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n7371f
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VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 7:31 am

8:00am Tuesday morning ATL-time Delta/Virgin Atlantic will announce Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner service Heathrow to Seattle, replacing Delta 767-300ER service effective March 2017.

Also DL will announce PDX-LHR 4x weekly beginning May 2017 through Oct 2017 on 767-300ER.

The Virgin announcement has many factors to it. And even though AS doesn't serve international, they are targeted in this announcement.

Enjoy!

[Edited 2016-05-31 00:33:00]
 
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GE9X
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 7:38 am

Quoting n7371f (Thread starter):
And even though AS doesn't serve international, they are targeted in this announcement.

I'm curious to know how so, but I'm guessing DL/VS is targeting their codeshare feed into BA's SEA-LHR?
 
BlatantEcho
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 11:55 am

"And even though AS doesn't serve international, they are targeted in this announcement. "

I would assume they would be targeted in a favorable way here, actually.
I mean, Delta doesn't have 20% of the presence in Portland they have in Seattle. They would actually need some feed from Alaska to make this flight work

(I'm still skeptical, although I've begged for a PDX-LHR flight for 2 years, just never expected it on DL).

--
The only way it can be an attack on Alaska is showing a commitment to Portland and hoping to get Alaska on both fronts.
Eventually if the mileage programs don't link, people will have to make a choice AS/DL.

If they make it a tough choice in Portland, that helps their entire growth strategy in the Northwest.

--
This would be amazing, but, I will struggle to see Delta pull it off with O/D only. BA would offer limitless connections (as well as satisfying O/D between the two cities). DL doesn't have that nearly as well covered with VA in LHR....


At the same time, if Nike/Freightliner/Intel or some of the other corporate contracts that support AMS/NRT regularly buy lots of seats up front, it could work out just fine!
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 12:03 pm

Portland has been mooted as a new Boeing 787 for BA. I suspect they'll be annoyed at Delta getting in first as BA like to launch new transatlantic routes where they're the sole operator to LHR.
 
flybry
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 12:13 pm

 
PIEAvantiP180
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 12:19 pm

And here is the official press release.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-virgin-atlantic-add-50-120000002.html

[Edited 2016-05-31 05:44:08]
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 12:21 pm

I think it's better for AS.

Now if you fly either the hometown airline or the competitor, you are flying on partner metal to LHR.

None of them fly the route themselves.

Stupid move on the part of DL trying to build a hub in SEA.

I put this one up there with DL briefly ending JFK-CDG a few years ago in favor of partner AF. Same money, stupid optics.

In PDX, they will use AS feed, so another win for AS there.
 
TC957
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 12:32 pm

In more DL / VS news for summer 2017, VS will drop LHR - DTW and DL will take the flight over, and also one of the 2 LHR - ATL flights again with DL operating it.
 
BlatantEcho
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 12:33 pm

omg, it's true!


Great timings too for PDX-LHR. LOVE that afternoon departure (one of my main complaints about PDX-AMS is it leaves before 2pm)... and yes I know it's all about connections.

--
Man, this is super rad. 4x weekly, summer seasonal is not targeting the business people I expected though.
I will do my best to support this new flight, very curious if it can claw it's way to year round and eventually daily....
 
panamair
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 12:54 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 7):
In more DL / VS news for summer 2017, VS will drop LHR - DTW and DL will take the flight over, and also one of the 2 LHR - ATL flights again with DL operating it.

VS will also take over JFK-MAN from DL, upgauging it from a 763ER (DL) to an A333 (VS)
 
8herveg
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 1:19 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 9):
VS will also take over JFK-MAN from DL, upgauging it from a 763ER (DL) to an A333 (VS)

I was hoping that would happen one day. VS has a strong brand presence in both North-West England and in and around NYC, so should do very well.

So MAN will have VS services to ATL, BOS, JFK, LAS, MCO and SFO in the USA....and BGI. Not bad!
 
B747forever
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 1:25 pm

Seems Delta beat BA on starting LHR-PDX. Too bad as I would have preferred BA.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 1:25 pm

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 2):
At the same time, if Nike/Freightliner/Intel or some of the other corporate contracts that support AMS/NRT regularly buy lots of seats up front, it could work out just fine!

Summer seasonal - and less than daily - doesn't suggest they're adding it to support business demand, IMHO.
 
FSDan
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 1:36 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 9):
VS will also take over JFK-MAN from DL, upgauging it from a 763ER (DL) to an A333 (VS)

Interesting! So DL will no longer fly to MAN, instead relying entirely on VS for that market.

If DL is taking over an extra DTW and ATL flight from VS as well as adding PDX, are they getting extra slots from VS or will they cut PHL or BOS?
 
8herveg
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 1:43 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 13):
Interesting! So DL will no longer fly to MAN, instead relying entirely on VS for that market.

They're only taking over MAN-JFK in the summer, but otherwise, yes.

I was always surprised why VS operate ATL-MAN instead of DL. What's the purpose/advantage of doing this?
 
questions
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 1:52 pm

How does DL/VS determine who flies which route? Is it based on best aircraft size for the market? Need for connections at one end or the other? Corporate contracts at one end or the other? Ability to attract more premium paying passengers?

And on a related note, how comparable are DLs and VSs labor costs?
 
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Richard28
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 1:53 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 9):

VS will also take over JFK-MAN from DL, upgauging it from a 763ER (DL) to an A333 (VS)

So with VS also flying from MAN to BOS, SFO, JFK next year, in addition to ATL, MCO, LAS and Caribbean routes, a dedicated VS clubhouse must be round the corner... surely?
 
ANA787
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 2:00 pm

Never thought I'd see DL start PDX-LHR before PDX-CDG. Must be a strike at BA to keep them from starting PDX-LHR.
 
8herveg
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 2:30 pm

Quoting Richard28 (Reply 16):
So with VS also flying from MAN to BOS, SFO, JFK next year, in addition to ATL, MCO, LAS and Caribbean routes, a dedicated VS clubhouse must be round the corner... surely?

I did think that, but if you break it down, BGI, BOS, LAS and SFO are only seasonal flights. ATL, JFK and MCO are year round, but would amount to only 4 flights a day at most - not sure if that is enough to justify a clubhouse?
 
TC957
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 2:38 pm

They have a clubhouse at JFK for their 4 LHR flights ( now 5 I know )
Depends how serious VS are at MAN about attracting premium passengers.
 
8herveg
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 2:40 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 19):
They have a clubhouse at JFK for their 4 LHR flights ( now 5 I know )
Depends how serious VS are at MAN about attracting premium passengers.

True. In fact they have them at other locations too don't they? With even 1 or 2 daily flights? BOS and LAX?
 
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b727fa
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 3:24 pm

A very real factor in which metal is used on some routes is who has the market recognition "at home?" MAN locals are going to "know" VS more than Delta and will book with whom they know. Same in, say, PDX. In bigger (say generally more cosmopolitan) cities it is *more likely* that either brand will have had exposure and that distinction in the brand recognition may be less. Here are obviously many other factors, but the "local" traffic brand recognition is a driver.

Now don't turn this into a thread about how "cosmopolitan" MAN and PDX are. That's not the point; it's a general statement, not a rule.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 3:50 pm

Quoting b727fa (Reply 21):
" MAN locals are going to "know" VS more than Delta

You are aware that DL have operated through MAN for 25 years rather successfully..?

Give me DL over VS any day.
 
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Richard28
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 4:00 pm

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 20):
True. In fact they have them at other locations too don't they? With even 1 or 2 daily flights? BOS and LAX?

   indeed they do, and you can add JNB and HKG to that list too, which each have one rotation per day.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 19):
Depends how serious VS are at MAN about attracting premium passengers.

I guess this is where the answer is, VS have enough flights to merit a clubhouse, but is this where their MAN market is?
 
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tlecam
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 4:06 pm

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 18):
I did think that, but if you break it down, BGI, BOS,

VS operates BOS year round. So does Delta.

When VS joined the route, this was the fleet mix:

Summer months: VS 789 and DL 764
Winter months: VS mostly 330, but with substitutions and DL 763 (high J class)


This summer VS is operating the 346 (mostly) and DL is operating the 763 (high J class ,again, mostly).
 
8herveg
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 4:14 pm

Quoting tlecam (Reply 24):
VS operates BOS year round. So does Delta.

When VS joined the route, this was the fleet mix:

Summer months: VS 789 and DL 764
Winter months: VS mostly 330, but with substitutions and DL 763 (high J class)


This summer VS is operating the 346 (mostly) and DL is operating the 763 (high J class ,again, mostly).

I was talking about from MAN, not LHR
 
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b727fa
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 4:19 pm

I am very aware DL has been in MAN for a long time. You are aware I said it was a factor? If you don't like the answer, feel free to take it up with Richard as that's who told the Velvet meeting last year.
 
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deltadawg
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 4:22 pm

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 17):
Never thought I'd see DL start PDX-LHR before PDX-CDG. Must be a strike at BA to keep them from starting PDX-LHR.

I would say it was more connecting the dots for their investment rather than a strike at BA. I would also say that it is another way to cement their marketshare on the West Coast and to reassert their focus on PDX. At one time DL had a very nice focus city/small hub at PDX. It was a sad day to see them take so many routes out of PDX. It is good to see this come back to PDX though.
 
toobz
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 4:39 pm

Very interesting!! Seems that DL is doing better in PDX and SEA than most people give them credit for, eh..?
 
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tlecam
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 4:57 pm

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 25):
I was talking about from MAN, not LHR

Shows what I know! I didn't even know VS was planning to oeprate MAN from BOS. I must have missed that. My apologies.
 
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TedToToe
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 5:08 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 7):
In more DL / VS news for summer 2017, VS will drop LHR - DTW and DL will take the flight over, and also one of the 2 LHR - ATL flights again with DL operating it.

Can somebody clarify where this leaves the total DL T3/T4 split operation at LHR for S17?
 
Andy33
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 5:37 pm

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 2):
DL doesn't have that nearly as well covered with VA in LHR....

Pedantically, they don't have it covered at all, as VA is Virgin Australia. Virgin Atlantic is VS, but your point is valid. there are few destinations they serve that anyone other than an FF-mile junkie would connect from PDX via London for.
JNB, CPT, DEL, LOS, DXB are about it, and I haven't checked to see if the connections actually work.
PVG and HKG would normally be reached TransPac, and that's it for non-US destinations from LHR.

Skyteam connections across London aren't plentiful, though they do exist.
 
rafflesking
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 5:51 pm

VS's 789 will be on the ground in Seattle for 6 hours. Any reason for the long time period? Neither LHR departure (11am) or arrival (1pm) seem geared specifically to business travelers, so I wonder why they wouldn't truncate to potentially allow for better aircraft utilization.
 
flyDTW1992
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 6:16 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 7):
In more DL / VS news for summer 2017, VS will drop LHR - DTW and DL will take the flight over, and also one of the 2 LHR - ATL flights again with DL operating it.

Is it going back to the previous setup with 2x in the summer on DL and 1x in the winter? Or will it still be 2x year-round, with both on DL metal?
 
A332DTW
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 6:20 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 7):
In more DL / VS news for summer 2017, VS will drop LHR - DTW

Has this route been performing badly for VS?
 
TC957
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 6:23 pm

Quoting flyDTW1992 (Reply 33):

From 1 May 17 it will be 2 x DL DTW - LHR and no VS.
 
TC957
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 6:28 pm

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 34):
Has this route been performing badly for VS?

Don't know the figures, but few would think VS would have wanted to serve DTW if it wasn't for DL.
 
David_itl
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 7:03 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 13):
Quoting panamair (Reply 9):
VS will also take over JFK-MAN from DL, upgauging it from a 763ER (DL) to an A333 (VS)

Interesting! So DL will no longer fly to MAN, instead relying entirely on VS for that market.

*cough* DTW *cough*. Sooner rather than later on DL metal.
 
lhpdx
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 7:07 pm

I'm absolutely thrilled and surprised about the announced PDX-LHR flight summer 2017!!!..Definitely long overdue...What's even more amazing is that the general consensus on other threads for the past two years were that MSY, BNA, and STL were poised to receive this route long before PDX would.....
 
aeroblogger
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 7:11 pm

Quoting rafflesking (Reply 32):
VS's 789 will be on the ground in Seattle for 6 hours. Any reason for the long time period? Neither LHR departure (11am) or arrival (1pm) seem geared specifically to business travelers, so I wonder why they wouldn't truncate to potentially allow for better aircraft utilization.

Probably slot availability
 
toltommy
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 7:31 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 35):
From 1 May 17 it will be 2 x DL DTW - LHR and no VS.
Quoting A332DTW (Reply 34):
Has this route been performing badly for VS?

DL had operated 2 DTW-LHR previously. It's just moving assets around. It's a JV flight, if 1 of the 2 daily flights wasn't performing, they'd just drop it back to one. VS may be back at some point. It's just about maximizing aircraft I'm sure.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 7:58 pm

Quoting lhpdx (Reply 38):
What's even more amazing is that the general consensus on other threads for the past two years were that MSY, BNA, and STL were poised to receive this route long before PDX would.....

I don't agree with that. PDX has long been speculated on A.net to get LHR service soon, albiet on BA.

I wonder if DL will also start PDX-CDG now. I would have expected that instead of LHR.
 
flyoregon
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 8:07 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 41):
I don't agree with that. PDX has long been speculated on A.net to get LHR service soon, albiet on BA.

I wonder if DL will also start PDX-CDG now. I would have expected that instead of LHR.

PDX is overdue for an LHR link. I too thought CDG would come before LHR with Delta, and frankly CDG makes a lot more sense. On the Oregon thread I asked if this might get BA to start now, and because DL isn't until May 2017, maybe BA can announce and launch sooner? BA makes more sense anyway.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 8:23 pm

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 8):
Man, this is super rad.

Are you sure it's not "bitchin" though?   
 
A332DTW
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Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:54 am

RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 8:30 pm

Quoting toltommy (Reply 40):
DL had operated 2 DTW-LHR previously. It's just moving assets around. It's a JV flight, if 1 of the 2 daily flights wasn't performing, they'd just drop it back to one. VS may be back at some point. It's just about maximizing aircraft I'm sure.

Makes sense. I figured VS joining the DTW market was more of a strategic move to keep BA from coming back. It would be a win-win for DL and VS.
 
rwsea
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 8:34 pm

Quoting toobz (Reply 28):

Very interesting!! Seems that DL is doing better in PDX and SEA than most people give them credit for, eh..?

These are two of the fastest-growing markets in the country at the moment. Both are booming in terms of tourist demand, growing business ties, etc. I think it's less a function of DL doing well and more of the growth in travel. Hopefully the PDX-LHR flight can expand to year-round service if the summer season is successful. I will personally enjoy an extra option to Europe, as the AMS flight is often very expensive and sometimes sold out.

There aren't a ton of connections available at LHR but there will be connections available to CDG, AMS, and Italy. Will be nice to have more options to avoid east coast connections if the AMS flight is too expensive.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 8:37 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
Stupid move on the part of DL trying to build a hub in SEA.

Because you totally can show us the numbers to substantiate that claim, rightttt?


Quoting deltadawg (Reply 27):
It was a sad day to see them take so many routes out of PDX. It is good to see this come back to PDX though.

Interestingly enough, they have more intercon destinations (and probably capacity) now than they did when they cancelled PDX-NRT/NGO 15yrs ago!

Quoting lhpdx (Reply 38):
What's even more amazing is that the general consensus on other threads for the past two years were that MSY, BNA, and STL were poised to receive this route long before PDX would.

....on BA. DL/VS sorta throw a wrench in the works.

Quoting flyoregon (Reply 42):
maybe BA can announce and launch sooner?

Why bother? DL's apparently going for a redux of SLC, which worked.
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3698
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 8:45 pm

Quoting toobz (Reply 28):
Seems that DL is doing better in PDX and SEA than most people give them credit for, eh..?

Hard to make any conclusions when airlines are willing to lose money for years in an attempt to gain a position of market power in the long-run. As it stands, SEA-LHR is heavily over-served compared to other DL strongholds. It can't be a doing great for anyone at the current capacity. If anything VS taking over is another sign of DL doing quite poorly on the route.
 
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bigfoot0503
Posts: 429
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RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 9:14 pm

Quoting toobz (Reply 28):
Seems that DL is doing better in PDX and SEA than most people give them credit for, eh..?

By most accounts Delta seems to be doing quite well at PDX. The most recent Port of Portland statistics for April 2016 have Delta posting a nearly 21% growth in passengers year to date as compared to the same time period in 2015...that figure doesn't even account for the flying done by Compass and SkyWest. With DL witnessing increasing market share gains at PDX as well as the addition of year round AMS on the A330-300, transcon markets such as JFK and ATL seeing equipment such as the B767 and B757-300, mainline DL on SEA flights...I would only expect the numbers to continue to grow.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2390
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

RE: VS Comes To SEA-LHR; DL Goes To PDX-LHR

Tue May 31, 2016 9:20 pm

Quoting toobz (Reply 28):
Very interesting!! Seems that DL is doing better in PDX and SEA than most people give them credit for, eh..?

Pretty common knowledge that DL wasn't doing all that well SEA-LHR except in summer. Interesting they were able to convince VS to take over the route for them...I wouldn't be surprised if it goes to less than daily at some point. Maybe VS can make money where DL could not? Or it was a quid pro quo involving other route swaps?

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