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qf789
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QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:49 pm

Qantas CEO Alan Joyce has described the airlines' forthcoming Boeing 787-9 as being blessed with "a very luxurious configuration" to match the very long-range routes which the Dreamliner will fly.


Possible routes include MEL-DFW, BNE-DFW, SYD-ORD and PER-LHR

They're all on the list and it depends on the support we get from the various governments to what network we actually settle on" Joyce told media on the sidelines of the International Air Transport Association (IATA) conference in Dublin this week.


On configuration

"You'll see a very luxurious configuration, and it's there for the distances that were flying" Joyce expanded.

"There will be a big business class and a big premium economy cabin", and while the economy seats will be nine-across in a 3-3-3 arrangement, Joyce promises "we will be giving some very good seat pitch for economy seats given the the lengths we’ll be flying."


One possible configuration could be 42 business, 28 premium economy and 165 economy, a total of 235 seats

http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-ceo-p...luxurious-boeing-787-configuration

Possible economy seating, see link below

http://www.ausbt.com.au/is-this-qantas-boeing-787-economy-seat
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Richard28
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:52 pm

Quoting qf789 (Thread starter):
economy seats will be nine-across in a 3-3-3 arrangement

was hoping "luxurious" would not mean this!
 
winginit
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:00 pm

It will be interesting to see for how much longer carriers can get away with a focus on seat pitch while quietly sweeping seat width declines under the rug. Wouldn't be surprised if we get a new metric that incorporates both in the near future.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:04 pm

A premium heavy configuration will make sure the trip shall be profitable.

Quoting qf789 (Thread starter):
Possible economy seating, see link below

http://www.ausbt.com.au/is-this-qant...-seat

Please note this is just a speculative article. Seats have not been confirmed yet.

Quoting qf789 (Thread starter):

very luxurious
3-3-3 arrangement

  
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BaconButty
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:12 pm

Quoting qf789 (Thread starter):
787 ... luxurious ... 3-3-3 arrangement
Three phrases that should never exist in close proximity.

[Edited 2016-06-02 07:27:32]
Down with that sort of thing!
 
Sooner787
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:17 pm

A while back, our QF rep said the DFW- Australia flight would switch to 789's

once they had enough on property. Question now is would that be the SYD flight,
or SYD and MEL ?    
 
luftaom
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:29 pm

9 abreast 787s and 10 abreast 777s are absolutely horrible.
airliners.net's passenger - simultaneously connecting and flying direct.
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:52 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 5):
Question now is would that be the SYD flight,
or SYD and MEL ?

Both. The 789 is exactly what they need for DFW -- lots of premium seats, lots of space for cargo and enough range to operate with a full payload every day of the year into SYD and most days into MEL without compromising on fuel costs.

It would also allow them to rotate aircraft across DFW rather than flying SYD-MEL positioning flights.
 
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Stitch
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:37 pm

Well if they go with the Thompson Aero, QF's 787s will have more shoulder and elbow room in Economy than their A380s.   

I'm a broad-shouldered man so 17" or 18" seat width wouldn't mean much to me, either way. But I am also a tall man so 31" or 35" (raw speculation) of legroom would.


As an aside, I am surprised so many a.netters have a Body Mass Index that perfectly matches an 18" seat.  
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:39 pm

Great to hear.

I bet they end up replacing the DFW-SYD A380 (Which is doing very well) with two flights.

DFW-SYD and DFW-MEL with the 789.
Whatever
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:50 pm

Quoting FriscoHeavy (Reply 9):
I bet they end up replacing the DFW-SYD A380 (Which is doing very well) with two flights.

DFW-SYD and DFW-MEL with the 789.

If that happens, I hope it happens AFTER March 2017.

I have an elderly couple that paid $16k plus per person
to fly the whale first class to SYD then on to AKL for a New Zealand tour.

They'd be amazed but not amused if DFW loses 380 service   
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:53 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 10):
If that happens, I hope it happens AFTER March 2017.

The 789s won't be delivered until late next year.
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:54 pm

Quoting FriscoHeavy (Reply 9):
I bet they end up replacing the DFW-SYD A380 (Which is doing very well) with two flights.

DFW-SYD and DFW-MEL with the 789.

Given that prospect, I'd be interested to know what portion of the traffic onboard DFW-SYD is continuing on to MEL, or beyond-MEL markets for which MEL is not really "out of the way" compared to connecting in SYD (the largest being ADL and PER)?
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:58 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 10):
If that happens, I hope it happens AFTER March 2017.

I have an elderly couple that paid $16k plus per person
to fly the whale first class to SYD then on to AKL for a New Zealand tour.

I'll be flying AKL-SYD-DFW on the 380 in February 2017. I paid for my seat selection and am really excited to be going on this flight -- though I'll be in Economy.

It appears the 380 is safe for March 2017  
Whatever
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:13 pm

I've learned to live with the 17.5 inch seat. That's what I crossed the Pacific in back in the days of the 707 and survived. What I hate is the reduced legroom of today's econobox seating. I would be much more appreciative of the increased seat pitch. One of the worst aspects of a middle seat is getting to the aisle to go to the lav or just to stretch your legs. Extra pitch makes this much less unpleasant.
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parapente
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:49 pm

Well will be intrigued to see whether the Thompson seat does happen.I always thought it was a very clever idea.I am sure someone on this forum said that they did not happen because they interfered with the exit regulations (speed?).
But they do give extra shoulder room which (for me) is important on a 17.5" seat.
BA should perhaps take note......
 
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Stitch
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:05 pm

Quoting parapente (Reply 15):
But they do give extra shoulder room which (for me) is important on a 17.5" seat.
BA should perhaps take note......

BA have already announced they are installing wider Economy class seats on the 787-9 fleet.
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:10 pm

Quoting qf789 (Thread starter):
"You'll see a very luxurious configuration, and it's there for the distances that were flying" Joyce expanded.

"There will be a big business class and a big premium economy cabin", and while the economy seats will be nine-across in a 3-3-3 arrangement,

I'm glad to see QF go for that "luxurious" 9-across in economy!      
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winginit
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:30 pm

Quoting FriscoHeavy (Reply 9):
Great to hear.

I bet they end up replacing the DFW-SYD A380 (Which is doing very well) with two flights.

DFW-SYD and DFW-MEL with the 789.

If that's the case my bet would be on one of those 789s being operated by AA as part of their JV.
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:34 pm

So no more F-Class in these birds. They will be quite low density. It is exciting to think what new routes these planes will be used for.
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:40 pm

Quoting winginit (Reply 18):
If that's the case my bet would be on one of those 789s being operated by AA as part of their JV.

I'd say AA is more likely to operate DFW-BNE or DFW-AKL.
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:04 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
As an aside, I am surprised so many a.netters have a Body Mass Index that perfectly matches an 18" seat.

  

Indeed. And who's posteriors are so sensitive that they're able to measure a 0.5" difference with that extremity alone, and so accurately that it goes from being 'torturous' to 'luxurious' . . .

Regards,

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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:29 pm

Quoting nikeherc (Reply 14):
I am sure someone on this forum said that they did not happen because they interfered with the exit regulations (speed?).

My thought has always been that the Thompson seat allows you to get a leg across those in the seat next to you easily before moving your torso behind the seat ahead. Since the Thompson seat frame does not recline and remains upright the whole process is much easier. From my perspective the Thompson staggered seats are all pluses.
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:03 pm

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 21):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
As an aside, I am surprised so many a.netters have a Body Mass Index that perfectly matches an 18" seat.

  

Indeed. And who's posteriors are so sensitive that they're able to measure a 0.5" difference with that extremity alone, and so accurately that it goes from being 'torturous' to 'luxurious' . . .

Its such a fallacy that Boeing is not chasing it at all either...right? Airbus has done a trick on the whole industry, where you have their competitor chasing the same seat width, and airlines installing wider seats. All this because it doesn't matter other than on here...    
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:06 pm

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 21):
Indeed. And who's posteriors are so sensitive that they're able to measure a 0.5" difference with that extremity alone, and so accurately that it goes from being 'torturous' to 'luxurious' . . .

Is it 0.5"? The average 787 seat appears to be 16.9/17", versus 18", makes it 1" difference.
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:16 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 24):
Is it 0.5"? The average 787 seat appears to be 16.9/17", versus 18", makes it 1" difference.

I'm assuming he's referring to the A350 in comparison. The A350 is 5" wider than the 787. 5/9 = 0.56" additional width per seat , not 1". Also remember that thinner armrests are used to make up for the additional width.
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:21 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 25):
I'm assuming he's referring to the A350 in comparison. The A350 is 5" wider than the 787. 5/9 = 0.56" additional width per seat , not 1". Also remember that thinner armrests are used to make up for the additional width.

So what you are saying is that Airbus uses as thin as possible armrests but Boeing uses thicker armrests to make the seats more uncomfortable? Or do they both use the same width armrests (as thin as possible) and the shape of the A350 and 787 allows for the difference in seat widths as much as the armrests?
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:36 pm

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 26):
So what you are saying is that Airbus uses as thin as possible armrests but Boeing uses thicker armrests to make the seats more uncomfortable?

In a way, yes. But this is only something I've noticed only on the A350 ACAP. The other airbus Airbus aircraft (A380, A330 and A320) use the similar 2 inch armrests that Boeing uses in their ACAPs for their standard configuration. The A350 uses 1.5 inch armrests for its standard configuration. But of course, it all depends on what the airline chooses.
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:52 pm

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 26):
So what you are saying is that Airbus uses as thin as possible armrests but Boeing uses thicker armrests to make the seats more uncomfortable?

Adding to what 817Dreamliner has already mentioned above, early Airbus promotional materials for the A350XWB also mentioned a 17.5 inch seat cushion width, reflecting the 5 inch wider cabin while using 2 inch wide armrests. Airbus then shrunk the armrests to 1.5 inches in the ACAP to widen the seat cushion (and the ACAP measures that width in the middle of the armrest so the actual seat cushion is probably less than 18 inches in width).
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:50 pm

Hmmmmmmmm

Quoting qf789 (Thread starter):
very luxurious configuration

And

Quoting qf789 (Thread starter):
the economy seats will be nine-across in a 3-3-3 arrangement

Stop it! You are spoiling the economy pax  
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:04 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 27):
In a way, yes. But this is only something I've noticed only on the A350 ACAP. The other airbus Airbus aircraft (A380, A330 and A320) use the similar 2 inch armrests that Boeing uses in their ACAPs for their standard configuration. The A350 uses 1.5 inch armrests for its standard configuration. But of course, it all depends on what the airline chooses.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 28):
Adding to what 817Dreamliner has already mentioned above, early Airbus promotional materials for the A350XWB also mentioned a 17.5 inch seat cushion width, reflecting the 5 inch wider cabin while using 2 inch wide armrests. Airbus then shrunk the armrests to 1.5 inches in the ACAP to widen the seat cushion (and the ACAP measures that width in the middle of the armrest so the actual seat cushion is probably less than 18 inches in width).

Do you have the 787 ACAP to show the 2 inches armrests though? I find the 787 ACAP document on the Boeing website, but it doesn't specify armrest size at all, only that the 3 seats are 1.51m or 59.6" wide. Airbus lists their 3 seats as 1.53m or 60.11" wide with the 1.5" armrests. Interestingly if you add all the measurements on the A350 ACAP you get to 5.51m. So there is 15cms missing from the cabin width on the A350. That would correspond to the 0.5" per armrest, or an extra 0.7" per seat.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:08 pm

To fly the longer routes that they are talking about the config will need to be lighter, so a more "luxurious" layout will be a good way of delivering that.

Interestingly though, if it did end up at a 235 seat count, 2 x daily 789 flights (1 x SYD, 1 X MEL) would actually be less than the A380 can seat, but I am not sure on the restrictions that they operate with on the SYD-DFW route currently.

I just love how it appears QF's competitive spirit is once again making its corporate decisions via the highest bidder by making state govts "show me the money"  
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:15 pm

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 31):
Interestingly though, if it did end up at a 235 seat count, 2 x daily 789 flights (1 x SYD, 1 X MEL) would actually be less than the A380 can seat, but I am not sure on the restrictions that they operate with on the SYD-DFW route currently.

I doubt the A380 is going off of SYD-DFW. If anything the 789 will go to SYD-SFO, to make it daily, and probably somewhere like HKG on the second daily rotation or maybe HND. That would leave enough spare to add a MEL-DFW service and/or make SYD-YVR a year round route. But in terms of A380's those routes that are currently A380's I'd imagine will stay A380.
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:25 pm

Please QF do yourself and your pax a favor and don't hire the "brilliant" Aussie designer Marc Newson again!   ...

Qantas Reveals A380 Cabin Photos (by SInGAPORE_AIR May 12 2008 in Civil Aviation)
 
Viscount724
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:37 pm

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 4):
Quoting qf789 (Thread starter):
787 ... luxurious ... 3-3-3 arrangement
Three phrases that should never exist in close proximity.

The phrases "luxurious" and "economy class" (regardless of aircraft type and configuration) should never be used together.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 16):
BA have already announced they are installing wider Economy class seats on the 787-9 fleet.

How do make the seats wider on a 787 that's already 9-abreast? If it means making the armrests narrower it's no improvement as you're still just as close to the person next to you. There can't be much if any room to make the aisles narrower than they already are.
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:52 pm

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 33):
Please QF do yourself and your pax a favor and don't hire the "brilliant" Aussie designer Marc Newson again!   ...

Qantas Reveals A380 Cabin Photos (by SInGAPORE_AIR May 12 2008 in Civil Aviation)

I actually like the QF A380 cabin and the colours. I'd be happy to have him design them again. Having said that

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 34):
The phrases "luxurious" and "economy class" (regardless of aircraft type and configuration) should never be used together.

If you want luxury you need to pay for it. Economy class travellers whinging about lack of room while buying cheap tickets can, frankly, suck it. So hopefully the new A330 Business Seats and an updates Premium Economy seat go into the 789's.
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:10 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 35):
I actually like the QF A380 cabin and the colours. I'd be happy to have him design them again. Having said that

I and almost all of those who replied to that thread don't! Obviously it's impossible to please/displease everyone.
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:20 am

So, no F on the 787. Seems BA are the only ones who are going to do it.
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:35 am

Quoting winginit (Reply 2):
It will be interesting to see for how much longer carriers can get away with a focus on seat pitch while quietly sweeping seat width declines under the rug

Especially as people, especially USAmericans, get fatter.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:37 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 31):

I agree. I've never understood why people are so certain that DFW is going 2x789. As well as a decrese in capacity it would also be a substantial increase in CASM (sorry CASK). While the 789 won't be weight restricted on the return, I still think the A380 would come out tops overall.

SFO, YVR and 2xHKG (instead of 747+332) would be my guesses for the early routes. Longer term I could see increasing SCL to 5/6/7 weekly would also be on the agenda once EDTO 330 approval is granted by CASA.
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FriscoHeavy
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:50 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 39):
I've never understood why people are so certain that DFW is going 2x789

I'm not certain, but hypothesizing based on various information and reports -- some of which is coming directly from the QF CEO. The 787 was meant for these types of routes. While I love seeing the A380 coming in here and hope it continues, I think a strong argument can be made for splitting up the SYD-DFW route into multiple routes using smaller aircraft.

Using the 787, they will be able to take less (if any) weight restrictions and haul more cargo. The math would most likely work in favor of using the 787 to points such as DFW-BNE and DFW-MEL as CEO stated.

I'm not confident we'll get all 3 routes, but I'd be very surprised if DFW-SYD wasn't coupled with at least one more Aussie route.
Whatever
 
FriscoHeavy
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:52 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 39):
As well as a decrese in capacity it would also be a substantial increase in CASM (sorry CASK). While the 789 won't be weight restricted on the return, I still think the A380 would come out tops overall.

Plus, all reports are that the QF flight for SYD-DFW is doing very well since it can connect passengers with AA.

I can't wait to fly the route myself -- it will be exciting to say I've been on one of the longest flights in the world (mileage wise).
Whatever
 
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enzo011
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:23 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 35):
If you want luxury you need to pay for it. Economy class travellers whinging about lack of room while buying cheap tickets can, frankly, suck it. So hopefully the new A330 Business Seats and an updates Premium Economy seat go into the 789's.

Where do you draw the line on when you can complain and when you can't? If I pay for a sale fare, obviously I can be treated like lowlife scum and I deserve it. If I pay full fare economy, do I then have a right to complain? What if I have to travel around Christmas and pay double the "normal" price for a ticket (and triple the sales fares) am I worthy to complain?
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:45 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 35):
Economy class travellers whinging about lack of room while buying cheap tickets can, frankly, suck it.

      


Quoting enzo011 (Reply 42):
Where do you draw the line on when you can complain and when you can't? If I pay for a sale fare, obviously I can be treated like lowlife scum and I deserve it. If I pay full fare economy, do I then have a right to complain? What if I have to travel around Christmas and pay double the "normal" price for a ticket (and triple the sales fares) am I worthy to complain?

It's not so much about whether you "can" complain, it's how much anyone will care to hear it and address it.
The more you pay, the more likely they will.

Applies to most things in life really.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Sydscott
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:54 am

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 42):
Where do you draw the line on when you can complain and when you can't? If I pay for a sale fare, obviously I can be treated like lowlife scum and I deserve it. If I pay full fare economy, do I then have a right to complain? What if I have to travel around Christmas and pay double the "normal" price for a ticket (and triple the sales fares) am I worthy to complain?

If you fly in economy it doesn't matter how much you have paid because you know exactly what you're getting. So while I have some sympathy for people who travel at peak times and pay lots more, (I do the trip to Perth every year at Christmas so can relate), at the end of the day it's still economy and you have no right to complain about the seat and the space if that's what you have chosen to fly.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 43):
It's not so much about whether you "can" complain, it's how much anyone will care to hear it and address it.
The more you pay, the more likely they will.

Applies to most things in life really.

And the higher your status with the airline, the more likely they will which comes back to how much $$$ you've spend with them.
 
flybyguy
Posts: 1416
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:52 pm

RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:17 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 22):
Quoting nikeherc (Reply 14):
I am sure someone on this forum said that they did not happen because they interfered with the exit regulations (speed?).

My thought has always been that the Thompson seat allows you to get a leg across those in the seat next to you easily before moving your torso behind the seat ahead. Since the Thompson seat frame does not recline and remains upright the whole process is much easier. From my perspective the Thompson staggered seats are all pluses.

I admit that the Cozy Suite is a clever idea and would love to see it be successful. However, I presume, on top of any regulatory hurdles regarding installation of the Cozy Suite namely interpretation of 14CFR25.813, 25.810 etc. each Cozy Suite installation/arrangement may warrant a full scale evacuation tests due to the non-standard staggered seat passageways and non-standard cross-aisle and exit passageway configurations. That's of significant cost to airlines, OEMs and MROs. Furthermore there is significant risk that if the naive subjects cannot depart the aircraft in the regulatory allotted time in 14CFR 25.803, the seating arrangement may be invalidated altogether. I also presume from the renderings of the Cozy Suite that the seats are probably heavier than a standard economy class seat because of the additional structure required to perform comparably a standard seat in structural testing (i.e. discontinuous seat beams, staggered legs, etc.). Not to say that such a seat isn't certifiable, but it will likely take a significant effort to get them into revenue service.

I'm not sure if airlines are willing to spend the money or effort on the "cheap" seats. They do this sort of thing routinely for their flagship J and F products which individually pull thousands of dollars per flight versus hundreds for Y and Y+ seats.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
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sunrisevalley
Posts: 5392
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:35 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 34):
How do make the seats wider on a 787 that's already 9-abreast?

Use Thompson Cozy Suite.

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 45):
I admit that the Cozy Suite is a clever idea and would love to see it be successful. However, I presume, on top of any regulatory hurdles regarding installation of the Cozy Suite namely interpretation of 14CFR25.813, 25.810 etc. each Cozy Suite installation/arrangement may warrant a full scale evacuation tests due to the non-standard staggered seat passageways and non-standard cross-aisle and exit passageway configurations

Come on , give Thompson some credit please. Do you think they have gone this far with this concept without knowing the exact answers to the questions you raise? No carrier would give them the time of day without satisfactory answers.
 
Hamlet69
Posts: 2540
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 2:45 am

RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:36 am

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 23):
Its such a fallacy that Boeing is not chasing it at all either...right? Airbus has done a trick on the whole industry, where you have their competitor chasing the same seat width

Could be. Probably the same trick Boeing has played to get the industry to believe that they have the best interiors, which is why Airbus is trying hard to catch up, including the new 'Airspace by Airbus' marketing concept. . .

Which is exactly what this is - marketing. Of course it sounds better to say "We have a wider seat than the other guy." And of course, Boeing is going to try and challenge that. Doesn't mean the passenger is going to notice the slightest difference. And it certainly doesn't influence airline's buying decision, although a certain percentage of the A.net population thinks so.


Regards,

Hamlet69
All gave some. Some gave all.
 
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817Dreamliiner
Posts: 3520
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RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:53 am

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 30):
Do you have the 787 ACAP to show the 2 inches armrests though? I find the 787 ACAP document on the Boeing website, but it doesn't specify armrest size at all, only that the 3 seats are 1.51m or 59.6" wide.

No, I don't. but if you look at the 777 ACAP it shows the 2 inch armrest for the 3 seats that are 59 inches wide for the 3-4-3 configuration. So you can figure it out easily based on that, other wise the seats would be around 17.87 inches if the armrest was 1.5 for example.

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 30):
Interestingly if you add all the measurements on the A350 ACAP you get to 5.51m. So there is 15cms missing from the cabin width on the A350. That would correspond to the 0.5" per armrest, or an extra 0.7" per seat.

Well, I got around 10cm or 4 inches of extra space. Now this is the interesting part as you will notice the same thing on the other Airbus widebodies. Based on my own experience of flying the A330 in Y(8 abreast), that extra space is between the the sidewalls and the armrest of the window seats, which when compared to the Boeing aircraft I've flown in Y is always larger (ie 2 inches for the A330 which corresponds to their ACAP and around 1 inch for the 777 for example(9 abreast)). On the 787 that distance is about 0.6 inches based on the ACAP.

Now this is my opinion based on the above, but I believe that the "cramped" feeling is more based on how much the space is between the sidewalls and the seats rather than the actual seat width itself. Which then leads to this:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 34):
How do make the seats wider on a 787 that's already 9-abreast?

The answer would be to do the same as airbus does on the A350. Use thinner armrests (1.5 inch) which would allow the same 60in row of 3 seats to be used. Also you can reduce the aisles to 17 inches to increase the distance between the window seat armrest and the sidewall. But of course, people will probably still complain just because it a 9 abreast 787, regardless of it having 18 inch seats.
I'll wake from the dream, To keep and relive, Now life it is a dream, And dream's on a... BREAK!
 
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9MMPD
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:30 pm

RE: QF CEO Promises Very Luxurious 787-9 Configuration

Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:26 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 37):
So, no F on the 787. Seems BA are the only ones who are going to do it.

CZ also have F on their 787s

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