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dcajet
Topic Author
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Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 4:44 pm

(Mentioned in the LH leaving CCS thread - I think it deserves its own thread).

LATAM announced that effective Aug 1st it is suspending all operations in Venezuela.

The process started this past Saturday, when LATAM operated the last GRU-CCS-GRU rotation. Next will be the LIM-CCS and SCL-GYE-CCS routes, both ending by July 31st and thus ending LATAM's operations in Venezuela.

The measure leaves Venezuela without a direct connection to Chile and Brazil, making travel to/from Venezuela from those countries only possible through other hubs in the region, such as EZE, BOG and PTY. From EZE, AR is down to 2x week flights with a 738, down from a daily rotation until recently. AR still uses CCS as tech stop on its route to HAV, but this route (2x week) is being shut down next month.

There are some rumors indicating that TP and AF may be the next ones to pack up and leave CCS.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
MD13
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 4:48 pm

Pretty soon CCS will be left with BOG, PTY, MIA and MAD only, markets with the biggest numbers of Venezuelan emigrants...
 
winGl3t
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 5:12 pm

Quoting dcajet (Thread starter):
AF may be the next ones to pack up and leave CCS

AFAIK AF still does well with connecting traffic from Europe and Asia going to CCS and sold outside Venezuela. I don't think they will suspend the route.
 
G500
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 5:28 pm

its a big risk for those who will decide stay

Do you stay and have very little competition, and on some markets have absolutely no competition, and risk not getting paid??

or do you close shop and go?
 
EddieDude
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 5:29 pm

Quoting MD13 (Reply 1):
Pretty soon CCS will be left with BOG, PTY, MIA and MAD only, markets with the biggest numbers of Venezuelan emigrants...

Has AM dropped MEX-CCS-MEX? There is a HUGE diaspora of Venezuelans in Mexico, including Mexico City and other cities.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
Avianca
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 5:55 pm

Quoting winGl3t (Reply 2):
AFAIK AF still does well with connecting traffic from Europe and Asia going to CCS and sold outside Venezuela. I don't think they will suspend the route.

yes they do with high prices - but they have a lot of internal preassure from the unions to suspend the flights.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
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gatibosgru
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 6:21 pm

Sucks that it has come down to this.
@DadCelo
 
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Miami
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 6:23 pm

I'm more surprised that Venezuelan airports still have carriers operating flights.

[Edited 2016-05-30 11:24:36]
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
SCQ83
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 6:50 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 5):
yes they do with high prices - but they have a lot of internal preassure from the unions to suspend the flights.

b/c of crime?
 
B8887
Posts: 457
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 7:11 pm

Honestly, I think that country might seriously want to start to think about asking for outside help. For the astronomical crime rate alone, some kind of peacekeeping force might come in hand. They have problems of their own making that only affect themselves.

Regards.

B8887
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 7:18 pm

I wonder if one of AF, KL or IB - as potentially the last man standing - would look at retaining service to CCS to possibly as a tag to another destination, thus allowing a crew to do a return trip from/to the intermediate point without doing a stopover plus avoiding the need to do any aircraft refueling or replenishment in CCS. Whilst such a move would add costs, it could be said to remove some risk and if you are last carrier serving CCS it could also make it a lot more viable.

It would be a bit like how BA has served THR in the past. At one point flights routed LHR-LCA-THR-LHR, with a crew change in LCA to do a round trip back to LHR.

[Edited 2016-05-30 12:20:10]
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
Burkhard
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 7:43 pm

Could KL serve CCS via Aruaba? That would need not much operation in CCS.
 
TGV
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 7:49 pm

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 10):
I wonder if one of AF, KL or IB - as potentially the last man standing - would look at retaining service to CCS to possibly as a tag to another destination, thus allowing a crew to do a return trip from/to the intermediate point without doing a stopover plus avoiding the need to do any aircraft refueling or replenishment in CCS. Whilst such a move would add costs, it could be said to remove some risk and if you are last carrier serving CCS it could also make it a lot more viable.

Are you sure KLM serves CCS? For me they only sell tickets on the AF flight.

Regarding AF they could fly with a stop in PTP or FDF.
They could even use a smaller plane between PTP/FDF and CCS. I am sure creativity can be used when you sell tickets ex CCS at more than 1900 euros in eco to Paris (random dates in July / August) for a 9/10 hours flight (on the same days, a CDG-SIN flight (13 hours) is 1150 euros.
This highlights the lack of competition for the airlines still serving CCS.
I will never fly again 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y
 
SCQ83
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 7:53 pm

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 10):
I wonder if one of AF, KL or IB - as potentially the last man standing -

I wouldn't assume IB will be the last standing. Btw KLM does not serve CCS.

Iberia cancelled HAV during their own "crisis" (I mean Iberia's) in 2011, and by historical meaning, HAV is a more important route than CCS (Cuba being the last Spanish colony).

I bet the last European carrier standing will be Air Europa; they love to serve markets that IB has left. As for UX if things get too bad, maybe they could serve it via SSA.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 7:58 pm

I feel for the ground crew. There is no way to keep them safe.

Quoting gatibosgru (Reply 6):
Sucks that it has come down to this.

Not a surprise. Once a government becomes too much of the economy, it will become a Kleptocracy. Then start the clock.

Quoting B8887 (Reply 9):
I think that country might seriously want to start to think about asking for outside help.

What help under what terms? The Chinese are willing to help in return for land becoming their territory. Since eventually the Venezuelan government steals everything.... Help won't help without reforms. The natural sources if aid are the enemy of the state. Much of the crime is police and military, without an overhaul, it will be a money pit with most of the aid just building up the forces to suppress the people. We've seen this before.

Lightsaber
3 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
B8887
Posts: 457
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 8:30 pm

@lightsaber

I think the country is run by a mafia. "Isolation" is a word I see often in the headlines about it. Leaders in Venezuela are behaving in the same way N. Korean leaders do.

They are obsessive, compulsive, neurotic and paranoid. The only population that suffers is theirs.

Regards.

B8887
 
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usxguy
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 8:32 pm

a friend is fairly high up at InselAir -- he said they are doing quite well - and when the flights aren't heavily booked they are tankered up with as much fuel as the MD 80 can handle (until its flowing out from the wings). apparently they've been able to work with the government to trade cash for gas... which wouldn't surprise me if some airlines are also doing that.
xx
 
KaiTak747
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 10:26 pm

I suppose as the disaster in Venezuela continues to unfold we'll see more and more cancellations, with the remaining ones charging astronomical fares.

I would fully expect that if the likes of IB, AF, and TP stay they will either dead head crews or add stopovers to pick up fuel, food and to layover crews.

I wonder what will happen to Conviasa - I can't imagine the government can buy foreign parts and pay for leases with worthless currency and no USD left.
 
olli
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Mon May 30, 2016 11:06 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 4):
Has AM dropped MEX-CCS-MEX?

No, still operating daily with 73G.

Regards,
 
rbavfan
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Tue May 31, 2016 2:05 am

What about AA how much longer can they run it. With A319 or A321 full of fuel for a turn around?
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2983
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Tue May 31, 2016 2:20 am

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 17):
I would fully expect that if the likes of IB, AF, and TP stay they will either dead head crews or add stopovers to pick up fuel, food and to layover crews.

IB could route CCS via TFS, given that there might still be a market for TFS-CCS.
AF CGD-CCS via PTP/FDF even with a change of equipment. Doubt AF would drop CDG-CCS and then keep CCS as a connecting flight for ORY-PTP/FDF-ORY.
TP might flight via FNC as Portugal-Venezuela major market is FNC-CCS. Or TP could fly to MAO via CCS.
Also bear in mind TP has operated flights to CUR, but not sure how attractive that'd be for CCS.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Tue May 31, 2016 2:25 am

Quoting TGV (Reply 12):
Are you sure KLM serves CCS?

No KL service to CCS.
 
Avianca
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Tue May 31, 2016 2:30 am

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 20):
AF CGD-CCS via PTP/FDF even with a change of equipment. Doubt AF would drop CDG-CCS and then keep CCS as a connecting flight for ORY-PTP/FDF-ORY.

no sense at all to swith to ORY - has CCS has most of its trafic international connection in CDG - maybe a CDG-SXM-CCS-SXM-CDG flight could work...?

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 20):
Also bear in mind TP has operated flights to CUR, but not sure how attractive that'd be for CCS.

but only summer charter right?
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
debonair
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Tue May 31, 2016 10:48 am

Quoting dcajet (Thread starter):
There are some rumors indicating that TP and AF may be the next ones to pack up and leave CCS.

I can't believe, after so many carriers left CCS, that the local civil aviation authority (Instituto Nacional de Aeronáutica Civil de Venezuela - INAC) rejected plans by DYNAMIC to serve FLL-CCS.

http://africaairline.tk/2016/05/17/v...amics-application-for-us-charters/

Quoting dcajet (Thread starter):
LATAM announced that effective Aug 1st it is suspending all operations in Venezuela.

This is opposite to the global reservation system - just checked:
Wed 16:15 Caracas (CCS) 19:15 Miami (MIA) LA 566 Non-stop Boeing 767-300 (763) 3:30 Effective from 2017-01-04

Or LATAM forgot to update their schedule...   
 
jayhup
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Tue May 31, 2016 1:16 pm

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 17):

I suppose as the disaster in Venezuela continues to unfold we'll see more and more cancellations, with the remaining ones charging astronomical fares.

What is this disaster of which you speak? Earthquake? Flood? Hurricane?

Actually the "disaster" is called SOCIALISM.

It's okay...some of us know the truth while you dare not speak its name.
 
incitatus
Posts: 3391
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Tue May 31, 2016 2:54 pm

Quoting jayhup (Reply 24):
Actually the "disaster" is called SOCIALISM.

I am very definitely for capitalism and small government, but let's not use labels of things we don't like just to fit a political agenda. Some degree of SOCIALISM is also adopted in other countries, and it works well for some of them, for example, in Scandinavia. Socialism in Sweden is not a disaster.

Quoting jayhup (Reply 24):
It's okay...some of us know the truth while you dare not speak its name.

That adds a bit of drama... !

Venezuela's government was grossly incompetent, it does not matter its ideological leaning on the common political spectrum. On top of it, no country can survive long term the sustained level of graft present in Venezuela and Brazil - Venezuela is just at the terminal stage.

I get a feeling that what is making airlines pull from Venezuela in the last few weeks is concern for the safety of their crews.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
jayhup
Posts: 412
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Tue May 31, 2016 3:02 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 25):
but let's not use labels of things we don't like just to fit a political agenda.

Hugo and Maduro both call it Socialism so why shouldn't I?

Quoting incitatus (Reply 25):
That adds a bit of drama... !

Obviously not an Austin Powers fan.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 25):
Venezuela's government was grossly incompetent, it does not matter its ideological leaning on the common political spectrum. On top of it, no country can survive long term the sustained level of graft present in Venezuela and Brazil - Venezuela is just at the terminal stage.

The government nationalized businesses (especially the oil business) and spent money it didn't have. Corruption is inherent in Socialism...you know..."some Animals are more equal than other."

Big government, whether you call it Socialism or anything else is always corrupt>

Quoting incitatus (Reply 25):
Socialism in Sweden is not a disaster

Quite the opposite....Scandinavian countries are moving away from Socialism.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 25):
I get a feeling that what is making airlines pull from Venezuela in the last few weeks is concern for the safety of their crews.

Along with the tens, if not hundreds of million dollars in money that they can't repatriate.
 
yv773p
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Tue May 31, 2016 4:18 pm

Quoting jayhup (Reply 26):
The government nationalized businesses (especially the oil business)

The Venezuelan oil industry has been nationalized since the 70's. What Chavez did to the industry was fire a very competent managing team and replace them with loyalists who could not run the company.
Even the lazy jellyfish do it!
 
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gatibosgru
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Tue May 31, 2016 7:01 pm

Quoting jayhup (Reply 24):
Actually the "disaster" is called SOCIALISM.

There are different kinds of socialism, stop drinking the kool-aid.
@DadCelo
 
incitatus
Posts: 3391
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Tue May 31, 2016 7:34 pm

Quoting jayhup (Reply 26):
The government nationalized businesses (especially the oil business) and spent money it didn't have. Corruption is inherent in Socialism...you know..."some Animals are more equal than other."

Indeed, that is what the Venezuela government did. I cannot agree that corruption and socialism go together. Capitalism is a fair realization of human ambition, and as such it creates opportunity for corruption too. Brazil is in practice a capitalist country and highly corrupt. Same for other countries in Africa like Uganda.

Quoting jayhup (Reply 26):
Quite the opposite....Scandinavian countries are moving away from Socialism.

They will still continue to have governments as large actors in the economy and a huge social net. Same for other European countries like France, which has a huge government.

Capitalism is superior to Socialism. But trying to imply one is Heaven and the other is Hell is just.... religious. Socialism in itself does not lead to toilet paper shortages.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
DesertAir
Posts: 1450
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RE: Latam Suspends CCS

Tue May 31, 2016 7:42 pm

Venezuela is a classic example of governmental mismanagement.
Local production destroyed.
Over reliance on fuel prices.
Control of prices.
Control of exchange rates.
Executive domination of legislative and judicial branches of government. (Oficialismo)
Foreign investment unattractive.
Insecurity...Caracas has the highest assignation rate in the world.
Ideology over practicality.
Lack of investment in infrastructure.

Countries under a Maduro type regime want other countries to be in service of their ideology and believe they are exempt from rules, like paying for the services they contract. I can understand why the airlines are bailing...millions of dollars of unpaid bills.

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