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QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:17 am

Many different reports coming in from the IATA conference on Twitter and http://aviationweek.com/iata-agm-201...ys-walks-away-first-airbus-a320neo

Quote:

Qatar Airways has walked away from its first Airbus A320neo and may cancel more of the type if Pratt & Whitney do not resolve the issues with PW1100G quickly, Qatar CEO Akbar Al Baker said.

The airline, originally expected to be the launch operator for the aircraft, should by now have had five A320neos in service. Their absence “has a huge impact on my bottom line," Al Baker said adding, “we are screaming.” The airline wants to “imminently open discussions” with CFM International about switching to Leap-1A-powered aircraft and is also considering leasing additional aircraft to bridge the gap.

Qatar Airways refused to take delivery of its first A320neo last December (Aviation Daily, Dec. 9, 2015). Several issues still need to be sorted out, among them ETOPS clearance, and the aircraft is limited only to Category 1 landings, Al Baker said. “We want absolute flexibility, but now we cannot fly into many destinations.” He warned that “they only have a short window to address this.”

So is this just a temper tantrum or can he really 'walk away' from the PW GTF and the early A320neo?
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ozglobal
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:23 am

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):

So is this just a temper tantrum or can he really 'walk away' from the PW GTF and the early A320neo?

Given Al Baker has an attention seeking tantrum about once a month, we are due for one anyway. No doubt there are teething problems with these new engines and launch customers often have to deal with that. I'd wait a few months before judging how justified Al Baker's "screaming" is this time.
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zkojq
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:24 am

I'm still waiting for him to make good on his threat to order 737NGs.  
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PanHAM
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:31 am

Management by screaming does not impress European and American Managers that much. important is what the contracts say. LH may not be happy about the teething Problems the neo has but they have been wise enough to take the challenge and tackle the Problem. They get the additional time paid and LH Technik gains more experience and Expertise which they can successfully market.

.
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ap305
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:33 am

I think one cannot blame him on this issue... PW and to a lesser extent Airbus have messed up this one and AAB has every right to protect the interests of QR....
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speedbored
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:34 am

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
So is this just a temper tantrum or can he really 'walk away' from the PW GTF and the early A320neo?

Probably both. Though how much, if anything, walking away might cost him will all depend on the contract.

For someone who is supposedly desperate for additional aircraft, this is a truly bizarre way to behave. Surely, a slightly impaired aircraft would be better than no aircraft, if you really are that desperate.

I'm still convinced that he's discovered that his expansion plans have been wildly over-optimistic, and is using any excuses he can come up with to delay or cancel deliveries, and make it all look like it is someone elses fault.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:34 am

Does this mean an actual cancellation?
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:36 am

Seems odd to cancel a single plane when you have 50 on order. I suppose 'walks away' was meant in a different context. I tend to agree with a temper tantrum.

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
can he really 'walk away' from the PW GTF and the early A320neo?

A customer can always walk away from his airplane order if he really wants to.

That said, canceling the P&W engine will not resolve his need for more capacity. He can talk to CFM and get some engines in 2018 (there's a huge backlog on the LEAP) or order some 737 MAX and gets the planes around 2019 (there's a huge backlog on the 737 MAX as well). Alternatively he could wait a couple more months and gets his first P&W powered A320neo before the end of the year. The first modified engines have just been shipped to TLS.

If QR is really in desperate need of additional lift, option three would be the most logical decision.

Quoting speedbored (Reply 5):
For someone who is supposedly desperate for additional aircraft, this is a truly bizarre way to behave.

   This.

[Edited 2016-06-03 04:37:38]
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StTim
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:37 am

It is most odd when one hears about some of the major misses on performance that previous planes have endured with no such tantrums in public.
 
LSZH34
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:43 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 3):

Management by screaming does not impress European and American Managers that much. important is what the contracts say. LH may not be happy about the teething Problems the neo has but they have been wise enough to take the challenge and tackle the Problem. They get the additional time paid and LH Technik gains more experience and Expertise which they can successfully market.

Couldn't agree more. Raging doesn't solve the issue.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 2):

I'm still waiting for him to make good on his threat to order 737NGs

Oh I would love to see him keeping his word trust me!
 
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Heavierthanair
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:13 pm

G'day

with all those Al Maha Airways planes having been delivered but that cannot be used for the purpose intended, Qatar likely has too many A320'ies available right now. As to if and when Al Maha can start operations in Saudi Arabia is anyone's guess. Until that date which is surely long after the GTF engine issues have been resolved those planes will be flying for Qatar or if there are too many they will be parked until needed.  Wow!

So I do not quite know what His Beloved Highness Al U-Turn is screaming about   

I guess he is trying to resolve the problem with his overcommitments to new aircraft purchases, be that A320NEO, A350 or A380'ies
  


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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:05 pm

Quoting ap305 (Reply 4):
I think one cannot blame him on this issue... PW and to a lesser extent Airbus have messed up this one and AAB has every right to protect the interests of QR....

If we want to assign blame, I think Airbus could and should have found a way to not have QR as a launch customer. They knew unless things went perfectly QR / AAB would raise hell (he's 100% consistent on that) and of course PW has a history of disappointing new product introductions, so the fact that we are at this point always had a high likelyhood. This is the kind of situation they simply do not need and I feel should have found a way to avoid, mainly by avoiding having AAB as a launch customer. It wouldn't have been that hard to do, simply offer him a contract with next to no protections in case of late delivery due to the fact that it was a launch order, and if he wanted standard protections, he'd have to wait till later in the program lifecycle.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 3):
LH may not be happy about the teething Problems the neo has but they have been wise enough to take the challenge and tackle the Problem. They get the additional time paid and LH Technik gains more experience and Expertise which they can successfully market.

Right, but it's not realistic to expect every operator to have access to an in-house asset like LH Technic.

Quoting speedbored (Reply 5):
Though how much, if anything, walking away might cost him will all depend on the contract.

I would suspect that it must be very little, if he's willing to walk away.

Quoting speedbored (Reply 5):
For someone who is supposedly desperate for additional aircraft, this is a truly bizarre way to behave. Surely, a slightly impaired aircraft would be better than no aircraft, if you really are that desperate.

Good point.

Quoting speedbored (Reply 5):
I'm still convinced that he's discovered that his expansion plans have been wildly over-optimistic, and is using any excuses he can come up with to delay or cancel deliveries, and make it all look like it is someone elses fault.

It's interesting that he's deciding to raise these issues just as the updated engines are beginning to become available.

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 6):
Does this mean an actual cancellation?

Sadly the report isn't all that precise. It says AB is walking away from the first A320neo and may 'cancel' others. I'm not sure we can blame the reporter, he can only report what AB said and may not have been given an opportunity to ask follow-up questions that would make things clearer.
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mjoelnir
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:05 pm

I assume that Qatar will be able to walk away from the first few A320-271n. We have seen similar happenings at other airlines. LH for example did never take one 747-8i that was not up to their standards.
Walking away completely from the A320neo or even P&W, I do not expect to happen.
 
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enzo011
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:05 pm

Quoting speedbored (Reply 5):
I'm still convinced that he's discovered that his expansion plans have been wildly over-optimistic, and is using any excuses he can come up with to delay or cancel deliveries, and make it all look like it is someone elses fault.

I believe this is close to the truth as well. The same with EK and the cancelled A350 order, if they really were upset that Airbus gave them the changes they wanted and still had the same plans you would have seen a 787 order already. Seeing as they are only looking at mid 2020s delivery it looks like 2 of the the ME3 have had to slow down a bit.

You also get the feeling that Al Baker had QR figured out, he will expand to his hearts content and eventually the money coming in would cover the expenses. Seems that the US3 battle has had an effect and they forced to look more like a business than the wealthy plaything they were for many years.
 
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Richard28
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:19 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 11):
Sadly the report isn't all that precise. It says AB is walking away from the first A320neo and may 'cancel' others

which doesn't make sense when Al Baker says this:

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Their absence “has a huge impact on my bottom line," Al Baker said adding, “we are screaming.”

If they need this lift urgently, and the fix is imminent, then accept the frame and get on with it...

Does make you wonder what else lies beneath the surface here... either the "fix" is not yet good enough for Qatar, or something else is going on at Qatar....
 
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:31 pm

Quoting Richard28 (Reply 14):
If they need this lift urgently, and the fix is imminent, then accept the frame and get on with it...

He's also referring to being restricted to CAT1 landings, any idea when that gets fixed?
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:42 pm

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 1):
Given Al Baker has an attention seeking tantrum about once a month, we are due for one anyway. No doubt there are teething problems with these new engines and launch customers often have to deal with that. I'd wait a few months before judging how justified Al Baker's "screaming" is this time.

He should've bought the NEO with CFM LEAPs anyway, and did it right the first time.
 
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:45 pm

For someone who loves being a launch customer, he sure has a very low tolerance for teething issues.
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mjoelnir
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:48 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 16):
He should've bought the NEO with CFM LEAPs anyway, and did it right the first time.

And would not have any frame delivered up to now either.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:59 pm

We don't know how good EIS of the CFM powered A320neo will be, but I can ensure you there will be debugging too.

As for the P&W engine, things are as usual way overblown by the media:

The GTF and start-up issues on the neo – Much Ado About Nothing?
Indigo business model threatened by PW1100G?

As the article says:

Quote:
Yes, the current GTF does take too long to start, but no, it won’t break either the airline or its ability to put money in the bank. Airlines have padded schedules so much the four minutes currently needed at startup does not seem to matter.

IndiGo was in desperate need for additional lift, hence took delivery of the A320neo and agreed to retrofit the engines later on. While the situation may not be perfect, at least they have extra planes flying to support their growth.
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wingman
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:09 pm

SO the NEO backlog is now down to 2604, that's quite a blow for Airbus. Mr. Baker sure knows how to make it hurt.
 
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:39 pm

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 17):
For someone who loves being a launch customer, he sure has a very low tolerance for teething issues.

  
Has QR ever been happy with a new fleet type?
 
mjoelnir
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:43 pm

Quoting wingman (Reply 20):
SO the NEO backlog is now down to 2604, that's quite a blow for Airbus. Mr. Baker sure knows how to make it hurt.

how did you calculate that? If we talk about A320neo only than we talk about 3,340 - 34 = 3,306 left in backlog
If we talk about the A320neo and A321neo than we talk about 4,457 - 50 = 4,407 left in backlog

If Qatar should cancel some A320neo and/or A321neo.

I imagine rather swapping some of the very first frames for slightly older frames.
 
wingman
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:51 pm

Just being tongue in cheek there, the point being QRs cancellation will have absolutely no impact on the 320NEO or Airbus.

I really detest DL's behavior at ATL, but this morning I almost kinda like it. Baker can be a real jackass.
 
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:06 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 7):

Seems odd to cancel a single plane when you have 50 on order. I suppose 'walks away' was meant in a different context. I tend to agree with a temper tantrum.

I guess this is true. But AAB is known for making strong statements, and the problems with the P&W engine give him the reason to do that. So I would only expect hem to make use of that possibility.

Maybe this is about additional compensation? Hopefully P&W can have all the problems sorted out a.s.a.p. and the A320-neo's can be shipped to QR.
 
Flighty
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:15 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 11):
If we want to assign blame, I think Airbus could and should have found a way to not have QR as a launch customer. They knew unless things went perfectly QR / AAB would raise hell

Of course Airbus knew because they are professionals.

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 17):
For someone who loves being a launch customer, he sure has a very low tolerance for teething issues.

How embarrassing for Qatar and the executive involved. Does anyone take it seriously, no. You want a mature product, come back in 60 months. If not, don't.
 
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:21 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 24):
Hopefully P&W can have all the problems sorted out a.s.a.p. and the A320-neo's can be shipped to QR.

As above, the first engines with the fixes have been shipped to TLS.

Still wondering if the CAT1 issue can be resolved quickly.
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:35 pm

Quoting speedbored (Reply 5):
For someone who is supposedly desperate for additional aircraft, this is a truly bizarre way to behave. Surely, a slightly impaired aircraft would be better than no aircraft, if you really are that desperate.

Funny. When US CEOs like Richard Anderson make similar threats everyone on these threads talks about how smart it is. He has every right to complain about the performance of the airplane, and it certainly is not a bizzare way to behave. it's rather smart.
 
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speedbored
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:49 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 27):
He has every right to complain

True.

Quoting catiii (Reply 27):
it's rather smart.

I'd love to know how you think it is smart to cancel, or even delay delivery of a frame, knowing that no other option would be available anytime soon, when you are desperate for additional aircraft.

The smart thing to do, IMO, would be to take the frame as-is, operate it with the limitations that it has, complain to the manufacturer and get them to compensate you for the additional costs and/or losses that you incur by operating a sub-optimal frame.

As a planned launch operator, he's very unlikely to be due anywhere near enough compensation, if he cancels, to cover the loss he will likely make from having no aircraft at all, no matter how bad the issues are. There's a very good reason why launch operators get such large discounts.
 
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WesternDC6B
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:06 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 11):
It's interesting that he's deciding to raise these issues just as the updated engines are beginning to become available.

My question is: are these updates solving the issues? As noted by another comment-maker, P&W has quite a history of bad introductions.

"Has QR ever been happy with a new fleet type?"

Has Al Baker ever been happy?

[Edited 2016-06-03 09:12:55]
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:19 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 19):

Thanks, Karel, for these articles. Sounds like an outstanding EIS, on the reliability point of view. How sad that such a great news is lost on other issues.

On the question at hand: the (un)even cooling of the engine… Why couldn't the cooling period happen just after the engine cut off? Thus saving time at the next startup? Would it be too harsh on the engine?
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catiii
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:27 pm

Quoting speedbored (Reply 28):
I'd love to know how you think it is smart to cancel, or even delay delivery of a frame, knowing that no other option would be available anytime soon, when you are desperate for additional aircraft.

Who says they are desperate? Obviously they're not that desperate as there are a number of second hand air frames they could go buy if so. They obviously don't need the airplane that badly if they're walking away from the first delivery. It sends a pretty strong message to Airbus and Pratt. Also, taking an airframe that can't fulfill its mission is bad business.
 
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kanban
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:41 pm

Interesting, if this were another customer walking away from troubled planes, would we be attacking the customer instead of the OEM???
 
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flylku
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:04 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 3):
Management by screaming does not impress European and American Managers that much. important is what the contracts say. LH may not be happy about the teething Problems the neo has but they have been wise enough to take the challenge and tackle the Problem. They get the additional time paid and LH Technik gains more experience and Expertise which they can successfully market.

Agreed. If you don't want to deal with teething problems don't agree to be a launch customer.
...are we there yet?
 
rbrunner
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:13 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 31):
Also, taking an airframe that can't fulfill its mission is bad business.

I suppose that having to wait 6 minutes at idle before they can taxi doesn't mean that it can't fulfill its missions. Apparently, LH are getting compensation from Airbus until the problem is solved, and I presume so are IndiGo and GoAir. But that's much better than not having the aircraft at all. I agree with all a.netters that think that AAB is not that desperate for additional lift.
 
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Stitch
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:14 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 7):
Seems odd to cancel a single plane when you have 50 on order.

As mjoelnir noted, LH cancelled one of their 20 747-8s.



Quoting msp747 (Reply 21):
Has QR ever been happy with a new fleet type?

Well he did seem to complain the least about his A350s.
 
pygmalion
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:16 pm

Quoting flylku (Reply 33):
Agreed. If you don't want to deal with teething problems don't agree to be a launch customer.

Airbus agreed to the same contract with the same walkway clause for this sought after launch customer. They actively worked to have QTR to be the launch airline for the GTF A320neo.

You cant put all this on QTR. If Airbus didn't want to have the walkaway clause knowing they could have "teething issues" on a new intro... they didn't have to include one. And if they didnt think QTR would do exactly this.. they are being severely naive. We all know what QTR is like. Airbus and Boeing more than any of us.
 
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:42 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 31):
Who says they are desperate?

AAB is:

Quote:
Their absence “has a huge impact on my bottom line," Al Baker said adding, “we are screaming.”
Quote:
“We want absolute flexibility, but now we cannot fly into many destinations.”
Quote:
“they only have a short window to address this.”

Quoting catiii (Reply 31):
They obviously don't need the airplane that badly if they're walking away from the first delivery.

Yep, I think that's the exact point speedbored is making- the urgency of AAB's complaints don't match up with the threat to walk away.

Quoting kanban (Reply 32):
Interesting, if this were another customer walking away from troubled planes, would we be attacking the customer instead of the OEM???

Depends- AAB does have some history here; it's not like he's new to taking early aircraft- he ought to know the score. AAB's insistence on conducting these disputes through the press is another factor that lowers people's opinions of him compared to his opposite numbers at other airlines.

It's his way of doing business though, and Airbus obviously think it's worth the short term PR hit he's giving them. I think they're probably right in the end- I don't imagine that the industry views AAB much differently from those in this forum.
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seahawk
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:49 pm

Nice when a CEo is blunt and does away with pampering the manufacturer. Now I hope he follows up with clear actions and cancels his NEO order.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:50 pm

Quoting speedbored (Reply 5):
For someone who is supposedly desperate for additional aircraft, this is a truly bizarre way to behave

QR load factors are poor. The government is running a huge deficit at these 'low' energy prices. I suspect QR is using any excuse to cut outlays.

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StTim
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:51 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 38):
Nice when a CEo is blunt and does away with pampering the manufacturer. Now I hope he follows up with clear actions and cancels his NEO order.

Which would leave him even deeper in the do do. Whilst Boeing may fall over themselves to give him ealy slots on the MAX they won't be this year and also given his tantrums - they would be wary fo doing so.

The C series is smaller and still has P&W fans on it.

Hoist by his own petard.
 
Amiga500
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:01 pm

I couldn't deal with him. I've admiration for those that have the patience to do so... I'd tell him to go ---- himself.

If he really thinks he can get as good an aircraft elsewhere in the time period for the cost, go ahead.



[Note also, to date the dispatch reliability of the A320neo is SUPERB, up above 99% and its saving around 100 gal/hr in fuel compared to the ceo. Its just the warming up problem. AAB is obviously too stupid to realise that you don't get launch customer prices for free - technical risks come attached.]
 
ap305
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:09 pm

And Pratt now responds to AAB's remarks

http://www.utc.com/News/Pages/Cleari...ney-PurePower.aspx?linkId=25162724

Quote:
Hearing too much noise? Let’s clear the air. The Pratt & Whitney PW1100G-JM engine is fully certified and meets performance and contract specifications, delivering 16% better fuel efficiency, 50% reduction in overall emissions, and 75% reduction in noise footprint while yielding a better than 99% reliability rate.

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speedbored
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:10 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 38):
Now I hope he follows up with clear actions and cancels his NEO order.

He may well do exactly that. The timing of this particular rant, just as fixed engines are being delivered, suggests that he is:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 39):
using any excuse to cut outlays.

It's not just neos that he has been having "issues" with, most of which do not seem to be affecting other airline customers in anything like the same way.

Maybe QR is just really unlucky in that they attract a whole lot more Gremlins than anyone else  
 
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speedbored
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:14 pm

Quoting ap305 (Reply 42):
And Pratt now responds to AAB's remarks

Hahahaha. Brilliant response.

I wonder how he likes the taste of his own medicine?
 
ap305
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:16 pm

Racing, competing, is in my blood. It's part of me, it's part of my life; I've been doing it all my life. And it stands up before anything else- Ayrton Senna
 
ba319-131
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:44 pm

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Quote:

Qatar Airways has walked away from its first Airbus A320neo and may cancel more of the type if Pratt & Whitney do not resolve the issues with PW1100G quickly, Qatar CEO Akbar Al Baker said.

The airline, originally expected to be the launch operator for the aircraft, should by now have had five A320neos in service. Their absence “has a huge impact on my bottom line," Al Baker said adding, “we are screaming.” The airline wants to “imminently open discussions” with CFM International about switching to Leap-1A-powered aircraft and is also considering leasing additional aircraft to bridge the gap.

Qatar Airways refused to take delivery of its first A320neo last December (Aviation Daily, Dec. 9, 2015). Several issues still need to be sorted out, among them ETOPS clearance, and the aircraft is limited only to Category 1 landings, Al Baker said. “We want absolute flexibility, but now we cannot fly into many destinations.” He warned that “they only have a short window to address this.”

- Why walk away from the first plane when the issue is the engines, not the plane itself??

Is this surely not just refusing delivery until problems have been resolved?

P&W truly suck as an engine manufacturer these days,this current problem is really going to hurt them on their next proposed engine application as the OEM's and airlines will not trust them to deliver the goods on time and on spec.
111,732,733,734,735,736,73G,738,739,7M8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312,313,318,319,320,20N,321,332,333,342,343,345,346,388,CS1,CS3,I86,154,SSJ,CRJ,CR7,CR9,145,170,175,220
 
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ER757
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:59 pm

Quoting flylku (Reply 33):
If you don't want to deal with teething problems don't agree to be a launch customer.

  

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 39):
QR load factors are poor. The government is running a huge deficit at these 'low' energy prices. I suspect QR is using any excuse to cut outlays.

I suspect this is true as well
 
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zckls04
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:01 pm

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 46):
P&W truly suck as an engine manufacturer these days,this current problem is really going to hurt them on their next proposed engine application as the OEM's and airlines will not trust them to deliver the goods on time and on spec.

Most airlines expect some teething troubles- that's why they get the big discounts. This hasn't really been a big issue for anybody except Qatar. Let's see what the CFM's introduction is like before we get too excited- I suspect in the wash, the P&W will end up being the better product.
Four Granavox Turbines!
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: QR 'Walks Away' From First A320neo

Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:04 pm

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 30):
Thanks, Karel, for these articles. Sounds like an outstanding EIS, on the reliability point of view. How sad that such a great news is lost on other issues.

Mankind tend to focus on the negative things in life. It's our human nature.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.

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