OAK Is Regaining Its Former Glory

n471wn · Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:58 pm

SWA added 8 OAK flights on the 5th with 4 to Long Beach, 3 to Reno and one non-stop flight to St. Louis for a total of 124 per day for SWA I believe. And with the new international service to Gatwick on Norweigan things are looking up for our East Bay Airport!!

slcdeltarumd11 · Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:28 pm

OAK has been doing well, no reason it shouldn't. Great location to avoid SFO which has so many delays

DocLightning · Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:37 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 1):

OAK has been doing well, no reason it shouldn't. Great location to avoid SFO which has so many delays

And now with the new AirBART, getting there is even easier (albeit more expensive). The security lines are never as bad, parking (if you use it) is way cheaper, and the lack of parallel runways means that fog delays are a non-issue.

Living in Oakland myself, I fly out of OAK whenever there is a non-stop flight to my destination.

enilria · Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:57 pm

Isn't one of the Mexican LCCs moving to SFO because of issues with USA CBP@OAK?

modesto2 · Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:06 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
Isn't one of the Mexican LCCs moving to SFO because of issues with USA CBP@OAK?

There was some discussion on a previous thread about Volaris possibly moving to SFO.

legacyins · Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:13 pm

For 2015, here are the numbers for the Bay Area airports and their growth.

SFO: 50,067,094 passengers. Increase 6.2%

OAK: 11,205,063 passengers. Increase 8.40%

SJC: 10,092,287 passengers. Increase. 5.00%

Oakland had the biggest percentage of growth and will be interesting to see the numbers for 2016.

Rdh3e · Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:06 pm

Quoting legacyins (Reply 5):
Oakland had the biggest percentage of growth and will be interesting to see the numbers for 2016.

So the growth was (approx):

SFO +2,922,000
OAK +868,000
SJC +481,000

BoeingGuy · Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:08 pm

Quoting modesto2 (Reply 4):
There was some discussion on a previous thread about Volaris possibly moving to SFO.

It was clearly stated later in the threat that is incorrect. SFO would be additional service, not replacing OAK.

OAK and SJC are doing well lately. The only significant omissions I see from OAK are DL to ATL and AA to DFW.

I wonder if AS will re-instate OAK-SNA at some point.

BayAreaFlyer · Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:50 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 7):

I wonder if AS will re-instate OAK-SNA at some point.

I do see AS expansion of adding OAK-SNA, OAK-SAN & OAK-BUR top major markets, once the AS-VX deal is closed next year.

BayAreaFlyer · Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:57 pm

WN will acquire two additional gates at OAK, which will be gates 4 & 6 in T-1.

PITrules · Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:59 pm

I think OAK missed a huge opportunity in the 1970's by not acquiring the rest of Bay Farm Island. Instead they now have substantially more immediate residential neighbors to deal because of all the housing that was built instead. If they had that land they could have realigned and extended the North Field runways to be parallel to the south runway. The result could have been an airfield resembling LAX and a proper terminal complex in the middle. With independent parallel runways that SFO lacks, perhaps OAK today could have been the primary airport for the Bay Area.

psa1011 · Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:06 pm

Quoting BayAreaFlyer (Reply 8):

Yes - once AS & DL are no longer so close, OAK will need an AS link to SoCal.

Thenoflyzone · Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:19 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 10):

Not too late. The residential areas aren't really in the way. All the airport has to do is buy out both golf complexes at either end of runway 10L & R, realign the runways and build the terminal.

SFO has no more room to grow. Airlines will look to OAK for growth in the future. Now is the time to plan ahead.

Airnerd · Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:30 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 10):
I think OAK missed a huge opportunity in the 1970's by not acquiring the rest of Bay Farm Island. Instead they now have substantially more immediate residential neighbors to deal because of all the housing that was built instead. If they had that land they could have realigned and extended the North Field runways to be parallel to the south runway. The result could have been an airfield resembling LAX and a proper terminal complex in the middle. With independent parallel runways that SFO lacks, perhaps OAK today could have been the primary airport for the Bay Area.

Coulda woulda shoulda?

It's true! However, OAK has lots of room to grow even as it stands. There are single-runway airports that handle twice the passengers of OAK, and if they get there, I think they probably could reconfigure the north field with a parallel, or near parallel runway to focus mostly on landings and accommodate significantly more passengers. It's worth noting that the most recent master plan envisioned an eventual parallel runway a the south field - quite close to the existing one. In any case, there is a great deal of space around the existing terminals between the north and south fields for terminal/cartgo/taxiway development.

http://www.oaklandairport.com/masterplan_oak/support_documents.shtml

n471wn · Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:42 pm

Quoting BayAreaFlyer (Reply 9):

Most interesting that WN is going to take gates 4 and 6 in T-1 and thanks for this information as I did not know that! Of course I do hope OAK is smart enough to renumber the gates in T-1. They make no sense as there is NO Gate 2 but there is a Gate 8 and a Gate 8A!!! And T-1 has filthy restrooms all the time and is the only airport worse that Cleveland Hopkins as to cleanliness.

BayAreaFlyer · Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:48 pm

There's several proposals how this could be realigned in OAK, another alternative opportunity to build second runway in the South Field next to Runway 30/12 is located, but it will be a costly project which will require bay landfill.

BayAreaFlyer · Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:52 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 14):
Most interesting that WN is going to take gates 4 and 6 in T-1 and thanks for this information as I did not know that!

WN boarding columns were installed a few weeks ago.

intotheair · Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:58 pm

Always great to see more growth at OAK. The new BART connector is really convenient, and I'm sure it must have a positive effect on passenger numbers. Though I also wish OAK could develop into more than just the LAS/So Cal/Hawaii shuttle that it is. I was pretty disappointed to see UA leave a few years ago. I'd love to see more AS expansion, though who knows if that would ever happen with their operation at SJC and soon-to-be-hub at SFO.

OzarkD9S · Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:25 pm

Quoting n471wn (Thread starter):
one non-stop flight to St. Louis

I have been waiting for this since the 90's. High time.

S75752 · Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:56 am

I wonder if/when OAK will get some Asia service of some sort. I was actually betting that HU was going to pick OAK for PEK, since NH was already in SJC, but I was wrong there.

seatback · Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:54 am

[quote=BoeingGuy,reply=7]The only significant omissions I see from OAK are DL to ATL and AA to DFW.

If you're traveling on business and have to get to the Bay area, your safest bet is OAK. That said, I don't get why these two can't make these routes work. I'd also question IAH and ORD.

LAX772LR · Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:03 am

Quoting seatback (Reply 20):
That said, I don't get why these two can't make these routes work.

Because, quite obviously, the primary demand to/from the Bay for transcons is to SFO.

That's not to say that there isn't demand from OAK, but such demand is insufficient to overcome the opportunity cost of using the ship to SFO or elsewhere. If it weren't, then the service would exist. No way around that.

PA110 · Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:07 am

Being an Oakland resident, I always welcome the opportunity to fly out of OAK instead of making the trek across the bay to SFO. I hope one day UA will eventually return to OAK, but B6, AS and WN offer plenty of options.

YellowRibbon · Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:14 am

Quoting n471wn (Thread starter):
And with the new international service to Gatwick on Norweigan things are looking up for our East Bay Airport!!

Great news indeed, however does the OAK-LGW flight result in the smaller frequency of the OAK-ARN? Does anyone recall the frequency for OAK-ARN before LGW was launched?

dfwjim1 · Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:17 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 21):

And don't forget that AA did serve DFW from OAK until the early 2000s before pulling out. I believe that they had 3 flights a day
and maybe even a red eye. Of course SW serves DAL from OAK.

dfwjim1 · Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:19 am

As a side note FLL is smaller than OAK in land area but serves more passengers than SJC and OAK combined.

Travelmanager · Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:26 am

I flew into OAK this morning and was rather impressed with the hub of activity. It is a very easy airport to navigate. Now, if only they had an airport lounge, I might consider it for flights departing the Bay Area.

BayAreaFlyer · Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:26 am

Quoting seatback (Reply 20):
If you're traveling on business and have to get to the Bay area, your safest bet is OAK. That said, I don't get why these two can't make these routes work. I'd also question IAH and ORD.

DL OAK-ATL route should work this time. NK serves OAK-IAH and OAK-ORD with strong loads and demand. As East Bay residents are now preferring to fly to OAK due to easy access to the new BART to OAK connector. PAX numbers are increasing including BART ridership.

SANFan · Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:26 am

I also think AS will be serving OAK-SAN, and within a year. I would, in fact, be quite surprised if it didn't happen!

The problem I see with OAK-SNA is slots at John Wayne; I believe AS has none available and I can't see what current flights they would drop to make room for Oakland service.

bb

MaxxFlyer · Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:30 am

Is SATA returning to OAK this summer?

BayAreaFlyer · Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:39 am

Quoting Travelmanager (Reply 26):
Now, if only they had an airport lounge, I might consider it for flights departing the Bay Area.

There's a new Escape Lounge opening in Terminal 1 this month, here's more info:
http://www.oaklandairport.com/press_releases_detail.aspx?ID=726&t=p

Quoting MaxxFlyer (Reply 29):
Is SATA returning to OAK this summer?

Yes, SATA starting a new summer route OAK-LIS with a direct bound to TER starting this month.

[Edited 2016-06-07 19:40:26]

MIflyer12 · Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:03 am

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 6):
Quoting legacyins (Reply 5):
Oakland had the biggest percentage of growth and will be interesting to see the numbers for 2016.

So the growth was (approx):

SFO +2,922,000
OAK +868,000
SJC +481,000

I see what you did there, showing competence in 4th grade math to show the real growth in passenger numbers was overwhelmingly at SFO!

bluefltspecial · Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:17 am

Quoting BayAreaFlyer (Reply 27):

DL OAK-ATL route should work this time. NK serves OAK-IAH and OAK-ORD with strong loads and demand. As East Bay residents are now preferring to fly to OAK due to easy access to the new BART to OAK connector. PAX numbers are increasing including BART ridership.

Not to put water on the fire but...

Per enilria in the most recent OAG Change update on 6/10:

*DL ATL-OAK SEP 1.0>0 OCT 0.9>0

No clue if it's permanent though.

Quoting YellowRibbon (Reply 23):
Great news indeed, however does the OAK-LGW flight result in the smaller frequency of the OAK-ARN? Does anyone recall the frequency for OAK-ARN before LGW was launched?

If there was any loss in frequency, I think you'll see it resumed or you'll see additional flights added to current and new destinations. DY has had a great response there and DY is doubling in size next year.

Whispers down the runway lately have been that JetBlue is going to wallop the West Coast with the VX/AS merger in full swing and try to take some of those VX passengers that aren't feeling the AS brand. While I'm sure most of it will be focused in SFO, it wouldn't surprise me to see some additions to OAK from other points in the west by B6. The question is, are their gates there for other airlines to expand? I've only flown through there once.

SurfandSnow · Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:19 am

Quoting n471wn (Thread starter):
SWA added 8 OAK flights on the 5th with 4 to Long Beach, 3 to Reno and one non-stop flight to St. Louis for a total of 124 per day for SWA I believe.

It's great to see WN showing so much luv to many of its secondary airports/markets again (i.e. BUR, CMH, IND, MCI, MSY, OAK, OMA, PIT, PVD, SAN, SAT, SJC, SMF, SNA, STL). If WN ever does start flying to Alaska and/or Hawaii OAK could very well be the springboard for such service(s). I'd say any of the bigger heartland markets could be fair game from OAK these days - DTW, IND, MKE (transfer from SFO), MSP, OKC, OMA, PIT, RDU, SAT - and I wonder if places further afield like EWR, FLL, MCO and PHL might be possibilities too. When will WN go international from OAK? Is that what the Terminal 1 gates are for? You'd think WN would already be flying the likes of OAK-PVR/SJD by now...

Quoting n471wn (Thread starter):
And with the new international service to Gatwick on Norweigan things are looking up for our East Bay Airport!!

Kudos to the folks running OAK for getting both Norwegian and ULCC NK to select the airport as their respective gateways to the entire San Francisco Bay Area.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 7):
The only significant omissions I see from OAK are DL to ATL and AA to DFW.

It's pretty shocking that DL has done so well on the LAX-OAK route but can't even manage a 1x daily ATL-OAK service.

DFW and even ORD seem like they could be good possibilities for AA. It's not like you can easily reach places like CLE, MSY, RDU or YYZ via PHX, let alone smaller markets...

Quoting BayAreaFlyer (Reply 8):
I do see AS expansion of adding OAK-SNA, OAK-SAN & OAK-BUR top major markets, once the AS-VX deal is closed next year.

AS could also try niche routes like OAK-PSP, OAK-SBA or OAK-TUS...

chrisair · Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:39 am

Quoting BayAreaFlyer (Reply 9):
WN will acquire two additional gates at OAK, which will be gates 4 & 6 in T-1.

Can't wait to go from 4 to 31 on a tight connection! (It's some good exercise though!)

Quoting n471wn (Reply 14):
And T-1 has filthy restrooms all the time and is the only airport worse that Cleveland Hopkins as to cleanliness.

Weird. I've found the T1 restrooms dated and old, but certainly not filthy. I was there last week. And CLE is actually a pretty nice airport. So are certain areas of downtown, but that's a different story.

Quoting seatback (Reply 20):
If you're traveling on business and have to get to the Bay area, your safest bet is OAK.

Not sure I totally agree. Depending on where you're going, SFO and to a lesser extent SJC are easier to cover the Peninsula from. SFO is the easiest to get into and out of The City from. Traffic coming in from 101 or 280 is generally easier than the Bay Bridge/Maze/Nimitz mess going up from Oakland.

Rental cars are by far more convenient and easier to get to at SFO (the OAK busses suck!) and SJC. You can get both BART and Caltrain fairly easily, (Caltrain is a little tricky if you don't know the shortcuts from SFO), plus there are a huge assortment of hotels and restaurants near SFO and SJC. OAK is kind of on its own out there.

BayAreaFlyer · Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:54 am

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 33):
When will WN go international from OAK? Is that what the Terminal 1 gates are for? You'd think WN would already be flying the likes of OAK-PVR/SJD by now...

Not too sure on this one, Y4 recently applied to the DOT to fly both routes.

WN is also eyeing the Canada market, I could see them adding OAK-YVR and OAK-YYZ. Once the 737 MAX orders arrive.

[Edited 2016-06-08 01:03:24]

BayAreaFlyer · Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:05 am

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 33):
AS could also try niche routes like OAK-PSP, OAK-SBA

That's something AS may have placed into the West Coast basket, as well as SJC-SBA and SJC-PSP. The route could go 2x daily using a ERJ 175 or the CRJ700. G4 did OAK-PSP for a few months and disappeared on the radar without explanation.

[Edited 2016-06-08 01:11:56]

wnflyguy · Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:07 am

My prediction for WN OAK in the not to distant future once the MAX arrives I see nonstops to PVR,SJD,FLL and MCO in late 2017.
Summer 2018 I expect you will finally see HNL,OGG,KOA and ANC start once WN new domestic RES system in place.

Long shot once the MAX arrives possibly Saturday only OAK-CUN service.

Flyguy

olddominion727 · Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:26 pm

I grew up in the bay area, and to think one day SJC would have ns service to Asia on 3 carriers, Europe on 2 carriers, Canada and Mexico. I have watched OAK come and go and come and go again... This is the first time ever that all 3 bay area airports have nonstop service to London. SFO-LHR, SJC-LHR, OAK-LGW. I know London is constantly growing and evolving but is it London proper that's getting the most bang for the bay area buck or is it the surrounding cities? The Bay Area right now is setting a precedence in the service it offers. Think of the cities/areas around the country with co-terminals: LAX is the only airport of the 5 with transoceanic service, JFK/EWR not LGA, ORD not MDW, IAD/BWI not DCA, DFW not DAL, MIA/FLL have TATL service only, nothing to Asia. I think a benchmark of quality offerings is really here to stay for the bay area. It's good to see international travel happening again and booming at that. How does the new service out of the Bay Area affect the service out of LAX? SFO-DEL, SFO-SIN, SFO-HND, SFO-TLV, SJC-LHR, SJC-FRA, SJC-PEK, SJC-PVG, SJC-NRT, OAK-LGW, SFO-SYD, SFO-AKL (these two are not new) SFO-CTU, SFO-XMN, SFO-IST, SFO-DXB, SFO-DOH, SFO-CPH... this has to impact LAX heavily for the draw of pax, does it not?

dfwjim1 · Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:48 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 38):

FLL/MIA does not have nonstop service to Asia and the Bay Area does not have nonstop service to South America.

BoeingGuy · Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:54 pm

Quoting BayAreaFlyer (Reply 36):
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 33):
AS could also try niche routes like OAK-PSP, OAK-SBA

That's something AS may have placed into the West Coast basket, as well as SJC-SBA and SJC-PSP.

AS has done SJC-PSP at least twice in the past. Most recently it was a QX CRJ. They've discontinued it each time.

slider · Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:55 pm

Quoting legacyins (Reply 5):
For 2015, here are the numbers for the Bay Area airports and their growth.

SFO: 50,067,094 passengers. Increase 6.2%

OAK: 11,205,063 passengers. Increase 8.40%

SJC: 10,092,287 passengers. Increase. 5.00%

Just a sidenote here--together, that's 70MM pax combined at the metro Bay Area airports.

Jointly, that is almost on par with ORD and LAX from a total marco pax volume standpoint. Wow.

olddominion727 · Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:07 pm

I agree! said MIA/FLL has TATL flights no Asia.. and yes SFO does have service to South America, TACA flies there and Copa flies to Central America. And until recently LAN flew SFO-LIM. So what's your point? UA has been look at serving SFO-South America with the 788/789. They've speculated BOG or SAO. Bogota would be a great connection for Star Alliance partner Avianca to codeshare on, and Sao Paulo speaks for itself

olddominion727 · Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:09 pm

technically China Airlines flies cargo to Miami, so technically MIA does have Asia service. Just not passenger service.

Rdh3e · Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:22 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 31):
I see what you did there, showing competence in 4th grade math to show the real growth in passenger numbers was overwhelmingly at SFO!

Not sure if you were trying to insult me or what, but I was simply providing another data point that is worth looking at.

Quoting slider (Reply 41):
Jointly, that is almost on par with ORD and LAX from a total marco pax volume standpoint. Wow.

If you're going to lump OAK/SFO/SJC together then you have to add MDW/ORD and BUR/LAX/SNA/LGB together.

Houston....................52,607,626
Washington D.C.........66,213,393
Bay Area...................68,686,676
Dallas........................77,244,168
Los Angeles...............92,446,529
Chicago.....................93,698,100
New York City...........117,746,709

This is from T100 so it won't match exactly.

[Edited 2016-06-08 09:33:25]

UALWN · Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:45 pm

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 44):
Houston....................52,607,626
Washington D.C.........66,213,393
Bay Area...................68,686,676
Dallas........................77,244,168
Los Angeles...............92,446,529
Chicago.....................93,698,100
New York City...........117,746,709

I guess you forgot Atlanta, since ATL is at 101 million.

Rdh3e · Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:56 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 45):
I guess you forgot Atlanta, since ATL is at 101 million.

I only used cities with co-terminal airports because that is what he was trying to compare.

dfwjim1 · Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:50 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 42):

You pointed out that FLL/MIA does not have service to Asia so I pointed that the Bay Area does not have service to
South America - equal exchange. Having service to Central America is not the same as having flights to South America, especially
the larger cities in deep South America.

Of course service to South America from SFO has been tried by both Varig and United and each time they have failed.
I just can't see the Bay Area supporting non-stop flights to South America when there are many gateway cities along the way
ie IAH, DFW, MIA, LAX...etc. Also I believe the same thing goes for FLL/MIA when it comes to nonstop flights to Asia.

SFOA380 · Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:28 pm

Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 47):
Varig and United and each time they have failed.

Varig and VASP both tried and failed. Both were tags from LAX. United has never attempted but LAN tried and failed. I do believe when the economy in Brazil improves and stabilizes we could see UA attempt SFO-GRU as the business community was screaming for this service prior to the Brazilian implosion. It worked for SFO-TLV. United was skeptical but responded and now it's going daily inside of six months.

BoeingGuy · Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:23 pm

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 48):
Varig and VASP both tried and failed. Both were tags from LAX. United has never attempted but LAN tried and failed.

Ahhh, I didn't know that Varig or VASP ever served SFO. The LA SFO-LIM route was pretty short-lived though.

Longer back, Braniff did an SFO-LAX tag with a DC-8-62 to the LAX-South America routes. It was Braniff's only SFO flight pre-deregulation and lasted many years.

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