Yesterday AM celebrated its first scheduled flight into AMS. The Netherlands is now Mexico's 4th largest trading partner in Europe and approximately 200,000.00 passengers fly between MEX and AMS annually. Amsterdam is obviously a no brainier being a huge hub for Skyteam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hASNfvZhERM

AMS is now on the map:

I wonder what their next destinations will be in the future. Will they ever fly to ICN?

I'm quite surprised to learn they did not already fly there, being a Skyteam hub. I see KL has at least daily nonstop service (looks like double daily a couple days a week). Do AM and KL have a JV, or just the standard Skyteam partnership benefits?

I've always liked AeroMexico's service. Good bunch.

Quoting CHA5Departure (Reply 2): I'm quite surprised to learn they did not already fly there, being a Skyteam hub. I see KL has at least daily nonstop service (looks like double daily a couple days a week). Do AM and KL have a JV, or just the standard Skyteam partnership benefits?

Exactly! Although Europe is notoriously seasonal it was quite surprising they didn't already fly there. Much of it had to do with the lack of right equipment. The 763s were very much penalized when flying to Europe. Only the 762s had the ability to fly there throughout the year from MEX without penalties. The 787s are much better suited to AM's hot-and-high home.

Quoting mugler (Reply 1): I wonder what their next destinations will be in the future. Will they ever fly to ICN?

They should start adding a few more routes next year as they start receiving new 789s. I really think ICN is the right move. In Europe, I really see FRA due to the huge demand of business travel between Germany and Mexico. BCN performed well for them in the past in terms of passenger numbers, but even with an 85% load factor it still lost money for the airline because they couldn't fill up the business class seats.

Here's one more video of the water salute:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5D0IPEAO5Q

[Edited 2016-05-31 19:04:28]

Quoting CHA5Departure (Reply 2): I'm quite surprised to learn they did not already fly there, being a Skyteam hub. I see KL has at least daily nonstop service (looks like double daily a couple days a week). Do AM and KL have a JV, or just the standard Skyteam partnership benefits?

AM codeshares MEX-AMS with Skyteam partners via MAD (UX) and CDG (AF).

In addition AM is a codeshare partner of KL on the 10x/weekly non-stop MEX-AMS route.

With the new 3x/weekly AM flight MEX-AMS, the KL cooperation has been extended to include beyond AMS flights for the first time. But thus far these are primarily to EU capitals:

AMS departures:

08:00 Paris de Gaulle AM 6506 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
09:30 Madrid AM 6502 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
10.10 Mexico City AM6503 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
10:40 Paris de Gaulle AM 6003 - Aeromexico operated by Air France
11:05 Madrid AM 6840 - Aeromexico operated by Air Europe
14:30 Mexico City AM 6501 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
18:15 Madrid AM 6841 - Aeromexico operated by Air Europe
18:45 Paris de Gaulle AM 6026 - Aeromexico operated by Air France
20:25 Rome AM 6518 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
20:30 Paris de Gaulle AM 6025 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
20:35 Vienna AM 6558 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
20:45 Barcelona AM 6510 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
20:50 Geneva AM 6520 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
20:50 Madrid AM 6505 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
20:55 Oslo AM 6556 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
20:55 Lisbon AM 6552 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
20:55 Stockholm AM 6544 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
21:00 Zurich AM 6522 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
21:05 Copenhagen AM 6516 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
21:15 Manchester AM 6554 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
21:20 Glasgow AM 6546 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
21:25 Brussels AM 6542 - Aeromexico operated by KLM
22.35 Mexico City AM26 - Aeromexico B787 non-stop

There is plenty of room for further cooperation with KLM to lots of regional European destinations, but perhaps the Mexican bilaterals need to be adapted first.

Quoting mugler (Reply 1): I wonder what their next destinations will be in the future. Will they ever fly to ICN?

In a sense AMS it's an organic addition between Skyteam hubs. Interestingly enough this is just before AZ starts FCO-MEX; pairing another hub.

There is also room for two carriers to grow, AMS is the 5th Pax destination from MEX in Europe after MAD, CDG, LHR and FRA. MUC is the smallest.

Aside from Europe AMS offers good connections to the Middle East and Africa, so congratulations!

WT

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 4): I really think ICN is the right move. In Europe, I really see FRA due to the huge demand of business travel between Germany and Mexico. BCN performed well for them in the past in terms of passenger numbers, but even with an 85% load factor it still lost money for the airline because they couldn't fill up the business class seats.

I hope ICN is a matter of when and not if. I suppose DL exerts quite a lot of influence on AM in terms of route planning and especially in terms of partners and codesharing; perhaps that is preventing AM and KE from cooperating more closely in terms of launching a route. Or maybe it is only a matter of AM receiving the first 789s, so as to do ICN nonstop from MEX and back.

With respect to Germany, I think AM was too slow to enter this market and now it does not seem auspicious. LH sends the 748i daily from FRA and the A346 6x weekly from MUC, which means the market is well served. AM would have no local partner (they could think outside the box though and seek some form of cooperation with Deutsche Bahn or something). If they wanted to do a cross-alliance partnership with AB, that would mean that DUS or TXL would have to be their destination, and those cities do not really appear to be very viable, do they? HAM probably not either.

Finally, I think BCN is also a matter of when not if. There is a lot of demand. Since Spain is now out of the slump and Mexico is growing slowly but steadily, maybe soon we will see robust business-class demand between MEX and BCN. The 788 is also ideal in terms of cost.

I hope they eventually return to GIG once Brazil recovers from its recession. FCO does not seem likely now that AZ is launching MEX from FCO. Having AM serve MXP would seem unnecessary considering there are many one-stop options via FCO, CDG, AMS, JFK and ATL.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 5): There is plenty of room for further cooperation with KLM to lots of regional European destinations

Definitely. The list you provided includes a good number of important European cities, but there is definitely room for many more.

Quoting mugler (Reply 1): I wonder what their next destinations will be in the future. Will they ever fly to ICN?

I'm also wondering what could be AM's next destination. AM is about to received 3 more Boeing 787., their first -9., 1 in October and one more in November, and the last one, by January of 2017. The first 787-9 comes as a replacement of the first Boeing 777, N776AM which will be stopped by the end of October of 2016. So long haul fleet by winter will be +2.

I hope soon AM can in a way manage to fly daily to LHR and increase frequencies to AMS this same year!

I think ICN and PEK would be places to fly in the near future.

I believe FRA should be started NOW before DLH sends its Airbus 380. There's no way to loose even without connections. AM has flown before with Boeing 767's and TAESA did so with Boeing 767. A 787 operation would be a total success. An entrance to FRA would be something similar to LHR. It's time to give them competition!

BCN could be on the map route way before GIG. Brazil is not in it's best days and Spain has slowly recovered.

I would like to see AM starting CUN-MAD, CUN-CDG, CUN-SCL, CUN-GRU, CUN-AMS and CUN-EZE. The Boeing 787-8 is the best plane ever made and it's time to run some CUN long haul operations even the airport isn't built good enough to create connections.

g77

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 8): The first 787-9 comes as a replacement of the first Boeing 777, N776AM which will be stopped by the end of October of 2016. So long haul fleet by winter will be +2.

Hola Ricardo!. Will AM get rid of all T7s or will they be running a mix of 777s and 787s?

Nice pic in the Challenger cockpit, BTW!

Cheers!
__Ad.

Quoting adriaticus (Reply 9): I believe FRA should be started NOW before DLH sends its Airbus 380. There's no way to loose even without connections. AM has flown before with Boeing 767's and TAESA did so with Boeing 767. A 787 operation would be a total success. An entrance to FRA would be something similar to LHR. It's time to give them competition!

As a geman-mexican I would love that LH gets some competition to MEX. What I would love the most would be a GDL-Europe connection. Sadly the Airport in GDL is not really ready for wide body operation. But they could probably handle an 787-8 pretty well. I am sure a GDL - Euope flight would be a huge success.

Quoting osteogenesis (Reply 10): What I would love the most would be a GDL-Europe connection.

IB has stated that they have GDL-MAD in the pipeline; I'm not sure any other pairing would work.

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 8): I would like to see AM starting CUN-MAD, CUN-CDG, CUN-SCL, CUN-GRU, CUN-AMS and CUN-EZE.

So true, CUN needs to have more long-haul service from AM, specially South America.

Speaking of the Americas, I think AM should look at SJU to buckle the Caribbean and they should serve in Bolivia either LPB or VVI (I always thought AM was going to serve GYE than UIO in Ecuador but there you go).

ASU is probably not happening for a long and MVD could have a healthy load for a smaller plane but it's just too far.

WT

Quoting wingedtaurus (Reply 11): Speaking of the Americas, I think AM should look at SJU to buckle the Caribbean and they should serve in Bolivia either LPB or VVI (I always thought AM was going to serve GYE than UIO in Ecuador but there you go).

I honestly doubt AM would serve SJU... granted, AM launched SDQ but I don't see more destinations in the Caribbean. Bolivia is much less likely. How could AM make VVI work if they cannot make GIG work? That is quite the non-starter.

Quoting wingedtaurus (Reply 11): IB has stated that they have GDL-MAD in the pipeline; I'm not sure any other pairing would work.

I agree that would be the ideal flight to start GDL - Europe. Hope to see it soon. Avoiding MEX and the US would be great. Although in all honesty IB is probably the worst of all major European airlines when it comes to service. Sad that it is not AM the one that starts the service. It is a nice niche that I am sure would work. And from MAD you can have one flight to any other European destination.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 12): I honestly doubt AM would serve SJU...

MX served it for many years with a nonstop from MEX on a 727-200. So it´s not out of the realm of possibility. The problem is the bankrupted economy of Puerto Rico these days.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 12): Bolivia is much less likely. How could AM make VVI work if they cannot make GIG work? That is quite the non-starter.

LAB in its heyday made it work with at IIRC up to 5x. So I suppose a 738 could do the same. Besides, the Bolivian economy is really healthy and there are a lot of Bolivians in Mexico both students and permanent residents.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 12): I honestly doubt AM would serve SJU...

I guess we will have to wait and see how the Y4 CUN-SJU performs.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14): LAB in its heyday made it work with at IIRC up to 5x. So I suppose a 738 could do the same.

I agree, VVI is a bigger market than UIO for example.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14): LAB in its heyday made it work with at IIRC up to 5x.

Flights like that might be one reason LAB is no longer around...

There was talk of Guayaquil being being added to the route map, but nothing official. Not much demand exists between Bolivia and Mexico to warrant non-stop service. With the way things are in the region economically speaking, I don't really see any other destination being opened in the foreseeable future.

Until recently Latin America, and in particular Brazil, were AM's gold mine and responsible for a good portion of AM's profitability. Recently the Latin American network has lost much of its lackluster. In particular danger of being axed being no surprise is Caracas, which according to AM's CEO is only remaining in the network because it is being subsidized by other profitable South American destinations.

http://eleconomista.com.mx/industria...mexico-analiza-su-salida-venezuela

Venezuela is not going to get better anytime soon. Perhaps they should add it as a tag to their Panama service even without 5th freedom rights in order to minimize the red ink. MEX-PTY-CCS was the original and traditional routing since the the service was flown back in the day with their DC-8s. I don't know if this would help, or make things worse for the already poor performer.

I bet they had a gate for their inaugural flight lol

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 8): The Boeing 787-8 is the best plane ever made

Definitely one of the best aircrafts for CUN long-haul service, best ever? Debatable.

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 16): Flights like that might be one reason LAB is no longer around...

Not really. The reason for that was VASP´s mismanagement all around.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 20): Not really. The reason for that was VASP´s mismanagement all around.

VASP sold LAB back to Bolivan hands around 2000. It only maintained control for about five years.

Quoting adriaticus (Reply 9): Hola Ricardo!. Will AM get rid of all T7s or will they be running a mix of 777s and 787s?

Hey Adriaticus!

N776AM is being retired by the end of September. A new Boeing 787-9 will be come in early October. AM is axing Boeing 787 operation to LAX so maybe that will give them more availability until the first B787-9 starts revenue service. Another new Boeing 787-9 will follow in November and one more B787-9 will be delivered in January of 2017. AFAIK, one more Boeing 777 will be retired by 1Q17. I believe the last two Boeing 777 could be retired by the end of the summer of 2017.

Quoting adriaticus (Reply 9): Nice pic in the Challenger cockpit, BTW!

Thanks! My next plane to fly, going for training next month!

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14): LAB in its heyday made it work with at IIRC up to 5x. So I suppose a 738 could do the same.

Is not that AM doesn't want to fly to Bolivia. They would be flying if it was in the range of the Boeing 737. But placing a Boeing 787-8 is just too much. MEX-VVI is 3067NM, a Boeing 737-700/800 range goes from 3000 to 3200 and with HOT AND HIGH MEX, that's just like impossible. I don't think AM would like to place a 787 on the route.

This is where the Boeing 757 should be flying right now...

MEX-YVR
MEX-YYC
MEX-LAX
MEX-ORD
MEX-JFK
MEX-LIM
MEX-VVI
MEX-BOG

No restrictions at all in terms of passengers, cargo, range and cabin comfort. But anyway that's just my arm chair CEO point of view.

Quoting gatibosgru (Reply 19): Definitely one of the best aircrafts for CUN long-haul service, best ever? Debatable.

In terms of RIGHT capacity for Aeromexico, YES. And NO restrictions at all when flying HOT AND HIGH out of MEX, GDL, MTY, TIJ, HMO, CUN, etc.

For other airlines, who knows. Maybe not.

AM had hard times with the Boeing 767-300 as well sometimes even with the B767-200 so many restrictions when out of MEX most because of those small and old engines.

I think many more surprises are ahead in AM.

I would love to see one day soon, AM adding:

MEX-TIJ-PEK 3X
MEX ICN 5X
MEX FRA 7X (before DLH starts sending the Airbus 380 from FRA)
MEX BCN (I believe this route will work better now with Boeing 787 rather than the old B767)

I don't see GIG returning in the short term, maybe by 2020. BCN should come first. FCO is not an option anymore now that AZ will start serving MEX and having all Etihad's support.

CCS for sure won't end this year.

AM could try San Juan Puerto Rico and Varadero.

As for CUN... so much to fly... but the airport is a mess! AM can't have a terminal for their own to have connections!

AM could easily do:

CUN LHR
CUN MAD
CUN CDG
CUN AMS
CUN FCO
CUN FRA
CUN GRU
CUN EZE
CUN SCL

Maybe with the arrival of more Boeing 787s...

I also wonder what would be the chances of filling up a MTY MAD or GDL MAD now that they have the Boeing 787-8?

g77

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 22): Is not that AM doesn't want to fly to Bolivia. They would be flying if it was in the range of the Boeing 737. But placing a Boeing 787-8 is just too much.

Indeed. However it would be interesting to analyze and plan how to connect VVI, ASU and MVD to really have a continental reach. These are not priorities of course, but one wonders. I read some time ago here that AM was planning a MEX-CCS-MVD.

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 22): AM could try San Juan Puerto Rico and Varadero.

I think it's a matter of time now that Volaris has CUN-SJU

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 22): As for CUN... so much to fly...

Spot on, I think MAD is well covered by UX but LON could easily have an extra flight; the amount of Brits visiting CUN is astounding.

If IB is thinking GDL-MEX my bet would be for AM to start thinking MTY-MEX. I think MTY is their other hub no?

Best

WT

Quoting wingedtaurus (Reply 23): I read some time ago here that AM was planning a MEX-CCS-MVD.

I believe it would be better to code share with AR to MVD and ASU.

VVI as I said, if it was within the range of a Boeing 737, AM would fly it. But again, we have H&H MEX difficult to fly out a Boeing 737 to Bolivia fully fueled.

I see GIG maybe in a distant future, but AM has practically covered all LATAM, they need to keep increasing frequencies now.

CUN is already well covered, but AM has the right size aircraft to steal share. But problem for CUN and AM is the terminal. There's no way AM can make a hub there, because there's no terminal exclusive for them or arranged in order to make domestic and international transits.

AM should definitely try again MTY-MAD.

g77

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 24): CUN is already well covered, but AM has the right size aircraft to steal share. But problem for CUN and AM is the terminal. There's no way AM can make a hub there, because there's no terminal exclusive for them or arranged in order to make domestic and international transits.

Other than the terminal, the main issue with CUN is that it is low yield.
AM should have 787 with very low C and large Y to make long haul work out of it. I think they would better have 787 with large C to cater business demand to MEX.

It is not! During the high season, even for us mexicans, rates for CUN from anywhere in the country can be outrageous!

AF, BA, VS and many more legacies are turning their eyes into CUN. I've been told that's the reason why AM has no hub in CUN, it's impossible to make connections and ASUR doesn't gives a peso for that! ASUR doesn't care and they don't want to modify their terminals only for AM.

Not even the super ultra efficient low costs can do a hub in CUN as they wished, if they could, VOI would be already doing point to point routes as they're doing everywhere else.

g77

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 22): N776AM is being retired by the end of September. A new Boeing 787-9 will be come in early October. AM is axing Boeing 787 operation to LAX so maybe that will give them more availability until the first B787-9 starts revenue service. Another new Boeing 787-9 will follow in November and one more B787-9 will be delivered in January of 2017. AFAIK, one more Boeing 777 will be retired by 1Q17. I believe the last two Boeing 777 could be retired by the end of the summer of 2017.

I suppose Frida and Diego will be the last two 77Es to leave. The ex-RG birds should be the first to go.

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 22): This is where the Boeing 757 should be flying right now... MEX-YVR MEX-YYC MEX-LAX MEX-ORD MEX-JFK MEX-LIM MEX-VVI MEX-BOG

We all miss the 752s! However, the 737-8MAX are coming and those will have better range than the NG birds now flying many of those missions.

So, YYC won't happen with oil at current prices, no matter which aircraft type AM has available.

With respect to VVI, I will say it again: If AM cannot make GIG work right now, VVI is just hopeless. There is not sufficient business demand.

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 22): I think many more surprises are ahead in AM.

DL needs to complete the purchase of the 49% ASAP so they can accelerate AM's growth and improve their short- and medium-haul J-class product and catering.

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 22): would love to see one day soon, AM adding: MEX-TIJ-PEK 3X MEX ICN 5X MEX FRA 7X (before DLH starts sending the Airbus 380 from FRA) MEX BCN (I believe this route will work better now with Boeing 787 rather than the old B767) I don't see GIG returning in the short term, maybe by 2020. BCN should come first. FCO is not an option anymore now that AZ will start serving MEX and having all Etihad's support.

I fully agree with you re: BCN. ICN is also a destination that AM should open in cooperation with KE.

AM will probably place its code on AZ's FCO-MEX flight. I wonder if there is room for service to MXP... after all, AZ won't be flying to MEX on a daily basis.

Quoting wingedtaurus (Reply 23): However it would be interesting to analyze and plan how to connect VVI, ASU and MVD to really have a continental reach.

Again, there is no business sense in that. If GIG was cut due to lack of profitability, those three destinations have no chances.

Quoting wingedtaurus (Reply 23): Spot on, I think MAD is well covered by UX but LON could easily have an extra flight; the amount of Brits visiting CUN is astounding.

VS and BA already serve CUN and so do other leisure carriers. AM would have to fight it out for low-yielding pax, and that is probably a very bad idea.

Quoting wingedtaurus (Reply 23): If IB is thinking GDL-MEX my bet would be for AM to start thinking MTY-MEX. I think MTY is their other hub no?

AM has already flown MAD-MTY and the fact that it was discontinued and has not been restated is very telling. I would not hold my breath.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 27): I suppose Frida and Diego will be the last two 77Es to leave. The ex-RG birds should be the first to go.

This is correct! That's gonna be the order! And Frida and Diego will go to PIA. They've already been allocated. RG birds who know where they'll end up.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 27): We all miss the 752s! However, the 737-8MAX are coming and those will have better range than the NG birds now flying many of those missions.

It's true, range will go up 500nm, but still yet not enough to make it to VVI for instance.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 27): So, YYC won't happen with oil at current prices, no matter which aircraft type AM has available.

Sorry, my bad, I meant YYZ and YUL. YYC and YEG could work again without visas!

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 27): DL needs to complete the purchase of the 49% ASAP so they can accelerate AM's growth and improve their short- and medium-haul J-class product and catering.

Yes, please!!!

g77

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 28): Sorry, my bad, I meant YYZ and YUL

How's YYZ performing? I think AM changed the times and now the MEX-YYZ segment is a redeye.

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 22): This is where the Boeing 757 should be flying right now... MEX-YVR MEX-YYC MEX-LAX MEX-ORD MEX-JFK MEX-LIM MEX-VVI MEX-BOG No restrictions at all in terms of passengers, cargo, range and cabin comfort. But anyway that's just my arm chair CEO point of view.

I agree one can only dream.... the 757 and the 717 were the perfect Aircraft for Mexico hot and high...

TRB

ghost77 wrote:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 27):I suppose Frida and Diego will be the last two 77Es to leave. The ex-RG birds should be the first to go.
This is correct! That's gonna be the order! And Frida and Diego will go to PIA. They've already been allocated. RG birds who know where they'll end up.

Do you have any idea when Frida and Diego will assume new role with PIA? These two birds tops pia biding process.

http://www.piac.com.pk/cms/BidReports/1 ... rcraft.pdf

How did the AZ FCO-MEX go?