timz
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Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Tue May 31, 2016 5:37 pm

These are the westward transatlantic flights in the Aug 1958 North American OAG-- which I think means all the scheduled flights. (No TAP transatlantic in the 5/58 Worldwide.)

Aerolineas Argentinas two DC-6 a week

Air France 19 1649s and 7 1049s N Atl, plus two 1649 to ANC and six 1049 to S Amer. ("1049" just means 1049C/E/G/H.)

Alitalia ten DC-7C to IDL and four DC-6B to S Amer

Avianca one 1049

BOAC seven B377, 28 DC-7C, and 9 Britannia N Atl, plus two B377 to Kingston and one to Trinidad.

Canadian Pacific two DC-6B from Madrid and two DC-6B and two Britannia from AMS.

Cubana one 1049

El Al 5 Britannia

Iberia four 1049 N Atl, two to HAV and three to S Amer

Icelandic six DC-4-- says they're all thru from Europe (three Hamburg, two Stavanger, one London)

Irish seven 1049

KLM 18 1049, 13 DC-7C and three DC-6B N Atl, three DC-7C to S Amer, one 1049 to Lima and four to Curacao. It seems their two DC-7Cs to ANC started November 1958.

LAV one 1049

Lufthansa ten 1649 and two 1049 N Atl, three 1049 S Amer

Pan Am 15 B377, 40 DC-7C, 30 DC-6B N Atl, plus seven DC-7C to SFO/LAX. That includes the flights from Africa, which all went via Lisbon.

Panair do Brasil five DC-7C and two Constellation (049 or 149 it seems). The Constellations originate Beirut.

Qantas two 1049

Sabena 14 DC-7C, 7 1049 and two DC-6A. That's what it says.

SAS 18 DC-7C, 13 DC-6B N Atl plus seven DC-7C and one DC-6B to LAX and three DC-7C to ANC. Two DC-7C to S Amer.

Swissair nine DC-7C, three DC-6B N Atl and two DC-7C to S Amer

TCA 15 1049

TWA 31 1649 and 28 1049, plus three 1649 to SFO/LAX and one nonstop to ORD-- that one just started, once ORD got customs. Two of the 1049s originate Manila.

The south south Atlantic doesn't have much-- far as I can see the fastest way to get from Johannesburg to Rio is to change planes in Rome-- 50 hours total time.
 
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adamblang
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Tue May 31, 2016 5:54 pm

Are these weekly or monthly frequencies? Your first paragraph talks about August '58 but your first data point says "a week." These seem infrequent for monthly services but obviously there wasn't nearly the air traffic in 1958 that there is today.
146 319 320 321 332 333 343 717 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 763 764 772 77E 77L 77W 788 789 AR1 AT4 CNA CR2 CR7 DC9 ER3 ERD ER4 E70 E75 E90
 
timz
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Tue May 31, 2016 6:00 pm

All weekly, near the beginning of the month. El Al schedule was eff 3 Aug.
 
shankly
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Tue May 31, 2016 6:09 pm

timz

Love these threads and thanks for taking the time to research...so much more interesting than debating should the 757 have stayed in production

Whats interesting from a British perspective are the Britannia flights. History has not been kind to the Bristol Type 175, but here she is, in her heyday, being operated by three airlines against those pistons.....we forget what a difference in comfort flying on a Britannia would have been over the Lockheeds and Douglases. If she had only entered service in the early 50's I wonder how many of those other flights would have been Britannias. The EL AL Brits of course flew non stop NY to Tel Aviv

And yet, just three months after the snapshot in time of timz post, the first Comet 4 would set even greater standards of safety and comfort, soon followed by the 707 and DC-8

What I had also not realised was BOAC and Pan Am were flying B377's as late as 1958
L1011 - P F M
 
timz
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Tue May 31, 2016 6:22 pm

Quoting shankly (Reply 3):
The EL AL Brits of course flew non stop NY to Tel Aviv

Offhand guess: never on scheduled flights.

The passengers may have liked B377s better than other pistons-- think PA's top transatlantic flights were always B377 until the 707. Offhand guess: BOAC's all-first-class flights were B377s too, in Aug 1958.
 
David_itl
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Tue May 31, 2016 7:11 pm

Sabena used the L1049s out of MAN on their 5th freedom route to New York - not sure if it was 4 weekly or 5 weekly
 
incitatus
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Tue May 31, 2016 7:13 pm

Amazing how big PA and TW were compared to the European carriers - probably in part because LH was still tiny and PA was the de-facto carrier of West Germany in the 50s. Also SK was very large - larger over the North Atlantic than any other European airline save BOAC.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
Viscount724
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:06 am

Quoting timz (Reply 4):
The passengers may have liked B377s better than other pistons-- think PA's top transatlantic flights were always B377 until the 707.

The DC-7C was much faster. Even on SFO/LAX-HNL, much shorter than transatlantic, the difference in flight time was roughly 1 hour compared to the B377.

In PA's January 1958 timetable, 8 months before 707 service started. They had less than 2 daily B377 transatlantic flights then, all F class.One was daily IDL-LHR and continuing beyond to AMS/BRU/DUS/HAM/CPH (tag-on destinations varied by day of week). The other was 4 x week IDL-ORY.

PA had 54 transatlantic flights a week in each direction then:

DC-7C 2 class - 31
DC-6B 2 class - 5
DC-7C all economy - 7
B377 - all F - 11

IDL-LHR nonstop block times then. Note DC-7C 90 minutes faster than B377 eastbound, almost 3 hrs faster westbound.:

Eastbound:
DC-7C - 10:45
B377 - 12:15

Westbound: (I'm guessing westbound block times allowed for possible fuel stop when necessary)
DC-7C - 13:35
B377 - 16:30
 
maxpower1954
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:33 am

This is the kind of thread Airliners used to have, thanks Timz for consistently posting this information.

My contribution: 1958 was the first time more passengers crossed the Atlantic by air - displacing the mighty ocean liners forever for long distance transportation. And this was still the prop era!
 
ThirtyEcho
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:46 pm

A testament to the skill of cockpit crews in safely conducting all those three engine flights across the big drink.
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:37 pm

I took the liberty of putting Timz's numbers into a table:
(I'm not an HTML expert, so I'm not sure why it's displaying all of the blank space here... sorry.)
















































































































































































































































  DC-4 DC-6 DC-7 L-1049 L-1649 L-149 B377 Britannia Total
Aerolineas   2             2
Air France       13 21       34
Alitalia   4 10           14
Avianca       1         1
BOAC     28       10 9 47
Can. Pac.   4           2 6
Cubana       1         1
ElAl               5 5
Iberia       9         9
Icelandic 6               6
Irish       7         7
KLM   3 16 23         42
LAV       1         1
Lufthansa       5 10       15
Pan Am   30 47       15   92
Panair     5     2     7
Qantas       2         2
Sabena   2 14 7         23
SAS   14 30           44
Swissair   3 11           14
TCA       15         15
TWA       28 35       63
Total: 6 62 161 112 66 2 25 16 450
 
timz
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:19 pm

Westward transpacific totals for a week in early August 1958

Canadian Pacific one DC-6B to Auckland, one to Sydney, and two to Tokyo; Britannias will take over both Tokyo flights later in the month.

Japan Air five DC-7C and two DC-6B from SFO, all via HNL

Northwest seven DC-7C from SEA, all via ANC

Qantas five 1049

Pan Am three DC-7C SFO to TYO with connecting DC-7C LAX-HNL, four B377 SFO to MNL with LAX-HNL connections, one LAX-MNL with SFO-HNL connection, three B377 SFO-SYD with LAX-HNL connection (only ten trips west from HNL in August instead of the 14 scheduled). Also, three B377 HNL-TYO with DC-7C connections from SFO and LAX.
 
Western727
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:44 pm

Fascinating thread. Thank you all for contributing.

This all makes me appreciate how far we've come. Recall the PA 377 that was filmed ditching in the Pacific next to a surface ship due to impending fuel starvation brought on by mech problems with its engines. Nowadays, we just hop onto a 330/777/whatever with little thought given to crossing a vast body of water.
Jack @ AUS
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:54 pm

Qantas got my attention, and I did some searching to find out more about their TATL flights. It turns out that 1958 was the launch year of Qantas round-the-world service:
http://www.airwaysmuseum.com/QEA%20r...e%20world%20service%20Jan%2058.htm

What kind of international portfolio did Aeroflot have in 1958? I'm a little surprised not to see it listed.
 
timz
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:25 pm

Aeroflot international flights appeared in the OAG around 1966 as I recall-- first scheduled transatlantic flights were the Tu-114s to Havana circa 1963.
 
Western727
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:58 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 13):
What kind of international portfolio did Aeroflot have in 1958?
Quoting timz (Reply 14):
Aeroflot international flights appeared in the OAG around 1966 as I recall-- first scheduled transatlantic flights were the Tu-114s to Havana circa 1963.

Looking at Wikipedia (I know, I know...   ), it seems that SU launched the first sustained jet service in the world in 1955 on a domestic route (Moscow-Irkutsk in the Far East) on the Tu-104 "Silver Bullet".

Wiki does not elaborate much on TATL service, though it mentions some (non-European) international flights, such as Havana having started in January 1963, as timz pointed out. In 1976, Wiki indicates an "extensive" network to Asia, Africa, Europe and N & S America.

Love to get some more insight on this one.
Jack @ AUS
 
timz
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:55 pm

Aeroflot's first transatlantic schedule was Havana and the second was Montreal, also with the Tu-114-- late 1966 I think it started. New York started with the Il-62, so 1968, wasn't it?
 
Flighty
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:28 am

What was the first scheduled trans Atlantic nonstop?

Of interest for this thread, in October 1958 there was the first scheduled passenger jet trans Atlantic service, with BOAC Comet 4 service, with a fuel stop at Gander.
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:49 am

The first scheduled transatlantic nonstop was in 1932 with the Graf Zeppelin to Brazil followed by the Hindenburg in 1936 to the US ~
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:14 am

Quoting timz (Reply 16):
Aeroflot's first transatlantic schedule was Havana and the second was Montreal, also with the Tu-114-- late 1966 I think it started. New York started with the Il-62, so 1968, wasn't it?

JFK started sometime in 1967. Both Pan Am and Aeroflot started the same day, or within a day or so. The Soviets stalled on agreeing to a bilateral with the U.S. until the IL-62 was ready for service as they didn't want to lose face by operating the Tu-114 turboprop in competition with Pan Am 707s.
 
timz
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:40 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 17):
What was the first scheduled trans Atlantic nonstop?

Pan Am started eastward-only (and winter-only?) LGA-LON nonstop L749s in 1947 or 1948.
 
shankly
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:37 pm

Quoting timz (Reply 4):
Offhand guess: never on scheduled flights.

A fine guess sir, but the proving flight makes fascinating reading:
EL AL Britannia
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timz
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:17 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
The Soviets stalled on agreeing to a bilateral with the U.S. until the IL-62 was ready for service as they didn't want to lose face by operating the Tu-114 turboprop in competition with Pan Am 707s.

Maybe so, but Tu-114s and AC DC-8s started flying Moscow to Montreal in Nov 1966; first Il-62 flights to Montreal were Sept 1967. Turns out Moscow-NY started July 1968.

I should have said Aeroflot started having its own pages in the OAG around 1967-- but some Aeroflot flights appeared before that. The 8/63 OAG shows the Havana Tu-114 leaving SVO at 0445-- what's the point of that?

Everyone agreed El Al never scheduled NY to Tel Aviv nonstop until the 707?

[Edited 2016-06-02 10:28:12]
 
georgiaame
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:38 pm

Not exactly airline topic, but in August 1958, when I wasn't watching those aircraft flying over my house, I was in summer day camp. Made my mother a plaster of paris ashtray with a ceramic tile inlay, and a really neat brown and yellow square shaped lanyard. Lord, the things a child remembers!
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
bhill
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:50 pm

If only Slamclick were still around!! He may have flown some of these....  
Carpe Pices
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:55 pm

I'd be interested to see what things looked like ten years later in 1968, with the widebody jet era just around the corner.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
Viscount724
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RE: Snapshot: Transatlantic Flights, August 1958

Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:55 am

Quoting timz (Reply 22):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
The Soviets stalled on agreeing to a bilateral with the U.S. until the IL-62 was ready for service as they didn't want to lose face by operating the Tu-114 turboprop in competition with Pan Am 707s.

Maybe so, but Tu-114s and AC DC-8s started flying Moscow to Montreal in Nov 1966; first Il-62 flights to Montreal were Sept 1967. Turns out Moscow-NY started July 1968.

Yes, I see JFK started 1968 from various news reports, and YUL in November 1966. I shouldn't have gone from memory.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...IBAJ&pg=3027,3716041&hl=en

Photos below of AC's inaugural flight YUL-CPH-SVO November 1, 1966 (no 5th freedom rights CPH-SVO so very low load factors beyond CPH). The AC inaugural used DC-8-54F combi CF-TJP, and the reciprocal Aeroflot inaugural used Tu-114 CCCP-76490.

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