 pm

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 34):
I've spoken with a few long-timers here in Playa del Rey who remember being able to see the smoke from their yards.

I'm sure Continental employees in both the World Way West headquarters and the Continental Plaza office tower on El Segundo Boulevard could see the smoke, too. It must have been a pretty horrible day to be working in either of those buildings.
 
JFKCMILAXFLL
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Thu May 26, 2016 12:30 pm

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 34):
Come to think of it, I'm not sure Pershing had been extended south in 1978. South of Manitoba Street it was a two-lane blacktop for most of the 1960s and 1970s that ran across what are now the remote TBIT stands and then cut down to Main Street in El Segundo. The current four-lane Pershing, with the cloverleaf flyover for World Way West, was built sometime in the 1970s, but I'm not sure when.

I'm pretty sure it had been extended by March 1978. I would occasionally ride the old RTD 877 bus line (long gone), which used Pershing Drive to access World Way West, then back on Pershing to Imperial and on to the bus terminal at 98th/Vicksburg east of the airport (this was before the current City Bus Center used by MTA and other agencies, at that time, it was just a layover zone in 98th St and Vicksburg Av. The city buses would stop there, and you would connect to a free Minibus shuttle to access the terminals. Once the City Bus Center opened shortly before the 1984 Summer Olympics, RTD eliminated the shuttle, and passengers would transfer to the LAWA Lot C buses to get to the terminal area).
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Thu May 26, 2016 1:00 pm

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 29):
What is interesting is the first photo shows the plane with the RED "Meatball"' whilst
the other two and the photos from the LAFD show it correctly with the Black "Meatball"

Ship # 045 never wore the 'Red' meatball. The 'Red' meatball came about in 1985 at LAX.

Quoting RRTrent (Reply 27):
One thing I noticed from the photos is the windows are clearly made from shatter proof glass, like a car windscreen.... I never knew airplane windows were made of glass, I always presumed it was acrylic.

Quite a bit different from a car windshield. Two pieces of glass with a heating layer and plastic sandwiched between them. Some say they shatter.



Had a Airbus divert that had a window heat problem just the other day. The cracks came through to the inside of the window, where it was shooting little shards of glass at the captain.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm233/CALTECHphoto/20160521_073036_zpsvsxuc7gj.jpg
 
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RRTrent
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Thu May 26, 2016 1:19 pm

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 37):

I was referring to the passenger windows... in the photos of the crash because they are broken, you can see that they are made from glass.

great pics by the way... doesn't the 757 cockpit still look great even with smashed windows  
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Thu May 26, 2016 1:26 pm

Quoting RRTrent (Reply 38):
I was referring to the passenger windows... in the photos of the crash because they are broken, you can see that they are made from glass.

The passenger windows are acrylic, no glass. Those photos seem to show the acrylic bubbling.


Yeah the 757 is a great bird.  

[Edited 2016-05-26 06:28:15]
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Thu May 26, 2016 1:55 pm

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 31):
Had widebody takeoffs been allowed on the 7 / 25s when this crash occurred, there would have been an extra 2,000 feet of runway for the crew to work with. This could have enabled the aircraft to be stopped on the runway, instead of sliding off the end.

In this incident, the Captain tried to turn on the taxiway as he was running out of runway. When the aircraft departed the pavement, the left main gear broke off, taking the rear spar with it, allowing the fuel tank to drain. This wasn't supposed to happen. The gear was supposed to shear off leaving the rear spar intact. There was a lawsuit brought against McDonnell Douglas.

Russian airplanes can go cross-country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogb69OBceRI

Ship # 045, a DC-10-10, had the core reversers on it.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5756/20617957389_b81d0fea2b_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5710/20206479824_34e2f215f1_b.jpg
 
D L X
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Thu May 26, 2016 2:22 pm

Was the plane aflame before it came to a stop?
 
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RRTrent
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Thu May 26, 2016 3:14 pm

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 39):
The passenger windows are acrylic, no glass.

It looks like broken glass to me... but you have a more substantial aviation history that I'll ever have... so I'll go with with what you say  Big grin

[Edited 2016-05-26 08:14:55]
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Thu May 26, 2016 3:16 pm

It was said it was on fire before it stopped, fuel pouring down on the engine exhaust....
 
D L X
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Thu May 26, 2016 4:06 pm

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 43):
It was said it was on fire before it stopped, fuel pouring down on the engine exhaust.

Yeah, that's no good.

It makes me think that US1702 (PHL in 2014) was rather fortunate, rejecting at over 160 kts.

Thanks for your always great info!

[Edited 2016-05-26 09:14:02]
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Thu May 26, 2016 7:39 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
Was the plane aflame before it came to a stop?

NTSB reports the following:

- about 100ft beyond the runway, left main landing gear failed rearward. Fire erupted immediately from that area. The DC-10 stopped about 664ft beyond runway's end.


In the linked below thread, fellow member CF-CPI says:

"As I recall, CO was using retreaded tires, a factor which contributed to the blowout. While not every airline used them, it was legal to do so, but after this accident the practice was discontinued. "

CO DC10 Accident From 1978? (by Cx flyboy Nov 9 2001 in Civil Aviation)
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Fri May 27, 2016 3:57 am

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 45):
"As I recall, CO was using retreaded tires, a factor which contributed to the blowout. While not every airline used them, it was legal to do so, but after this accident the practice was discontinued. "

In the lowly Lorenzo days, CAL went back to retreads. Rumor was it was Lorenzo's wife who owned the company. Rash of tire blowouts. Think we use re-treads now, which is why we have our tire wear limits, to save the carcass for retreading.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Fri May 27, 2016 10:23 am

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 46):
In the lowly Lorenzo days, CAL went back to retreads.

Not really surprised by that.
 
Max Q
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Sat May 28, 2016 2:47 am

I think we used water colors to paint the Aircraft as well in that era.



I picked up a freshly painted 727-200 from the hangar in LAX, looked fantastic, until we landed
and it was already starting to peel off.



Nothing was cheap enough back then..
 
F9Animal
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RE: Continental #603 Accident LAX 1978 (pictures)

Sat May 28, 2016 3:41 am

It appears the pilots did everything right, based on the accident report. He also turned the plane to the right before leaving the runway. The NTSB says that move likely prevented a much more serious crash.

The photos are amazing. I am surprised more lives weren't lost. The fire department did a heck of a job!

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Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos