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B7474
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How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:55 pm

I was dropping off my cousins the other night at JFK at Terminal 1 for their flight back to Vancouver and could not help but see how empty the line was for Flight PR127 from JFK - YVR - MNL. I was wondering what the loads are like because it seemed like it was gonna be a really empty Boeing 777 on the way to Manila, Philippines. I was checking out the other carries getting ready to Asia too Korean Air, Eva Air, and China Eastern they were full , and had a fair share of Filipinos like myself getting ready to board too, so I mean after over a year is it still really worth it for them? There is just so much competition out here for them not to mention there's also many other carries that fly out daily including Delta, JAL, ANA, CX and many more that they have to compete with.
 
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Spiderguy252
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:29 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but have PR gone for the ULR model of the A359 to service the JFK route going forward? They clearly see it as a long term destination if they are dedicating a sub-fleet for it.
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Tomassjc
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:10 pm

Quoting B7474 (Thread starter):
I was dropping off my cousins the other night at JFK at Terminal 1 for their flight back to Vancouver and could not help but see how empty the line was for Flight PR127 from JFK - YVR - MNL.

Perhaps the YVR-MNL portion was booked full, hence the light load?

Tomas SJC
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jfklganyc
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:23 pm

Does it matter? Will they ax the route? This is one of many prestige routes in the world.
 
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Devilfish
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Sat Jun 04, 2016 5:09 am

Quoting B7474 (Thread starter):
I was dropping off my cousins the other night at JFK at Terminal 1 for their flight back to Vancouver and could not help but see how empty the line was for Flight PR127 from JFK - YVR - MNL.

Typhoon season will be upon the country in a matter of weeks (unless El Nino delays it further). Nobody would want to be stranded there then unless he has a pressing business to attend to.

Quoting B7474 (Thread starter):
I was wondering what the loads are like because it seemed like it was gonna be a really empty Boeing 777 on the way to Manila, Philippines.

Light loads are expected during this off-peak time. That said, it's the reason I was advocating that PR switch their remaining A333ceo order to A338s for them to have more flexibility in these lean months. They could rotate the A338 with the 77W on alternate days on both legs of this route (like they do with the A340s). But PR want to simplify and standardize on the A359 for this and potential new European destinations in the near future.

Quoting B7474 (Thread starter):
I was checking out the other carries getting ready to Asia too Korean Air, Eva Air, and China Eastern they were full , and had a fair share of Filipinos like myself getting ready to board too, so I mean after over a year is it still really worth it for them?

A lot of those are O&D with a healthy helping of premium and connecting passengers. PR must be acutely aware now that new planes and the latest IFE do not automatically ensure success. The competition are offering better service at less cost. PR's only advantages are more direct routing and probably, nonstop flights when they receive their A359s.


Quoting Spiderguy252 (Reply 1):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but have PR gone for the ULR model of the A359 to service the JFK route going forward?

They ordered a higher gross weight version (278T). Airbus credits that A359 with extra-long-range (XLR) capability.....

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...-finalises-order-for-the-a350-xwb/

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 3):
Does it matter? Will they ax the route? This is one of many prestige routes in the world.

PR is not in it for the prestige...they genuinely think that it would work for them. They have already seen how the route performs with the A340/77W combo, so it's not like they're investing on it without a clue. PR could make it a seasonal thing in the meantime though it's doubtful they'd drop it altogether before having a chance to put the A359 on that sector.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
blacksoviet
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:33 am

What year was Terminal 6 expanded at JFK? Were there any new gates added?
 
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Coronado990
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:12 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 4):
PR is not in it for the prestige...they genuinely think that it would work for them.

If prestige didn't matter, they would be using their resources to serve SAN where 200,000 Filipinos call home instead of making them drive 120 miles to LAX.
SFO=NoCal LAX=SoCal SAN=LoCal
 
blacksoviet
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:19 pm

Could an A340 take off from SAN and make it all the way to the Philippines?
 
COSPN
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:25 pm

SAN will never happen LAX is easy drive up the road .. Or they can fly to SFO
 
tmiw
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:25 am

Quoting blacksoviet (Reply 7):
Could an A340 take off from SAN and make it all the way to the Philippines?

Probably with passenger/cargo limits. A350 should have no problems though.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:59 pm

Quoting blacksoviet (Reply 5):
What year was Terminal 6 expanded at JFK? Were there any new gates added?

T6 is gone. T5 was expanded onto that foot print. Likely 2 years ago.

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 4):
PR is not in it for the prestige...they genuinely think that it would work for them. They have already seen how the route performs with the A340/77W combo, so it's not like they're investing on it without a clue. PR could make it a seasonal thing in the meantime though it's doubtful they'd drop it altogether before having a chance to put the A359 on that sector.

But are they making money? I couldn't imagine they are. I guess none of us know
 
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adamh8297
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:25 pm

Quoting B7474 (Thread starter):
I was wondering what the loads are like because it seemed like it was gonna be a really empty Boeing 777 on the way to Manila, Philippines.

You can check the following link for loads up to November 2015

http://aviationdb.net/aviationdb/F4SDetailQuery#SUBMIT

They had a 25% LF on the JFK-YVR link in 11/2015. Ouch....
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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Devilfish
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:23 pm

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 6):
If prestige didn't matter, they would be using their resources to serve SAN where 200,000 Filipinos call home instead of making them drive 120 miles to LAX.

There is also the small matter of business yield...                   ...


Quoting tmiw (Reply 9):
Quoting blacksoviet (Reply 7):
Could an A340 take off from SAN and make it all the way to the Philippines?

Probably with passenger/cargo limits.

If pax could do away with the balikbayan boxes, then PR might make a go of it.    .


Quoting COSPN (Reply 8):
SAN will never happen LAX is easy drive up the road ... Or they can fly to SFO

Many people using the 5, 405, 15 and 215 will disagree. Although things could be much better after all the construction at the transition from the 91 are completed.


Quoting tmiw (Reply 9):
A350 should have no problems though.

PR isn't likely to put the expensive A359 on a secondary route.....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-i9CRdLMWupA/U8PW5lDgLtI/AAAAAAAAAnI/BaxVzfGaTuE/s1600/a330neo1.PNG
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-i9CRdLMWup...AnI/BaxVzfGaTuE/s1600/a330neo1.PNG


OTOH, the A338 seems just the right plane for it (given caveat above).....

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_A330-800neo_RR_AIB_01_47809a8647.jpg
http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/_pro...30-800neo_RR_AIB_01_47809a8647.jpg


Arguably, the A338 might actually be fine for the JFK-MNL one-stopper...and a nonstop MNL-LHR as suggested in the range chart shown (provided Airbus builds it first).


Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 10):
But are they making money? I couldn't imagine they are. I guess none of us know

If the application above is to be believed, then they are not...which should have made them pull the service, but they haven't.    .


Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 11):
They had a 25% LF on the JFK-YVR link in 11/2015. Ouch....

That could be telling a part of the story only.....   
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
b747400erf
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:43 pm

YVR is an odd choice, is it for bilateral reasons? A stop in LAX would be better to fill seats.
 
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Polot
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:46 pm

Quoting b747400erf (Reply 13):
YVR is an odd choice, is it for bilateral reasons? A stop in LAX would be better to fill seats.

Except PR can't sell LAX-JFK with local passengers like they can with YVR-JFK. That would also require them to block MNL-LAX seats to ensure there is space for JFK bound passengers.

[Edited 2016-06-05 12:46:58]
 
blacksoviet
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:08 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 10):

Yes. I realize T6 is gone. But wasn't it expanded at some point before demolition?
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:05 pm

Quoting b747400erf (Reply 13):

YVR is an odd choice, is it for bilateral reasons? A stop in LAX would be better to fill seats.

Transiting the U.S.A is a nightmare, just ask NZ.
 
b747400erf
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:11 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 16):

Transiting the U.S.A is a nightmare, just ask NZ.

The relationships between US-NZ is much different than a former colony, the Philippines. Less restrictive movement America-Philippines compared to America-NZ.
 
crownvic
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:12 am

PAL also needs to get into a worldwide FF program, to draw more business travelers. No OW, SkyTeam or Star costs them a certain amount of passengers.
 
anrec80
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:22 am

Quoting b747400erf (Reply 13):
YVR is an odd choice, is it for bilateral reasons? A stop in LAX would be better to fill seats.

Yes, PR has 5th freedom on the route YVR-JFK, along with CX. I am also curious what's the percentage of people boarding at JFK are bound to YVR. I have flown this sector on PR and can say their offering (service and plane) is far inferior to CX. 3-4-3 77W, interior is dated and not functional. Not looking forward to flying with them again.
 
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Polot
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:23 pm

Quoting anrec80 (Reply 19):
I am also curious what's the percentage of people boarding at JFK are bound to YVR.

It wouldn't surprised me if it was very small. Product differences aside, PR's JFK-YVR flight is poorly timed for local traffic, unless you love leaving JFK at midnight and getting to YVR at 3:30 in the morning.
 
EBGflyer
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:25 am

Quoting anrec80 (Reply 19):
3-4-3 77W, interior is dated and not functional. Not looking forward to flying with them again.

Funny thing is PAL's 77W's are reasonably new (3-5 years old). They just chose the cheap option. Filipino style.

No matter what, it is probably hard to compete with CX. The US Airlines doesn't even come close either.
Future flights: CPH-BOS; CPH-SVG; CPH-PVG-HKG-MNL-DVO; CPH-CDG; CPH-NRT; CPH-MIA; CPH-PVG
 
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Devilfish
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:22 pm

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 21):
They just chose the cheap option. Filipino style.

I think it was not so much an option for them just like PR did not choose to give up the A321NEOs for the A359s without misgivings. However, their president is on record as striving to revamp their offerings to improve their rating. There could be a silver lining in all of these though. It may enable PR to upgrade its turboprop fleet to CS100s or E175E2s.....

http://www.philippineflightnetwork.c...-seeks-nine-regional-aircraft.html


Or replace those with this at least...    ...

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/a524...636002806042998398-XXX-JJC5535.JPG

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/a524...636002806094635060-XXX-JJC5539.JPG


Quite obvious that an outline of the new D1 was just painted over the front cargo door...though I remember seeing a photo with the front airstair down.....   
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Viscount724
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:08 am

Quoting Polot (Reply 20):
Quoting anrec80 (Reply 19):
I am also curious what's the percentage of people boarding at JFK are bound to YVR.

It wouldn't surprised me if it was very small. Product differences aside, PR's JFK-YVR flight is poorly timed for local traffic, unless you love leaving JFK at midnight and getting to YVR at 3:30 in the morning.

But PR fares JFK-YVR appear to be significantly lower than the 4 other carriers with nonstop service in the JFK/EWR-YVR market (AC/UA from EWR and CX/DL from JFK...UA and DL both seasonal, summer only). For some random dates I checked in mid-July, PR's lowest round trip fare was $357 including taxes/fees. That's 30% to 40% lower than all other carriers in the market. The CX schedule, arriving YVR around 1 AM, isn't that great either. With a saving of around $150 or more, many people wouldn't mind arriving at 3:30 AM. Good way to avoid YVR's rush hour traffic.  
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:40 pm

Quoting blacksoviet (Reply 15):
Yes. I realize T6 is gone. But wasn't it expanded at some point before demolition?

B6 did a lot with the building. It was built in the 60s and really was 80s chic from TWA domestic ops by the time B6 got it.

Believe it or not, they actually eliminated some gates. 7/8 was a split gate for (what I could only guess) were DC9 ops? B6 made it one gate for the 320s. In the south rotunda, Gate 11 (which was one of the right hand boarding gates I believe) was eliminated.

A trailer park was added in the mid 2000s to expand B6 ops before T5 was built
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:24 pm

Quoting COSPN (Reply 8):
SAN will never happen LAX is easy drive up the road .. Or they can fly to SFO

JL makes it work despite the proximity to LAX.

Quoting Polot (Reply 20):
Product differences aside, PR's JFK-YVR flight is poorly timed for local traffic, unless you love leaving JFK at midnight and getting to YVR at 3:30 in the morning.

CX has a similar schedule and they get a lot of local traffic.
 
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SEPilot
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:28 pm

PR flying from JFK is attractive to those of us whose ultimate destination in the Philippines in NOT Manila; it is much easier to continue on to DPL or whatever the destination is on PR rather than have to book a separate flight on PR or 5J; for one thing, on PR and 5J domestic flights ALL baggage has fees (and pretty high ones at that), while I believe if you book an international flight on PR the international baggage rates (free for 50 kilos) applies for the whole flight. Last time I checked, though, the fares were quite a bit higher than others. Next time we go we will compare, but I am still partial to BR. The flights I took with them were excellent.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
blacksoviet
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:49 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 24):

I loved the high ceilings in the ticketing building at T6. That building had a very open and spacious feeling. I believe most of the support columns were around the perimeter of the structure.
 
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Devilfish
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:19 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 25):
JL makes it work despite the proximity to LAX.

Except JL has a lot of premium traffic to Japan which is not going to MNL.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 26):
Last time I checked, though, the fares were quite a bit higher than others. Next time we go we will compare, but I am still partial to BR. The flights I took with them were excellent.

A cursory check of available flights on BR show $1,285 ow JFK-MNL with a 4.5 hour stop at TPE on Jun 25. Available flight in Y on PR about the same date is $987 with the YVR stop.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
fusionliner
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:55 am

Surprised no one posted this. Not the best advertising for their JFK flights

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/tr...r-service-time-missing-flight.html

As per the flight itself, Ive read many articles the past few months from the airline itself that the route has performed and exceeded their expectations. Take it with a grain of salt, but that seems to be PR they have been releasing.
 
grbauc
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:18 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 29576 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted Tue Jun 7 2016 21:08:37 your local time (2 days 53 minutes ago) and read 1179 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 20):
Quoting anrec80 (Reply 19):
I am also curious what's the percentage of people boarding at JFK are bound to YVR.

It wouldn't surprised me if it was very small. Product differences aside, PR's JFK-YVR flight is poorly timed for local traffic, unless you love leaving JFK at midnight and getting to YVR at 3:30 in the morning.

But PR fares JFK-YVR appear to be significantly lower than the 4 other carriers with nonstop service in the JFK/EWR-YVR market (AC/UA from EWR and CX/DL from JFK...UA and DL both seasonal, summer only). For some random dates I checked in mid-July, PR's lowest round trip fare was $357 including taxes/fees. That's 30% to 40% lower than all other carriers in the market. The CX schedule, arriving YVR around 1 AM, isn't that great either. With a saving of around $150 or more, many people wouldn't mind arriving at 3:30 AM. Good way to avoid YVR's rush hour traffic.  
PR plans and J seat are from the late 80's. I tried them one time and would rather do the UA LAX HI GUM MNL rout in a domestic FC seat the PR direct/poss fuel stop.
I fly to Philippines a lot for scuba diving and until l read of some good trip reports and see how good there New business class seats are I'll only use them for the domestic hops.
Korea airlines has had great fares my last few trips

[Edited 2016-06-09 22:19:55]
 
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SEPilot
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RE: How Is Philippine Airlines Doing At JFK?

Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:34 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 28):

A cursory check of available flights on BR show $1,285 ow JFK-MNL with a 4.5 hour stop at TPE on Jun 25. Available flight in Y on PR about the same date is $987 with the YVR stop.

That is good to know, thanks. I do not expect we will go before Dec/Jan; I will certainly compare then.

Quoting fusionliner (Reply 29):
Surprised no one posted this. Not the best advertising for their JFK flights

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/tr....html

Having flown PR several times within the Philippines, I have no complaint about their inflight service. The service within the airport is spartan, to say the least. But, as I said, these were domestic flights. I have not yet tried them internationally.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler

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