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dc10lover
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Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 7:59 pm

DULLES, Va. – Turboprops are set for a big comeback in the USA. That’s the bet being made by European aircraft manufacturer ATR, which is turning to the U.S. as it tries to drum up sales of its turboprop models.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...rops-set-big-us-comeback/32635771/
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
KarlB737
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 8:08 pm

How ironic that you posted this. I was just reading the writeup in USA Today. I don't agree with the author of the article as he states that as airlines phase out some of their regional jets they might pursue the ATR.

Our forum has discussed for years the positive economics of the turboprop aircraft however we have also stated the dislike the passengers have for them. Most of us don't have that big a problem with them but the average flier wants a jet.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 8:16 pm

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 1):
however we have also stated the dislike American passengers have for them.

Fixed that for you. Outside of the US, nobody has issues flying Turboprops.

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 1):
but the average flier wants a jet.

Just make the Turboprop ticket cheaper than a jet ticket and Joe Public wouldn't give a rat's ass what type of plane he's flying
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 8:23 pm

The only reason that US passengers dislike 2016 vintage turboprops is that they haven't been exposed to them. The Q400 is admittedly fairly cramped and noisy (albeit a major upgrade from 1990s era models) but the ATR-72-600 is an absolute dream. Wide and spacious cabin, really smooth and quiet, large overheads... fantastic aircraft.
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BostonBeau
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 8:24 pm

I once took a Delta (Connection? Express?) Saab 340B from Boston to Washington National. It was one of my favorite flights. It didn't take any longer than a jet, and we were able to land on 15/33 instead of having to wait for the jet traffic heading for 1/19. Using the toilet on the Saab was a bit of an experience though: it's very small and I was barely able to close the door behind my ample fundament. The only thing I didn't appreciate was having to carry my 2 bags to and from the plane. But assuming a turboprop costs a whole lot less than a pure jet, I can see why airlines might be interested in them.
 
KarlB737
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 8:26 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 2):
Just make the Turboprop ticket cheaper than a jet ticket and Joe Public wouldn't give a rat's ass what type of plane he's flying

While I like the idea I don't think there is even one US airline that will invest in the turboprop again unless oil escalated to $150 a barrel. I sense that they're just not interested. The one US airline that needs new turboprops (Great Lakes Air) won't under any circumstances. Yes they don't have the money and yes the ATR is much larger than what they need.
 
steex
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 8:28 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 3):

The only reason that US passengers dislike 2016 vintage turboprops is that they haven't been exposed to them.

It also doesn't help that the US airlines spent a decade or so marketing jets as superior to props in every way, and knocked any competitor who flew props where they flew jets.
 
tp1040
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 8:32 pm

“We know we’re not very well known here in the U.S.,” Patrick de Castelbajac said during the company’s visit to Washington Dulles International Airport, calling the multi-city demonstration a “first step in getting back into America.”


A lot of people remember ATR, especially when they were banned from flying into icing conditions.
 
KarlB737
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 8:32 pm

Quoting BostonBeau (Reply 4):
The only thing I didn't appreciate was having to carry my 2 bags to and from the plane. But assuming a turboprop costs a whole lot less than a pure jet, I can see why airlines might be interested in them.

Whenever I flew a Mesaba S340 I check in my bags like any other aircraft and never carried anything. As you point out the turboprop is more economical but I challenge our entire forum to name a US airline that might reconsider them. For the record like many of you I am not against them at all but in 2016 name a US airline that will take the step in that direction. Currently the short routes are farmed out to the regional jet airlines that we all know of.

Now having said all of that. If someone wanted to create a turboprop startup to fly several flights out of mid-sized airport that might have merit to ensure decent economics. Several flights out of TOL for example to CMH, IND or whatever you think best from a medium sized airport.

[Edited 2016-05-31 13:41:25]
 
Armodeen
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 8:37 pm

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 8):

Whenever I flew a Mesaba S340 I check in my bags like any other aircraft and never carried anything. As you point out the turboprop is more economical but I challenge our entire forum to name a US airline that might reconsider them. For the record like many of you I am not against them at all but in 2016 name a US airline that will take the step in that direction. Currently the short routes are farmed out to the regional jet airlines that we all know of.

Silver airways? Am always seeing the Saab 340s popping in and out of MCO.
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 9:03 pm

The comfort issue aside, it seems that the general American flying public simply views prop planes as being less safe with low-experience pilots at the helm. Jets tend to give the average flyer a cozier feeling about making it from A to B in one piece.

As to the economic advantage over RJs, no one in the general public is really paying attention when a flight on a prop plane out of their local small spoke airport still costs hundreds more than a flight on a mainline jet out of the larger airport an hour or two away.
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reffado
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 9:17 pm

Even foreign airlines like Bahamasair that have prop service to the US don't price it competitively. For some $10-15 more than the ATR flight out of FLL, you can take the 735 out of MIA to NAS.

I'm eager to fly on the ATR, but I understand why others avoid propeller planes. Hell, the flight durations are roughly the same, but even the layman tool Google flights warns you and lists "Propeller plane" as a negative point.
 
ScottB
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 9:32 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 2):
Just make the Turboprop ticket cheaper than a jet ticket and Joe Public wouldn't give a rat's ass what type of plane he's flying

This might be meaningful if commercial airfares were correlated with the actual cost of providing the service. But they're not; airfares are essentially determined by whatever the airlines' respective revenue management teams think consumers are willing to pay. And frankly, there are passengers who are willing to pay extra to avoid a turboprop or a regional jet, and they outnumber the "enthusiasts" who seek out those types.

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 1):
Our forum has discussed for years the positive economics of the turboprop aircraft however we have also stated the dislike the passengers have for them. Most of us don't have that big a problem with them but the average flier wants a jet.

   While the airlines have also marketed their jet services, general passenger dislike for turboprops cannot be solely attributed to airline marketing. One of the key reasons for US Airways' near-collapse at the beginning of the millennium was its heavy reliance on turboprops and the ability of competitors to poach high-value traffic with hubs like CVG & DTW.

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 1):
I don't agree with the author of the article as he states that as airlines phase out some of their regional jets they might pursue the ATR.

I found that many of the "points" made in the article seemed very stretched with respect to the dynamics of the market. It mentions "RJs proved unpopular with fliers, especially as carriers put them on increasingly lengthy routes." However, RJs are unpopular on lengthy routes because they generally replaced mainline aircraft, rather than comparing unfavorably to turboprops in terms of product. And while high fuel prices were indeed problematic for 50-seat RJs, the bigger issue in the U.S. regional market these days is pilot availability. Moreover, with the network carriers consolidating to three players, traffic flows can be consolidated in smaller markets to fewer hubs, akin to how MEM was eliminated in favor of upgauging flying into ATL.
 
flyby519
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 9:41 pm

Turboprops! The wave of the future!

I do think they will see a resurgence once the US regionals all upgauge to 76seaters. Operators will fly props between secondary/tertiary airports for pennies compared to the fee-for-departure 76seaters. Hopefully this will be the rebirth of the independent branded regional airlines.
 
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 9:51 pm

BBD ought to have a good chance as well, as the Q400 can offer amenities that US passengers like, like 1+2 First class seating, two lavatories, galley with convection oven, faster cruise speed.

The ATR are beautiful aircraft, I have flown them a lot, but 45 minutes is long enough for me - they rattle quite a lot in the clouds.
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 10:45 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 3):
The only reason that US passengers dislike 2016 vintage turboprops is that they haven't been exposed to them. The Q400 is admittedly fairly cramped and noisy (albeit a major upgrade from 1990s era models) but the ATR-72-600 is an absolute dream.

Implicitly you're arguing that AA/DL/UA/WN - with more than 3,000 mainline aircraft between them - don't know their customers. Good luck with that line of thinking.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 10:52 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 14):
BBD ought to have a good chance as well, as the Q400 can offer amenities that US passengers like, like 1+2 First class seating, two lavatories, galley with convection oven, faster cruise speed.

The ATR72-600 can do most of that as well.

I noticed that ATL wasn't a stop on the tour. Could it be because the only airline based there has refused to consider turboprops and their CEO has gone on record boasting that an all-jet fleet delivers a revenue/yield premium even when oil is high (which I highly doubt)?
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 10:57 pm

This article is kind of out of source a little bit. I wonder if anyone told AS the turboprops are making a comeback. Aren't they in the process of phasing out their Q400's for EMB Jets?
 
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 11:15 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 17):
I wonder if anyone told AS the turboprops are making a comeback. Aren't they in the process of phasing out their Q400's for EMB Jets?

Only a few Q400s are leaving. Most of the QX E175s will be used for growth, particularly in places like LAX and SFO where AS is about to get a lot bigger.
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codc10
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 11:16 pm

I'm not familiar with the American pilot joint contract, but at United and Delta, Q400s occupy the same category as similarly-sized jets with respect to caps on total frames. The 76-seat jets are more passenger-pleasing and capable than the Q400s, so United recently pulled all of them out of service, to be replaced with E75.

At Continental, the Q was a "scope buster" as CO's restrictive pilot contract forbade contract (COEX/Connection) operations with any jets over 50 seats. Turboprops allowed CO to get around the scope issue.

We'd have to see some changes to pilot contracts to make the case for large turboprops stronger in the USA.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 11:50 pm

Quoting codc10 (Reply 19):
I'm not familiar with the American pilot joint contract, but at United and Delta, Q400s occupy the same category as similarly-sized jets with respect to caps on total frames. The 76-seat jets are more passenger-pleasing and capable than the Q400s, so United recently pulled all of them out of service, to be replaced with E75.

The new AA pilot contract has no restrictions on turboprops, largely because of the Piedmont Dash 8 fleet. Regional jets have a limit that Eagle hasn't reached yet, but if AA retires 50-seat RJ flying, it can replace it with an equal number of 76-seat RJ Eagle flying.

Probably a reason why most stops on the tour were AA hubs or AA-dominant outstations.
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Tue May 31, 2016 11:54 pm

Turboprops have an economic advantage for short haul flights. Long haul they lose their edge because flying low altitude catches up in fuel burn over RJs. Unfortunately short haul routes that are hassle free, cheap, and quick over surface alternative like driving are becoming scarce. They are becoming niche aircraft as infrastructure improves over time.
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bigb
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:00 am

Keep in mind, the biggest drawback on Turboprops are the fact that they can be an operational nightmare at times. A lot of times, they can be weight restricted during certain times of the year due to the need of maintaining fuel reserves. I hear about this a lot with commutairs Q200s and Q300s operations in the NE.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:00 am

To everyone who thinks the turboprop will make a resurgence.. especially a 50 seat or less turboprop:

With the pilot pool shrinking, who will be piloting these aircraft?
 
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:09 am

I go out of my way to book a Turboprop if the itinerary allows. Did the SkyWest Brasilia LAX-PSP. Interesting flight that, we took off over the Pacific, and hugged the coast way past SNA, finally turned inland halfway to SAN. In December I booked UA STL-IAD-RIC with the IAD-RIC sector on the Dash 200. Loved it, great views at those low altitudes. Did the AA Eagle MIA-EYW on the ATR, man what a cool flight.

I grew up on Ozark FH-227B's so it's all good to me. Got to hit the Shorts 360 on Mississippi Valley once PIA-ORD. If we got above 10,000 feet I would be surprised.
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:20 am

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 13):
Hopefully this will be the rebirth of the independent branded regional airlines.

As much as I would love to see this, I just think it's wishful thinking. The US4 control most of the flying in the US, and will be able to make any new independent regional airline a memory rather quickly. They'd have to be placed in medium sized cities, cities with former hubs would be the likely candidate, and fly ptp to other medium and even smaller cities, and avoid the large mega hubs of the US3 and larger out stations of WN, something that in and of itself is not a small task.

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 21):
Unfortunately short haul routes that are hassle free, cheap, and quick over surface alternative like driving are becoming scarce.

They could be focused in areas with a high amount of surface traffic, like the NE corridor or west coast or Florida. But the US4 have already carved those niches and those markets are a race to the bottom for prices.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:21 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 2):
Fixed that for you. Outside of the US, nobody has issues flying Turboprops.

And inside the U.S., nobody has any issue spending gas to be more comfortable.
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intotheair
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:38 am

I don't see how turboprops could make a comeback in the U.S. given the regional pilot shortage and preference for the E-jets. Hell, I'm sure QX/AS will continue to keep flying the Q400 on routes where it makes sense for a long time, though I'd be very surprised if those Q400s get replaced with props when it's time to start retiring them en masse.
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:01 am

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 8):
to fly several flights out of mid-sized airport that might have merit to ensure decent economics. Several flights out of TOL for example to CMH, IND or whatever you think best from a medium sized airport.

Perhaps if ATR were to lobby and get the US speed limit reduced to 45mph, then a case may be made for turbo-props. With all the hassles of early check in requirements due to security lines and worse the uncertainty of how long security lines may be that day, it is too simple to get in one's car and drive 3-4 hours directly to ones destination. If self driving cars become commonplace in 7 years short haul flying (under 300-400kms) will disappear.
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scbriml
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:14 am

Quoting tp1040 (Reply 7):
A lot of people remember ATR

Outside of a.net, I bet the number is tiny.
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32andBelow
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:31 am

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 23):
With the pilot pool shrinking, who will be piloting these aircraft?

Congress needs to drop the limit for aircraft under 50 seats. It's insane.
 
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aerolimani
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:51 am

It's something I see as unlikely for any of the existing majors, for sure. What about a startup though? Porter, in Canada, has done very well for themselves, flying the Q400. I do realize that the main reason they fly the Q400 has to do with restrictions banning jets at their main hub, YTZ. Nonetheless, they've successfully convinced a loyal customer base that their Q400s are a good product.
 
dc10lover
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:01 am

And speaking of turboprops:

WestJet orders another 9 versatile #Q400 increasing its fleet to 45
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
flyingalex
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:35 am

The funny thing is, I actually find most turboprops to be more comfortable than regional jets.

The ATRs and Q400s have wider and higher cabins than E135s/E145s and CRJs. They also have bigger overhead bins, and quite often more legroom as well. Sure, the props are a bit noisier, but I find that earplugs or noise-cancelling headphones fix that quite nicely. The turboprops may be a little slower, but if I'm not as squeezed in, I don't mind a slightly longer flight time.

I suspect the real issue is the vast distances involved in the US. Airlines like aircraft which are versatile, and the regional jets certainly are. You can send put them on ATL-CHS-ATL in the morning, and then send them on an ATL-ELP-ATL when they come back. Turboprops don't have that option.
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:31 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 2):
Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 1):
but the average flier wants a jet.

Just make the Turboprop ticket cheaper than a jet ticket and Joe Public wouldn't give a rat's ass what type of plane he's flying

An airline will probably get away charging you the same price for a flight on a jet. The difference will be included as "others", most likely. That said, as long as Joe is getting from A to B, I don't think he'd care what he's flying in.

Quoting tp1040 (Reply 7):
A lot of people remember ATR, especially when they were banned from flying into icing conditions.

The ATRs will have a special place for me. Back in PR I'd look up and between jets, a OW ATR would always fly overhead. SJU is definitely a quiet airport, even with B6 picking up the share.
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HPRamper
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:55 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 3):
The Q400 is admittedly fairly cramped and noisy (albeit a major upgrade from 1990s era models) but the ATR-72-600 is an absolute dream. Wide and spacious cabin, really smooth and quiet, large overheads... fantastic aircraft.

The cabin dimensions of the ATR-72-600 and the Q-400 are practically identical so it's hard to see how one is cramped and the other is not, given the same seat configuration. Noise-wise I have not noticed much difference either. Overhead space, that I never paid much attention to.
 
thepinkmachine
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:56 am

Quoting bigb (Reply 22):
Keep in mind, the biggest drawback on Turboprops are the fact that they can be an operational nightmare at times. A lot of times, they can be weight restricted during certain times of the year due to the need of maintaining fuel reserves. I hear about this a lot with commutairs Q200s and Q300s operations in the NE.

Maybe the Q200/Q300. ATR, however, with its 5000kg tanks and amazingly low fuel burn can fly forever. Even at MZFW, it still still take almost 2000kg - that's 3.5 hours worth of flying.

Looking forward to the big comeback of turboprops. Jets are for kids!   
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reffado
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:13 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 26):

And inside the U.S., nobody has any issue spending gas to be more comfortable.

Personally, I've driven some 70,000 miles over the last year and a half just to avoid the hassle of flying (and I like driving, too). I only flew when time was of the essence.

Granted, if we had FR and DY fares over here, that might have been a different story.
 
bjorn14
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:07 pm

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 33):

Modern day turboprops aren't really designed for that kind of flying. They are supposed to be used as 'commuter flying'. Get you to a relatively close by major hub where you can cx anywhere.

I hope the Turkish Do328 makes a comeback. All those Saab340s need to be replaced some time.
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DesertAir
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:18 pm

Horizon, partner with Alaska, has a prop operation that appears to be doing very well. They are able to provide service on thinner routes like Boise and Portland, OR a Sacramento. Service to smaller communities, like Stockton, Ca on props would be a boost to the flying public. Once again, the aviation industry needs some vision and creativity after all of the mergers and creation of mega carriers over the last decades.
 
rbavfan
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:40 pm

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 8):
I challenge our entire forum to name a US airline that might reconsider them.

Hawaiian added 3 ATR-42 passenger and is adding 3 ATR-42 cargo props to their operations under the 'Ohana label.

[Edited 2016-06-01 06:41:57]
 
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Polot
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:43 pm

Hasn't the US been on the verge of a turboprop comeback for the past ~10 years?

First it was QX- they were going to usher in the future.
Then it was CO- obviously with a major getting new ones the rise of the turboprops was just around the corner.
Then it was the high fuel prices- the turboprop's better efficiency would drive airlines to them.

Now we have QX removing ~15 Q400s from their fleet, UA has dumped the Q400s, ATR still has no orders from the US, and regionals are struggling just to reliably pilot all the planes they currently have.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 3):
The Q400 is admittedly fairly cramped and noisy (albeit a major upgrade from 1990s era models) but the ATR-72-600 is an absolute dream. Wide and spacious cabin, really smooth and quiet, large overheads... fantastic aircraft.

The problem is the similar sized E175 is an even better dream. Wider and more spacious cabin, smoother, quieter, just as large overheads if not larger, and has someone mentioned much more flexible in its ability to operate longer flights as well. That is why it has become so popular with US carriers.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3404
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:17 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 40):
Hawaiian added 3 ATR-42 passenger and is adding 3 ATR-42 cargo props to their operations under the 'Ohana label.

Which are operated by Empire Airlines, who has been in the FedEx ATR business for ages, so its not a new operator.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
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intotheair
Posts: 1896
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:57 pm

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 39):

Horizon, partner with Alaska, has a prop operation that appears to be doing very well. They are able to provide service on thinner routes like Boise and Portland, OR a Sacramento. Service to smaller communities, like Stockton, Ca on props would be a boost to the flying public. Once again, the aviation industry needs some vision and creativity after all of the mergers and creation of mega carriers over the last decades.

That's mostly because QX/AS really doesn't have much else to fly a lot of those routes at the moment. Sure, they might open up some new routes, but the Q really starts to lose efficiency on 500+ mile routes. Don't be surprised to soon see AS shift to a mostly 737/E175 operation with a few Qs left to do the shuttle and PNW routes (SEA-PDX, SEA-GEG, EUG/MFR-SEA/PDX, etc.) And farther down the line, once it's time to retire all the Qs, I could easily see QX shift to an all-E-jet operation instead of ordering God knows whatever prop is still being made a decade from now.

I think the Q400 is a fun plane to fly and is far more comfortable than a CR2, but I've never flown a prop on a flight any longer than SEA-EUG, and I (and probably many others) would think twice before booking a 90+ minute flight on one.

[Edited 2016-06-01 07:59:16]
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:14 pm

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 10):
The comfort issue aside, it seems that the general American flying public simply views prop planes as being less safe with low-experience pilots at the helm. Jets tend to give the average flyer a cozier feeling about making it from A to B in one piece.

For good reason. Safety of the regionals grew by leaps and bounds when the jets came in.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 12):
This might be meaningful if commercial airfares were correlated with the actual cost of providing the service. But they're not; airfares are essentially determined by whatever the airlines' respective revenue management teams think consumers are willing to pay.

We have a winner.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 12):
However, RJs are unpopular on lengthy routes because they generally replaced mainline aircraft, rather than comparing unfavorably to turboprops in terms of product.

Absolutely. This quote of the article is BS marketing drivel.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 13):
Turboprops! The wave of the future!

ROFLMAO!!!
 
diverted
Posts: 1293
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:18 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 40):
Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 8):I challenge our entire forum to name a US airline that might reconsider them.Hawaiian added 3 ATR-42 passenger and is adding 3 ATR-42 cargo props to their operations under the 'Ohana label.

I thought the cargo birds were 72's. At least the two that came from First Air. (N807HC and N810HC)
 
slider
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:23 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 16):
The ATR72-600 can do most of that as well.

Not as fast as the Q400. That's a not insignificant issue when you talk about maximizing utilization of the aircraft.

Quoting codc10 (Reply 19):
At Continental, the Q was a "scope buster" as CO's restrictive pilot contract forbade contract (COEX/Connection) operations with any jets over 50 seats. Turboprops allowed CO to get around the scope issue.

Correct. It also--in theory--was going to help open up capacity in EWR by using 11/29 more. It didn't happen as much as CO envisioned, however. For a slot restricted airport, that would have been a big help to them.
 
747400sp
Posts: 3900
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RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:40 pm

Hello

What ever happened to ATR planned 90 seater? I think it would have been a success in the US market. After the CSeries is on it feet, maybe BBD should into a larger turbo prop in the 100 + passengers class. The Q400 was sold right beside the CRJ, so a turbo prop mate for the CSeries, would not hurt. 2 Europrop International TP400-D6, should be enough power to build a high capacity turbo prop.
 
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Polot
Posts: 10741
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:49 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 47):
What ever happened to ATR planned 90 seater?

Airbus won't approve it.

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 47):
After the CSeries is on it feet, maybe BBD should into a larger turbo prop in the 100 + passengers class.

BBD can't afford it, and with government bailout/investment in the C-series program will be under intense pressure to not compete with itself.

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 47):
2 Europrop International TP400-D6, should be enough power to build a high capacity turbo prop.

Would be complete overkill for a ~100 seat prop.
 
KarlB737
Posts: 2856
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: Turboprops Set For A Big U.S. Comeback?

Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:56 pm

Quoting dc10lover (Thread starter):
European aircraft manufacturer ATR, which is turning to the U.S. as it tries to drum up sales of its turboprop models.

The sales pitch:

Courtesy: USA Today

New Turboprop From ATR Takes To The Skies - Video

http://www.usatoday.com/videos/trave...todayinthesky/2016/05/27/85031548/

28 Pictures

Courtesy: USA Today

Aircraft-Maker Shows Off ATR 72-600 Turboprop At Washington Dulles

http://www.usatoday.com/picture-gall...rop-at-washington-dulles/85181872/

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