Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
rdwootty
Topic Author
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:28 am

Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Fri May 27, 2016 9:29 pm

Reading some of the complaints about Westjet it seems that the high useage of the 767 fleet means cancellations .
I have noted some delays and some cancellations this month and more worrying is the lack of staff at Gatwick able to sort the problem. Maybe they need a couple of Actual Westjet Employees there . It is fine to use subcontractors but with the large number of flights there needs to be someone with authority to sort problems.
Popping out to give meal vouchers is not customer service. Information is what the customer wants and if Westjet leave the Gatwick operation as is it will not be long before the press get hold of it and have the pictures of tearfull customers wailing their grief tgo all and sundry.. Not what Westjet want I suspect
 
santos
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:46 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Fri May 27, 2016 9:43 pm

I have seen a Westjet B767 parked at LGW in a remote stand for 3/4 days now. Believe it went tech
 
TC957
Posts: 4454
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Fri May 27, 2016 9:48 pm

I guess there's always HiFly or Omni to bail them out when required.
But yes, one of 4 of their fleet going tech isn't a great start for their LGW ops.7
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7227
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Fri May 27, 2016 10:00 pm

Quoting santos (Reply 1):
I have seen a Westjet B767 parked at LGW in a remote stand for 3/4 days now. Believe it went tech

Must have been C-GOGN since it was at LGW between May 20th 9:11am and May 24th, 14:06.



http://www.flightradar24.com/reg/c-fwad http://www.flightradar24.com/reg/c-gogn http://www.flightradar24.com/reg/c-fogt http://www.flightradar24.com/reg/c-fogj
 
Gazdon121
Posts: 539
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:09 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sat May 28, 2016 2:05 am

Quoting TC957 (Reply 2):

even Titan there only a 17 minute hop from STN
 
Beatyair
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:09 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sat May 28, 2016 2:54 am

I hope they sort it out. With only 4 767's and an aggressive schedule there really is not much room for maintenance issues. Since BA is there codeshare partner, do they help out? At the beginning of the year Westjet was looking at adding to the fleet or buying new. Have not heard anything new. I would guess they add another 767 to the fleet for now and some staff to the UK.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 8787
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sat May 28, 2016 3:14 am

Quoting rdwootty (Thread starter):
Popping out to give meal vouchers is not customer service. Information is what the customer wants and if Westjet leave the Gatwick operation as is it will not be long before the press get hold of it and have the pictures of tearfull customers wailing their grief tgo all and sundry.. Not what Westjet want I suspect

WestJet isn't what it used to be - they're growing, with growth comes change. I do hope they get things sorted out though, I would like to see them expand their international network.
 
YVRLTN
Posts: 2354
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:49 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sat May 28, 2016 3:34 am

WestJet have built a reputation at home for great customer service and being the pax's friend. I am personally not so enthralled, but at home they have that reputation to fall back on. In the UK for UK origin passengers, this is going to cause a bad taste in the mouth and scare people away, for those in the know might bring back memories of Zoom and Globespan, for others make them go back to TS or LHR.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 2):

I guess there's always HiFly or Omni to bail them out when required.

Omni have operated at least one of the YVR flights.
 
wingflaps
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:06 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sat May 28, 2016 10:10 am

I managed to book some ridiculously cheap flights with them to Toronto this summer on the first day of bookings. About 350 pounds each return when both BA and AC wanted over a thousand. I'm prepared therefore to cope philosophically with teething problems but agree such sympathy probably wouldn't extend to a rebooking if I end up with a cancellation or a delay extending into the next day. Still I was one of the lucky ones who got away with two on time flights on Globespan's Stansted to Hamilton route which (while a bit like playing Russian roulette) was convenient as I live north of London and have family in Buffalo.
 
pjack
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2000 2:58 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sat May 28, 2016 3:48 pm

I have booked a trip to YYZ in August and paid £1200 for four of us and I am almost resigned to the fact there will be a delay on the outbound journey. We flew with them back in 2001 in western Canada and found them innovative and fresh compared to BA at the time and this and the price made me choose them over the other carriers from LGW. Time to brush up on the EU compensation rules I think!
 
wingflaps
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:06 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sat May 28, 2016 6:10 pm

It certainly makes for interesting meal planning. In an ideal world we would have lunch in the departure lounge, cope for 8 hours and then Tim Hortons in Toronto! More than 2 hours delay and might have to plump for one of those pre booked meals, not that they looked particularly appetising. Decisions, decisions!
 
richardw
Posts: 3168
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sat May 28, 2016 10:25 pm

Quoting pjack (Reply 9):

Yes time to brush up on EU 261/2004 which has absolute rights to re-routing by any air carrier in the event of cancellations from Gatwick.
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1807
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sat May 28, 2016 11:34 pm

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 7):
Omni have operated at least one of the YVR flights.

The Omni B763 has been wet leased for a month and sits on standby in YYC for any issues that arise. It has operated a few flights so far from YVR, YYC, YEG and YYZ....
 
zkncj
Posts: 4676
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sat May 28, 2016 11:44 pm

Quoting Beatyair (Reply 5):

I hope they sort it out. With only 4 767's and an aggressive schedule there really is not much room for maintenance issues

Add to that they we're already having major maintenance issues towards there the end of there life with Qantas, you would have though that would have been an clear warning to Westjet.

Maybe they didn't understand, if you're going to start an new service with 20 year old 763s your going to have trouble.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sun May 29, 2016 12:57 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 13):
Maybe they didn't understand, if you're going to start an new service with 20 year old 763s your going to have trouble.

Three of the 4 763s are 25 years old, delivered to QF in 1991. The fourth is 22 years old. All are older than WestJet which started service in 1996 (ironically with 4 very well-used 737-200s which were 24 to 27 years old at the time, and all with at least half a dozen previous operators).
 
User avatar
a36001
Posts: 404
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:47 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sun May 29, 2016 1:16 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 13):

Friendly question - but what major maintenance issues were Qantas having? Was the 767 a hangar queen for Qantas? I'm wondering if this has more to do with growing pains for Westjet than the aircraft itself.  

[Edited 2016-05-28 18:38:08]
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sun May 29, 2016 1:36 am

Quoting a36001 (Reply 15):
I'm wondering if this more to do with growing pains for Westjet than the aircraft itself.

Sounds like WS also has to remember than the 763 is slightly larger than a 737. Following YYC incident dated May 25 from the Transport Canada daily occurence reports:

A WestJet Boeing 767-338 (C-FOGT) under tow from the Westjet hangar to Gate 17 was observed leaving the Taxiway into the grass while making the turn onto Taxiway Foxtrot, when the right main landing gear damaged a Taxiway light. The tow was advised by ground as well as airport operations. There was no operational impact.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4676
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sun May 29, 2016 2:40 am

Quoting a36001 (Reply 15):
Friendly question - but what major maintenance issues were Qantas having? Was the 767 a hangar queen for Qantas? I'm wondering if this has more to do with growing pains for Westjet than the aircraft itself.  

For the last couple of years of service, they we'rent the best of operational reasons e.g needing repairs etc due to age.
 
Andy33
Posts: 2570
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sun May 29, 2016 5:17 am

Quoting richardw (Reply 11):
Yes time to brush up on EU 261/2004 which has absolute rights to re-routing by any air carrier in the event of cancellations from Gatwick.

Alas, unless and until a court rules that the right to a reroute includes one on any other carrier, you'll find airlines don't accept that they are obliged to reroute other than on their own flights. The fact that many airlines are willing to do so doesn't mean that even the helpful ones will do so under all circumstances. Ryanair and easyJet never reroute on other airlines, in fact they can't as they don't have the interline agreements in place to allow it. In all the years that EU 261/2004 has been around, nobody has ever got a judgement forcing them to reroute on another airline.
 
factsonly
Posts: 3316
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sun May 29, 2016 6:51 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 13):
Maybe they didn't understand, if you're going to start an new service with 20 year old 763s your going to have trouble.


May be someone could have told Icelandair this news as well, their B763 TF-ISN - a younger B767 than WestJet's - has suffered 3x technical snags in the first weeks of service.

TF-ISN - MSN 30586 l/n 808 - first delivered in 2000

Operators of this aircraft:

31/08/2000 - Air New Zealand ZK-NCO
12/09/2007 - Flyglobespan G-CEOD
31/08/2010 - Kenya Airways 5Y-KYW
08/08/2015 - Icelandair TF-ISN
 
richardw
Posts: 3168
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sun May 29, 2016 6:59 am

Quoting Andy33 (Reply 18):


Yes nobody has got a judgement because airline lawyers have never let a case go to court and risk losing, it's easier to tell the many to get lost.

lewroll got a payout from Jet2 because they didn't reroute him.

If my easyJet flight to Belfast is cancelled and the next flight is Ryanair, they just have to book me on Ryanair.



[Edited 2016-05-29 00:22:32]

[Edited 2016-05-29 00:28:13]
 
Andy33
Posts: 2570
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sun May 29, 2016 7:57 am

Quoting richardw (Reply 20):
If my easyJet flight to Belfast is cancelled and the next flight is Ryanair, they just have to book me on Ryanair.

That's your opinion, and it may well be what the framers of the legislation intended. It will not however be what actually happens on the day as far as these two airlines are concerned, they will offer you an alternative flight on their own services, or a full refund. If the cancellation is within 2 weeks of departure they will be obliged to follow the EC261/2004 compensation rules as well.

If you are confident in your belief that they have to go out and buy tickets on another airline, presumably using a company credit card as there is no interline agreement, do let us know what happens when you try it. Of course since both airlines follow a model of pricing to fill all the seats, there may very well be no seats available to be booked in the case of cancellations on the day. Certainly proving that there were would be difficult as in your example it would require the co-operation of Ryanair in telling you whether any empty seats on a departing flight were the result of no shows at the gate (only known 30 minutes before departure, in a different terminal) or genuinely unsold.

Now if your British Airways flight from LHR to Belfast is cancelled, they may well transfer you to Aer Lingus or vice versa, and they did this before the two airlines belonged to the same group. This is nothing whatever to do with EC261 and everything to do with their more traditional approach to customer service as IATA members.
 
richardw
Posts: 3168
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sun May 29, 2016 8:31 am

Yes Andy33 what should happen in theory and in practice are different things.

More passengers are becoming aware of EC261:2004 and we are seeing better responses from airlines, recently BA sent a B777 to NCE to assist.

I nearly booked a trip on WestJet from Gatwick a couple of weeks ago, the Toronto weather saved me from the possible inconvenience.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4676
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sun May 29, 2016 8:54 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 19):
May be someone could have told Icelandair this news as well, their B763 TF-ISN - a younger B767 than WestJet's - has suffered 3x technical snags in the first weeks of service.

TF-ISN - MSN 30586 l/n 808 - first delivered in 2000

Funny thing is that they just brought another 2x from NZ being 1997 builds! Both of which have had there fare share of tech problems over the past couple of years. Thankfully the 763 is now off AKL-HNL, which seemed to have a few to many turn backs over the past years.

NCK - 23/06/1997
NCL - 28/10/1997

Hopefully they don't fall for NCJ 1995, NCI 1994, NCG 1993
 
CF-CPI
Posts: 1448
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2000 12:54 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sun May 29, 2016 12:23 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
Three of the 4 763s are 25 years old, delivered to QF in 1991. The fourth is 22 years old. All are older than WestJet which started service in 1996 (ironically with 4 very well-used 737-200s which were 24 to 27 years old at the time, and all with at least half a dozen previous operators).

I'd be curious what the relative experience was with 25 year old 737s vs 25 year old 767s. Was the baby Boeing better behaved in WestJet's early days?
 
mwhcvt
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:01 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sun May 29, 2016 12:59 pm

A friend of mine is meant to be flying them today from LGW, see posted this morning that the flight has a 17 hour delay   not good
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7227
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sun May 29, 2016 1:40 pm

Looks like C-FOGJ has been stuck on the ground at YYZ since it arrived there 4-and-something hours late Friday night.

http://www.flightradar24.com/reg/c-fogj
 
LJ
Posts: 5519
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sun May 29, 2016 4:45 pm

Quoting richardw (Reply 22):
More passengers are becoming aware of EC261:2004 and we are seeing better responses from airlines, recently BA sent a B777 to NCE to assist.

Indeed, I wouldn't accept not getting a reasonable rebooking option. What they do with the pax who don't know exactly what they're entitled to is up to the airline, but no airline wants a coutcase or a passenger who complains to the authorities which may lead to fines or whatever the UK government has ultimate penalty for non-compliance. Anyway, the negative PR will ensure that your booking will go down and the compensation to the passenger has to be paid regardless.

Quoting mwhcvt (Reply 25):
A friend of mine is meant to be flying them today from LGW, see posted this morning that the flight has a 17 hour delay not good

At least he'll be getting EUR 600 unless there is a genuine extraordinary event (and most technical issues do not count). Will become an expensive day for WestJet.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Sun May 29, 2016 9:59 pm

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 24):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
Three of the 4 763s are 25 years old, delivered to QF in 1991. The fourth is 22 years old. All are older than WestJet which started service in 1996 (ironically with 4 very well-used 737-200s which were 24 to 27 years old at the time, and all with at least half a dozen previous operators).

I'd be curious what the relative experience was with 25 year old 737s vs 25 year old 767s. Was the baby Boeing better behaved in WestJet's early days?

You may recall that WestJet was grounded for about 2 weeks in September 1996, about 6 months after starting service. I think the grounding was due to problems with maintenance paperwork for their 4 elderly 737-200s.
 
MaxxFlyer
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:29 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 12:55 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 28):
You may recall that WestJet was grounded for about 2 weeks in September 1996, about 6 months after starting service. I think the grounding was due to problems with maintenance paperwork for their 4 elderly 737-200s.

That was 20 years ago. Why would you imply it's the same issue with the 763's?
 
mwhcvt
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:01 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 1:38 am

Quoting LJ (Reply 27):
At least he'll be getting EUR 600 unless there is a genuine extraordinary event (and most technical issues do not count). Will become an expensive day for WestJet.

This is true, however I think she was more concerned at entertaining 3 children aged something like 3-8 for the 17 delay in the airport  
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 6488
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 2:24 am

Quoting MaxxFlyer (Reply 29):
That was 20 years ago. Why would you imply it's the same issue with the 763's?

He wasn't. He was answering the question if WS had any maintenance issues during the introduction of the equally as old B737-200s. It would appear that this clerical issue was the only maintenance issue WS had 20 years ago.

Quoting LJ (Reply 27):
At least he'll be getting EUR 600 unless there is a genuine extraordinary event (and most technical issues do not count). Will become an expensive day for WestJet.

The whole B767 introduction is expensive for WS, but still far far cheaper and with far less risk than buying or leasing newer aircraft. Including having the B767 of Omni Air sitting standby in YYC. (Great looking airplane btw).

By this time next year, WS will know if widebody international operations gives the returns they were hoping. If they decide against it, the total outlay for the experiment will not be too onerous.
 
Beatyair
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:09 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 2:48 am

First of all, Qantss is very well know for how well it takes care of its planes. Secondly, I find it odd that Westjet has the 20+ year old planes, verses the Four that were delivered in 2000 and one more that was deliveried in 2001 to Qantas.
 
MaxxFlyer
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:29 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 3:10 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 31):
He wasn't. He was answering the question if WS had any maintenance issues during the introduction of the equally as old B737-200s. It would appear that this clerical issue was the only maintenance issue WS had 20 years ago.

Well, thanks for answering for someone else. I read it differently.
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 6488
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 3:38 am

Quoting MaxxFlyer (Reply 33):
I read it differently.

Apparently.

Quoting MaxxFlyer (Reply 33):
Well, thanks for answering for someone else.

You're welcome.

But more to the point, I remember the time well, as I was there ... as was Viscount724 ... in fact all of us Canadian aviation enthusiasts were watching WS closely during its infancy years. As we know, surviving the first year is crucial for a new airline.

In my own opinion, I thought Transport Canada's actions were unfair during such a vulnerable time. When they very quickly realized that there were no maintenance infractions, only maintenance record keeping infractions, grounding seemed a little harsh. But ... they survived it, and they will survive this.
 
YYZatcboy
Posts: 1201
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:15 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 3:40 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 34):
n my own opinion, I thought Transport Canada's actions were unfair during such a vulnerable time. When they very quickly realized that there were no maintenance infractions, only maintenance record keeping infractions, grounding seemed a little harsh. But ... they survived it, and they will survive this.

WS grounded themselves. TC did not ground them.
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 6488
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 3:48 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 35):
WS grounded themselves. TC did not ground them.

Yes, I do remember that. To me, and only my opinion, it looked like bullying by TC.

But in reality, TC very rarely "grounds" an airline. Normally, they place a set of conditions in their "show cause" claim that can not be met. When these conditions are not met, the airline must shut down or risk being fined.
 
cgagn
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2003 5:30 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 5:48 am

Tonight's WS1 from YYC to LGW had an issue and Omni was towed over from Apron 2 and departed about 2.5 hours late. I assume Omni must have crew on standby in London as well as Calgary for the last minute subs. Does anyone know if Westjet have plans to keep Omni longer than the original 1 month?

C-GAGN
 
LJ
Posts: 5519
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 7:35 am

Quoting mwhcvt (Reply 30):
This is true, however I think she was more concerned at entertaining 3 children aged something like 3-8 for the 17 delay in the airport

I understand, but I would reckon that she's gotten the required care as well (though I would still not be in such a situation).

Quoting longhauler (Reply 31):
The whole B767 introduction is expensive for WS, but still far far cheaper and with far less risk than buying or leasing newer aircraft. Including having the B767 of Omni Air sitting standby in YYC. (Great looking airplane btw).

By this time next year, WS will know if widebody international operations gives the returns they were hoping. If they decide against it, the total outlay for the experiment will not be too onerous.

Yes, but the goodwill they're losing by these delays isn't going to help. If these kind of delays persist, it's only a matter of time before some UK tabloid is going to run a story. Moreover, paying the compensation on a regular basis will not improve your business case. Fortunately not 100% of the pax will ask for their money (I doubt many Canadians know that they're entitled to the compensation under 261 and wouldn't be surprised if WS "forgets" to notify its passengers rights), but having a 767 on standby plus still having these delays is not going well. The only ones benefiting from this are the Omnis and Titans of this world.

Quoting cgagn (Reply 37):
I assume Omni must have crew on standby in London as well as Calgary for the last minute subs.

That would be very expensive. Either you fly them in, or delay the flight (probably the latter).
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1807
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 3:48 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 38):


Quoting cgagn (Reply 37):
I assume Omni must have crew on standby in London as well as Calgary for the last minute subs.

That would be very expensive. Either you fly them in, or delay the flight (probably the latter).

Airplane sits in YYC on standby and there are crew in YYC and LGW. When it is used it doesn't sit in LGW at all, it turns and operates back to Canada right away. It operated YYC-LGW last night and is now on the way to YVR.
 
User avatar
speedbird707
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:20 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 4:51 pm

This situation seems to also mirror Westjet's introduction of the Dash 8 Encore service...for the first little while they had an atrocious on time record, likely due to too many flight segments and too few planes to cover...if one was delayed or had technical issues the whole schedule was messed up...perhaps this is similar with 763...to many flights being pushed with too few planes..at least initially...
 
sixtyseven
Posts: 830
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 5:08 pm

Where is Jimbo in all of this? Probably trying to twist this into an anti AC thread.

Welcome to the dance West Jet.
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1807
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 6:58 pm

Quoting speedbird707 (Reply 40):

This situation seems to also mirror Westjet's introduction of the Dash 8 Encore service...for the first little while they had an atrocious on time record, likely due to too many flight segments and too few planes to cover...if one was delayed or had technical issues the whole schedule was messed up...perhaps this is similar with 763...to many flights being pushed with too few planes..at least initially...


And it's not a unique situation to WS. Any airline introducing new aircraft and routes has problems like these...
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7227
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 9:28 pm

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 42):
Any airline introducing new aircraft and routes has problems like these...

Like Norwegian and the brand new Dreamliner.
 
B747forever
Posts: 13976
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 9:35 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 43):
Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 42):
Any airline introducing new aircraft and routes has problems like these...

Like Norwegian and the brand new Dreamliner.

DYs introduction of the 787 came immediately into mind. Their first couple of months were really bad with long delays often spanning more than 24hrs. Nowadays with a expanded 787 fleet and more experience you rarely hear about such delays.
 
MaxxFlyer
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:29 pm

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 9:50 pm

I assume these were the same 763's WS used to Hawaii this past winter. Did they have similar dispatch problems?
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1807
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 10:17 pm

Quoting MaxxFlyer (Reply 45):

I assume these were the same 763's WS used to Hawaii this past winter. Did they have similar dispatch problems?


Yes there were some issues but they could be easily replaced with a couple B738s or pax moved though YVR.

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 43):
Like Norwegian and the brand new Dreamliner.

And AC with the Airbus, E175/190s and B787s. Just using AC as an example not because it's a competitor...
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 6488
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Mon May 30, 2016 11:33 pm

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 46):
And AC with the Airbus, E175/190s and B787s. Just using AC as an example not because it's a competitor...

AC has introduced many a new type to its fleet (and to the world) over the last ~80 years, and they have learned a thing or two.

While the A320 and B787s were a pain on introduction, they didn't get to the passenger level that often. They kept a lot of B727s and B767s respectively, on standby so that the biggest inconvenience was the aircraft type. Today, they are lucky ... as with keeping the extra B767s and A330s, they are now using them for uplift which wasn't in the plan when the B787 was ordered.

The E175/E190 is a different story as it was blazing new routes, and the aircraft for which it was to replace ... the DC-9, B737 and F28 ... had long since been retired! They did keep a few A319s longer than planned which picked up some of the slack.

It looks like WS has a handle on this. Keeping Omni on standby is expensive, but it shows a commitment to service. It is a very steep learning curve and things will settle down.

A buddy of mine is an AC B767 AME in YYZ and they get calls from WS all the time. (Competition doesn't usually get to the hangar floor level). They help when they can, but my buddy laughed, because he remembered the same issues when AC first got the B767!
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1807
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Tue May 31, 2016 12:10 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 47):

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 46):
And AC with the Airbus, E175/190s and B787s. Just using AC as an example not because it's a competitor...

AC has introduced many a new type to its fleet (and to the world) over the last ~80 years, and they have learned a thing or two.

While the A320 and B787s were a pain on introduction, they didn't get to the passenger level that often. They kept a lot of B727s and B767s respectively, on standby so that the biggest inconvenience was the aircraft type. Today, they are lucky ... as with keeping the extra B767s and A330s, they are now using them for uplift which wasn't in the plan when the B787 was ordered.

The E175/E190 is a different story as it was blazing new routes, and the aircraft for which it was to replace ... the DC-9, B737 and F28 ... had long since been retired! They did keep a few A319s longer than planned which picked up some of the slack.

It looks like WS has a handle on this. Keeping Omni on standby is expensive, but it shows a commitment to service. It is a very steep learning curve and things will settle down.

A buddy of mine is an AC B767 AME in YYZ and they get calls from WS all the time. (Competition doesn't usually get to the hangar floor level). They help when they can, but my buddy laughed, because he remembered the same issues when AC first got the B767!

Exactly, thanks Longhauler...
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7227
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: Westjet Gatwick Cancellations

Tue May 31, 2016 12:33 am

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 46):
Just using AC as an example not because it's a competitor...

Of course. I used Nowergian because it's closer to WS situation than AC, entering a new market wit a new type and not a lot of experience on it.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 47):
Keeping Omni on standby is expensive, but it shows a commitment to service.

Indeed.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 47):
my buddy laughed, because he remembered the same issues when AC first got the B767!

Wow, 30+ years later...

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos