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seahawk
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RE: Will 3-4-3 Be More Comfortable On The B777-9?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:17 am

Quoting anrec80 (Reply 49):

It IS bad. And I personally think things like this should be out-regulated for scheduled flights longer than 4-5 hours. Extra dense seating has sense in certain corner cases such as flights within a large country that need to be very cheap or even subsidized (routes like YVR, SVO-VVO, LAX-HNL come to mind), or mass-tourist market in Europe where large numbers of people need to be shuttled for 3-4 hours to Egypt or Turkey and back.

It is self regulating. If people buy the tickets it works, if they do not it does not. For many it is a bigger improvement of their life to be able to afford a flight than to have 1" more seat width and 2" more legroom.

[Edited 2016-06-06 00:12:59]
 
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neutrino
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RE: Will 3-4-3 Be More Comfortable On The B777-9?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:25 am

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 48):
The passenger sitting in the seat next to my brother was a very tall and big man who needed the extra leg room but had lots of trouble with the extra narrow seat.

People of size, especially those who have flown before, should take the trouble to find out about the seat width & pitch of the airline's plane they will be travelling on. It pays to pay a bit more to a carrier whose seatings accord them that little more room. Yeah, should, but would they? Even in this connected age where the info one wants is at the fingertips?
While on persons of size, I wonder how those hulking wrestlers like on the WWE roster get around by air. I mean those around 2 metres (6'6") in height and tipping the scales at let's say, in the region of 136kg (300lbs) and above. I assume the established stars with their considerable pay packages would be flying J or F, but what about the jobbers who earn a relative pittance? If on Y, only the exit rows? How about the really bulky ones? People with the girth of like the late Yokozuna and Mabel/Viscera/Big Daddy V; even the "slimmer' ones such as Fatu, Earthquake, King Kong Bundy and the Big Show? I guess even J class might not fit some of the bigger butts. The poorer oversized wrestlers would have to settle for two Y seats in exit row?
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: Will 3-4-3 Be More Comfortable On The B777-9?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:03 am

Quoting neutrino (Reply 51):
The poorer oversized wrestlers would have to settle for two Y seats in exit row?

But that won't work, because the exit row arm rests don't fold up due to the tray tables that are stored there.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Will 3-4-3 Be More Comfortable On The B777-9?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:13 am

Quoting trex8 (Reply 36):
Wasnt Air Asia X using 9 across on their A333 to Europe from SE Asia and Phillipines have 9 across A333 to mideast.

Yes and yes.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
dare100em
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RE: Will 3-4-3 Be More Comfortable On The B777-9?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:18 am

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 32):
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 31):
And yet the average 787 9-abreast seat (17") is smaller than the average 777 10-abreast seat (17.2").

This confuses me a little. All the literature out there shows that the 787 should be more comfortable than the 777, yet we see airline installing seats that are the same or have even worse seat widths in the 787. Either airlines have wider aisles in the 787 or the usable space for the seats is smaller in the real world configurations for airlines.

The main reason is that the 787 is 3-3-3 vs. 3-4-3 in the 777. As consequence the 777 is better set-up for the passage between toilets/service-areas and the aisles. This means you always have to "curve in/wiggle" from the toilets to the aisles in the 787.

If you make the 787seats wider the problem would get even worse. With 3-4-3 the aisles are automaticially "optimal" placed and there is no need for turning/curving between service area and/or toilets and the aisles. We have to think about the fact that the 787 was originally designed with 2-4-2 in mind - at least as an non negligible option.

This plus (slightly) wider armrests lead to the fact that the 787 only reaches the same level as the 777 at 10-abreast, but with typically wider aisles.
 
RohanDXB
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RE: Will 3-4-3 Be More Comfortable On The B777-9?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:33 am

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 48):
Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 46):
And keep in mind the "real estate" on an airplane is vastly more expensive, per square foot, than anywhere on the ground.

That sums it up. How much are people willing to pay for space and what are there expectations to come back?


Airplanes are such expensive land used by people who usually only fly a little. Where as sporting events profit most by repeat 'fans.' No repeat flight fan is Y (well, not typically), that is J. They're shopping on price.

Quoting Armodeen (Reply 45):
Are you kidding? Loads of my friends get off Etihad (77W served) or EK (transition to 77W from A380) and tell me how horrible their flight was. Plenty of 'worst flight ever' and 'never again' type comments. Many are shocked at the lack or space as their expectations were high due to hype.

How many fly them again? I know I've said 'never again' and then, when clicking to compare, I went again. For example, I had such *horrid* service on one of the US3, I swore I wouldn't fly them again. But next time it came to fly, any alternative required many more hours away from family, so I flew them again (was disappointed by the service).

I've learned certain things people say shouldn't be listened to. Usually "never again."

Lightsaber

This
After every FlyDubai flight from Riyadh to Dubai, when the 90 minute flight is delayed by another 60 mins, I say to myself "never again". When my back & neck start to hurt from the immovable headrest, I say to myself "never again". I'd rather fly Emirates.

Come next booking, I check the fares and FlyDubai costs 300 euros while Emirates is close to 650. I think I can suffer that little bit of discomfort.

Living in Dubai, 3-4-3 is the norm and you pretty much come to accept a certain lack of space when flying. You can mitigate it some by choosing an aisle seat & the IFE helps tremendously.
What I cannot tolerate is the 3-3-3 on the 787 which, when combined with the damn IFE box below the seat in front, is a complete nightmare. I will always go out of my way to avoid it.

Ro
 
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neutrino
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RE: Will 3-4-3 Be More Comfortable On The B777-9?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:41 am

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 52):

Quoting neutrino (Reply 51):
The poorer oversized wrestlers would have to settle for two Y seats in exit row?

But that won't work, because the exit row arm rests don't fold up due to the tray tables that are stored there.

That slipped my mind.    . Also, now that I think of it, due to their extreme proportions, they might not be allowed there as they could possibly be a hindrance in an emergency.
So the horizontally overgenerous but vertically not of skyscrapper stature could have two seats in the standard Y section but those who are both exceptionally tall and wide have no recourse but to go premium...most likely F.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
SYDSpotter
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RE: Will 3-4-3 Be More Comfortable On The B777-9?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:47 am

Some people have very short memories, some will complain how bad their 3-4-3 experience on a B777 or their 3-3-3 experience on an A330, but as soon as it's time to book their next trip, all is forgotten when they choose the least expensive option and end up in 3-4-3 land again.

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 35):
The real horror is of course the 9 abreast A330/A340. But I don't think that is on offer except for relatively short charter jumps.

D7 offer a 9 abreast on their 9 hour KUL-Australia A330 segments.

Quoting rheinwaldner (Reply 20):
Where I look, Boeing is slowly gaining a reputation for subpar passenger comfort.

Good thing Boeing sells to the airlines and not the passengers then   

Ultimately passengers will vote with their wallets. Despite the bad rep EK gets with their 3-4-3 777's, they're still recording pretty healthy loads and profits.
319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_788_789
 
Armodeen
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RE: Will 3-4-3 Be More Comfortable On The B777-9?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:49 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 47):

Of course they fly again. The expression 'never again' has come to be less of a promise to not do something again, more of an expression of extreme displeasure at the experience. We live in a figurative world! What my friends and colleagues generally do though is spend a bit more time researching the options and not just believing the hype.

I am a bit stuck myself to be honest, I have 2 job possibilities, one will require regular flights on a 787 and the other a 777. Since I will be in Y about 65% of the time, I am between a small and smaller place  
 
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Spiderguy252
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RE: Will 3-4-3 Be More Comfortable On The B777-9?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:49 am

Stick to Airbus.

Now there's a manufacturer who have somehow crafted planes that aren't too hard on passengers.

A330/A340 > B777
A320 > B737
A380 > B747
A350 > B787
Vahroone
 
OB1504
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RE: Will 3-4-3 Be More Comfortable On The B777-9?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:46 pm

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 32):
Either airlines have wider aisles in the 787 or the usable space for the seats is smaller in the real world configurations for airlines.

I think it's the aisles. I had never flown on a 3-4-3 777 until this year and thought the concerns were typical A.net hyperbole until I wandered into the Y cabin. I'm about average built and yet this is the only aircraft in which I've had to walk down the aisle sideways to avoid bumping people sitting in the aisle seats. It looks incredibly cramped.
 
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enzo011
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RE: Will 3-4-3 Be More Comfortable On The B777-9?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:03 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 60):
I think it's the aisles. I had never flown on a 3-4-3 777 until this year and thought the concerns were typical A.net hyperbole until I wandered into the Y cabin. I'm about average built and yet this is the only aircraft in which I've had to walk down the aisle sideways to avoid bumping people sitting in the aisle seats. It looks incredibly cramped.

Which raises an interesting point, will the airlines use the extra few inches from the 777X for wider seats or wider aisles? Seeing as a thought on here is that airlines do not really care about comfort on passengers in Y (passengers are happy to pay for the 17.2" wide seats, why reward them with something wider) you would figure the extra space could go to the aisles to assist their employees rather than add comfort for passengers.
 
tjh8402
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RE: Will 3-4-3 Be More Comfortable On The B777-9?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:16 pm

I have never flown long haul international, but I just finished a 5+ hour flight on a DL 757 in W, which has the same supposedly horrific 17" seat as the 9Y 787 and 10Y 777 and I found it perfectly acceptable for that flight. I wasn't jumping to get off at the end so I don't see where a few hours more would be a problem. I flew on an E170 immediately afterward which has the extra inch of width and I really didn't notice a difference. Nor do I recall my flights on A320s being that much more comfortable. I was in a bulkhead row, which mean a fixed armrest, which I actually rather liked since it kept my seatmate out of my space. I don't see where the extra inch of width would make that big of a difference in comfort over the long haul either. What I would've wanted was more recline to go with the comfortable legroom.

I've queried friends and family who are not avgeeks on if they notice differences in comfort between the Boeing and Airbus narrowbodies and no one does. My boyfriend actually said he thought the AA 738 was more comfortable than the AA 321. When I told him the 321 had bigger seats, he shrugged and said he didn't notice and was more comfortable on the 737.

Quoting anrec80 (Reply 49):
Yeah, but we aren't living in 60s! Gotta be doing at least a bit better than at that time!

How many planes in the 60s had the PTVs, AVOD, and other IFE options that you enjoy on most international flights today?
 
AirbusA6
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RE: Will 3-4-3 Be More Comfortable On The B777-9?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:25 pm

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 62):
I have never flown long haul international, but I just finished a 5+ hour flight on a DL 757 in W, which has the same supposedly horrific 17" seat as the 9Y 787 and 10Y 777 and I found it perfectly acceptable for that flight.

It's the combination of factors, the seat width, armrest width AND aisle width. And double the flight length as well

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 62):
How many planes in the 60s had the PTVs, AVOD, and other IFE options that you enjoy on most international flights today?

Flights back then had more legroom, people are fatter/taller now and planes didn't have the range either, so long haul flights would be making regular refuelling stops where you would get off to stretch your legs
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)

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