Hong Kong Express To Put 188 Seats In A320neo

KarelXWB · Tue May 24, 2016 2:31 pm

Hong Kong Express will take sardine cans to the next level and plans to put a record 188 seats in their upcoming A320neo aircraft.

Source
http://twitter.com/e_russell

Flighty · Tue May 24, 2016 2:34 pm

Passengers will probably look like they had been in a Van Damme movie as they exit the aircraft, bruised and in despair.

airbazar · Tue May 24, 2016 3:13 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
Hong Kong Express will take sardine cans to the next level and plans to put a record 188 seats in their upcoming A320neo aircraft.

That's pretty standard for a single-class A320. U2 has 180 seats and AK has 190 seats. At least they're 18" wide seats. Could be far worse if it was on a 737.

KarelXWB · Tue May 24, 2016 3:15 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 2):
AK has 190 seats

I don't think that's possible, I'd be happy to see a seat map.

Polot · Tue May 24, 2016 3:36 pm

AK's A320 seat 180 (will be 186 on Neos). According to Airbus 189 seats is the maximum number of seats that can fit in the A320 with current slim-line seats and space saving galleys. The plane is certified up to 195 seats though, someone just needs to develop a way to squeeze out more space for another row.

gatibosgru · Tue May 24, 2016 3:38 pm

Yikes, you'll be virtually smelling the hair of the person in front of you :X

frigatebird · Tue May 24, 2016 3:44 pm

I suspect it wouldn't be much different from 200 pax in a Boeing 737-8 MAX-200 though (not sure about the official designation - sorry)

btw nice to see you back here Karel

gatibosgru · Tue May 24, 2016 3:46 pm

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 6):

I suspect it wouldn't be much different from 200 pax in a Boeing 737-8 MAX-200 though (not sure about the official designation - sorry)

At least the seats are a big wider on the NEO

nws2002 · Tue May 24, 2016 4:00 pm

G4 is preparing to reconfigure their A320 acft from 177 to 186.

neutronstar73 · Tue May 24, 2016 4:13 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 2):
That's pretty standard for a single-class A320. U2 has 180 seats and AK has 190 seats. At least they're 18" wide seats. Could be far worse if it was on a 737.

That "18in wide" nonsense has got to stop. 18 in wide is not some magical comfort level; it is a pure marketing trick that a lot of people have eaten up like eager little fish. 18 inch wide means nothing when you have sub-30in pitch, 1 degree recline, and a tray table you might at well eat rather than use for anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCvAjln7vno

Seriously, that "18in seat is the bestest ever!" cheerleading is quite hilarious, as it is purely a marketing troll line that picked up a whole lot of people. Unfortunately (for Airbus), Tim Clark and a whole bunch of others shot that down fairly quickly.

aerokiwi · Tue May 24, 2016 4:30 pm

What's with the :general over-ordering evident" comment next to the A320NEO? Is this commentary on the state of the orderbook?

ec99 · Tue May 24, 2016 4:48 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 9):
That "18in wide" nonsense has got to stop

The marginal advantage of a little bit extra width in a seat is going to make only a very small difference compared to the cramped legroom although every bit helps. Air Asia has an all economy A320 with 180 seats and 29-inch legroom. I’d be curious if Hong Kong Express has new seats that will be a bit thinner or if there have been other cabin redesigns to add floor space. If not they are going to need to go below 29 inch pitch to up the seat count and that is going to be very uncomfortable.

Out of curiosity, are there any airlines that fly the 738 with 28-29 inch pitch? The 738 is 6 feet longer but has about the same max capacity. Seems to me that for low cost carriers reducing pitch in the A320 is a lot more attractive since even in an all regular econ layout you need to get down to about 29 inches to even get close to max capacity - see air asia A320. Whereas FR gets to 189 seats with 30 inches of pitch plus 51 seats with 32-34 inches of pitch,

Certainly a 737 with 28 inches of pitch would be a bit worse than a comparable A320 (although to me it’s the different between getting hit in the ribs with a 94 MPH fastball vs a 99MPH fastball)

Polot · Tue May 24, 2016 4:55 pm

Quoting ec99 (Reply 11):
I’d be curious if Hong Kong Express has new seats that will be a bit thinner or if there have been other cabin redesigns to add floor space. If not they are going to need to go below 29 inch pitch to up the seat count and that is going to be very uncomfortable.

HK express will have spaceflex galleys/lav and I assume 28" slimlines.

Quoting ec99 (Reply 11):
Out of curiosity, are there any airlines that fly the 738 with 28-29 inch pitch? The 738 is 6 feet longer but has about the same max capacity. Seems to me that for low cost carriers reducing pitch in the A320 is a lot more attractive since even in an all regular econ layout you need to get down to about 29 inches to even get close to max capacity - see air asia A320. Whereas FR gets to 189 seats with 30 inches of pitch plus 51 seats with 32-34 inches of pitch,

Certainly a 737 with 28 inches of pitch would be a bit worse than a comparable A320 (although to me it’s the different between getting hit in the ribs with a 94 MPH fastball vs a 99MPH fastball)

The 738 is exit limited to 189 seats, not volume limited. Because of that you can put 189 seats in it at 30-31" pitch since the 738 cabin is slightly larger than the A320 cabin. With the 737 Max 200, however, Boeing is adding an additional pair of exits (from the 739ER/737-9Max) so the 738 will no longer be exit limited to 189 seats and airlines will be able to squeeze in close to 200 (in reality likely closer to 194-197 seats) with 28" pitch.

Francoflier · Tue May 24, 2016 5:13 pm

I suppose the picture is from an internal presentation or press conference of some sort.

But what would the mention "General over-ordering evident" mean, next to the order information for the NEOs?

incitatus · Tue May 24, 2016 6:20 pm

Oh well. I remember several years ago the arguments in a.net that low-cost carriers would NEVER thrive in Asia because the Asian travelling demanded the high standards of comfort and onboard service such as offered by airlines like Cathay and Singapore.

That contrasted with my own anecdotal travel experience with Asian friends, who were always trying to get the best deal on everything. They loved frills - but for free!

Now air travel in Asia is going to hell in a hand basket!

debonair · Tue May 24, 2016 7:43 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 2):
That's pretty standard for a single-class A320. U2 has 180 seats

U2 will take all newly delivered A320's with 186seats

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 8):

G4 is preparing to reconfigure their A320 acft from 177 to 186.

Are you serious? AFAIK, 186 seats are only possible with the spaceflex galleys/lav - otherwise the max. is 180Y! So a complete remodelling would be necessary; and I doubt that G4 is having the necessary money...

[Edited 2016-05-24 12:44:49]

Polot · Tue May 24, 2016 7:48 pm

Quoting debonair (Reply 15):
Are you serious? AFAIK, 186 seats are only possible with the spaceflex galleys/lav - otherwise the max. is 180Y! So a complete remodelling would be necessary; and I doubt that G4 is having the necessary money...

G4 can afford it. Just because they are cheap doesn't mean they are broke.

Stitch · Tue May 24, 2016 9:19 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 9):
That "18in wide" nonsense has got to stop.

It's academic now, anyway, with Southwest announcing they will be installing 18" wide seats on their 737MAX airframes so now both the neo and MAX can be equally comfortable/uncomfortable.

[Edited 2016-05-24 14:20:04]

nws2002 · Tue May 24, 2016 11:01 pm

Quoting debonair (Reply 15):
Are you serious? AFAIK, 186 seats are only possible with the spaceflex galleys/lav - otherwise the max. is 180Y! So a complete remodelling would be necessary; and I doubt that G4 is having the necessary money...

Yes, spaceflex. G4 has plenty of money, they are among the most profitable airlines in the world.

PlanesNTrains · Tue May 24, 2016 11:01 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 2):
That's pretty standard for a single-class A320. U2 has 180 seats and AK has 190 seats. At least they're 18" wide seats. Could be far worse if it was on a 737.

Curious what the pitch is in a 188 seat A320 vs a 189 seat 737? For me, personally, lack of pitch is perhaps the #2 turn off after an uncomfortable cushion. Certainly a wider seat is nicer but it doesn't bother me the same as my knees touching the seat in front of me (or close).

-Dave

MesaFlyGuy · Tue May 24, 2016 11:54 pm

Spirit has the same amount of rows in their space-flex a320s (designated the 32A), but only has 184 due to the two row of BFS up front.

coolian2 · Wed May 25, 2016 12:38 am

If 18 inches wide is enough to let me put one of my legs under me, damn sure it matters. That resolves the lack of pitch, somewhat.

UALWN · Wed May 25, 2016 12:41 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
t's academic now, anyway, with Southwest announcing they will be installing 18" wide seats on their 737MAX airframes so now both the neo and MAX can be equally comfortable/uncomfortable.

Except that to achieve this WN will have to reduce the aisle width considerably, which entails its own issues.

BestWestern · Wed May 25, 2016 2:37 am

Quoting incitatus (Reply 14):
Now air travel in Asia is going to hell in a hand basket!

Over the past three weeks I've flown four Asian low cost carriers on sector lengths of up to Three hours thirty. Believe me that Asian LCCs are much better than their European counterparts. Air Asia is simply fantastic.

Interestingly, I also flew Silkair and found their 738 seating to be the most uncomfortable of the lot and very tightly packed. A further example of standards on LCC's and full service carriers converging. MI have inflight movie streaming but nowhere to prop up your device - really really stupid. Lovely lunch though.

Stitch · Wed May 25, 2016 2:44 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
t's academic now, anyway, with Southwest announcing they will be installing 18" wide seats on their 737MAX airframes so now both the neo and MAX can be equally comfortable/uncomfortable.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 22):
Except that to achieve this WN will have to reduce the aisle width considerably, which entails its own issues.

You can only narrow the aisles so much by regulation so at worse they're around 17 inches, which is what you find on the 787 and 777 at 9/10 abreast.

rheinwaldner · Wed May 25, 2016 3:55 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):

It's academic now, anyway, with Southwest announcing they will be installing 18" wide seats on their 737MAX airframes so now both the neo and MAX can be equally comfortable/uncomfortable.

That kind of seats (tiny armrests, or whatever) would be 19" on the A320. So I cant believe what you are saying...

dc9northwest · Wed May 25, 2016 4:48 am

I suggest making the A320NEO a double decker. Each passenger carries another passenger on his/her shoulders.

N1120A · Wed May 25, 2016 7:14 am

Quoting gatibosgru (Reply 7):
At least the seats are a big wider on the NEO

They aren't necessarily wider. Many airlines choose to use the space on the aisle and not do anything for the seats.

APYu · Wed May 25, 2016 7:57 am

This will be fine for this airline, as people in that part of the world are in general more petite than westerners.

burnsie28 · Wed May 25, 2016 1:34 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 12):
The 738 is exit limited to 189 seats, not volume limited. Because of that you can put 189 seats in it at 30-31" pitch

GOL has 69 seats at 29" pitch on their 189 seat 738's.

winGl3t · Wed May 25, 2016 1:43 pm

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 29):
GOL has 69 seats at 29" pitch on their 189 seat 738's.

Not any longer. All GOL's 738 are fitted with 177 seats at 34" pitch (7 first rows) and 31" pitch on the other rows.

PlanesNTrains · Wed May 25, 2016 3:36 pm

Quoting rheinwaldner (Reply 25):
That kind of seats (tiny armrests, or whatever) would be 19" on the A320. So I cant believe what you are saying...

Huh? Southwest is increasing the cushion size of their upcoming seats from 17.1" to 17.8" aka 18". They are reducing the size of the armrests in the process.

This doesn't address pitch.
This doesn't address aisle.
This doesn't address actual passenger space.

But it does address the cushion. What more is there to say?

-Dave

Stitch · Wed May 25, 2016 4:03 pm

Quoting rheinwaldner (Reply 25):
That kind of seats (tiny armrests, or whatever) would be 19" on the A320. So I cant believe what you are saying...

Well maybe somebody will put 19" seats on an A320 and we can have this whole asinine argument all over again.

But until they do, the 737 MAX and A320neo can both be equipped with 18" seats which, according to Airbus and Airbus Aficionados, is the "standard" for Economy Class comfort.

PlanesNTrains · Wed May 25, 2016 4:05 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 32):
Well maybe somebody will put 19" seats on an A320 and we can have this whole asinine argument all over again.

Ain't it the truth.

-Dave

767driver · Wed May 25, 2016 5:06 pm

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 20):

Spirit has the same amount of rows in their space-flex a320s (designated the 32A), but only has 184 due to the two row of BFS up front.

182. The space flex 320s have 2 rows of BFS

bmacleod · Wed May 25, 2016 5:35 pm

188 seats in a A320..that's really pushing it.

That number may work in a A321 but not a A320.

MesaFlyGuy · Wed May 25, 2016 9:28 pm

Quoting 767driver (Reply 34):

Ah, thank you. And to think I work those SpaceFlex a320s every day!

airbazar · Thu May 26, 2016 2:15 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):
I don't think that's possible, I'd be happy to see a seat map.

You're right I miscounted. Oops.
Still in the NEO with spaceflex 188 will probably be the new norm.

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 9):

That "18in wide" nonsense has got to stop. 18 in wide is not some magical comfort level

For those of us who aren't too tall but have broad shoulders it make a difference. I have no problem with 31" pitch (never tried 30"). Give me a wider seat any day over a longer pitch. Just saying

[Edited 2016-05-25 19:22:02]

jman40 · Thu May 26, 2016 5:44 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 37):

For those of us who aren't too tall but have broad shoulders it make a difference. I have no problem with 31" pitch (never tried 30"). Give me a wider seat any day over a longer pitch. Just saying

Agree 100%. I have the same body type as George Costanza. Not even Air Asia's pitch bothers me, but I'll always seek out a wider seat if it is a reasonable option.

PlanesNTrains · Thu May 26, 2016 7:33 pm

Quoting jman40 (Reply 38):
I have the same body type as George Costanza.

Now there's a visual.

Of course, when you're me and you look like Newman, you can't really comment on other people. haha

-Dave

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