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G500
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Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 11:01 am

I just read Air China has postponed or re-scheduled their PVG-
SJC launch twice. And they haven't even put a date now
 
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gdg9
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 12:55 pm

AirlineRoute.net shows it has being canceled outright.
@dfwtower
 
 
UALWN
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 1:01 pm

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 1):
AirlineRoute.net shows it has being canceled outright.

And LH have postponed their FRA-SJC flights.
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/350/380
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 1:02 pm

BA, HU, NH and soon LH. Maybe it was too many too fast....
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 1:55 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 3):

To when did they postpone it?
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
G500
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 2:10 pm

Well. That just SUCKS

San Jose was doing so well. They were growing nice and steady
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 2:16 pm

Maybe HU will jump in and serve SJC-PVG...like they did in SEA.
 
Noise
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 2:25 pm

Quoting G500 (Reply 6):

Well. That just SUCKS

San Jose was doing so well. They were growing nice and steady

Growing very fast. Maybe it more was the what the market can handle at the moment?

From what I understand, the Tech Industry has been slowing a little, no? Not as red hot as it was last year or two years ago.
 
HeeseokKoo
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 2:26 pm

US-pek/pvg operational right is filling up quickly. Just like AA and DL compete on the last batch, same problem to Chinese side. Maybe CA found a better way to use limited source such as increasing frequency on existing route, etc. Or securing international slot out of pvg was an issue?
 
UALWN
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 2:45 pm

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 5):
To when did they postpone it?

From April 29th, 2016 to July 1st.
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/350/380
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 2:51 pm

Quoting G500 (Reply 6):
San Jose was doing so well. They were growing nice and steady

A bit melodramatic no?

SJC was little more than a domestic station not all that long ago. Didn't have intercon service since AA killed NRT.
Now it's got Japan, China, UK, and Germany on the way--- not bad for a secondary airport.

It's still "doing so well" and growing.


Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 9):
Or securing international slot out of pvg was an issue?

That'd be my guess. And it's not their primary gateway, so maybe just didn't want the effort.

[Edited 2016-05-31 07:53:38]
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
AirFiero
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 3:28 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 7):
Maybe HU will jump in and serve SJC-PVG...like they did in SEA.

Wasn't PVG going to be 3x per week anyway? Is HU to Beijing 4x or 5x? One airline could do a 4/3 split.
 
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lindy field
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 5:38 pm

It looks like Air China will be increasing SFO service to PEK from daily up to 10 or 11 x a week from November onward. The new flight is a 777-300ER arriving SFO at 16:20 and departing at 00:30. I suppose this is their way of increasing SF Bay Area service.
 
steex
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 5:52 pm

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 9):
Or securing international slot out of pvg was an issue?

CA really shouldn't have a problem securing slots, they're generally the chosen son of the CAAC.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 7):
Maybe HU will jump in and serve SJC-PVG

I always suspected that CA applied simply to block a competitor (primarily HU, but also MU) from the route authority. The Chinese authorities generally shy away from awarding route authorities to multiple Chinese carriers for longhaul routes, and is known to refrain from providing a duplicate authority when the existing holder is CA. Now that CA holds the PVG-SJC authority, they would likely need to officially vacate it or refuse to start service for a long period of time before the Chinese authorities would award the route to someone else.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 6:29 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 11):
SJC was little more than a domestic station not all that long ago.

What's "all that long ago"?
"Up the Irons!"
 
FSDan
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 6:35 pm

Quoting lindy field (Reply 13):
It looks like Air China will be increasing SFO service to PEK from daily up to 10 or 11 x a week from November onward. The new flight is a 777-300ER arriving SFO at 16:20 and departing at 00:30.

If you ask me, additional service on PEK-SFO makes way more sense for CA than starting PVG-SJC... If more East Asia service is needed from SJC, perhaps KE will jump in with ICN-SJC. Without actually seeing the data, I would guess there is more of a market to ICN anyway given the major South Korean tech industry.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
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jsnww81
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 6:46 pm

That's how it goes sometimes. By the time the airlines realize there's demand for a particular route and announce it, the market has already started to soften. Look at poor SAS and their Houston-Stavanger flight.
 
steex
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 6:52 pm

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 17):
That's how it goes sometimes. By the time the airlines realize there's demand for a particular route and announce it, the market has already started to soften. Look at poor SAS and their Houston-Stavanger flight.

Or, alternately, sometimes airlines think there may be room for one more player in a market and are proven wrong by the advance bookings. I suspect that is more likely the case here; I don't think there has been much change in SJC-PVG between when CA would've been studying the route and subsequently announcing it, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that CA/PVG just isn't the right airline/route to be the third mover on SJC-Asia and the bookings reflected it.
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 6:54 pm

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 15):
What's "all that long ago"?

Before ANA launched NRT in 2013, just 3 years ago.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 7:35 pm

Quoting ytraveller (Reply 19):

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 15):
What's "all that long ago"?

Before ANA launched NRT in 2013, just 3 years ago.

SJC did have services to NRT for a long time prior to it stopping between 2006-2013.

SJC also had services to Mexico as well as TPE/CDG (albeit TPE/CDG was short lived).
"Up the Irons!"
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Tue May 31, 2016 7:54 pm

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 20):
SJC also had services to Mexico as well as TPE/CDG (albeit TPE/CDG was short lived).

SJC-TPE and SJC-CDG lasted six months in 2001. I'm pretty sure SJC always had Mexico service. I don't think it was ever dropped. When MX went under, AS picked up SJC-GDL. Y4 has been in the picture for awhile too.

SJC did however lose Canada service for quite awhile until AC is bring it back now.

I asked this question on another thread and no-one replied. Anyone know how HU is doing at SJC?
 
jacobin777
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:50 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 21):
SJC-TPE and SJC-CDG lasted six months in 2001. I'm pretty sure SJC always had Mexico service. I don't think it was ever dropped. When MX went under, AS picked up SJC-GDL. Y4 has been in the picture for awhile too.

Add to the fact AA was flying to NRT with the MD-11 for a long time.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 21):
I asked this question on another thread and no-one replied. Anyone know how HU is doing at SJC?

While its a number of months delayed, there are govt. websites which will provide some info.

Also:

"That route is doing pretty well, according to a regular update of airline passenger load factors. The service recorded its best-ever load factor of 84 percent in February of this year before settling at 79 percent in March, the most recent month available."

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/n...-shanghai-route-appears-to-be.html
"Up the Irons!"
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:21 am

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 15):
What's "all that long ago"?

Three years.

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 20):
SJC did have services to NRT for a long time prior to it stopping between 2006-2013.

Well aware, hence saying the following immediately after the sentence you quoted:
Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 11):
Didn't have intercon service since AA killed NRT.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
MaxxFlyer
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:27 am

ATW Online this evening says they have withdrawn plans to serve SJC.
 
HeeseokKoo
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:50 am

I counted summer US-China (PEK/PVG/CAN only) weekly flights for the 1st week of August, and it turns out Chinese side already used up 180 weekly flights. According to this link, 180 is the cap.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...ina-aviation-idUSKCN0QI0OO20150813

Route list is from wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_rou...etween_the_United_States_and_China

CA
PEK-SFO 11 weekly flights
PEK-LAX 21
PEK-JFK 14
PEK-IAH 7
PEK-HNL 3
PEK-IAD 5
PEK-EWR 7
MU
PVG-LAX 14
PVG-SFO 7
PVG-JFK 14
PVG-HNL 7
PVG-ORD 7
CZ
CAN-LAX 12
CAN-JFK 14
CAN-SFO 4
HU
PEK-SEA 7
PEK-ORD 7
PEK-BOS 7
PVG-SEA 4
PVG-BOS 3
PEK-SJC 5

Routes from elsewhere:
MU NKG-LAX 3/w
CZ WUH-SFO 3/w
HU CSX-LAX 2/w
Total: 188, or 180 from PEK/PVG/CAN

US carriers
UA: 8 daily on the wiki list + 2 weekly PVG-GUM + 3-4 weeklies to CTU XIY HGH
DL: 6 daily
AA: 5 daily
HA: 3 weekly
Total: 148 or 138 to PEK/PVG/CAN.

CA's PVG-SJC was either a bluff or it hoped there will be another bilateral talk between the nations. But since the number will decrease after August, CA may consider September launch. And wow, Chinese carriers has much more flights than US carriers: 188 vs 148 per week. Correct me if I'm missing anything here.

[Edited 2016-05-31 18:56:11]
 
S75752
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:02 am

I don't think SJC-PVG on CA would have worked very well, anyhow, given that the vast majority of their operations are PEK based anyways, but HU claimed that.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:30 am

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 22):
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 21):
SJC-TPE and SJC-CDG lasted six months in 2001. I'm pretty sure SJC always had Mexico service. I don't think it was ever dropped. When MX went under, AS picked up SJC-GDL. Y4 has been in the picture for awhile too.

Add to the fact AA was flying to NRT with the MD-11 for a long time.

I'm aware of that. It was already established in the thread that AA did SJC-NRT. I was commenting on the other international service. AA128/129 started with a DC-10 for short time; then was an MD-11 until the late 1990s. Then it was a 777 until it was discontinued. I flew on the flight three times. It was always full up front and in back.

I did NH once SJC-NRT it was pretty full front and back too, albeit it was 12/26 so holiday time.
 
Aither
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:59 am

I think we will hear a lot of "After all" from China in the next 6 months...
Never trust the obvious
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:23 pm

And now CZ cancels CAN-YYZ.

Trend developing or what?

China Southern Cancels CAN-YYZ (by thenoflyzone Jun 1 2016 in Civil Aviation)
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
Aither
Posts: 1284
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:43 am

RE: Is Air China Not Launching San Jose After All?

Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:40 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 29):
Trend developing or what?


Reports show :"In the first quarter of 2016, the CAAC issued licenses for international route operations to 16 domestic airlines (47 licenses/53 international routes) and 37 foreign airlines (40 licenses/53 international routes). -"

But yields also declined by 30% on many international markets and CAAC also announced they would review the airline subsidies to start international operations.
Too many actors growing too fast.

[Edited 2016-06-02 01:48:20]
Never trust the obvious

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