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Spacepope
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Re: Will Amazon Prime Air be able to deliver all the Christmas gifts on time?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:53 pm

LeCoqFrancais wrote:
ILNFlyer wrote:
They have never stopped using FedEx and UPS. ATI, ABX and Atlas are also used. More pilot union drivel after they got their butts kicked in court.

I'm pretty sure all of the Amazon Prime Air planes are operated by Atlas Air actually.


You are completely wrong, as Atlas only flies 1 aircraft for Amazon. There is an already existing thread on all of this located here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=607515

Mods please merge threads
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:05 pm

Milestone: N311AZ, N313AZ and N307AZ are all in the air simultaneously on ATI revenue runs. So that's three 767-300s in Prime Air colors operated by ATI. The fourth, of course, is operated by Atlas.

The rest of the Amazon "fleet" is of course 767-200s for now. The next 763 coming to ATI is presently-scheduled by March. (N359AZ/N388CM, a formerly-AA 763).
 
FX1816
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Re: Will Amazon Prime Air be able to deliver all the Christmas gifts on time?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:11 pm

LeCoqFrancais wrote:
ILNFlyer wrote:
They have never stopped using FedEx and UPS. ATI, ABX and Atlas are also used. More pilot union drivel after they got their butts kicked in court.

I'm pretty sure all of the Amazon Prime Air planes are operated by Atlas Air actually.


No they are not, N1997A is the only aircraft that Atlas is operating for the operation at all. All of the other Prime Air 763's are operated by ATI.
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:44 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Milestone: N311AZ, N313AZ and N307AZ are all in the air simultaneously on ATI revenue runs. So that's three 767-300s in Prime Air colors operated by ATI. The fourth, of course, is operated by Atlas.

The rest of the Amazon "fleet" is of course 767-200s for now. The next 763 coming to ATI is presently-scheduled by March. (N359AZ/N388CM, a formerly-AA 763).


I like the Prime Air livery on those 763's.
 
bravoindia
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:59 pm

3 Prime AIR liveries at ABE today one GTI two ATI. Tried for a picture. Really cool to see though, all -300s
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:14 pm

bravoindia wrote:
3 Prime AIR liveries at ABE today one GTI two ATI. Tried for a picture. Really cool to see though, all -300s


Yessssss.
 
bluejuice
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:44 pm

Interesting article on how Amazon is using their leased fleet. As many have stated, they are given operational flexibility. Shipments can go directly to airports close to their warehouses. As flights go point to point and do not pass through hubs, planes can leave later with orders placed by customers in the evening. One notable items is the planes are loaded with light and bulky packages. Pretty darn smart IMHO. In my work on the logistics side, the big shippers charge a premium on large items despite their light weight. Amazon now simply handles these themselves. The savings on fuel is probably not trivial either.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazo ... SKBN14C1K4
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jbs2886
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:07 pm

bluejuice wrote:
Interesting article on how Amazon is using their leased fleet. As many have stated, they are given operational flexibility. Shipments can go directly to airports close to their warehouses. As flights go point to point and do not pass through hubs, planes can leave later with orders placed by customers in the evening. One notable items is the planes are loaded with light and bulky packages. Pretty darn smart IMHO. In my work on the logistics side, the big shippers charge a premium on large items despite their light weight. Amazon now simply handles these themselves. The savings on fuel is probably not trivial either.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazo ... SKBN14C1K4


That's a great article, thanks for sharing! Beyond the scheduling stuff which is interesting, I think one of the biggest catalysts for this was the increasing fees for size versus weight. While UPS and FedEx probably aren't losing business, they aren't gaining what they would have gotten without increasing those fees as amazon.com needs low cost and fast shipping for Prime to work.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:41 am

This article actually just scratches the surface. Those who follow this thread know everything in it, and more, but for the highly-dubious load statistics.
 
CX747
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:18 am

The article had some great information. Great to see an American company with strong growth moving forward. Do we know what the long term effects of Amazon is having on the 767 second hand market? The article states that Amazon is going to need "more planes". Does that mean more than what they currently have? Or does it mean more than 40?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:45 am

CX747 wrote:
The article had some great information. Great to see an American company with strong growth moving forward. Do we know what the long term effects of Amazon is having on the 767 second hand market? The article states that Amazon is going to need "more planes". Does that mean more than what they currently have? Or does it mean more than 40?


Amazon tightened up the secondhand 767-300 market somewhat when the announcement came. However, both Atlas (Titan) and ATSG (CAM) have already sourced all the aircraft they need to fill the requirement, along with the necessary slots. CAM is sticking with IAI/Bedek for the remaining 5 Amazon frames, and actually has numerous additional slots and sourced aircraft for other customers. Titan is using a mixture of slots at IAI/Bedek and additional BCF slots made available to it. The CAM aircraft will all be delivered by mid-2017. The Atlas ones (other than the one they have flying) should start coming out of conversion in mid-2017, although a poster on here insists it's sooner. Regardless, they will be delivered through Y/E 2018.

So there's no real current pressure on the market. That said, if Amazon wants to add more planes (the rumor is 20 more), it has enough lead time to think about new for the far end of the range, and should be in the middle of a pretty-good buyers market as more 767s come out of service as the 787s and other aircraft replace them in passenger service.

I think the big issue for them right now is the reliability of the pilot part of the equation, given that Local 1224, IBT Airline Division, represents ABX, Kalitta and Atlas, and has been willing to go the absolute ends of legality to screw up Amazon's business in terms of job action, and is willing to do the same in PR and say that Amazon might not be able to deliver for Christmas because their pilots are too tired. That's something that has to give any corporate customer pause. Their activity had minimal effect on actual operations, but if dependability is the issue, using 1224 carriers might be something they are rethinking. The head of Northern Air Cargo is apparently a friend of Bezos, but his tiny airline is also IBT, albeit a different local, and probably doesn't have the tribal knowledge and management depth, at least in the short term, to handle more than a few aircraft. And other than ATI, there really isn't anyone else. Jim Neff certainly has the resume, but his current operation (Western Global) isn't really in a position to step up to a 7-days-a-week track charter of 20 planes, and it will be unionized soon enough if it were to pull something like that off.

The article in question totally misses the point that Prime Air is set up primarily to do 2-day delivery; the other carriers are optimized (at least as regards their nighttime flights discussed in the article) for overnight delivery. So the outbound flights at the ILN cross-dock operation can leave in the middle of the day with stuff that isn't going to be delivered that day. Yeah, maybe the ONT-ABE leg arrives early enough to do same day if it's given to Lasership, but it isn't early enough to run through Avenel and get to the USPS before the that-day delivery cutoff. So there's a fundamental misunderstanding of the operation that wouldn't exist if they had read this whole thread.
 
MEMbrain
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:14 pm

What about the new President of ABX Air? Who was brought in for the sole purpose of shutting it down like he did at Comair.
 
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Acey559
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:36 pm

MEMbrain wrote:
What about the new President of ABX Air? Who was brought in for the sole purpose of shutting it down like he did at Comair.


After I read that email, I was wondering what his role will be. Seeing he came from Comair and Southern, one could read between the lines, but I can't imagine ABX getting shut down. But I guess we will see what direction things go after peak is over.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:53 pm

MEMbrain wrote:
What about the new President of ABX Air? Who was brought in for the sole purpose of shutting it down like he did at Comair.


There isn't the slightest possibility he is going to shut down ABX Air. That's just stupid. The shareholders would have the heads of the people at ATSG on a stick.

A lot of guys who end up shutting down carriers (and I knew one 25 years ago) come in the door being sold a line of bull about how the thing can be turned around with some management changes, get a real look at the books, and go "Holy crap." I don't know this guy, but I'm not sure he was brought into those carriers expecting the outcome that happened.

It does appear that he has a reputation for being aggressive with labor. I think we should just wait and see how it goes.
 
MEMbrain
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:26 pm

Again, you are wrong. Amazon told Hete that if he wants to keep their business, he must shut down ABX. Bezos is vindictive and this is his retaliation for the ABX strike. Soaper was brought in for this purpose. Stark's "retirement" is just a buyout and a cover story for Soaper.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:44 pm

MEMbrain wrote:
Again, you are wrong. Amazon told Hete that if he wants to keep their business, he must shut down ABX. Bezos is vindictive and this is his retaliation for the ABX strike. Soaper was brought in for this purpose. Stark's "retirement" is just a buyout and a cover story for Soaper.


Delusional. ABX is a much-bigger carrier than just the 6 planes that service Amazon.

So I am no longer going to Feed The Troll.
 
MEMbrain
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:53 pm

ATSG is going to purchase SAI from 5Y and use them for DHL.
 
MEMbrain
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:59 pm

wjcandee wrote:
MEMbrain wrote:
Again, you are wrong. Amazon told Hete that if he wants to keep their business, he must shut down ABX. Bezos is vindictive and this is his retaliation for the ABX strike. Soaper was brought in for this purpose. Stark's "retirement" is just a buyout and a cover story for Soaper.


Delusional. ABX is a much-bigger carrier than just the 6 planes that service Amazon.

So I am no longer going to Feed The Troll.



You are just the typical A.net armchair CEO who knows nothing about this industry. I work there and I know what's going on the inside. Hete hates his 1224 pilots and this is his chance to get rid of them.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:03 pm

MEMbrain wrote:
ATSG is going to purchase SAI from 5Y and use them for DHL.


Right. They are going to substitute one 1224-represented carrier for another. Genius.

And I'm sure Atlas will give them a great price for a carrier that will be used to compete with Atlas for DHL work. With 35+ aircraft of a fleet type Southern doesn't now fly.

At least you're a creative Troll.
 
MEMbrain
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:05 pm

wjcandee wrote:
MEMbrain wrote:
ATSG is going to purchase SAI from 5Y and use them for DHL.


Right. They are going to substitute one 1224-represented carrier for another. Genius.

At least you're a creative Troll.



Substitute a high paying pilot with one that's paid peanuts.... Genius.
 
MajMattMason
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:44 am

MEMbrain wrote:
You are just the typical A.net armchair CEO who knows nothing about this industry. I work there and I know what's going on the inside. Hete hates his 1224 pilots and this is his chance to get rid of them.


Wait......what?
Before you were banned from APC web board, you used to sell the idea you worked for FDX. Now you work at ABX?? Which is it??
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:58 am

MEMbrain wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
MEMbrain wrote:
ATSG is going to purchase SAI from 5Y and use them for DHL.


Right. They are going to substitute one 1224-represented carrier for another. Genius.

At least you're a creative Troll.



Substitute a high paying pilot with one that's paid peanuts.... Genius.


If that's what Amazon wanted to do, while keeping 1224 pilots, -- and I don't see any reason why it would be since they don't actually employ the pilots -- they would just move the a/c to Atlas, where 767 drivers work on a lower wage scale than ABX pilots, and in practice make an order of magnitude less than the ABX pilots, at least until the ABX guys shot the golden-egg-laying Open Time / Junior Man goose.
 
MEMbrain
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:07 am

MajMattMason wrote:
MEMbrain wrote:
You are just the typical A.net armchair CEO who knows nothing about this industry. I work there and I know what's going on the inside. Hete hates his 1224 pilots and this is his chance to get rid of them.


Wait......what?
Before you were banned from APC web board, you used to sell the idea you worked for FDX. Now you work at ABX?? Which is it??


It's the internet, you identify as whomever or whatever you like.
 
MEMbrain
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:09 am

wjcandee wrote:
MEMbrain wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

Right. They are going to substitute one 1224-represented carrier for another. Genius.

At least you're a creative Troll.



Substitute a high paying pilot with one that's paid peanuts.... Genius.


If that's what Amazon wanted to do, while keeping 1224 pilots, -- and I don't see any reason why it would be since they don't actually employ the pilots -- they would just move the a/c to Atlas, where 767 drivers work on a lower wage scale than ABX pilots, and in practice make an order of magnitude less than the ABX pilots, at least until the ABX guys shot the golden-egg-laying Open Time / Junior Man goose.


ABX's staffing trouble is going to rear it's head again as ABX pilots on APC are now actively diverting interested applicants to other airlines.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:15 am

MEMbrain wrote:
MajMattMason wrote:
MEMbrain wrote:
You are just the typical A.net armchair CEO who knows nothing about this industry. I work there and I know what's going on the inside. Hete hates his 1224 pilots and this is his chance to get rid of them.


Wait......what?
Before you were banned from APC web board, you used to sell the idea you worked for FDX. Now you work at ABX?? Which is it??


It's the internet, you identify as whomever or whatever you like.


Does this mean you cannot be trusted to represent yourself properly? If so, why should anything you say be taken seriously?
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
CX747
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:47 pm

How did the "airline" operate in during PEAK?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:12 pm

CX747 wrote:
How did the "airline" operate in during PEAK?


A couple of hiccups. Mechanicals on at least 2 of the 763s that delayed some flights. A couple of very-late flights (5+ hours). Other late flights, presumably due to mechanicals. But overall, more or less on time. Most of the issues were on the ATI side, as far as I could see. ATI had no issue having enough pilots, just enough reliable aircraft. None of my Amazon orders during peak appeared to fly on Prime Air, whereas a few had come that way previously.

The USPS component, at least in NYC and Long Island, was uber-reliable. Anything Amazon got to the local post office in the morning was delivered that day. On Long Island on Saturday 12/24, we got several boxes from the mailman -- at about 7am. They were up early and getting it done. Several other packages came through the AMZL (in-house) local delivery during the week. Everything arrived as scheduled, except a pair of huge Channel Locks that were supposed to come on Tuesday via Next Day delivery; they arrived on-time at Avenel, but then didn't get through sorting and out the door for about 24 hours, which is extremely-unusual. Once it got through Avenel, they got it to my NYC post office in the normal course (i.e. withing a couple of hours) and the box arrived on Wednesday. Amazon refunded the shipping (which was just the next-day upcharge) without me even asking; in fact, I got the refund notice before I got the pliers.
 
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atypical
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:55 am

Boof02671 wrote:
atypical wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Frank Lorenzo killed EA, not Charlie Bryan, learn the whole story.

Frank Lorenzo is the only man banned from ever being associated with an airline again.

The Battle of Eastern Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSSPAM3vauw

Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mya5HUDOWX0

And the strike isnt illegal, the RLA was made to prevent the stoppage of Interstate Commerce, that is why the judge ordered them back to work.



The ban of Lorenzo is a myth. The government can't take away someone's rights without due process. He may be under some kind of an effective ban but there is nothing legally preventing him from owning another airline. The only statements about this ban are anecdotal and no one has presented anything from the government confirming this assertion. Maybe someone has evidence but in my searches I have never seen any. I think this is a story of wishful thinking more than anything else.

It was under the Clinton administration.

An administrative law judge flat out banned Lorenzo and some of his compatriots from having any involvement in positions that involved airline operations, largely because of the safety concerns of allowing people so obsessed with cutting costs and screwing labor over having anything to do with flight operations or technical operations.

One of our former senior executives, Steve Kolski, was one of them. He was one of Lorenzo's attorneys during the Eastern days. When Lorenzo tried to start up another airline called ATX in the '90s, he put Kolski in charge of it, thinking that having his name on it instead of his own would get it through the DOT. Didn't work. The ALJ refused to approve their application, citing all of the compliance problems at Eastern that both of them oversaw.


The statement was an interpretation of the judges statement however there is no legal ruling that actually proves the contention. That's the only statement that matters and which does not exist.
 
bravoindia
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:32 am

Word is ABE is building a cargo facility next to the ramp to sort the shipments from plane to truck and truck to plane. Also talk of adding a cargo spot or two as we only have 5, 2 FedEx 3 Amazon. Lastly the sources are saying that 50% increase in ABE Amazon traffic in 2017 as compared to 2016. Any ideas ?
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:37 am

It only takes a couple more flights and 763s instead of 762s to get a 50% ramp up. Sounds reasonable to me. I don't think you will see a full-on sort. It's not really necessary. However, with more stuff coming in, you necessarily have more stuff to organize as you Cross Dock the stuff to and from the trucks. It's more like they are building and breaking down pallets at the airport.
 
bravoindia
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:43 am

Perhaps I phrased it wrong. All they are doing is putting in a small building to get the stuff onto the correct trucks to take to Avenal or wherever (there is a giant new facility on route 33) as well as the 50% not being volume but operations.
Jet-A, coffee, headset.
 
MajMattMason
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:48 am

wjcandee wrote:
It only takes a couple more flights and 763s instead of 762s to get a 50% ramp up. Sounds reasonable to me. I don't think you will see a full-on sort. It's not really necessary. However, with more stuff coming in, you necessarily have more stuff to organize as you Cross Dock the stuff to and from the trucks. It's more like they are building and breaking down pallets at the airport.


The issue is the freight arrives at the opposite end of the airport and is tugged over to the cargo ramp. Rather cumbersome and time consuming. They were talking about construction of the building BI mentioned last Nov 2015 and we all thought ground breaking would've happened last spring. Good to hear this project is getting some traction as an Amazon facility next to the ramp like FDX has is sorely needed.
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:52 am

ZKNCL wrote:
United_fan wrote:
I'd love to see a 727 return to the skies.

Just as likely as flying pigs operating for Amazon.


Please, don't give them any more "out of the box" thinking ideas...
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:39 am

bravoindia wrote:
Perhaps I phrased it wrong. All they are doing is putting in a small building to get the stuff onto the correct trucks to take to Avenal or wherever (there is a giant new facility on route 33) as well as the 50% not being volume but operations.


Got it, BI. And thank you, Major. I wasn't being critical or negative -- I appreciate the info. I was thinking a 50% volume increase meant stuff not planes, so 50 percent would be a couple more flights, which is totally-doable. If the aircraft are available, I would think even more.

As to putting a building next to the ramp, I am happy to hear that. At LVIA, the Airport Authority was hired to employ and direct the workers, so they started out by putting a building into use that they already had available. A "safe" decision, but a non-optimal one as far as having to dray the stuff over there from the cargo ramp. That little 5-spot pad was plenty for FDX, but with the Amazon flights, it wasn't going to be enough for very long. As a public authority, LVIAA is of course cautious; they can see their brethren burned by the likes of G4, but I guess they are confident enough in the stability of the operation now to step up and spend the $$ to expand the cargo ramp and do the transfers right next to the plane to save time. A very nice development.
 
n797mx
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:51 am

Looks like N370AA was ferried to TLV today.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N370AA
Clear skies and strong tail winds.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:15 am

n797mx wrote:
Looks like N370AA was ferried to TLV today.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N370AA


Yep. I noticed that, but didn't add it here because it's not one of the CAM conversions scheduled currently to go to Amazon; it's for another customer. Unless, of course, Amazon wants it and makes an arrangement to add it to the currently-scheduled 8 ATSG 763s.
 
bravoindia
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:50 pm

Yes hopefully enough traction and stability to pull the trigger they pulled in north of a couple million in revenues just from Amazon. Unfortunately the tug train of cars to and from each aircraft over approximately a mile leads to a mess ( oil and debris from tugs on maintenance roads as well as the wrap and rolls to secure the boxes under the net. Ops is constantly having to pick up the wrapping sometimes unraveled for hundreds of feet. Only takes one to ingest that into a CF6 and they'll make a change.
Jet-A, coffee, headset.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:53 pm

bravoindia wrote:
Yes hopefully enough traction and stability to pull the trigger they pulled in north of a couple million in revenues just from Amazon. Unfortunately the tug train of cars to and from each aircraft over approximately a mile leads to a mess ( oil and debris from tugs on maintenance roads as well as the wrap and rolls to secure the boxes under the net. Ops is constantly having to pick up the wrapping sometimes unraveled for hundreds of feet. Only takes one to ingest that into a CF6 and they'll make a change.


Shows the difference between concept ("We'll just us a tug train to haul them to our existing building! Genius!) and reality ("Look at all this crappy oil, debris, and wrapping all over the place from the dang tug trains! Genius!")
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:18 pm

MEMbrain wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
MEMbrain wrote:


Substitute a high paying pilot with one that's paid peanuts.... Genius.


If that's what Amazon wanted to do, while keeping 1224 pilots, -- and I don't see any reason why it would be since they don't actually employ the pilots -- they would just move the a/c to Atlas, where 767 drivers work on a lower wage scale than ABX pilots, and in practice make an order of magnitude less than the ABX pilots, at least until the ABX guys shot the golden-egg-laying Open Time / Junior Man goose.


ABX's staffing trouble is going to rear it's head again as ABX pilots on APC are now actively diverting interested applicants to other airlines.


That's weird. They have lots of applications and many pilots asked if they 'had' to join the union.
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:20 pm

MEMbrain wrote:
Again, you are wrong. Amazon told Hete that if he wants to keep their business, he must shut down ABX. Bezos is vindictive and this is his retaliation for the ABX strike. Soaper was brought in for this purpose. Stark's "retirement" is just a buyout and a cover story for Soaper.


Pure, un-adulterated BS.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:07 pm

wjcandee wrote:
n797mx wrote:
Looks like N370AA was ferried to TLV today.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N370AA


Yep. I noticed that, but didn't add it here because it's not one of the CAM conversions scheduled currently to go to Amazon; it's for another customer. Unless, of course, Amazon wants it and makes an arrangement to add it to the currently-scheduled 8 ATSG 763s.


I'm still getting my popcorn ready for fleet issues in the coming year. We've seen a few issues pop up with the 762s and the "new" 763s were rode hard and put away wet even before conversion. Yes, ATSG claims they'll be good for 20 years after conversion, but older airframes with those kinds of cycle and hour counts will always need more TLC than newer ones.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:55 pm

One advantage that ABX has is the slack in its fleet that allows it to cover aircraft that have issues (and to run cover flights for ATI). It's going to be hard for ATI to maintain reliability when all of its aircraft are assigned to a route and are expected to run 7 days a week. Some improved maintenance at outstations might help. Better when they can switch them out, one at a time, at ILN for some TLC. Some of the mechanicals were not age-related (cracked window, belt loader running into aircraft, etc.), but plainly some were typical gremlins of post-conversion and/or older aircraft.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:51 am

This may have been mentioned by someone, but Atlas is flying N632GT, an ex-Aeroflot 763, for FedEx in December (and still doing so as of tonight).

That newly-converted aircraft is going to become N1049A at some point, and fly for Amazon Prime Air. It was finished with conversion in TLV in November.

Not sure when Atlas is going to add this second 767-300 to its Amazon operations. She was in all-white when seen in TLV post-conversion on 11/28/16. She flew TLV-MEM on 11/30, and started on an MEM-GEG daily rotation right after that. So presumably she needs to be painted before GTI starts flying her for Amazon.

She's getting a good workout from FedEx, flying two daily roundtrips MEM-GEG on most days.
 
bravoindia
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:12 pm

Speaking of, FlightAware is incorrect ABX3111 is not at Tampa but back at ABE with gear issue, ironic talking about ATI breaking and ABX filling in. Well see if they bring in an extra from ILN, or if they fix it in time.
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MajMattMason
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:48 pm

bravoindia wrote:
Speaking of, FlightAware is incorrect ABX3111 is not at Tampa but back at ABE with gear issue, ironic talking about ATI breaking and ABX filling in. Well see if they bring in an extra from ILN, or if they fix it in time.


Gear, hydraulic problem I understand.

Think ABX covering it themselves and ATI did their DFW.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:10 pm

BI: I'm sorry I didn't mean to suggest that only ATI was breaking. The ABX aircraft are breaking, too, but it's not as easy to spot the problems, at least for the ones that make it to ILN, because they just roll out a different frame or ferry one in from CVG. I can look quickly at where 791, 714, 255, 761, 762 and 763 are at any given time (along with the 767-300s: 311, 307 and 313), and know if they're operational. That said, some of the ATI pilots certainly are expressing the feeling that the 762s they are flying are in a condition you would expect of ABX cast-offs or lease returns from the likes of Cargojet and Amerijet. (The next 762 coming onboard at ATI is an Amerijet lease return, but it's going through a few months of heavy maintenance before it's going to come to ATI. Maybe that will help.) Several weeks ago, I noticed that ATI was pulling each 767-200 out of service, one at a time, for a couple of days of maintenance at ILN and having ABX cover one route. Not a panacea, but at least they were trying.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:43 pm

MajMattMason wrote:
bravoindia wrote:
Speaking of, FlightAware is incorrect ABX3111 is not at Tampa but back at ABE with gear issue, ironic talking about ATI breaking and ABX filling in. Well see if they bring in an extra from ILN, or if they fix it in time.


Gear, hydraulic problem I understand.

Think ABX covering it themselves and ATI did their DFW.


Looks like today ABX covered ATI's ILN-ABE and ILN-PHX, and ATI covered ABX's ILN-TPA.

ABX3111 ultimately took off again from ABE around 320pm and arrived TPA around 530pm -- six hours late.

What ABX did was to bring N773AX into ILN as ABX92 from EWR, and send it out as ABX3302 to ABE (replacing ATN3102). Then, 773AX unloaded the ILN stuff, loaded the stuff for TPA, and took off again as ABX3111 to TPA. Now it's about to depart TPA for PHX as ABX3109. I guess it will rotate through PHX and probably swap to run the return tomorrow morning of today's ABX ILN-PHX cover flight to get back to ILN, while N769AX, which is now in PHX having arrived as ABX3305 and is an aircraft that ABX typically uses on Amazon, can step into the PHX-ABE-TPA-PHX rotation. Then, if all works well, N750AX, which is the aircraft stuck in ABE, can cover ATN3101 in the morning as ABX3301 back to ILN and on to other Amazon assignments. N773AX, which is in DHL colors so not optimal for Amazon use, can hop from ILN to CVG after it arrives as ABX3306 from PHX to ILN in the morning.

A nice little ballet. One that leaves N307AZ in ILN for 24 hours, where AMES can give it a little TLC if it needs it.

The ability to pull something like this off, by the way, is precisely why no second-tier cargo airline is going to be able to replace ABX in operating a dedicated network for Amazon: they don't have the management/operational depth and fleet depth. It's going to be hard enough for Atlas as they scale up their number of flights; they have no experience whatsoever running a daily network like this, and don't tell me about their DHL work. It's comparatively-easy to do one or two or three (or even the 7 or 8 less-than-daily DHL 767-200 runs they do now), and the plane either flies or it doesn't, but when you yourself are actually trying to run a network of flights that depend on each other, it's a whole different ball of wax.
 
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Acey559
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:58 am

307 is in the hangar now getting the anti-skid DMI cleared. They're projecting it to be done later tonight/tomorrow.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
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11725Flyer
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:17 am

wjcandee wrote:
ABX3111 ultimately took off again from ABE around 320pm and arrived TPA around 530pm -- six hours late.

What ABX did was to bring N773AX into ILN as ABX92 from EWR, and send it out as ABX3302 to ABE (replacing ATN3102). Then, 773AX unloaded the ILN stuff, loaded the stuff for TPA, and took off again as ABX3111 to TPA. Now it's about to depart TPA for PHX as ABX3109. I guess it will rotate through PHX and probably swap to run the return tomorrow morning of today's ABX ILN-PHX cover flight to get back to ILN, while N769AX, which is now in PHX having arrived as ABX3305 and is an aircraft that ABX typically uses on Amazon, can step into the PHX-ABE-TPA-PHX rotation. Then, if all works well, N750AX, which is the aircraft stuck in ABE, can cover ATN3101 in the morning as ABX3301 back to ILN and on to other Amazon assignments. N773AX, which is in DHL colors so not optimal for Amazon use, can hop from ILN to CVG after it arrives as ABX3306 from PHX to ILN in the morning.


Thank you very much for the insight. I really enjoy reading everyone's contribution to the subject, if only because I'm an Amazon frequent shopper.
 
bravoindia
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Re: Amazon Fleet Growing

Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:11 am

No no I didn't mean it like that I'm not biased one way or another just funny timing that we were discussing mechanicals and one happened hours later
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