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Miami
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Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:59 pm

Quote:
Business stakeholders in Cape Town and Miami are pushing for direct nonstop flights between the two cities, both considered gateways to emerging markets — Florida to Latin America, and the Western Cape to the rest of Africa, CapeBusinessNews reported.

There’s a strong case for a direct flight between Cape Town and Miami, according to Western Cape tourism and business leaders with strong connections to the U.S. U.S. officials back that up.

Florida is the fourth largest economy in the U.S. with over 19 million residents and there is pent up demand for direct flights to Cape Town, said Abigail Ellary, director of Enterprise Florida, a public-private partnership between Florida’s business and government leaders. Enterprise Florida is the principal economic development organization for Florida.

Miami seems to be the destination that was the focus of the meeting, said van Rooyen, according to TourismUpdate.

Possible airlines could include American, United and Delta. “They are definitely approaching all the other airlines to see who would be prepared to fly in here,” Van Rooyen said. “The Miami flight would also open up a lot of South American business.”
http://afkinsider.com/127069/nonstop...m-miami-to-cape-town-on-the-table/


Thoughts?


-Miami   



[Edited 2016-06-07 11:56:01]
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:02 pm

ah yeah highly doubt Delta would consider this.

United maybe just because they need to fly it from somewhere and they are star alliance, but seems very hard to imagine.

AA looks the most likely with the feed MIA is the perfect location for that flight.
 
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compensateme
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:04 pm

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
Thoughts?

Yes, your title is deceptive. MIA desiring flights to CPT does not equate into "nonstop flights ... on the table." Every single airport in the world has its wish list, many with strong (but not strong enough) backing.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:11 pm

What's the business case for starting CPT flights when JNB doesn't yet have a MIA flight?
 
MIflyer12
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:20 pm

Quoting compensateme (Reply 2):
Yes, your title is deceptive. MIA desiring flights to CPT does not equate into "nonstop flights ... on the table." Every single airport in the world has its wish list, many with strong (but not strong enough) backing.

Wish list stuff, indeed. What's the evidence that daily MIA-CPT would be AA's best possible use for three 787-9s (or for 3 77Ls by DL ATL-CPT)?
 
commavia
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:25 pm

I don't think there is any realistic prospect at all for any airline other than AA or South African to fly nonstop between South Florida and South Africa, and if either or both of those carriers were seriously considering such a route, it's hard to imagine it going to CPT rather than JNB. While CPT is unquestionably the far, far larger draw for tourism, JNB is the far larger market - both for business traffic and in general. It would be awesome to see AA link South Africa nonstop with its MIA hub, although I must admit I don't see it happening anytime soon given the economic situation in South Africa at present.

[Edited 2016-06-07 11:38:35]
 
MAH4546
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:29 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 5):
It would be awesome to see link South Africa nonstop with its MIA hub, although I must admit I don't see it happening anytime soon given the economic situation in South Africa at present.

That economic situation is causing an explosion in European and American tourism arrivals, that have seen European carriers add a fair amount of capacity, from the return of Iberia, to Lufthansa reintroducing Frankfurt-Cape Town to British Airways increasing LHRCPT and adding LGWCPT, to Emirates and Turkish adding a fair bit of capacity across the country.

Not that I see AA getting into the market, it won't. And SAA is in too poor a state right now to launch a new long-haul to the States, but now is a very healthy time for inbound tourism to South Africa and air travel is healthy.
a.
 
commavia
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:40 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
That economic situation is causing an explosion in European and American tourism arrivals, that have seen European carriers add a fair amount of capacity, from the return of Iberia, to Lufthansa reintroducing Frankfurt-Cape Town to British Airways increasing LHRCPT and adding LGWCPT, to Emirates and Turkish adding a fair bit of capacity across the country.

No question about it. South Africa is an incredible country and an incredible tourist destination, but:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Not that I see AA getting into the market, it won't. And SAA is in too poor a state right now to launch a new long-haul to the States, but now is a very healthy time for inbound tourism to South Africa and air travel is healthy.

I agree. SAA has neither the resources nor the need to reestablish a nonstop link to South Florida, and I don't see AA going after the inbound tourist market given the softness in the rest of the South African economy, particularly given the extremely long stage length.

[Edited 2016-06-07 11:44:35]
 
a380787
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:41 pm

Now I'm curious to LH's rationale of previously only linking CPT to MUC but not to FRA .... any particular industrial / diaspora ties ?
 
MAH4546
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:46 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 8):
Now I'm curious to LH's rationale of previously only linking CPT to MUC but not to FRA .... any particular industrial / diaspora ties ?

It was moved to MUC in 2012 due to curfew restrictions at FRA. There are no particular ties to Munich.
a.
 
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Miami
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:55 pm

Quoting compensateme (Reply 2):
MIA desiring flights to CPT does not equate into "nonstop flights ... on the table." Every single airport in the world has its wish list, many with strong (but not strong enough) backing.

This has nothing to do with MIA officials wanting this. Why are you changing words?
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
a380787
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:57 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
It was moved to MUC in 2012 due to curfew restrictions at FRA. There are no particular ties to Munich.

I'm looking at the schedules now, and the MUC flight arrives/leaves in early evening, so I'm guessing LH re-timed it ?
 
winginit
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:01 pm

Won't happen in the near term.

Quoting commavia (Reply 5):

I don't think there is any realistic prospect at all for any airline other than AA or South African to fly nonstop between South Florida and South Africa, and if either or both of those carriers were seriously considering such a route, it's hard to imagine it going to CPT rather than JNB. While CPT is unquestionably the far, far larger draw for tourism, JNB is the far larger market - both for business traffic and in general. It would be awesome to see AA link South Africa nonstop with its MIA hub, although I must admit I don't see it happening anytime soon given the economic situation in South Africa at present.

and that's exactly why. Well said. By their own admission SA's long-haul routes are a complete disaster

Sidebar but what ever happened to that imminent Asia-MIA nonstop that some were saying was a sure thing to be announced late last year?

[Edited 2016-06-07 14:02:15]

[Edited 2016-06-07 14:04:03]
 
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Miami
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:11 pm

Quoting winginit (Reply 12):
Sidebar but what ever happened to that imminent Asia-MIA nonstop that some were saying was a sure thing to be announced late last year?

I guess there's no harm in saying it (even though I gave it away in that thread) but it wasn't Asia-Miami. It was SAA returning.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
winginit
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:20 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 13):
I guess there's no harm in saying it (even though I gave it away in that thread) but it wasn't Asia-Miami. It was SAA returning.

Then that for sure rules out SA for MIACPT, and given no American carrier would pick up South Africa - MIA except AA: we won't see this route for several years if it's going to materialize.

[Edited 2016-06-07 14:22:16]
 
jfk777
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:41 pm

In 1993 SAA started flying once weekly the MIA to Capetown to Johannesburg route which grew in frequency until it was daily. Then alliances came along and SAA acquired Delta as a mistress and quit Miami and flew Atlanta to Johannesburg. This also included JFK to Johannesburg too. Then for some political reason but not economic SAA joined the Star Alliance which didn't help it to the USA or the UK. All these years later how is that Star Aliance membership working for you ?
 
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GSPFlyer
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:40 am

It might be a smart move for AA to do a MIA-CPT-JNB flight with a 789 (once they have enough), rather than a MIA-JNB or MIA-CPT route. Of course, MIA-JNB would likely be a more viable route based off passenger and cargo traffic. It looks like MIA-JNB is 8,061 mi, which is shorter than the longest 789 route (8,446 mi on UA's SFO-SIN), but we all know JNB's altitude would restrict performance. MIA-CPT is 7,668 mi, and both cities are basically at sea-level. A 789 would definitely have the range, and a stop in CPT would allow them to leave JNB without major weight restrictions.
 
MKIAZ
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:31 am

RE: MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA. I think this option makes the most sense - but can they get the timing right? They can't have a very long stop at JNB or CPT since there will be connecting passengers, both departing from JNB and going to CPT on the JNB-CPT flight. And they're looking at ~2.5 frames to operate. They could use them on 2.5 secondary European cities from the east coast. The questions is what will make them more money.
 
TonyBurr
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:25 am

JNB by FAR is a better launching place for flights to other cities in Africa. CPT has few if any non stop flights to other African countries, you have to transfer in JNB. CPT makes no sense as a jumping off point for African countries.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:42 am

Quoting winginit (Reply 12):
Sidebar but what ever happened to that imminent Asia-MIA nonstop that some were saying was a sure thing to be announced late last year?

CX said they would be interested in launching HKG-MIA if they had a longer-range A359 in the future.
 
jfk777
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:21 am

Quoting GSPFlyer (Reply 16):
It might be a smart move for AA to do a MIA-CPT-JNB flight with a 789 (once they have enough), rather than a MIA-JNB or MIA-CPT route. Of course, MIA-JNB would likely be a more viable route based off passenger and cargo traffic. It looks like MIA-JNB is 8,061 mi, which is shorter than the longest 789 route (8,446 mi on UA's SFO-SIN), but we all know JNB's altitude would restrict performance. MIA-CPT is 7,668 mi, and both cities are basically at sea-level. A 789 would definitely have the range, and a stop in CPT would allow them to leave JNB without major weight restrictions

Whatever altitude problems Johannesburg creates Delta does fly nonstop to Atlanta with a 777-200LR which is around 8,800 miles. Miami being closer should be very viable.
 
winginit
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:33 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):
Whatever altitude problems Johannesburg creates Delta does fly nonstop to Atlanta with a 777-200LR which is around 8,800 miles. Miami being closer should be very viable.

With a 77L sure... which AA doesn't have and won't have.
 
divemaster08
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:44 pm

Having flown to CPT from GCM this year, I can say that connections from our region (central america/caribbean and SE USA) its not the easiest place to get to. Either up to JFK and then down to JNB on SA (which was how I went and even tho SA is struggling, great service I thought on the A346!) or up to ATL (which if you want to connect to CPT with DL, makes it more difficult due to the flight getting in late to JNB and then connections to CPT).

at least on GCM, there is a strong SA community here (all accountants it seems!) which while they cant provide enough lift to demand a service alone, there must be some business and others in the region that could help provide a service from MIA to Southern Africa. maybe not a daily service but 3x a week I would see working.

As for route, I would actually try for a MIA-CPT-JNB route and then back again. Reason? JNB is final stop and farthest to away from MIA, should mean no long layovers for thru PAX and then JNB has the better African connections and the business market. On the way back obviously you remove the problem with the Hot and High issues of JNB by heading to CPT first and then filling up with all holiday folk (and maybe a few containers of wine!) before heading home to MIA

As for Airline?
SA dont have the resources it seems unless they cut out some other route in frequency. could their A330 do the route?

AA would be my best guess, if they would take the risk. 787 maybe then up gauge to a 777 if demand is there?
My dream, is to fly, over the rainbow, so high!
 
octubre299
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:51 pm

I just booked an LAX-CPT via Dubai and for me on the west coast I would have loved having a Miami option as my one stop choice instead of schlepping all the way to Dubai. I would think I am not the only one who thinks the options for getting to South Africa form most of the USA are terrible.

Jeffrey
 
DiscoverCSG
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:05 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 4):
Wish list stuff, indeed. What's the evidence that daily MIA-CPT would be AA's best possible use for three 787-9s (or for 3 77Ls by DL ATL-CPT)?

This rotation could be done in 35-40 hours, counting ground time, and thus would require, at most, two frames (not accounting for periodic maintenance, etc.) for daily service.
 
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United_fan
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:21 pm

SA used to fly to FLL with a 744 in the early 2000's.
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
winginit
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:22 pm

Quoting divemaster08 (Reply 22):
As for route, I would actually try for a MIA-CPT-JNB route and then back again.
Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 17):
MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA. I think this option makes the most sense

Tags always sound so much better on paper than in practice, and it's highly unlikely that AA would roll the dice in operating a tag to markets that are far from a sure thing in tandem with what is already a hefty stage-length.

Two station start ups and two frames that could very likely otherwise be used for existing tested routes operating in and out of region whose economy is both significantly tourism driven and prone to fluctuation with no beyond feed - it ain't happening.
 
dfwjim1
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:38 pm

Love to see this route happen but I don't think it will. Almost every large European airline flies, or is going to fly, to/from MIA and several of
these airlines also fly to South Africa from Europe so passengers can fly to SA from MIA via Europe. Going south one can take SAA from Sao Paulo
and also LATAM (beginning October 2, 2016) to Johannesburg.
 
flylondon
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:45 pm

MIA is only 129 miles closer to CPT than JFK, I don't buy the argument that it's the logical choice for CPT's only U.S. flight.
 
dfwjim1
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:43 pm

Quoting flylondon (Reply 28):

Interesting...one would think that MIA would be much closer to CPT than JFK.
 
a380787
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:44 pm

Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 29):
Interesting...one would think that MIA would be much closer to CPT than JFK.

It's kinda the same way SFO is actually closer to SYD than LAX.
 
winginit
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:10 pm

Quoting flylondon (Reply 28):
MIA is only 129 miles closer to CPT than JFK
Quoting a380787 (Reply 30):
SFO is actually closer to SYD than LAX

those stats never cease to amaze me whenever they're brought up. I can look at a map every which way and it still doesn't make sense.
 
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GSPFlyer
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:32 pm

Quoting flylondon (Reply 28):
MIA is only 129 miles closer to CPT than JFK
Quoting a380787 (Reply 30):
SFO is actually closer to SYD than LAX.
Quoting winginit (Reply 31):
those stats never cease to amaze me whenever they're brought up. I can look at a map every which way and it still doesn't make sense.

More relevant facts-Maine is the closest U.S. state to Africa, while Reno, NV is farther West than Los Angeles. Most of these are because the northern points are much farther east than we realize. We think of the East and West coast to be mostly North-South, when in reality, there is a good bit of East-West travel as well.
 
dfwjim1
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:07 pm

I was in Anchorage a couple of weeks ago and it was amazing how many high altitude flights crossed the area throughout the day
that were traveling between DFW, IAH, LAX...etc and Asia. The great circle routes are truly the shortest distance between two places
even though on the map it does not look that way.
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:11 pm

Quoting winginit (Reply 31):
those stats never cease to amaze me whenever they're brought up. I can look at a map every which way and it still doesn't make sense.

That's the problem. You're looking at a map and not a globe.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Nonstop Flights From MIA To CPT On The Table

Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:28 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):
Whatever altitude problems Johannesburg creates Delta does fly nonstop to Atlanta with a 777-200LR which is around 8,800 miles. Miami being closer should be very viable.
Quoting octubre299 (Reply 23):
I just booked an LAX-CPT via Dubai and for me on the west coast I would have loved having a Miami option as my one stop choice instead of schlepping all the way to Dubai. I would think I am not the only one who thinks the options for getting to South Africa form most of the USA are terrible.

LAX-GIG-JNB would be the most direct, but I guess LAX lacks a GIG n/s, maybe LAX-GRU-JNB? I think that lacks a GRU-JNB.

Quoting United_fan (Reply 25):
SA used to fly to FLL with a 744 in the early 2000's

Both independently & as a fueling stop for ATL northbound.

Quoting GSPFlyer (Reply 32):
More relevant facts-Maine is the closest U.S. state to Africa, while Reno, NV is farther West than Los Angeles. Most of these are because the northern points are much farther east than we realize. We think of the East and West coast to be mostly North-South, when in reality, there is a good bit of East-West travel as well.


Eugene Oregon is the farthest West that the Coast Starlight on Amtrak runs, just to bolster your point.
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