Filling 2 X daily (1 X SYD, 1 X BNE) from Australia outside peak will be challenging for AC.

The info that they are still looking at MEL is a strange thing to come out with, along with the moves to increase frequency into BNE so quickly if it was presenting challenges in bookings.

As for HA, no surprise there. They need to get their existing services on a more solid footing before looking at another destination.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 100): Filling 2 X daily (1 X SYD, 1 X BNE) from Australia outside peak will be challenging for AC.

SYD appears to be operated by a 77L over summer, as opposed to normal peak 77W (IIRC?). According to Wikipedia:

AC 77L - 40J24W236Y for total of 300 seats
AC 789 - 30J21W247Y for total of 298 seats.

So we will see almost equal amount of seats each day between SYD-YVR and BNE-YVR on AC (though less J). Obviously SYD also has competition from QF (and DL, UA and AA to lesser extent) and they both have competition from NZ.

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 94): 3. New SPA agreement signed with VA to feed regional Australia/NZ traffic via BNE... a limited QF agreement is still in place (assume to/from SYD)

Interesting given that when you try and book through AC website you get a combination (about equal) of VA, QF and JQ flights.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 100): Filling 2 X daily (1 X SYD, 1 X BNE) from Australia outside peak will be challenging for AC.

Agreed YVR has been an very seasonal route for NZ, with it being 4-5x weekly durring NS and then daily during NW,

Quoting zkncj (Reply 102):

While seasonal for NZ to a degree they first announced it as a seasonal route but saw enough demand to make it year round from the start. They have grown it from 2/3 weekly off peak to 4/5 weekly most of the year and from 3/4 weekly to daily in peak season. So it's a growing route, I'm not sure of the yields some say they will use a more appropriately configured 789, it's a long route only IAH is longer for them but I don't see IAH going 789 anytime soon.

Does anyone know why TZ1 overnighted in SYD? It also landed in PER about an hour ago and has just taken off back to SIN. Aircraft iv 787-9 9V-OJC

http://www.flightradar24.com/reg/9v-ojc

Quoting qf789 (Reply 104): Does anyone know why TZ1 overnighted in SYD? It also landed in PER about an hour ago and has just taken off back to SIN. Aircraft iv 787-9 9V-OJC

Had a fuel leak according to a post on another website. Would say it's next leg was to Perth so the stop in Perth maybe to pick up passengers who have been stranded there otherwise.

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 105): Would say it's next leg was to Perth so the stop in Perth maybe to pick up passengers who have been stranded there otherwise.

There's been no impact on the Perth flight either yesterday or today, so there must be some other reason.

Quoting BAeRJ100 (Reply 106): There's been no impact on the Perth flight either yesterday or today, so there must be some other reason.

Weird because it went straight there, was obviously planned before takeoff (not that PER is along the SYD-SIN flight path anyway so was unlikely to be an inflight divert).

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 74): I thought that it was the same for Sydney, but are you suggesting that they do EK414/EK412/EK413/EK415?

Hi! I'm not suggesting that is the pattern, maybe I should have said minimal hours rather than minimum hours but nothing would surprise me. As zkojq said the rules they have are crazy!

On another topic the NASA/DLR SOFIA aircraft is operating out of CHC for the next 8 weeks. I spotted it on FR24 two nights ago southeast of HBA. Details are here:

http://www.nasa.gov/feature/sofia-he...ew-zealand-to-study-southern-skies

It's amazing that a 747SP is still flying in our southern skies!

Cheers,
Boof

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 107): Weird because it went straight there, was obviously planned before takeoff (not that PER is along the SYD-SIN flight path anyway so was unlikely to be an inflight divert).

Could it be something technical? 9V-OJC hasn't flown since arriving from PER.

D7236 KUL-PER climbed 10000ft before returning back to KUL

http://twitter.com/hashtag/D7236?src=hash

TG has delayed A350 service to MEL again

TG465/466 from 15th September 2016
TG461/462 from 1st October 2016

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... mber-2016/

Does any body know how the China Airlines loads are going at Melbourne? Are CI happy with the loads?

IndianicWorld wrote:

Filling 2 X daily (1 X SYD, 1 X BNE) from Australia outside peak will be challenging for AC.

The info that they are still looking at MEL is a strange thing to come out with, along with the moves to increase frequency into BNE so quickly if it was presenting challenges in bookings.

As for HA, no surprise there. They need to get their existing services on a more solid footing before looking at another destination.

Would love to see Air Canada here at Melbourne as well as HA but I just don't see it happening more so HA flights to the Pacific apart from Fiji Airways have never seemed to work from Melbourne which I cant understand why, it gets bloody cold here and you would think there a lots of Victorians wanting to head to a beautiful warm paradise in the Pacific.

Qatar is set to announce a second flight into MEL. This will be a continuation from the ADL service. Route looks to be as following DOH-ADL-MEL-DOH

... which sounds like a nice way of saying QR can't fill ADL-DOH. Hardly surprising considering how much money the federal govt (and the opposition) is pledging just to keep an uncompetitive manufacturing base in South Australia alive... submarines, steel works, etc.

eta unknown wrote:

... which sounds like a nice way of saying QR can't fill ADL-DOH. Hardly surprising considering how much money the federal govt (and the opposition) is pledging just to keep an uncompetitive manufacturing base in South Australia alive... submarines, steel works, etc.

I would say this is accurate. Is there any data on QR loads to ADL?

a320fan wrote:

I would say this is accurate. Is there any data on QR loads to ADL?

Probably not yet. Have watched the flight on FR24 quite a bit most days it has initially climbed to 38000ft and have also seen it at 40000ft before its crossed the Australian coast around BME.

How would a DOH-ADL-MEL-DOH flight fit in with bilaterals?

Keenly awaiting the QR loads into ADL. Anecdotally, I travelled on EK441/440 out of and into Adelaide this month, and my travelling partners did the same except with QR. My EK flights were very nearly full in J and Y both times, however QR was about half full in Y on both occasions. Given when I booked EK was more convenient and only about $200 AUD dearer, I would find it very difficult to choose QR if I had to make a stop in Melbourne.

qf789 wrote:

How would a DOH-ADL-MEL-DOH flight fit in with bilaterals?

Typically stopping in an unrestricted port - ADL/CNS/DRW etc - allows the flight to continue to a restricted port, even if you have used all the available capacity. An example would be the previous HKG-ADL-MEL-HKG route or the current HKG-CNS-BNE-CNS-HKG route, both on CX (I wonder who is all out of frequencies..)
Whether the Qatar-Australia bilateral follows this, I don't know.

Hey guys,
Exciting news about the SOFIA 747SP in Christchurch... Anyone for a long weekend there?
Hearing interesting stuff about the Virgin Australia fleet... Look in the other thread about it...
Anecdotal evidence I've heard about the Qatar Adelaide flights is that the second flight had 14 passengers into Adelaide. Other flights since then have been better but not profit-inducing...
Spectacular Hercules flights into and out of Canberra today (Thursday)...
Has the rebranding of Tigerair been put on the back burner? Will Tigerair be MAXed?
So why did Indonesia Air Asia really pull out of Sydney and Melbourne? It's really affected the 'mother brand' negatively...
So much happening...
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

QF29 wrote:

Qatar is set to announce a second flight into MEL. This will be a continuation from the ADL service. Route looks to be as following DOH-ADL-MEL-DOH

If this were to happen, would QR look to change one of the schedules to provide connections off another wave at DOH.

current DOH-MEL/ADL departs within 45 mins, and also return back into DOH within 45 mins.

perhaps an opportunity for another connection? although adelaide's curfew would limit options.

qfvhoqa wrote:

qf789 wrote:

How would a DOH-ADL-MEL-DOH flight fit in with bilaterals?

Typically stopping in an unrestricted port - ADL/CNS/DRW etc - allows the flight to continue to a restricted port, even if you have used all the available capacity. An example would be the previous HKG-ADL-MEL-HKG route or the current HKG-CNS-BNE-CNS-HKG route, both on CX (I wonder who is all out of frequencies..)
Whether the Qatar-Australia bilateral follows this, I don't know.

Unfortunately this isn't true. CX's route HKG-CNS-BNE-CNS-HKG does count towards the bilateral limit, as did the HKG-ADL-MEL-HKG. CX delinked ADL and MEL meaning it gave MEL an extra flight in its own right and chose to operate ADL interdependently as it isn't restricted. Same thing will no doubt happen with the HKG-CNS-BNE route, though as CNS is a seasonal market, whether it can stand by itself year round without the BNE tag is the question and maybe why it hasn't been delinked yet, nothing to do with the bilateral.

ZK-NBT wrote:

Quoting zkncj (Reply 102):
but I don't see IAH going 789 anytime soon.

I had heard that NZ were considering changing all EDTO>180-min. to the789. EZE is going in October, I believe. This would leave IAH.

Extending ADL to MEL is only going to make things worse IMO. Judging by some of the sale fares floating around here in Sydney at the moment, they should be deploying the A380 into MEL and sending something much smaller (ie the A350) into SYD.

I would have thought extending ADL to AKL would be a more sensible alternative. There's an opportunity there for a OW airline to plug the gap in QF's network plus it drives a bit of extra traffic through ADL and gets them into the NZ market without having to do an insane ULH service.

[quote="wj888"]Keenly awaiting the QR loads into ADL.
BITRE is showing March loads at this time, FWIW it shows that QR had a total of 92 flights to/from Aus. in March; inbound LF 65% outbound 90.7%

Anybody know the tail number of the JQ that returned to SYD today because of the smell in the back of the cabin? I saw something briefly on the news tonight about this.

777Jet wrote:

Anybody know the tail number of the JQ that returned to SYD today because of the smell in the back of the cabin? I saw something briefly on the news tonight about this.

It was JQ517 SYD-MEL, operated by A321 VH-VWX

qf002 wrote:

Extending ADL to MEL is only going to make things worse IMO. Judging by some of the sale fares floating around here in Sydney at the moment, they should be deploying the A380 into MEL and sending something much smaller (ie the A350) into SYD.

I would have thought extending ADL to AKL would be a more sensible alternative. There's an opportunity there for a OW airline to plug the gap in QF's network plus it drives a bit of extra traffic through ADL and gets them into the NZ market without having to do an insane ULH service.

Any idea if an A350 would be able to operate ADL-WLG with WLG's existing runway? Im guessing it would probably be OK WLG-ADL but not sure of the landing at WLG. Seems like it would be a good size aircraft for an ME3 operator.

VA has secured traffic rights for both HKG & PEK

http://australianaviation.com.au/2016/0 ... g-beijing/

qf789 wrote:

VA has secured traffic rights for both HKG & PEK

http://australianaviation.com.au/2016/0 ... g-beijing/

First step, though as the article says:

In addition to traffic rights, Virgin will also need to obtain the necessary takeoff and landing slots at busy Beijing and Hong Kong airports.

JB couldn't confirm how much of the flying would actually be on Virgin metal.

allrite wrote:

JB couldn't confirm how much of the flying would actually be on Virgin metal.

SYD/MEL-PEK (if chosen) would need to be on VA metal since CA already flies these routes, ruling HU out.

^^ thats the complication, which only really leaves BNE (PEK) and PER (PVG and PEK) as options HU can operate themselves.

In other news:
http://melbourneairport.com.au/news-eve ... -2002.html

Melbourne Airport’s streak of consecutive month-on-month growth continued in May with a total of 8.3 per cent more international visitors to the world’s most livable city and sporting capital, than the same time last year.

International passengers reached 685,555 while domestic passengers grew by 3.9 per cent compared to last year, totalling 1,962,557 passengers. This compares favourably to national domestic aviation growth rates of less than 2%1 last month.

The south east Asia market recorded 23.5 per cent growth by international passports, which was dominated by Singapore (57.7%) and followed by Malaysia (25.1%) and India (10.1%).

Other strong performing markets included USA (+11.0%), China (9.3%), UK (+3.6%) and Germany (3.4%).

HU files preliminary Changsha - Sydney schedule starting mid September

HU7997 CSX1825 – 0635+1SYD 330 15
HU7998 SYD0820 – 1630CSX 330 26

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... poct-2016/

qf789 wrote:

HU files preliminary Changsha - Sydney schedule starting mid September

HU7997 CSX1825 – 0635+1SYD 330 15
HU7998 SYD0820 – 1630CSX 330 26

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... poct-2016/

Prime time slots at Sydney.
How did they manage these? Would have thought they'd be highly sought after.

qf789 wrote:

777Jet wrote:

Anybody know the tail number of the JQ that returned to SYD today because of the smell in the back of the cabin? I saw something briefly on the news tonight about this.

It was JQ517 SYD-MEL, operated by A321 VH-VWX

Thank you.

QF has reopened its premium contact centre in HBA today and concurrently announced:

* 11x peak day services upgauged from Q400 to B712 on MEL-LST vv.;
* some peak day services upgauged from B712 to B738 on MEL-HBA vv.;
* additional services on SYD-HBA vv. in support of the Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race; and
* the return of seasonal BNE-HBA vv. services in December and January.

None of these operational changes are currently reflected on the airline's website.

http://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media- ... -tasmania/

NZ sale of VA stake to Nanshan completed

Air New Zealand has confirmed the sale of 19.98 per cent of Virgin Australia shares to Chinese conglomerate Nanshan Group.

The sale, first announced on June 10, was completed on Tuesday, the company said in a statement to the Australian Securities Exchange.

“As a result of the sale, Air New Zealand’s holding in Virgin Australia is approximately 5.9 per cent,” the company said.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2016/0 ... completed/

ZK-NBT wrote:

Quoting zkncj (Reply 102):
While seasonal for NZ to a degree they first announced it as a seasonal route but saw enough demand to make it year round from the start. They have grown it from 2/3 weekly off peak to 4/5 weekly most of the year and from 3/4 weekly to daily in peak season. So it's a growing route, I'm not sure of the yields some say they will use a more appropriately configured 789, it's a long route only IAH is longer for them but I don't see IAH going 789 anytime soon.

YVR isn't a profit maker for NZ. But does help in the overall network side of things. NZ will be looking to the 789 to allow for greater frequency while lowering costs.
For IAH it is a different market and has a lot of premium travellers which is why the 777 is on it. YVR by comparison is mostly leisure.

Zkpilot wrote:

ZK-NBT wrote:

Quoting zkncj (Reply 102):
While seasonal for NZ to a degree they first announced it as a seasonal route but saw enough demand to make it year round from the start. They have grown it from 2/3 weekly off peak to 4/5 weekly most of the year and from 3/4 weekly to daily in peak season. So it's a growing route, I'm not sure of the yields some say they will use a more appropriately configured 789, it's a long route only IAH is longer for them but I don't see IAH going 789 anytime soon.

YVR isn't a profit maker for NZ. But does help in the overall network side of things. NZ will be looking to the 789 to allow for greater frequency while lowering costs.
For IAH it is a different market and has a lot of premium travellers which is why the 777 is on it. YVR by comparison is mostly leisure.

Interesting if true. Hopefully if YVR goes 789 it will be close to daily most of the year, I'd imagine with 20% lower fuel burn and a more leisure config the 789 should make a difference immediately if the extra Y seats can be filled. How about freight? As with that many seats if there is a lot of freight they could take a hit particularly on YVR-AKL. IAH is doing well since it's already increased frequency, do we no if it's profitable yet?

QF29 wrote:

Qatar is set to announce a second flight into MEL. This will be a continuation from the ADL service. Route looks to be as following DOH-ADL-MEL-DOH

Hmm Having a second service makes sense, I believe MEL is very freight heavy for QR and they make some good money - up gauging to a 380 wouldn't help this ex-MEL. However a flight out of ADL maybe tricky to crew DOH-ADL-MEL I would have thought would have been too long a rostered duty, could be done in a diversion with crew extending, but I would doubt even QR would allow a tag on from a sector that long, and the reverse ADL-MEL-DOH would be too long. ADL-MEL with a fresh crew would seem an expensive option.

Flyingsottsman wrote:

Does any body know how the China Airlines loads are going at Melbourne? Are CI happy with the loads?

Melbourne airport reported a 75% increase in the number of Taiwanese passport holders traveling through MEL compared to May15, and Taiwain has been a growing market from MEL for some time. Not that passports, and months provide an accurate idea of loads, yields and profit - but a good sign. Korea and Canada were two markets that also so some growth 19.9% for Korea, and 12% for Canada.

I personally don't think we will see too many new routes out AU, I think things will plateau - however KE/OZ, and AC would seem eventual contenders in the mid-Term

With Regard to NZ and 789 to YVR (first scheduled MEL flight was this week as a side note) I think low season 789 would work, but then switch back to a 772 over northern winter - I would have thought business would have been full with chashed up skiers.

smi0006 wrote:

ADL-MEL with a fresh crew would seem an expensive option.

Given the ADL Curfew the flight will more than likely be retimed to an earlier arrival into ADL (not sure of the QR departure waves ex DOH, but a couple of hours earlier would work) and then I assume that a fresh crew would fly the ADL-MEL-ADL legs. So assumed crew rotation would be DOH-ADL/Rest/ADL-MEL-ADL/Rest/ADL-DOH.

It's a guess but as you say I doubt that a stopover would work with duty limits.

Cheers,
Boof

Edited 22/6 to correct the ADL-MEL-ADL routing because I was tired last night....

Boof wrote:

smi0006 wrote:

ADL-MEL with a fresh crew would seem an expensive option.

Given the ADL Curfew the flight will more than likely be retimed to an earlier arrival into ADL (not sure of the QR departure waves ex DOH, but a couple of hours earlier would work) and then I assume that a fresh crew would fly the ADL-MEL-ADL legs. So assumed crew rotation would be DOH-ADL/Rest/ADL-MEL-ADL/Rest/ADL-DOH.

It's a guess but as you say I doubt that a stopover would work with duty limits.

Cheers,
Boof

Edited 22/6 to correct the ADL-MEL-ADL routing because I was tired last night....

Pretty sure the suggestion is it will be a triangular routing of DOH-ADL-MEL-DOH, as opposed to a tag-on from ADL to MEL and back.

Hmm Having a second service makes sense, I believe MEL is very freight heavy for QR and they make some good money - up gauging to a 380 wouldn't help this ex-MEL. However a flight out of ADL maybe tricky to crew DOH-ADL-MEL I would have thought would have been too long a rostered duty, could be done in a diversion with crew extending, but I would doubt even QR would allow a tag on from a sector that long, and the reverse ADL-MEL-DOH would be too long. ADL-MEL with a fresh crew would seem an expensive option.

Currently QR sends some of its MEL cargo through PER, at least 2 pallets a day. There is talk of QR starting a dedicated freighter service to Australia in 2017.

http://atwonline.com/node/212841

In regards to crewing the MEL-DOH sector would require 2 lots of flight crew during the duration of the flight, since QR doesn't operate the A350 into MEL how are they going to get the crew there. Hypothetically if they did use a single crew on just ADL-MEL they would need another 2 lots of flight crew for the next sector, I would imagine this could be a logistical nightmare. Instead of a DOH-ADL-MEL-DOH sector could we see a DOH-MEL-ADL-MEL-DOH, that would be much easier from a crewing perspective.

I know this has been mentioned before but rather than starting a daily service, they should have started at a 3-4 weekly service and grown the route from there. That's what they did when they started PER

http://www.theqatarsource.com/new-routes-for-2012/

TruemanQLD wrote:

Pretty sure the suggestion is it will be a triangular routing of DOH-ADL-MEL-DOH, as opposed to a tag-on from ADL to MEL and back.

My apologies, I totally missed that bit!!

Wouldn't this kill off the outbound pax traffic ex ADL? Why use QR and go via MEL when you can go on EK direct to DXB and have similar connections to Europe? Current timing of the ADL flight and a tag on to MEL would put the return to DOH not long after QR905 leaves, so two flights within an hour or so of one another.

I get the need for more cargo uplift but this seems odd to me.

VA completes $159 million share placement with HNA

Virgin Australia has received a $159 million boost to its balance sheet after completing a share placement to Chinese airline and tourism company HNA Group.

The company said on Thursday the transaction, first announced on May 31, was finalised after HNA received the necessary approvals from Chinese authorities.

HNA was expected to have a board seat after purchasing its 13 per cent stake

EY, SQ & Virgin Group now have a reduced share

Figures from Virgin indicated Singapore Airlines’ stake would fall from 22.8 per cent to 19.8 per cent following the HNA share placement, while Etihad Airways would fall from 24.2 per cent to 21 per cent and Sir Richard Branson’s UK-based Virgin Group holding would be eight per cent, from 10 per cent currently.

Air New Zealand would retain a minor residual shareholding of about 2.5 per cent after selling the bulk of its stake in Virgin to Chinese conglomerate Nanshan Group.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2016/0 ... -with-hna/

Boof wrote:

Wouldn't this kill off the outbound pax traffic ex ADL? Why use QR and go via MEL when you can go on EK direct to DXB and have similar connections to Europe? .

Time will tell, but yeah I think you're right, it will kill the Adelaide outbound, unless there's significant discounting. And if the ADL outbound is not selling, I think we can say goodbye to this route soon enough.

I'm from ADL and was really keen to try them on my next trip to Europe early next year, but unless its significantly cheaper, there's no way I'm doing a 2 stop via MEL when l can have one stop on SQ, MH or EK.

Does VA charge more taxes than other airlines?
I've been planning some flights and when I compare NZ with VA for example at around the same fare, VA are more expensive and I can only put that down to taxes.
Is that right?
And why is that?

Noticed something happened to last nights UA99 so didn't go out
UAL 2055 is scheduled to land in MEL shortly making it the 2nd UA 787 this morning.
Looks like the previous flight got cancelled.

So, Qantas has at most a couple of years to add a European destination if it wants to say it flies to Europe.