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trex8
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:28 pm

Is the DN for Delta Northwest???
 
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res77W
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:07 pm

blue100 wrote:
I apologize if this was mentioned elsewhere but does anyone know what the reg will be for MSN 115 (DLs first a350)? I thought I had read that they were going to use N501DN but I can't find a reference to that anywhere.


GeminiJets is also releasing a Delta A350 model with the reg N501DN.


-Rowen
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:08 pm

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
mxaxai
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:16 pm

"Aircraft Campus" sounds like some sort of educational program. Do you happen to know what kind of flight testing they want to do?
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:26 pm

MSN 67 VN #6 is heading home today.

Airbus A350 -941 67 VN-A891 Vietnam Airlines delivery 29dec16 TLS-HAN ex F-WZFS
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
trex8
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:37 pm

mxaxai wrote:
"Aircraft Campus" sounds like some sort of educational program. Do you happen to know what kind of flight testing they want to do?


low altitude ones without any engines!! :rotfl:
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:52 pm

A delivery flight plan for MSN 79 JJ #7 has been filled.

Airbus A350 -941 79 PR-XTG Latam Brazil delivery 29dec16 TLS-CNF ex F-WZNI
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:55 pm

MSN 73 CI #4 is heading home tonight.

Airbus A350 -941 73 B-18905 China Airlines delivery 30dec16 TLS-TPE ex F-WZNB
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
memphiX
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:41 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
MSN 73 CI #4 is heading home tonight.

Airbus A350 -941 73 B-18905 China Airlines delivery 30dec16 TLS-TPE ex F-WZNB


Does it mean that we are at 46 + 1 for this year?
 
StTim
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:44 pm

two more I believe have their final registrations so are probably "delivered" - which just leaves the second AerCap one for Airbus to get to 49 frames for the year. Quite a good acheivement given the early issues.
 
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Heavierthanair
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:13 am

G'day

B-LRM CX A350 # 10 just left its nest :smile:

https://www.flightradar24.com/CPA3336/c0a4ed1

Cheers

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:30 am

MSN 75 CX #10 and MSN 81 SQ #10 will be heading home today.

Airbus A350 -941 75 B-LRM Cathay Pacific delivery 31dec16 TLS-HKG ex F-WZND


Airbus A350 -941 81 9V-SMJ Singapore Airlines delivery 31dec16 TLS-SIN ex F-WZNK
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
ACATROYAL
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Will Airbus reach their 350 Delivery goal of 50 by the end of today

Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:37 pm

Airbus had a goal of 50 - 350 deliveries for 2016, so far they have delivered 47...Does anyone think they will hit 50??
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:47 pm

With MSN 52 and 55 included Airbus arrived at 49 deliveries for the year.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
rbrunner
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:58 pm

Which is - IMO - very good, given the circumstances. Well done, Airbus!

And Happy New Year, everybody!!!!!!
 
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Richard28
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:03 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
With MSN 52 and 55 included Airbus arrived at 49 deliveries for the year.


whilst not quite there, a very good result for Airbus, especially considering where they were only a couple of months ago.

Will be interesting to see if this momentum is continued in 2017!
 
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PM
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:21 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
With MSN 52 and 55 included Airbus arrived at 49 deliveries for the year.

Will these be included in the 2016 deliveries total? Maybe I missed it but I didn't see any official announcement of delivery.
 
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speedbored
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:26 pm

Richard28 wrote:
whilst not quite there

They could always "fudge it" to 50 by including "delivery" of the first 350-1000 to their flight test department :)
 
rbrunner
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:43 pm

speedbored wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
whilst not quite there

They could always "fudge it" to 50 by including "delivery" of the first 350-1000 to their flight test department :)

Yes, I suppose they could!
 
StTim
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:50 pm

I don't think they need to fudge it. 49 is a good achievement. A slight miss but still damned good.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:52 pm

More importantly Airbus for the first time delivered more than 100 airplanes in December, and beat their delivery guidance of 650 planes by a large margin. Investors should be happy.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
StTim
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:15 pm

That is good for them indeed. Nice also there are a couple of frames already on the flightline. So hopefully some deliveries in January.
 
Aircellist
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:20 pm

That means almost as many A350 deliveries in just december as in the whole of 2015. Impressive.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
bobdino
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Re: Will Airbus reach their 350 Delivery goal of 50 by the end of today

Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:35 pm

ACATROYAL wrote:
Airbus had a goal of 50 - 350 deliveries for 2016...


This may be somewhat nitpicking, but Airbus set a target of "at least 50".

So, Airbus didn't get to within 2% (1 delivery) of their target; they missed the lower bound of the range they were advertising publicly by 2%. Because Airbus are not stupid, their internal target would have been somewhat higher than the target they talk about publicly, and so to my eyes this is quite a significant delivery miss. Add to that the December rush (13 of 47 known deliveries) and it's a production ramp-up that isn't going quite as well as expected.

It's not the end of the world, but it does bode a tricky 2017.
 
itisi
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Re: Will Airbus reach their 350 Delivery goal of 50 by the end of today

Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:59 pm

bobdino wrote:
ACATROYAL wrote:
Airbus had a goal of 50 - 350 deliveries for 2016...


This may be somewhat nitpicking, but Airbus set a target of "at least 50".

So, Airbus didn't get to within 2% (1 delivery) of their target; they missed the lower bound of the range they were advertising publicly by 2%. Because Airbus are not stupid, their internal target would have been somewhat higher than the target they talk about publicly, and so to my eyes this is quite a significant delivery miss. Add to that the December rush (13 of 47 known deliveries) and it's a production ramp-up that isn't going quite as well as expected.

It's not the end of the world, but it does bode a tricky 2017.


Nitpicking.... correct :D
737-300/400/500 ... are NOT classics :)
 
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Balerit
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:00 am

What is their target for 2017?
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
lvs
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:40 am

Balerit wrote:
What is their target for 2017?

80
 
WIederling
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:01 pm

rbrunner wrote:
speedbored wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
whilst not quite there

They could always "fudge it" to 50 by including "delivery" of the first 350-1000 to their flight test department :)

Yes, I suppose they could!


Next thing we see is Boeing moving their 777 "blank rounds" through the FAL to a blank customer
and then counting those as successful deliveries? :-)

Slippery slope, that.
Murphy is an optimist
 
SteinarN
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:10 pm

WIederling wrote:
rbrunner wrote:
speedbored wrote:
They could always "fudge it" to 50 by including "delivery" of the first 350-1000 to their flight test department :)

Yes, I suppose they could!


Next thing we see is Boeing moving their 777 "blank rounds" through the FAL to a blank customer
and then counting those as successful deliveries? :-)

Slippery slope, that.


Hahahaha :lol:
 
Pattafix
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:14 pm

StTim wrote:
I don't think they need to fudge it. 49 is a good achievement. A slight miss but still damned good.


I would not be surprised if the officially announced number of deliveries in 2016 would be 50 or above. We have to remember that what we are counting here are delivery flights. Airbus internally (and on the cash side) treats the Transfer of Title as the delivery date which usually takes place some days before the actual delivery flight.
 
StTim
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:20 pm

Pattafix wrote:
StTim wrote:
I don't think they need to fudge it. 49 is a good achievement. A slight miss but still damned good.


I would not be surprised if the officially announced number of deliveries in 2016 would be 50 or above. We have to remember that what we are counting here are delivery flights. Airbus internally (and on the cash side) treats the Transfer of Title as the delivery date which usually takes place some days before the actual delivery flight.



It is a minimum 47 and a maximum 49. No other frames waiting at the Delivery Centre.
 
Blotto
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Re: Will Airbus reach their 350 Delivery goal of 50 by the end of today

Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:18 pm

bobdino wrote:
ACATROYAL wrote:
Airbus had a goal of 50 - 350 deliveries for 2016...


This may be somewhat nitpicking, but Airbus set a target of "at least 50".

So, Airbus didn't get to within 2% (1 delivery) of their target; they missed the lower bound of the range they were advertising publicly by 2%. Because Airbus are not stupid, their internal target would have been somewhat higher than the target they talk about publicly, and so to my eyes this is quite a significant delivery miss. Add to that the December rush (13 of 47 known deliveries) and it's a production ramp-up that isn't going quite as well as expected.

It's not the end of the world, but it does bode a tricky 2017.


It's not nitpicking but just correct. I also feel that 50 was their absolute minimum which they were sure to achieve and thus it was announced as a hard number.
Airbus missed on both A350 targets they announced in January.
 
Strato2
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Re: Will Airbus reach their 350 Delivery goal of 50 by the end of today

Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:38 pm

Blotto wrote:
Airbus missed on both A350 targets they announced in January.


By a whopping two percent. :sarcastic:
 
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moo
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Re: Will Airbus reach their 350 Delivery goal of 50 by the end of today

Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:47 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Blotto wrote:
Airbus missed on both A350 targets they announced in January.


By a whopping two percent. :sarcastic:


He's going to argue in response that they missed it by anything approaching 100%, bearing in mind the "at least" modifier which gives claim to pretty much any number north of 50 that you want to use in your argument...
 
WIederling
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Re: Will Airbus reach their 350 Delivery goal of 50 by the end of today

Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:11 pm

moo wrote:
Strato2 wrote:
Blotto wrote:
Airbus missed on both A350 targets they announced in January.


By a whopping two percent. :sarcastic:


He's going to argue in response that they missed it by anything approaching 100%, bearing in mind the "at least" modifier which gives claim to pretty much any number north of 50 that you want to use in your argument...


faulty math.
Magnitude of a miss is the distance to the nearest expected value.
( If the ball in a soccer game goes just outside the goal across the line
you don't argue that it missed by 2m ( or even 4m ) It missed by .2 m

The target window is "50 or more" this year.
They missed it by 2% if they deliver 49 this year.

The rest is convolutions for a polarizing statement. "whataboutism" comes to mind and PippiLongStockings Math.

( in parallel I could make a case for Boeing being years behind on their 787 delivery schedule.)
Murphy is an optimist
 
Blotto
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Re: Will Airbus reach their 350 Delivery goal of 50 by the end of today

Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:14 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Blotto wrote:
Airbus missed on both A350 targets they announced in January.


By a whopping two percent. :sarcastic:


The magnitude of "whopping" of course depends on your expected value. Of course you can argue that one missing delivery is not much and you would be totally correct.
However, I'd like to add two thoughts to it:
1. In communication to investors, Airbus would not use a goal that matches the expected value of their operations. Assume the number of deliveries follows a Gaussian distribution, I'd asssume they would communicate a target number beyond 1 sigma deviation to get at least 75% certainty. So when I look at the number of deliveries, I like it better to compare it against the expected value. Which I know is a bit fishy given the lack of information. If you don't like it that's fine.
2. If I look at the time of the day I got emails from the Airbus guys in the last months, I know that they worked as hard as anyone could. I can only assume the pressure they've been under and I have the most respect what they've done. But it will come at the expense of another slow start into the year. I personally don't like the focus on the fiscal year and would always vote for a healthy workload throughout the year. Not only for the folks in Toulouse but also for all colleagues involved at the customers.

That's why for me, 49 is not as near to success as it might sound.
 
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Finn350
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:15 pm

Apparently there are some posters that think that Airbus should have changed their financial guidance from "at least 50 deliveries" to "at least 40 deliveries" to better reflect their performance of 49 deliveries.
 
WIederling
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:53 pm

Finn350 wrote:
Apparently there are some posters that think that Airbus should have changed their financial guidance from "at least 50 deliveries" to "at least 40 deliveries" to better reflect their performance of 49 deliveries.


The same posters probably and at the time made a case of a 49 Piece Dreamliner Lawn Darts Installation as nigh perfect achievement in scope of previously announced 787 deliveries. :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
MEA-707
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:57 pm

People complaining about the 'low' delivery number must realize that Airbus would easily have made 50 if SriLankan and Qatar took delivery of the aircraft they were supposed to have by now.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
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ipper
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:13 am

The reality is that Airbus did a great job of getting so many delivered by the end of the year. However Blotto is correct that the cost of this accomplishment was not insignificant, and will impact the first quarter (or more) of 2017. Boeing's experience was identical in the ramp up of the 787, but they have now gotten the pace nicely regulated, to the point that the last one in 2016 was delivered before Christmas, and there were very few test flights during the holidays. Airbus needs to get there, not only with the 350 but with the entire stable. I'm pretty sure management sees the status quo of 4th Quarter craziness as unacceptable.
 
bobdino
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:26 am

WIederling wrote:
Finn350 wrote:
Apparently there are some posters that think that Airbus should have changed their financial guidance from "at least 50 deliveries" to "at least 40 deliveries" to better reflect their performance of 49 deliveries.


The same posters probably and at the time made a case of a 49 Piece Dreamliner Lawn Darts Installation as nigh perfect achievement in scope of previously announced 787 deliveries. :-)



Why the ad hominem attacks? They add nothing to the thread and discourage folks from participating.
 
WIederling
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:45 am

bobdino wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Finn350 wrote:
Apparently there are some posters that think that Airbus should have changed their financial guidance from "at least 50 deliveries" to "at least 40 deliveries" to better reflect their performance of 49 deliveries.


The same posters probably and at the time made a case of a 49 Piece Dreamliner Lawn Darts Installation as nigh perfect achievement in scope of previously announced 787 deliveries. :-)



Why the ad hominem attacks?

?
It is a general statement on observed poster behaviour.
pronounced in conjuction with splitting hairs
and sophist statements that try to redefine "miss".

They add nothing to the thread and discourage folks from participating.


~= disrupting?
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Finn350
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:48 am

bobdino wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Finn350 wrote:
Apparently there are some posters that think that Airbus should have changed their financial guidance from "at least 50 deliveries" to "at least 40 deliveries" to better reflect their performance of 49 deliveries.


The same posters probably and at the time made a case of a 49 Piece Dreamliner Lawn Darts Installation as nigh perfect achievement in scope of previously announced 787 deliveries. :-)



Why the ad hominem attacks? They add nothing to the thread and discourage folks from participating.


In case the question was directed to me, for sake of clarity, I will rephrase:

Airbus financial guidance has been targeting "at least 50 deliveries". There would be no point of changing the financial guidance to targeting "at least 40 deliveries", when they actually reached 49 deliveries. No matter what their internal target at the beginning of the year was, the publicly announced guidance is what matters for a publicly traded company.
 
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keesje
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:51 am

wrong..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
audidudi
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:21 pm

Finn350 wrote:
bobdino wrote:
WIederling wrote:

The same posters probably and at the time made a case of a 49 Piece Dreamliner Lawn Darts Installation as nigh perfect achievement in scope of previously announced 787 deliveries. :-)



Why the ad hominem attacks? They add nothing to the thread and discourage folks from participating.


In case the question was directed to me, for sake of clarity, I will rephrase:

Airbus financial guidance has been targeting "at least 50 deliveries". There would be no point of changing the financial guidance to targeting "at least 40 deliveries", when they actually reached 49 deliveries. No matter what their internal target at the beginning of the year was, the publicly announced guidance is what matters for a publicly traded company.

Read reply #1639 above! Time to move on folks. 48, 49 or 50 deliveries, who really cares except the nitpickers on here who have nothing better to do than to beat this to death! Airbus did a great job in 2016, and the A350 is a wonderful aircraft which will hopefully reap all the deserved rewards for Airbus going forward!
 
Bricktop
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:00 pm

Close, but no cigar. :smile:

Seriously, the nitpicking is tedious to say the least. Almost as tedious as the inevitable "But Boeing.." comments.
It's a great plane and if someone bitched at me for delivering 49 instead of 50, they'd get a well-deserved :roll: .
 
mjoelnir
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:44 pm

ipper wrote:
The reality is that Airbus did a great job of getting so many delivered by the end of the year. However Blotto is correct that the cost of this accomplishment was not insignificant, and will impact the first quarter (or more) of 2017. Boeing's experience was identical in the ramp up of the 787, but they have now gotten the pace nicely regulated, to the point that the last one in 2016 was delivered before Christmas, and there were very few test flights during the holidays. Airbus needs to get there, not only with the 350 but with the entire stable. I'm pretty sure management sees the status quo of 4th Quarter craziness as unacceptable.


Perhaps Boeing should have delivered some 787 after Xmas. The count stands at 137 frames in 2016, That is 5 frames short of having a 12 frames per month production rate.
 
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ipper
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:02 pm

I believe they hit their guidance, but the point is that they have managed to establish control over the pace of deliveries over the calendar year to the point that there is not a need to go crazy in the 4th quarter. This is an accomplishment regardless of how you view Boeing or the 787 program. Certainly Boeing has plenty of issues to address, but they've seen success on this particular front. It's something that Airbus has struggled with, and not just the 350 program. I doubt anyone at Airbus would call the current situation on that particular front ideal. I'm sure it is not being ignored, which means they should make progress this year.
 
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ipper
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:03 pm

By the way, I think 137 is 7 shy of 12 per month, but I'm not 100% positive on that. :)
 
OldAeroGuy
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:11 pm

Is that an English sparrow year or a European swallow year?

And how many Tahitian coconuts does the average A359 hold?
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis

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