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sv11
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Mon May 30, 2016 7:33 pm

I am sure the airlines are regretting the same. Just flew ewr to SFO on UA 757, all 10 flights per day on this route uses the 757. Guess the 737 can't do it.

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hOMSaR
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Mon May 30, 2016 7:43 pm

Quoting sv11 (Reply 50):
I am sure the airlines are regretting the same. Just flew ewr to SFO on UA 757, all 10 flights per day on this route uses the 757. Guess the 737 can't do it.

The 737 can do the route perfectly fine. UA uses the 757 on EWR-SFO because, ever since they discontined their JFK operation, the only fly planes with flat-bed business class on the EWR-SFO transcon, and UA has no flat-bed configured 737s. UA will only fly either their ps configured 757s, international 757s (former CO aircraft), or widebodies on that route now.
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scbriml
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Mon May 30, 2016 8:24 pm

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 24):
If he likes the 57 that much, he should look at buying more, waiting for Boeing to come up with something or buy an A321.

There are plenty of 757s in storage. More than enough for anyone who needs/wants to operate them.
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Flighty
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Mon May 30, 2016 9:04 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 23):
The 757 is a narrowbody with widebody maintenance characteristics. Engines that cost twice what a narrowbody engine does per takeoff.

Yes. The costs per departure of 757 are just a crazy amount higher than a 737. As is takeoff fuel burn IIRC. The airlines drew down their fleets to a minimum already, with total retirement just over the horizon (late 2020s?).

Quoting CO953 (Reply 45):
That has to be chalked up as a long-term loss for Boeing (and a big win for Airbus), any way you slice it.

Boeing made the decision to stick with the 737. It is sub-optimal in some ways, but a cheap and low-risk solution. And it can cover many supposed 757 missions in its own right. The 738 in particular is so versatile. It can carry 150 people a hell of a long way. But one thing the 737 is not, is the finest narrow body flagship available. So, the backbone of AA is going to be A321s, with their giant fleet of 738s contributing.
 
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Mon May 30, 2016 9:33 pm

Years back it would have been "They have to bring the 727 back & make the 723 series
 
phlwok
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Mon May 30, 2016 9:57 pm

Quoting hoMsaR (Reply 35):
The 737-900/900ER have had 433 orders, not the greatest numbers, but not terrible numbers for a subvariant either.

And for a now-meaningless statistic: this means that the 739 series has thus far outsold the 753 (55 deliveries) by ... wait for it ... 7.87 times. This stat is good until Boeing sells more 739s  
 
SXDFC
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Mon May 30, 2016 10:05 pm

These 757 threads are a-nets version of "The Walking Dead." Just like the zombies in the tv show, you can shoot one of them, but more keep coming..
 
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77west
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Mon May 30, 2016 10:09 pm

What we should really be asking is, yes, they may regret it, no, they cant bring it back, so - where to from this point?
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ZKNCL
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Mon May 30, 2016 10:29 pm

Quoting nikeherc (Reply 19):
From a guy that runs a small airline that uses 757s. Get a quote from Willy Walsh, Ed Bastian, Doug Parker, or some other CEO of similar stature, and I'll take you seriously. The fact that there are a few small airlines that wish the 757 was in production does not create a large enough market to justify continued production.

Does it change the fact that he still operates 757's? If an airline operates at least ONE, it is enough to justify the economics of the aircraft and form a judgement about said aircraft. Since when did quantity mean more relevant? your logic of only looking at the biggest carriers is flawed.

Does one have to operate 100+ of the type to be able to voice their own opinion?

Also might I add that your point has nothing to do with my original point which is JUST for shutting down people who complain for the sake of complaining. The irony that you complain for the sake of starting an argument in response to me only strengthens my point.
 
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novak500
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Mon May 30, 2016 10:51 pm

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 15):
When will NWA retire their DC-9's

Maybe someone will start a "Why did NWA retire their DC-9's when they did?" thread   
 
Gasman
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Mon May 30, 2016 11:00 pm

Quoting novak500 (Reply 59):
Maybe someone will start a "Why did NWA retire their DC-9's when they did?" thread

....... a thread I will only contribute to once I've stopped seeing my psychologist over the the end of the DC-8.
 
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kanban
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 12:08 am

When the new Boeing single aisle comes out and the A321 goes out of production, will we have to endure "Airbus missed the boat cancelling the A321" threads??

some people have to hang on to the past in spite of the facts available when the decision was made.. Now I wonder if the B-377 Strato-cruiser tooling is still languishing around somewhere????
 
Gasman
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 12:29 am

Quoting kanban (Reply 61):
When the new Boeing single aisle comes out and the A321 goes out of production, will we have to endure "Airbus missed the boat cancelling the A321" threads??

Yes.

Quoting kanban (Reply 61):
some people have to hang on to the past in spite of the facts available when the decision was made..

They do, but that doesn't mean the OP is wrong. It is true the 757 is enjoying something of a renaissance, and it is far from inconceivable that Boeing do regret their decision, and that they could have made a different one with a different interpretation of the facts available.
 
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 12:54 am

Quoting kanban (Reply 61):
When the new Boeing single aisle comes out and the A321 goes out of production, will we have to endure "Airbus missed the boat cancelling the A321" threads??

Funny you don't see a lot of "Did Airbus miss the boat by canceling the A340-300" Threads.

EDIT: Would anybody have an objection if I started a, "Did Douglas miss the boat by canceling the DC-4" thread?

[Edited 2016-05-30 17:56:08]
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Gasman
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 1:11 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 63):
Funny you don't see a lot of "Did Airbus miss the boat by canceling the A340-300" Threads.

That's because the 343 is a dog, whereas the 757 isn't - and wasn't when it was cancelled.

The OP asks a reasonable question. But in the absence of a Boeing exec stating "with the information we had at the time, we should've made a different decision on the 757" it's one we can never know the answer to.
 
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 1:16 am

From a passenger standpoint, I'd think the A310 would be a superior passenger experience than the 757. Maybe Airbus should build an A310 neo?
 
glbltrvlr
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 1:24 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 48):
What I find humorous about these threads is how there is almost always someone who posts about "how much roomier the interior of the 757 was than a 737". Patently false, of course, since all 707, 727, 737, and 757 share the same cabin width and height and vary only by length as can be verified via the Boeing website.

Agreed. I don't see what the fascination is with the 757 other that is has some nice performance numbers. The 767 on the other hand is probably the best North Atlantic aircraft for coach passengers. For that reason, that's the frame everyone wants, but will never happen again.
 
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 1:57 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
95% of the primary mission of the 757 can be done by A321 and 737Max9.

Yeah, maybe they "could" be flown with either, but the A321 (both ceo and neo) is dominating sales of new aircraft in that market sector. Not many airlines wanted the 737-900(ER) and not many want the -9 MAX. It's difficult to see how this isn't a problem for Boeing. I doubt many are impressed by the proposed "737-10 MAX". It took a while but McDD management seems to at last be killing off Boeing. And in the exact same way it killed off McDD at that - with endless iterations, increasingly unable to compete, of antiquated base models.
 
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 2:34 am

Quoting klm672 (Reply 4):
Here we go again.............

Ya know...I saw this on Yahoo news feed a few days ago and decided NOT to post it because this was just going to get the 757 lovers all riled up again.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
alyusuph
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 4:55 am

Quoting na (Reply 2):
Boeing made the 787 bigger than the predecessor 767

True, I think a true 767-200 replacement was supposed to be a 9 abreast 787 but at the same fuselage length with the original 767-200
I am not an Airbus or Boeing fan, just an aircraft fan
 
simjim
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 5:25 am

Please bear with me on this one:

Does anyone know, if the LEAP1-A, can fit under a KC-135 (717-148)?

If it's possible and requires little modification to the wing of the KC-135, then I think this just might be the 737 MAX10.
 
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zkojq
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 5:47 am

If your business model is dependant on an ageing product that hasn't been directly superseded by the manufacturer, it's probably time for a new business model.  
First to fly the 787-9
 
BestWestern
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 5:47 am

Well they put CFM56's on the DC-8..... So never say never.
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Max Q
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 5:49 am

There is absolutely no question that this was one of, it not the worst mistake Boeing has made with commercial jet transport production.



All you have to do is look to the 757's big brother the 767 to see the value of perseverance.


All it took was for Boeing to wait out the market throughout a temporary slump and an NG 757 would have been a tremendous hit.


The 'long thin TATL' markets pioneered by Continental on this fine Aircraft were just being recognized for the invaluable niche they occupied and that could have been expanded on.


An improved Aircraft with a 4500-5000 NM range would still be selling today, giving Boeing no issues at all with the 321N, it would simple be eclipsed in capability, saving them the massively expensive problem of having to respond now.



Keeping the 757 line open would have been far cheaper and would have allowed them to concentrate their resources on what Boeing needs the most, a clean sheet replacement for their '60's design 737.
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seahawk
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 5:55 am

But Boeing was trying to sell a 757-200X in the late 1990ies and early 2000s but no airline wanted it. This was designed to fly over 5000nm on long thin routes.

[Edited 2016-05-30 23:09:06]
 
BestWestern
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 6:01 am

Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 6:12 am

Quoting na (Reply 2):
They made the 777 so big that it endangered the flagship 747, certainly also something not originally envisaged.

That's not true at all. They definitely envisioned growth into the model, especially after the shrink was nixed.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
but this was an added dividend never envisioned when Boeing designed it,

Based on what?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
Oh for effs sake. Stop trying to make the 757 happen.

  
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 6:30 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 74):
But Boeing was trying to sell a 757-200X in the late 1990ies and early 2000s but no airline wanted it. The is was designed to fly over 5000nm on long thin routes.

Boeing sold:

in 1995 13
in 1996 59
in 1997 44
in 1998 50
in 1999 18
in 2000 43
in 2001 37
in 2002 0
in 2003 7

in 2003 the 757 program was cancelled and some orders still to be delivered in the future cancelled. The main reason seems to be a order cancellation by Continental regarding 757-300. Canceled orders are not shown .

Orders for the 767 in the same years:

in 1995 22
in 1996 43
in 1997 79
in 1998 38
in 1999 30
in 2000 9
in 2001 40
in 2002 8
in 2003 10

The 757 was cancelled, the 767 not. Orders cancelled are not listed.
 
Andy33
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 6:35 am

Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 66):
The 767 on the other hand is probably the best North Atlantic aircraft for coach passengers. For that reason, that's the frame everyone wants, but will never happen again.

And yet Boeing would willingly take an order for a new-build passenger 767 tomorrow so it could easily happen again, but no passenger orders have been placed for several years. Obviously those airlines that agree with your view must have enough 767s already, and most airlines simply don't agree at all and order 787s, 777s, A330s and A350s.

Yes, a 767 can only go 8-across in Y, but there's no law that says you have to go 9-across in 787s or 10-across in 777s.
If the public actually valued the space more than the fares they'd be boycotting flights which have these tight configurations, but they aren't, are they?
 
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Ty134A
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 8:34 am

what i honestly don't understand is the rather unsuccessful b757-300. this plane has a really low casm, offers the same seats as a b767-300 (roughly) with less but still moderate range. why did it not sell??? i understand that loading and unloading, boarding and deboarding takes longer than on a 737-700, but still... i can think of tons of inner EU routs on which a b757-300 can be filled, TK flys the A330-300 to the EU, often carrying no cargo at all, this would be perfect for a b757-300.

so what was the reason for it not being that successful???
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L0VE2FLY
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 9:25 am

Quoting Ty134A (Reply 79):

The 757 in general wasn't popular outside the US anyway, it's basically the opposite of the 77W which did extremely well all over the world except in her country of origin!
 
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Ty134A
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 9:30 am

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 80):
The 757 in general wasn't popular outside the US anyway, it's basically the opposite of the 77W which did extremely well all over the world except in her country of origin!

which doesn't explain why it was not bought! the economics are clearly in favor of the b757-300, but not the sales figures. the 77W offers great economics and sales reflect that.

i can not imagine that it is only the turn around times limiting sales for a single aisle 270 seater. what is it airlines don't like about the B757-300?
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hilram
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 9:38 am

Quoting Andy33 (Reply 78):
Yes, a 767 can only go 8-across in Y, but there's no law that says you have to go 9-across in 787s or 10-across in 777s.

Would not 8-across in a 767 result in very very narrow seats? I read in one of these MoM threads that a carving out of the sidewalls, plus lowering the floor a little, would be necessary for 8-across.
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Andy33
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 9:57 am

Quoting hilram (Reply 82):
Would not 8-across in a 767 result in very very narrow seats? I read in one of these MoM threads that a carving out of the sidewalls, plus lowering the floor a little, would be necessary for 8-across.


Yes, everything you say here is correct. I certainly wouldn't want to travel in a plane like that, but then I'm not that keen on the 9-across 787 either. I've never tried a 10-across 777 but many posters have decried it.
I have no objections to the usual 7-across 767s, or 9-across 777s.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 10:06 am

Quoting Ty134A (Reply 79):
what i honestly don't understand is the rather unsuccessful b757-300. this plane has a really low casm, offers the same seats as a b767-300 (roughly) with less but still moderate range. why did it not sell??? i understand that loading and unloading, boarding and deboarding takes longer than on a 737-700, but still... i can think of tons of inner EU routs on which a b757-300 can be filled, TK flys the A330-300 to the EU, often carrying no cargo at all, this would be perfect for a b757-300.

so what was the reason for it not being that successful???

Being on offer for a very short time. EIS 1999 and canceled 2003. All sold frames are in use. The 757-300 has a good CASM, better than the 757-200 and much better than the 767-300.

Continental cancelled part of its order and bought 737-800. I am not sure if it was only the customers or Boeing pressing customers because the wanted to shut down the line. Icelandair agreed to cancel their remaining 757-300 and ordered 15 737-800 for a very good price. All were leased to other airlines and later sold, I think they still own one.

It could be that the main reason for shutting down the 757 was not the temporary dearth of orders, but that it was an expensive frame to produce.

[Edited 2016-05-31 03:07:56]
 
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Aesma
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 10:25 am

Quoting ZKNCL (Reply 58):
Does it change the fact that he still operates 757's? If an airline operates at least ONE, it is enough to justify the economics of the aircraft and form a judgement about said aircraft. Since when did quantity mean more relevant? your logic of only looking at the biggest carriers is flawed.

Does one have to operate 100+ of the type to be able to voice their own opinion?

The 757 works for him for reasons that make it not work for 99% of airlines. Boeing and Airbus aren't in the business of building aircraft for niche markets. When they tried to do "cheap" derivatives it already failed (736, A318) so they're not going to do a brand new or expensive derivative for such niches.

Quoting Gasman (Reply 62):
It is true the 757 is enjoying something of a renaissance

Is it ? I don't see any major airline buying them used, except for a couple of airlines which already have tons of them. I don't see any major airline asking for a new 757 either.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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par13del
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 11:26 am

Quoting Andy33 (Reply 78):
If the public actually valued the space more than the fares they'd be boycotting flights which have these tight configurations, but they aren't, are they?

Unfortunately, most pax do not have a choice of which a/c they fly, the majority are not flying on routes that have multiple a/c by multiple airlines example NYC-LHR. In general most may have two carriers and the odds of them using the same type a/c are high, so it is somewhat of a misnomer to say the pax are not voting with their wallet.
The industry does have some unique qualities which airlines take full advantage, after all, we all know of pax who love to pay change fees, check-bag fees, extra leg room, aisle seat, fuel surcharge, food, etc etc etc.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Tue May 31, 2016 3:59 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 73):
All you have to do is look to the 757's big brother the 767 to see the value of perseverance.

The same 767 that last sold a passenger model over four years ago and delivered two planes so far this year? Without freighters and tankers it would have gone the same way as the 757 years ago.

There are a lot of 757s parked in the desert and nobody seems to be in a hurry to reuse them.

Colulda, shoulda, woulda. It's over. It's gone. It ain't ever coming back.   


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Viscount724
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:23 am

Quoting hilram (Reply 82):
Quoting Andy33 (Reply 78):
Yes, a 767 can only go 8-across in Y, but there's no law that says you have to go 9-across in 787s or 10-across in 777s.

Would not 8-across in a 767 result in very very narrow seats?

8-abreast on a 767 is totally unacceptable for scheduled service which is why it has only been used by a few charter/leisure carriers.

Also, there must be 100 other 757-related threads (at least a couple every month) that cover exactly the same points being made in this thread. Too much repetition.

[Edited 2016-05-31 19:28:06]
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:45 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 88):

8-abreast on a 767 is totally unacceptable for scheduled service which is why it has only been used by a few charter/leisure carriers.

That's with the current configuration. If the walls of the 767 could be thinned the way the 777 walls will be on the 779 and 778 perhaps 8 abreast could be configured with seats the same width as the 9 abreast 787 seats.
 
F9Animal
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:55 am

Imagine the 757 MAX? That would sell like hot cakes today. I have heard Boeing may be kicking ideas about a new plane. Perhaps they might use some of the 757 ideas?
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TWA772LR
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:07 am

Mods, I motion for this thread to be closed since all it is, is posters saying "Another 757 thread?"

Nothing against KarelXWB (in fact he is on my Respected list), just all of the replies are the same and there are very few contributors.

Or at least have someone clean up the unnecessary replies.
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LAX772LR
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:33 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 73):
All it took was for Boeing to wait out the market throughout a temporary slump

And you would justify that to the shareholders how, exactly?


Quoting Andy33 (Reply 78):
And yet Boeing would willingly take an order for a new-build passenger 767 tomorrow

Would they?

IINM, they're winding down deliveries, don't offer it as a bid on open RFPs anymore, and have taken the pax 767 down from their website and promotional materials.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Max Q
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:24 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 92):
And you would justify that to the shareholders how, exactly?

Pretty simple, how many billions is it going to take now to develop an answer to the A321N ?



Boeing has a massive dilemma with this, choices are to cede the market to AB, keep warming up
the MAX which looks hopeless or spend a fortune to develop a true competitor that can't really
be anything but too specialized.



It will be too big to shrink without significant weight penalties and become a true 737 replacement
so it can't be part of a family of aircraft that will appeal to many different markets.



If they had persevered with the 757, just kept the line open for a while longer and continued promoting
a new gen 757 the orders would have returned.


Ironically they closed the line just as the returns in the long thin and TATL markets just started to become
apparent.



Probably the worst decision Boeing has made in the Commercial business and very surprising considering
their experience with order slumps.



The 737-200 couldn't be given away for some time, same with the 747 Classic but management stuck with it
and the results speak for themselves.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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scbriml
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:46 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 93):
Pretty simple, how many billions is it going to take now to develop an answer to the A321N ?

How many billions would it have cost to keep the line open building nothing?   

It's gone.   
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XAM2175
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:48 pm

Quoting Btblue (Reply 18):
I recall Boeing broke all the tooling etc and this had a tax benefit.

The other benefit they got from doing this - and it bears pointing out each and every time the suggestion even accidentally appears that the tooling was scrapped just for the sheer fun of it - is that the space they used to use for 757 final assembly is now additional space for 737 final assembly.

So regardless of any other merit the 757 may or may not have had, or might hypothetically have now, the fact is that an assembly line for an aircraft that only booked a hand-full of orders for the last few *years* of its existence gave way to an additional assembly line that is allowing Boeing to lift 737 production to 52 per *month* within two years - and that has made Boeing a very large amount of money.
 
ckfred
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:33 pm

Quoting na (Reply 2):
Boeing has made many mistakes in product planning, not just abandoning the 757 market niche. Boeing made the 787 bigger than the predecessor 767, thus prolonging the 767s life as not everybody wanted to take the step. I am sure their original plan was to let the 767 die on the advent of the 787. They made the 777 so big that it endangered the flagship 747, certainly also something not originally envisaged. They are developing the 777X when a all-new 737 successor would have been the wiser first step. Now they have the 737Max which will hardly last for more than a decade I think.

Hindsight is always 20:20. But, at the time, Boeing had no orders for the 757. I know that management had talked to a number of 757 customers, and no one planned to buy 757s for some time. Let's remember than post 9/11, a lot of airlines deferred or cancelled orders for 737NGs, 767s, and 777s. People weren't flying, and the mild recession, along with the collapse of the tech and dot.com sectors really hurt the airlines.

I have a book written about the 777 program. Alan Mulally said that airlines were pestering Boeing for an aircraft bigger than the 767-300, but smaller than a 747-400. At the same time, they didn't want merely a stretched 767-300, because they wanted greater range and cargo payload.

Hence, the 777-200.

While the 777 didn't help the prospects of the 747, let's remember that airlines have become fanatical about costs. A 747 is more expensive to operate, simply because there are 4 engines to maintain, even if the 4 engines are as fuel efficient as 2 engines on a 777.

So, if you have a fleet of 772s and 773s, that is more efficient than a fleet of 772s and 744s.

As for the 787 being bigger than the 767, let's remember that Boeing has a habit of customers talking it into building too large of a plane. The 757 was supposed to replace the 727-200, but Eastern talked Boeing into stretching the fuselage.

From what I know, Boeing was looking at a clean-sheet replacement for the 737NG in the mid 2000s. AA held off ordering 738s to replace the MD-80s, despite the rising price of oil, because it didn't want more 738s, if a newer narrowbody was going to be introduced. Southwest told Boeing that if it designed a narrowbody that had the improvement over the 737-700, that matched the improvement of the 787 over the 767, it would order 100 and take options for 100.

But, between the 748 and the 787 programs needed so many resources to get back on track, Boeing dropped the plans.
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:20 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 93):

If they had persevered with the 757, just kept the line open for a while longer and continued promoting
a new gen 757 the orders would have returned.


Quoting XAM2175 (Reply 95):

The other benefit they got from doing this - and it bears pointing out each and every time the suggestion even accidentally appears that the tooling was scrapped just for the sheer fun of it - is that the space they used to use for 757 final assembly is now additional space for 737 final assembly.

Prior to 9-11-2001 I read some articles in the Wall Street Journal about Boeing's conversion of the 737 line to a moving line. One article even mentioned the possibility of mixing in 757's into one of the 737 lines to allow 757's to be produced at a lower rate. I guess that was a more difficult idea to implement than originally anticipated.

[Edited 2016-06-01 13:22:48]
 
sv11
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:54 pm

Quoting hoMsaR (Reply 51):
The 737 can do the route perfectly fine. UA uses the 757 on EWR-SFO because, ever since they discontined their JFK operation, the only fly planes with flat-bed business class on the EWR-SFO transcon, and UA has no flat-bed configured 737s. UA will only fly either their ps configured 757s, international 757s (former CO aircraft), or widebodies on that route now.

Can the 737-900er carry adequate cargo on this route compared to the 757?

sv11
 
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Aesma
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RE: Opinion: Boeing Made A Mistake Abandoning The 757

Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:22 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 93):
Pretty simple, how many billions is it going to take now to develop an answer to the A321N ?

That's irrelevant, a 757MAX wouldn't be an A321Neo competitor. It would be a bigger, more expensive, more maintenance heavy, more fuel thirsty, longer ranged plane, just like the 757 is compared to the A321, and I see no reason why it would sell that well.
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