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N62NA
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JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:30 pm

Just saw DL #2 LHR-JFK land here at EWR and the LOT 787 WAW-JFK just landed as well. Seems that the earlier rains caused quite a bit of havoc at JFK.
 
gq
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:44 pm

Weather wasn't the cause. VIP movement, JFK was in a ground stop because the POTUS is in NYC today
 
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N62NA
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:11 pm

Quoting gq (Reply 1):
Weather wasn't the cause. VIP movement, JFK was in a ground stop because the POTUS is in NYC today

Ah - well if I was on one of those diverted flights, I would be quite, uh, upset.

I see DL flight 2 has now been renumbered as flight 211 and is sitting near the FedEX ramp.
 
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fbgdavidson
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:37 pm

Surprised they'd divert for a ground stop, which I assume is probably 30mins or similar....where do they park the VC-25s at JFK? Could be temped to try and get a view of it.
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
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hummingbird
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:44 pm

I was on DL1644 from FLL-JFK. We pushed from the gate , then departed an hour later. Enroute to JFK, the Captain mentioned low visibility, strong winds and the arrival of Air Force One have caused major delays for all carriers. We had to circle for 15 minutes before landing .
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
deltal1011man
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:47 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 2):

Ah - well if I was on one of those diverted flights, I would be quite, uh, upset.

when POTUS or VPOTUS shows up its a huge pain in the ass for anyone who gets stuck in it.

Biden came to Atlanta one day and they shut the connector downtown down........... at 1815. Atlanta doesn't have the best traffic as it is.


oh and they drove right past Dobbins but VP had to go to ATL. (both Biden and Obama are really good at doing this, Bush/Clinton were nice enough to go to Dobbins if on the north side of town.)  
 
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GE9X
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:48 pm

Why not take Marine One from McGuire AFB or at least a relief airport like SWF? I understand his time is limited and there's a huge logistics and security operation around every movement but a ground stop at JFK sounds disproportionally disruptive. I bet airlines are not too happy for delays and diversions either, especially foreign ones.
 
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reffado
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:50 pm

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 4):

Noticed similar on a friend's flight. He's on B6 1801 JFK-FLL and had the same experience, they pushed back and departed an hour later. Controllers at JFK must not be happy.
 
spartanmjf
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:06 pm

Quoting GE9X (Reply 6):
Why not take Marine One from McGuire AFB or at least a relief airport like SWF?

Seriously? Because the politicians mentioned have a penchant to show off.......taxpayers be damned.
"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
 
Sooner787
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:11 pm

When is AF1 supposed to leave JFK?

I have a client on Korean 85 and they're around 3 hours out of JFK.

If they get diverted, I'll get an earful tomorrow morning
  
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:19 pm

Quoting gq (Reply 1):
Weather wasn't the cause. VIP movement, JFK was in a ground stop because the POTUS is in NYC today

The diversions/delays are due to a strong squall and 3 hours of heavy rain and strong NW winds that went through 12p-3pm.

POTUS compounded the situation...but didn't cause it.

JFK has been running 57 minute ATC delays since early this morning for weather/wind

"Due to WX / WIND, there is a Traffic Management Program in effect for traffic arriving John F Kennedy International Airport, New York, NY (JFK). This is causing some arriving flights to be delayed an average of 2 hours and 48 minutes. To see if you may be affected, select your departure airport and check "Delays by Destination"."


"Due to WIND, departure traffic destined to Newark International Airport, Newark, NJ (EWR) is currently experiencing delays averaging 1 hour and 31 minutes.
Due to WEATHER / WIND, departure traffic destined to La Guardia Airport, New York, NY (LGA) is currently experiencing delays averaging 1 hour and 13 minutes. "

http://www.fly.faa.gov/flyfaa/usmap.jsp



For a while there, weather was so bad, they likely had to halt approaches.


Again, weather caused this...POTUS exacerbated it
 
BobbyPSP
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:28 pm

Airport Ops briefs the airlines as to an approximate window. Once set the window is about 30 minutes.

So it's no secret and with the absence of weather long haul ops could be slightly adjusted
 
tmu101
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:04 am

On a similar note did the Concorde ever divert to EWR for any reason (weather, POTUS visit, etc)? Any pictures if so?
 
bigmo747
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:30 am

Back in 1993-1994, i used to work at EWR. I have seen with my own two eyes that both a BA as well as an AF Concorde diverted to EWR on the same day minutes apart. It was quite a show. PA Police had to get everybody to get back to work on the ramp after the take off show was over   Sweet memories  

Best Regards
 
tmu101
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:00 am

Quoting bigmo747 (Reply 13):
Back in 1993-1994, i used to work at EWR. I have seen with my own two eyes that both a BA as well as an AF Concorde diverted to EWR on the same day minutes apart. It was quite a show. PA Police had to get everybody to get back to work on the ramp after the take off show was over  Sweet memories  

Gosh that had to have been some sight! I'm jealous!  
 
b747400erf
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:54 am

Quoting spartanmjf (Reply 8):
Because the politicians mentioned have a penchant to show off

He's uppity, right?

Quoting spartanmjf (Reply 8):
taxpayers be damned.

You don't want to compare spending habits of recent administrations...
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:17 am

I am surprised nobody mentioned this but the VIP arrived into JFK much later than scheduled. Thus there were a number of flights where dispatchers had not planned a bunch of extra fuel as the VIP was expected to be over well before he actually arrived.
 
Lentini2001
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:20 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 9):
When is AF1 supposed to leave JFK?

I have a client on Korean 85 and they're around 3 hours out of JFK.

If they get diverted, I'll get an earful tomorrow morning

Hardly your fault, get your 'client' to take it up with the white house...
 
gq
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:28 am

Quoting BobbyPSP (Reply 11):
Again, weather caused this...POTUS exacerbated it

As just mentioned the POTUS arrived later than originally scheduled along with the fact that JFK couldn't go to the more favorable arrival configuration as planned because of airspace restrictions and LGA staying on the LOC 31 approach longer than expected. The revised GDP in affect for JFK in the afternoon was based on the POTUS being at JFK before 3:30. He arrived almost a hour late. He only will land (and depart) a certain runway and the airport is sterilized (no movements) well before he arrives, during his ground movements and until he's well on his way to his NYC location. DAL 2 and LOT 26 specifically diverted due to this.
 
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glideslope
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:36 am

The arrival of the POTUS is not always as dramatic. Let's have some reality in this thread, eh? Any blurb at JFK is going to cause a mess. JFK is the mess, not the arrival of Tail Number 28000.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
slinky09
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:49 am

I always find it amusing that people think the POTUS is given an option about where to land and sits and thinks, yup JFK will work for me. I should think these decisions are taken by others, and they're part of the vast machinery of security who are probably unconstrained when it comes to their decision making.

That said, once the POTUS came to the UK and LHR had a ground stop that caused mayhem, so much critical noise was made about it that the next time he came Stanstead was used instead then he was transferred by helicopter into London. Seems a better approach to me.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:43 pm

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 20):
I always find it amusing that people think the POTUS is given an option about where to land and sits and thinks, yup JFK will work for me. I should think these decisions are taken by others, and they're part of the vast machinery of security who are probably unconstrained when it comes to their decision making.

I have to mention that there is more than just a 747 in the POTUS fleet...in fact, there are tons of smaller aircraft that can easily accommodate his entourage...and, as POTUS, he does have some say on which aircraft he can travel on. But he and the powers that be see fit to waste the 747 on a short hop from ADW to JFK. I was caught in that snarl back in 2011 coming back from DUS on AB...not fun to be sitting on the tarmac for an hour because he had to attend a dinner with Rev Al.
 
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STT757
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:23 pm

Quoting N62NA (Thread starter):
Just saw DL #2 LHR-JFK land here at EWR and the LOT 787 WAW-JFK just landed as well. Seems that the earlier rains caused quite a bit of havoc at JFK.

I was driving past on the Turnpike heading home from work when the LOT 787 landed. There was some wicked weather around that time although EWR was not that bad.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
rfields5421
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:30 pm

Quoting GE9X (Reply 6):
Why not take Marine One from McGuire AFB or at least a relief airport like SWF?

Marine ONE is a high risk, high value target when over open territory that cannot be secured or patrolled. The Secret Service is limiting travel by helicopter to the minimum required. They vastly prefer AF1 into a 'secure' airport.
 
DiscoverCSG
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:40 pm

Bear in mind that sometimes POTUS's travels are not a simple out-and-back. That might mean they *need* the 747 for part of the journey.

Also, his entourage (when you include the press, et al) actually does use most of the 747 (which has fewer seats than a standard commercial configuration).

Finally, consider than unlike most of us, POTUS isn't just using air transport to get from Point A to Point B. He's using Air Force One as a mobile command post for the Executive Branch of the US Government, which includes the authority (and potential necessity) to oversee military operations at any time. And in the event of some conflict or security crisis (usually not forseeable with any degree of accuracy), POTUS may need to go far away very fast, or else stay airborne for many hours; the 757's simply can't compete with the 747's for flexibility in that sort of situation.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 23):
Marine ONE is a high risk, high value target when over open territory that cannot be secured or patrolled. The Secret Service is limiting travel by helicopter to the minimum required. They vastly prefer AF1 into a 'secure' airport.
Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 21):
I have to mention that there is more than just a 747 in the POTUS fleet...in fact, there are tons of smaller aircraft that can easily accommodate his entourage...and, as POTUS, he does have some say on which aircraft he can travel on. But he and the powers that be see fit to waste the 747 on a short hop from ADW to JFK.
 
irelayer
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:56 pm

Quoting spartanmjf (Reply 8):

Seriously? Because the politicians mentioned have a penchant to show off.......taxpayers be damned.

This is a strictly apolitical comment, so please don't take this as us vs. them. You simply do not have anywhere near even a fraction of the information required to determine that they are doing it just to "show off" and screw the taxpayers because they can. If you knew half of what goes in to planning VIP military movements, you would know better than to make such an off the cuff and speculative remark.

But thanks for your very well thought out opinion nonetheless.

-IR
 
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N62NA
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RE: JFK Diversions To EWR Today

Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:12 pm

Quoting gq (Reply 18):
As just mentioned the POTUS arrived later than originally scheduled along with the fact that JFK couldn't go to the more favorable arrival configuration as planned because of airspace restrictions and LGA staying on the LOC 31 approach longer than expected. The revised GDP in affect for JFK in the afternoon was based on the POTUS being at JFK before 3:30. He arrived almost a hour late. He only will land (and depart) a certain runway and the airport is sterilized (no movements) well before he arrives, during his ground movements and until he's well on his way to his NYC location. DAL 2 and LOT 26 specifically diverted due to this.

Thanks for the info.

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