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YYZAMS
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:12 pm

 
vfw614
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:16 pm

Link only works when copied.
 
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Paolo92
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:19 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 1):
Link only works when copied.

This should work: 31 years later, we found the flight recorders

Cool story
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B8887
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:36 pm

Cool story.

Pardon my ignorance, but are they going to send the tapes to the NTSB?

Regards.

B8887
 
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enilria
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:42 pm

Quoting B8887 (Reply 3):
Pardon my ignorance, but are they going to send the tapes to the NTSB?

That wasn't clear. I guess they are determining if they are from the recorder first?
 
iahcsr
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:30 pm

Just for the record, what is the history of this crash?
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aviatorcraig
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:00 pm

Quoting iahcsr (Reply 5):
Just for the record, what is the history of this crash?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Air_Lines_Flight_980
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surfpunk
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:00 pm

Quoting iahcsr (Reply 5):
Just for the record, what is the history of this crash?

Crashed into a mountain on approach to LPB.
 
EMBQA
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:25 pm

Looks like the empty cases..not the recorders
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XAM2175
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:14 pm

They do mention later in the post that they did find a reel of magnetic tape, although they don't show a close-up photograph of it, and they are being reserved in declaring it a definite find because of the chance it's from a passenger's belongings.

Based on my experience with magnetic recording mediums though, from what I can see of it in the photographs the chances of it being a consumer format are low. I don't know of any cartridge format that used a core that size, and it would be unusual for a professional format to be transported on a core rather than a flanged reel.

Recovery of data from the tape will be an interesting exercise though. Virtually all tape in media applications by 1985 was coated on a Mylar base that should have survived pretty well, but the condition of the magnetic oxide itself could be all over the place depending on how exposed it was. And '80s tape can suffer badly from bonding agent transfer, which basically means it starts gluing itself to other parts of itself, and that's not an easy corner to back out of.
 
YYZAMS
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:27 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 1):
Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 2):

Thanks for helping out guys!
 
cedarjet
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:34 am

Highest crash into terrain in airline history — 19,600 feet above sea level. Way too high for a normal person to be able to remain conscious. May as well have crashed on the moon.
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727LOVER
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:03 am

A.net's lone pic:


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Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.

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DL_Mech
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:32 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 8):
Looks like the empty cases..not the recorders

The 727 mounted both recorders inside a round sealed can on the right side of the airstair compartment. You can see the can on the left side of this pic:

This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.

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bennett123
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:38 am

The FDR might show why they deviated from the planned course.
 
DIJKKIJK
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:31 am

Aren't the flight data recorder boxes built to be impact resistant? They seem to have been smashed to smithreens in this case.
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bohica
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:57 am

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 15):
Aren't the flight data recorder boxes built to be impact resistant? They seem to have been smashed to smithreens in this case.

I don't think any object is designed to withstand a 500mph impact into the side of a mountain and come out in one piece.

Check out these videos of 500mph impacts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6lrtS_LcJ8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZjhxuhTmGk
 
B2468
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:00 am

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 15):
Aren't the flight data recorder boxes built to be impact resistant? They seem to have been smashed to smithreens in this case.

Probably smashed pretty bad when the aircraft struck the mountain, but in the above link, the folks who found these bits of black box mentioned that the mountain was geologically and glacially active over the last 31 years, so much of the damage could have also come from 31 years of being ground through ice and rock.
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flyingturtle
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31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:30 am

This is a beautiful story. Aviation archeology... and the fact that there were 19 passengers and 10 crew members remind us that these were different times...

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 11):
Highest crash into terrain in airline history — 19,600 feet above sea level. Way too high for a normal person to be able to remain conscious. May as well have crashed on the moon.

That's 6000 meters, and that's not that high. A normal but untrained person will remain conscious IMHO, but the rule of thumb is that on 4000 meters (the highest peaks of the western Alps), you've lost half of your sea-level physical strength. Likewise, decision-making will also be impaired.

A brother of mine has climbed Lincancabur during a bicycle trip there. It's nearly 6000 m high. The finders of the black box were trained and acclimatized, I'm sure.

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 15):
Aren't the flight data recorder boxes built to be impact resistant? They seem to have been smashed to smithreens in this case.

No... the reason they often survive crashes is that the tail impacts last. The fuselage takes up lots of energy, but not all of it. There is some crash-proofing though, like casting the electronics in synthetic resin. (In other news, you can fire electronic devices with a gun... it's been done in experiments.)


David

[Edited 2016-06-05 03:05:01]
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northstardc4m
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RE: 31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:51 pm

Quoting XAM2175 (Reply 9):


Based on my experience with magnetic recording mediums though, from what I can see of it in the photographs the chances of it being a consumer format are low. I don't know of any cartridge format that used a core that size, and it would be unusual for a professional format to be transported on a core rather than a flanged reel.

Recovery of data from the tape will be an interesting exercise though. Virtually all tape in media applications by 1985 was coated on a Mylar base that should have survived pretty well, but the condition of the magnetic oxide itself could be all over the place depending on how exposed it was. And '80s tape can suffer badly from bonding agent transfer, which basically means it starts gluing itself to other parts of itself, and that's not an easy corner to back out of.

Unfortunately 980 was carrying 2 "boxes" (im guessing that's 2 cases of 2 or 4 tape reels or cassettes) of computer tapes from the US Embassy in Asuncion. I don't know what type it was but it could be that as well.

Now if it was found in proximity to the recorder casing pieces it's more likely to be from that, but the truth is the important part of the recording would probably not of been fully on the reel yet and if that is the CVR tape it probably will end at least 30 seconds short of the end of the flight.
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CALTECH
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RE: 31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:45 pm

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 13):
The 727 mounted both recorders inside a round sealed can on the right side of the airstair compartment. You can see the can on the left side of this pic:

Wasn't that just one of the recorders, the FDR ? Remember the CVR being in a different location.The other was in a slightly different location, so long ago can't remember. Do remember changing the metal tapes on the FDR though.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5487/11573984103_96d42923f2_b.jpg
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DL_Mech
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RE: 31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:41 pm

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 20):
The other was in a slightly different location, so long ago can't remember.

Tell me about it.... I'm not 100% on the CVR being back there, but my training manual shows it located at STA 1230.

http://airwaysnews.com/galleries/8204.jpg
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DLFREEBIRD
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RE: 31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:41 am

I worked for Eastern until the fat lady sang. It has always bothered me that the plane, passenger and crew has sat up on that mountain frozen in time for all these years.

About 10 years ago, there was reports from a local village that the glacier had melted and given up some of the bodies there was also reports of people in the village bringing down passenger luggage. I thought at that time that a search party would be put together to bring these passengers home to their families. But, that didn't happen.

Eastern being a defunct airline and the accident happening in a country with few resources meant that they would apparently be left up there.

About 7 years ago, i ran into a woman in a parking lot, ( literally and it was my fault) when i open my wallet to show my id. she saw my Eastern Airline Id,card. That i always carry with me out of loyalty. I loved working for Eastern.

She told me that her father had died on Ea980 he was a pilot, but she wanted me to know that he wasn't flying that day. We discussed how odd it was that nobody seemed to care about bring down the passengers to be buried. However, she was a peace and had buried her father in a empty grave years ago. I remember back when it happen. They made a decision to stop searching after a couple of days, since there was zero chance of finding survivors

I am glad that these men took the time to find the black box. I hope more interest will result from this story which might set in motion trying to return passenger remains in this melting glacier to their families for burial.

However, after seeing the condition of the black box, i'm starting to understand what a impossible task that would be. Sadly.
 
Cody
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RE: 31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:08 am

Did any of you ever read this book????

"Final Destination: Disaster: What Really Happened to Eastern Airlines?" by George Jehn

http://www.finaldestinationdisaster.com/

It is a MUST read for anyone interested in the history of Eastern Airlines and how this accident may have lead to the demise of Eastern and the Texas Air thing was just a front. Not saying I believe it, but it is an excellent read and makes you think outside the box.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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RE: 31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:45 am

corporate rater Frank Lorenzo flew Eastern into the ground. End of story. This was the 80's and greed was thought to be good.
 
USAIRWAYS321
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RE: 31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:48 am

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Reply 24):
corporate rater Frank Lorenzo flew Eastern into the ground. End of story. This was the 80's and greed was thought to be good.

What on earth does that have to do with this story?
 
beiaard
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RE: 31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:05 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 18):
The finders of the black box were trained and acclimatized, I'm sure.

I believe the post you were responding to was speaking of the outcome of possible survivors of the crash.
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DLFREEBIRD
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RE: 31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:06 am

i don't need to read a book, i lived through it. i was replying to the post above my post. thank you very much.
 
Cody
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RE: 31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:13 am

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Reply 27):
i don't need to read a book, i lived through it.

So did the author of the book. He was a veteran Eastern pilot who was in ALPA leadership.

He gives a completely new perspective on the demise of EAL from his personal encounters with Borman, Lorenzo and the sale to Texas Air. Also he provides more details about the Andes accident than I have ever read anywhere else.
 
spacecadet
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RE: 31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:30 am

Quoting XAM2175 (Reply 9):
They do mention later in the post that they did find a reel of magnetic tape, although they don't show a close-up photograph of it,

The photo they do show is pretty large and clear, though. I could be wrong but it doesn't look like what I've seen of CVR tapes of that era. The voice recorder tape usually looks more like a reel-to-reel tape; something like 1/4" tape. The tape in the photo here is much thicker than that. It almost looks like a reel from a VHS or Beta tape, either of which would have been possible at that time.

And wouldn't the FDR actually be on metal foil?
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CALTECH
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RE: 31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:53 pm

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 21):
Tell me about it.... I'm not 100% on the CVR being back there, but my training manual shows it located at STA 1230.

Those brain cells that have the memories are not completely firing. Too deep in the past. The 727 was and still is my favorite.

Quoting Cody (Reply 23):
It is a MUST read for anyone interested in the history of Eastern Airlines and how this accident may have lead to the demise of Eastern and the Texas Air thing was just a front. Not saying I believe it, but it is an excellent read and makes you think outside the box.

Thanks, have to get that book, aee what it's about.

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Reply 24):
corporate rater Frank Lorenzo flew Eastern into the ground. End of story. This was the 80's and greed was thought to be good.

That corporate raider Lorenzo did run it into the ground, and don't forget 'Charles E. Bryan, the folksy head of the machinists' union at Eastern,' he had a lot to do with it because of his ego. Shame what happened to Eastern, when I worked on them the employees were terrific.

Quoting Cody (Reply 28):
He gives a completely new perspective on the demise of EAL from his personal encounters with Borman, Lorenzo and the sale to Texas Air. Also he provides more details about the Andes accident than I have ever read anywhere else.

Like above, don't forget Charles E. Bryan, Lorenzo was the biggest reason for Eastern's collapse, but others had a hand in it too.
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flyingturtle
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RE: 31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:20 pm

Quoting beiaard (Reply 26):
I believe the post you were responding to was speaking of the outcome of possible survivors of the crash.

No, 6000 m is still not a problem for possible survivors - rather the cold and the wind will be cruel. It's a huge problem though for the the other survivors that administer aid, as every step will ache without acclimatization and training.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
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STT757
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RE: 31 Years Later, We Found Eastern 980 Black Box

Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:28 pm

Quoting Cody (Reply 23):
Did any of you ever read this book????

"Final Destination: Disaster: What Really Happened to Eastern Airlines?" by George Jehn

http://www.finaldestinationdisaster.com/

It is a MUST read for anyone interested in the history of Eastern Airlines and how this accident may have lead to the demise of Eastern and the Texas Air thing was just a front. Not saying I believe it, but it is an excellent read and makes you think outside the box.

Thanks for the tip, I ordered it after I read your post and it came yesterday. Started reading it. Eastern is what started my passion for aviation.

Quoting Cody (Reply 28):
So did the author of the book. He was a veteran Eastern pilot who was in ALPA leadership.

He gives a completely new perspective on the demise of EAL from his personal encounters with Borman, Lorenzo and the sale to Texas Air. Also he provides more details about the Andes accident than I have ever read anywhere else.

I really liked his candor as being former Eastern ALPA leadership. He was very critical of the decision the airline made, which the Eastern ALPA supported or even pushed, that the Braniff pilots not come on board Eastern when Eastern purchased Braniff's Latin America routes. He stated the Braniff pilots, some of which were originally from Panagra, had the expertise to fly in to some tough airports such as La Paz which Eastern pilots lacked. He stated the Eastern union saw the new routes as lucrative new opportunities so they didn't want to take the Braniff pilots.
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