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richardw
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High Density Business Class

Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:38 pm

We may see less space business class seating in the shape of AA's rumoured 'coffin' seat and BA's 'banana' seat, a business class minus, would the A350 and B777 fuselage be on the too big side if this was the dominant cabin on shorter long haul routes up to say 10hr sectors?
 
DLPMMM
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:36 pm

Please be more descriptive of these new rumored seats....I have seen nothing about them.

AA just unveiled their newest J class seat and it does not appear to be out of the current ordinary.

BA's current J class seat I would already consider high density with 8 across. Any more density and it would be Y+
 
jetwet1
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:49 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
BA's current J class seat I would already consider high density with 8 across. Any more density and it would be Y+

Being lay flat it's above Y+ IMHO, but yes, I would call it high density as well.

Honestly, BA, UA and EK rarely ever get a look from me when i'm booking international J travel, I want space and being 7/8 across just doesn't do it for me, though judging by the loads others do not feel the same.
 
richardw
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:00 pm

 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:49 pm

Quoting richardw (Reply 3):
and the coffin seat story http://www.ausbt.com.au/boeing-paten...ating

And this has anything to do with AA where?? Just look at the title: Is Boeing set to put the squeeze on high-paying passengers?

Utter stupidity. Boeing makes planes. Every seat concept under the sun has patents going on. Nothing to see here.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
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lightsaber
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:15 am

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 2):
Honestly, BA, UA and EK rarely ever get a look from me when i'm booking international J travel, I want space and being 7/8 across just doesn't do it for me, though judging by the loads others do not feel the same.

Who is paying for the seat? Business need employees 'rested enough' at their destination. By economizing on the product, costs are held in check allowing aggressive bidding for corporate contracts.

EK takes it a step further on the A380. While each seat doesn't have much room, the bar is popular. While there is less space at the bar than 'taken' from the J seats, the net effect is customers enjoy the experience.

If everyone was willing to pay for more space, more airlines would be doing well with F.

Quoting richardw (Reply 3):

Here's the banana seat story http://www.ausbt.com.au/photos-briti...otype

At 1-2-1 that doesn't seem a bad idea.

To everyone:
Why would that 1-2-1 be considered 'business class minus?' It seems quite nice.


Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
jetwet1
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:25 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):

Who is paying for the seat?

In my case it's my company paying for the seat if it's a business trip, if it's personal it's me paying for it. However, let's take LAX- LHR for a quick example, BA/UA fly the route with their 7-8 across, VS, AA and NZ fly the route with 1-2-1, most of the time the fares are within a couple of dollars of each other, now unless there is is a Corp contract at work, which way would you go ?
 
etops1
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:41 am

This has nothing to do with AA . We've already announced that we will install the BAE Super Diamond seat on our 777,A350 ,and 787 aircraft . There are no "coffin" seats being installed . Get you're facts straight please .
 
richardw
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:41 am

I did say 'may see' and 'rumoured', there is no statement of fact.

With shorter routes up to 10hrs, a B787 with these seats and no first is a bigger enough fuselage diameter, why bother with something bigger?
 
jetwet1
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:10 am

Because its what the market demands.
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:05 am

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 6):
In my case it's my company paying for the seat if it's a business trip, if it's personal it's me paying for it. However, let's take LAX- LHR for a quick example, BA/UA fly the route with their 7-8 across, VS, AA and NZ fly the route with 1-2-1, most of the time the fares are within a couple of dollars of each other, now unless there is is a Corp contract at work, which way would you go ?

World of difference between BAs Club World and UAs Business. Having to literally jump over the person seated next to you if he/she is fully reclined is annoying enough.
 
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seahawk
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:18 am

The banana looks quite nice, you could probably sleep on your side in it, which, I think, is a big advantage.
 
smokeybandit
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:59 am

Those banana seats look extremely uncomfortable for anything other than sitting for anyone with above average height.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:05 am

Airline product has been upgraded, downgraded and rebranded over time. First becomes Business, Business becomes Premium Economy and Economy becomes Economy minus with less and less space and service.

Business class became so lavish for a while that it killed First at many airlines and forced the creation of a separate class beneath it because the gap was too big between Y to J. Now airlines are going back to rationalising space again to make the yields more dense again at the expense of product. 9 abreast becomes 10 abreast 4 abreast goes back to 6 abreast 8 abreast comes 9 abreast etc etc

We have gone from 3 classes F/J/Y to 4 classes F/J/P/Y back to 3 J/P/Y depending on the state of both the home base economy of the airline and the global economy including oil price which ebbs and flows like the tide. One day we might go back to 4 or even up to 5 classes again.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
twincessna340a
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:38 am

Quoting richardw (Reply 3):
and the coffin seat story http://www.ausbt.com.au/boeing-paten...ating

"And while passengers would still have access to the aisle, as indicated by the arrows in each diagram, this would clearly require a combination of ginger steps and yoga-like contortions."

I would think emergency evacuation consideration, especially with a smoke filled cabin would make this unfeasible. Otherwise those seats might actually become coffins!
 
Lofty
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:08 pm

Y+ was introduced when companies started saying their employees could not travel Business. It worked so well that many airlines have some sort of thing.
 
N766UA
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:26 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 11):

Yeah they look pretty good... if you're a 5'5", 110 pound girl. Anyone bigger than the girl pictured (read:everyone) wouldn't have much room, it doesn't look like.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:53 pm

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 6):
However, let's take LAX- LHR for a quick example, BA/UA fly the route with their 7-8 across, VS, AA and NZ fly the route with 1-2-1, most of the time the fares are within a couple of dollars of each other, now unless there is is a Corp contract at work, which way would you go ?

Good point, if the price is the same, I would go with the most comfy seat.  

Alas, my employer almost always has a contract on heavily traveled routes and will even make us take alternate airports when it makes financial sense.

Quoting smokeybandit (Reply 12):
Those banana seats look extremely uncomfortable for anything other than sitting for anyone with above average height.

Good point. I'm six foot and I like to stretch out when sleeping (to just over six feet with toe point). Is there the room?

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
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seahawk
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:57 pm

Quoting smokeybandit (Reply 12):
Those banana seats look extremely uncomfortable for anything other than sitting for anyone with above average height.

I do not know, at least you have a lot of options on how to place yourself. Fully stretched out on the back might be a problem, but then you can probably lay quite comfortably on the side with your knees tucked in a bit, which is imho often uncomfortable on other seat solution. You can sit like in a seat or like on a sofa, if you are not too much of size you could probably even sit in a Lotus or Sukhasana position.
 
BrianDromey
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:13 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):

BA's current J class seat I would already consider high density with 8 across. Any more density and it would be Y+

It's not 8 abreast. It's 4. In a similar way to the Thomson Vantage (LX, EI, DL 767) where the Feet of 2B are beside 1A, the feet of the A seat are by the head of B. The BA seat avoids a foot box, but no aisle access for window/middle seats. It's just a different way of dividing up the space, but isn't 7/8 abreast like EK and UA offer.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:34 pm

I'm 6ft 5 and above average build - when I've flown J on BA I've never had any problems sleeping and have found it a comfortable seat.

The "banana" seat concept article is nearly two years old now. It shows that BA is obviously doing work behind the scenes to come up with a successor to the New Club World Seat, and I wouldn't expect any less from BA. After all, BA introduced lie-flat in First and Business, yet still does well with a second generation of both the original products. They wouldn't have 14F and 96J on the A380 (and 14F and 88J on the newly configured Super Hi-J 744s) if they couldn't fill those seats.

The challenge for BA will be bringing something the the market to replace the current Club World that takes it a step forward (direct aisle access I suspect will be a requirement) whilst at the same time not taking up a load of floor space, thus drastically reducing cabin density. If that does happen, then I'd expect a slightly lower seat count (with prices increased) and more World Traveller Plus seating.

For me, the more interesting thing would be whether the new BA J seat is used by IAG as a Standard J seat for EI and IB (albeit with different colours and soft product).
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
jetwet1
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Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:02 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 16):
Yeah they look pretty good... if you're a 5'5", 110 pound girl. Anyone bigger than the girl pictured (read:everyone) wouldn't have much room, it doesn't look like.

Exactly, i'm looking at that thinking there is no way I will fit comfortably, but then again BA does like to pack them in.
 
b747400erf
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:35 pm

I've paid for biz class upgrades before if the flight is longer than 5 hours because of my long legs, and my knees and back can hurt real bad for hours in a small space. High density ruins the point of business class, I pay to stretch out my legs straight and still not reach the seat in front.
 
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TedToToe
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RE: High Density Business Class

Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:52 pm

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 20):
For me, the more interesting thing would be whether the new BA J seat is used by IAG as a Standard J seat for EI and IB (albeit with different colours and soft product).

Which is probably quite a few years away given that the J seats in the A350 will not be "revolutionary". Not that I'm complaining; give me the BA seat over the VS reverse herringbone any day!

http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...ss-class-seat-will-not-be-fitted-o
 
winginit
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RE: High Density Business Class

Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:19 pm

Quoting richardw (Reply 8):

I did say 'may see' and 'rumoured', there is no statement of fact.

but why did you say

Quoting richardw (Thread starter):
AA's rumoured 'coffin' seat

AA is mentioned nowhere in the article you posted.

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