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More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:59 am
by ordell
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...-mh370-debris-on-madagascar-beach/

An American adventurer hunting for debris from MH370 has found a piece of wreckage on a beach in Madagascar believed to be a window frame or wing panel from the missing plane.

Blaine Gibson, a Seattle lawyer who previously found possible debris in Mozambique, discovered the piece on Riake beach, on the island of Nosy Boraha.

NEW: This Seattle man on a mission to find #MH370 shared these photos of new debris he found on a Madagascar beach. pic.twitter.com/az6o4rdRDQ
— Heather Graf (@HeatherGrafK5) 9 June 2016

Other pieces have been previously found in the region, including debris found in Reunion island and Mauritius.

Don Thompson, a British engineer involved in an informal group investigating MH370, said on twitter that the item could be a “piece of leading or trailing edge (cover) panel” from the plane’s wing or horizontal stabiliser.

Mr Gibson said he thought the piece resembled a window frame and has sent images to authorities searching for the plane.

A separate piece of possible debris from the missing Boeing 777 has been found on Kangaroo Island, an island off the southern coast of Australia.

RE: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:35 am
by foxecho
at first glance the item on the left looks like a seatback with an IFE screen

Andrew

RE: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:07 am
by 9MMPQ
That would be from the flight info screen that is located on the bulkhead in the front of each cabin section.

I couldn't quite find the best pictures of it on here but you'll spot it here:

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Malay...d=63a6c6b7e4175344fa0028ffc1c167b8

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Malay...d=63a6c6b7e4175344fa0028ffc1c167b8

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Malay...d=63a6c6b7e4175344fa0028ffc1c167b8

Still doesn't help locating MH370  

RE: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:29 am
by zkncj
Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 2):
That would be from the flight info screen that is located on the bulkhead in the front of each cabin section.

It would looks like its from an Y Seat IFE Screen, maybe what goes under the fabric? or its from another crash?

RE: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:09 pm
by airboeingbus
Yes, definitely from seat back!


RE: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:52 am
by smokeybandit
Wish I could afford that kind of hobby

RE: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:00 am
by TheRedBaron
I did not know Warren Platts was such an old geezer !!! LOL   

I all seriousness I am amazed how such a big aircraft has shed ably very small pieces and VERY FAR AWAY, we might never find the wreckage in such a big ocean ..Id go to the Kergelens, surely there must be some debris there...

TRB

RE: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:35 am
by 777Jet
Quoting zkncj (Reply 3):
It would looks like its from an Y Seat IFE Screen, maybe what goes under the fabric?

The honeycomb piece with letters (stenciling) looks like it *could* be from a 777 but I doubt the other piece is from part of the Y seat where the IFE screen fits in; the size of the edges and proportions don't match up no mater which way you look at it.

RE: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:07 pm
by ikramerica
It's dented and warped. But the shape is right, as is the Velcro border around the frame to hold seat fabric on, the proportion to the mans hand and body, etc. It's clearly an IFE frame. I don't understand why you claim it's not.

RE: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:13 pm
by Deanger
I don't know if this link will post, but it seems officials are not facing the (nearly inevitable) possibility that the range calculations were off. Given how tight a window they were actually narrowing that part of the equation to (by necessity), this isn't surprising.

Anyone who has a real concept of the size of an ocean knows it is entirely possible this aircraft won't be found until one day, years from now, it will be found by accident. I hope that isn't true, but math is not on the searchers' side.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/wo...ndation&src=rechp&WT.nav=RecEngine

RE: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:14 pm
by hz747300
Quoting Deanger (Reply 9):
Anyone who has a real concept of the size of an ocean knows it is entirely possible this aircraft won't be found until one day, years from now, it will be found by accident. I hope that isn't true, but math is not on the searchers' side.

To map the ocean now will require a generous benefactor, with no chance of reclaiming any finds--including pirate ships which sank in violent storms taking their loot to bottom with them. I doubt anyone will step up and do this, even Carlos Slim.

RE: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:36 pm
by N14AZ
@ Deanger, reply no. 9: in this article there is mentioning of a part being found in Australia. Maybe I missed this or is this new? I thought that so far all parts have been found near Africa?

Re: RE: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:24 am
by 777Jet
ikramerica wrote:
It's dented and warped. But the shape is right, as is the Velcro border around the frame to hold seat fabric on, the proportion to the mans hand and body, etc. It's clearly an IFE frame. I don't understand why you claim it's not.


I said I "doubt" it. I never 'claimed' it was not an IFE frame.

Do you understand the word "doubt"?

You, on the other hand, just based on that sole picture, have claimed ""It's clearly an IFE frame.""

Have you informed the investigators? :lol:

Re: RE: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:35 am
by LandSweetLand
N14AZ wrote:
@ Deanger, reply no. 9: in this article there is mentioning of a part being found in Australia. Maybe I missed this or is this new? I thought that so far all parts have been found near Africa?


http://www.smh.com.au/world/plane-debri ... pftdf.html

Re: RE: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:16 am
by 777Jet
ikramerica wrote:
It's dented and warped. But the shape is right, as is the Velcro border around the frame to hold seat fabric on, the proportion to the mans hand and body, etc. It's clearly an IFE frame. I don't understand why you claim it's not.


'Boeing says debris found on Kangaroo Island not from MH370'

https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalkin ... not-mh370/

""While some MH370 debris is widely thought to have washed ashore in Australia, the objects found on Kangaroo Island didn't come from a Boeing 777

A promising find of possible debris from MH370 on Kangaroo Island earlier this month didn’t come from the missing Malaysia Airlines 777 according to its maker Boeing.

That finding is all that is news in this week’s search update from the JACC and ATSB.

On 9 June 2016, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) was advised of possible aircraft debris located on Kangaroo Island, South Australia. The ATSB recovered the part, and examined it, in conjunction with Malaysian authorities and the aircraft manufacturer, Boeing. Information received from the manufacturer indicates that the item is not consistent with the manufacturing specifications of a Boeing commercial aircraft. As such, the ATSB has assessed that the item is not related to the safety investigation or the search for MH370.""

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:26 am
by 777Jet
'Section of plane wing found off East Africa could be from MH370'

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-up ... 0c8d7f5941

""PART of an aircraft wing found on an island off Tanzania in East Africa could be the largest piece of MH370 recovered to date — if it is confirmed as coming from the missing Boeing 777.

Federal Transport Minister Darren Chester issued a statement about the debris found by locals on Pemba Island, more than 6000 kilometres from the current search zone.

Pictures posted by Jamii Forums on Twitter show the part is indeed larger than anything else found to date that has been determined to “almost certainly” come from MH370.

Mr Chester said the Australian Transport Safety Bureau was seeking further information on the debris to ascertain whether it was part of the Malaysia Airlines’ aircraft.

If it is confirmed as being from MH370, it will be the furtherest north debris has been found to date.

Other items have been discovered on Reunion Island, Mauritius, Mozambique and South Africa. Debris found in Madagascar this month is still awaiting retrieval by Malaysia for examination.

Drift modelling undertaken by University of Western Australia oceanographer Charitha Pattiaratchi shows it is possible debris from MH370 could have been carried as far as Pemba Island.

Professor Pattiaratchi said it was more likely that debris would come up on an island than a beach “because an island collects things”.

He said it was completely plausible that a section of wing from MH370 had now washed up on Pemba Island, from the southern Indian Ocean.

“It’s taken that time to get there,” said Prof Pattiaratchi.

“If people had been looking 12 months ago they wouldn’t have found anything.”

The section could prove the most valuable debris to date in terms of shedding more light on MH370’s final moments.

Some experts have suggested the Boeing 777 would have been manually glided into the ocean, to minimise damage to the aircraft while the ATSB has worked on the theory it ditched into the sea after exhausting fuel supplies.

The plane disappeared on March 8, 2014 after leaving Kuala Lumpur for Beijing.

There were 239 people on board including six Australians.

An underwater search in the southern Indian Ocean is due to be completed in August and it’s likely the operation will not be expanded further without new evidence.

Mr Chester said officials from Malaysia, Australia and China met this week to discuss “a range of matters related to the search”.

“Discussions were productive and will allow each country to brief their respective Minister ahead of a Ministerial Tripartite Meeting proposed for late July,” he said.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:36 am
by 777Jet
What do you think about this Mr Warren Platts:

'Independent analysis says Tanzania object is from MH370'

https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalkin ... ect-mh370/

"A compelling case for the large object found in Tanzania being part of the right wing of missing flight MH370 has been published by IG members Mike Exner and Don Thompson.

They conclude that it is the inboard one third of the large right wing flap adjacent to the flaperon recovered from La Réunion Island last July.

The paper is likely to increase the focus on possible reasons why most of the debris recovered from the Malaysia Airlines 777-200ER has been identified as coming from the right side of the jet..."

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:33 am
by Buyantukhaa
Image
That looks big indeed, should be easy to check if it is part of the 777.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:28 am
by OMP777X
It is being reported now that the latest piece of MH370 wreckage to have been recovered shows signs of fire damage and appears to have been from beneath the cabin, possibly from the avionics bay. This find could be big!

http://www.inquisitr.com/3500413/malays ... ne-gibson/

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-up ... d27e6cd252

Best,

OMP777X

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:26 am
by 777Jet
A MH370 thread that dies 2 months ago gets bumped the day after the current MH370 thread gets locked. LOL.


"""""It is being reported now that the latest piece of MH370 wreckage to have been recovered shows signs of fire damage and appears to have been from beneath the cabin, possibly from the avionics bay. This find could be big!"""""


Must have been some fire given the flight duration and route flown, as well as the fact that just the SatCom came back online whilst the other systems remained offline.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:36 am
by OMP777X
777Jet wrote:
A MH370 thread that dies 2 months ago gets bumped the day after the current MH370 thread gets locked. LOL.


"""""It is being reported now that the latest piece of MH370 wreckage to have been recovered shows signs of fire damage and appears to have been from beneath the cabin, possibly from the avionics bay. This find could be big!"""""


Must have been some fire given the flight duration and route flown, as well as the fact that just the SatCom came back online whilst the other systems remained offline.



Well, the stories were written today 9/12, so I don't see how I could've discussed them in the other thread before it was locked yesterday on 9/11. This thread is also specifically about the debris found by Gibson in Madagascar, so it seemed relevant to continue that discussion rather than create a duplicate thread.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:44 am
by 777Jet
Actually, this could be an important development. It will also discredit the latest SCS shoot-down scenario presented by Spyhunter.

I think it is actually worth of a new thread on its own.

I can't believe how many possible MH370 debris pieces this guy has found, but I can believe that Malaysian hasn't collected them all from him yet.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:28 am
by seahawk
To me it looks a lot like a composite part which has spent some time in the surf.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:10 am
by OMP777X
seahawk wrote:
To me it looks a lot like a composite part which has spent some time in the surf.


It appears that you're not alone in your assessment of the material.

"While it remains too soon to know whether Mr Gibson's theory as to the provenance of the objects was correct, the new debris has the honeycomb pattern that was unique to Boeing's composite materials.

And some strongly resemble panelling used in the Boeing 777.

Mr Gibson has speculated that the panel with a scorched appearance could be from the avionics bay — which is located below and behind the cockpit under the main cabin floor."

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-1 ... fmredir=sm

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:12 am
by aw70
777Jet wrote:
Actually, this could be an important development. It will also discredit the latest SCS shoot-down scenario presented by Spyhunter.


That shoot-down scenario is not even worth discrediting, IMHO. I only replied to his posts in the other thread because I was a bit bored, and found it funny how someone with an alleged intelligence background apparently has zero clue on how R/F jamming actually works.

What I am looking forward to is how that chap Gibson is going to prove that the latest, allegedly singed, aircraft part (if it turns out to be that) is indeed from a 777, and in particular, the missing one. Sure, there are serial numbers of all sorts stamped all over an airframe - but the singed piece of composite he is holding in that photo does not look like the sort of fragment that would have any sort of identifying information on it. Or would it?

777Jet wrote:
I can't believe how many possible MH370 debris pieces this guy has found, but I can believe that Malaysian hasn't collected them all from him yet.


This need not have a sinister explanation at all. Malay officialdom would have made Franz Kafka have nightmares (way beyond the ones the poor chap had anyway). Maybe they just did not get around to filling in the correct paperwork yet.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:44 am
by OMP777X
The fire damage to the avionics bay on Page 13 of this .pdf file which documents a separate 777 avionics bay fire incident looks very similar to the debris Gibson has brought to Canberra.


https://t.co/yXDfzEOtAe

Here's a link to the photo:
https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8 ... _webp=true

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:06 am
by 777Jet
Any chances that any of these pieces are from other planes that crashed into the Indian Ocean (Yemenia A310 or the South African 747 that caught fire). I know the SAA 747 was ages ago, but just wondering... Could parts have washed up years ago only to be found now that people are looking for MH370 parts?

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:06 am
by SomebodyInTLS
OMP777X wrote:
The fire damage to the avionics bay on Page 13 of this .pdf file which documents a separate 777 avionics bay fire incident looks very similar to the debris Gibson has brought to Canberra.


https://t.co/yXDfzEOtAe

Here's a link to the photo:
https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8 ... _webp=true


I.e. because they're both a bit blackened they must both be scorched...?

Personally, I don't see the similarity at all. The honeycomb panel he's picked up doesn't have the smoky smudge of black caused by soot deposits as shown in the accident report, instead it looks like layers of paint and primer have been stripped away in flakes (the dark patches have jagged edges). Furthermore, I don't believe the honeycomb base plate is aluminium like the accident report (see the cracking and pitting plus splintering around the edges on the honeycomb panel) so any serious heat damage would degrade the matrix leaving patches of exposed glass or carbon fibres.

Edit: oh yeah, also the curvature of the panel would mean that this fire would be on the outside of the aircraft... and AFAIK there are no composite honeycomb skin panels anywhere near that area, so all in all definitely a no.

(By the way, I find avionics issues to be quite a likely reason for this incident, but this doesn't provide evidence for it IMO.)

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:40 pm
by SomebodyInTLS
I've now seen a better picture on the BBC: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37333762 so I humbly wish to alter my opinion...

In this picture it's clearer that the blackened areas are paint, not the base material as I thought. I was right about the paint flaking at the edges, it was just the other way round than I envisaged.

I can also see blistering of the paint where I thought it was pitting on the other images.

It's like those illusions where the shadows on an object make it look like it's in relief when it's actually hollow...

So yes, it looks slightly scorched paint - although not enough to bother the fibre-glass it's painted on to. And I still think that kind of panel would be on a flap or fairing and nowhere near the inside of the avionics bay.

Any chance that could be scorching from engine exhaust?

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:22 pm
by BaconButty
Aren't the gear doors honeycomb construction? The nose gear well is next to the avionics iirc.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:18 pm
by SomebodyInTLS
BaconButty wrote:
Aren't the gear doors honeycomb construction? The nose gear well is next to the avionics iirc.


Possibly. But the avionics are aft of the nose gear and the blackened paint looks to be on the outside of this panel.

If this really is the result of whatever caused the incident then I would guess it's heat on the outside of the aircraft ahead of this panel - so the skin would have to be burned through. That could be from the avionics bay in front of the belly fairing I suppose...

Another more remote possibility would be directly under the cockpit so it scorches the nose gear doors. The oxygen bottles did exactly that kind of damage under the cockpit windows in that other infamous incident, but that was on the side of the aircraft, not on the bottom.

This *could* be pointing towards something significant, but as I suggested earlier, it could also be a bit singed by something like engine or APU exhaust - so I wouldn't want to rush to a conclusion.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:49 pm
by salttee
777Jet wrote:
It will also discredit the latest SCS shoot-down scenario presented by Spyhunter.

There is nothing of substance there to discredit. Why do you want to drag that utter nonsense into this thread?

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:16 pm
by apfpilot
My guess is that it is from the radome and the black is antistatic paint.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:09 am
by spudh
SomebodyInTLS wrote:

Edit: oh yeah, also the curvature of the panel would mean that this fire would be on the outside of the aircraft
)


Maybe ocean currents brought it round from the SCS

salttee wrote:
777Jet wrote:
It will also discredit the latest SCS shoot-down scenario presented by Spyhunter.

There is nothing of substance there to discredit. Why do you want to drag that utter nonsense into this thread?


Because some hypersensitive members got the most entertaining thread in years, where he was happily posting his wonderfully crafted fiction, locked!! WTF!! Some of you guys would want to climb off your high horse and have one look at the name of what this thing purports to be, a FORUM.

Where people meet to dicuss ideas!

I've been through many a flame fest here with proper trolls trying full on bullyboy tactics but that was not the case here. We had a coherent (if far fetched) scenario outlined in artful prose from start to finish with imaginative detail and entertaining flourishes. This was countered for the most part by reasoned logic from (v. Patiently I might add) experts in their fields.

Classic!!

And yet the posterior poker yielders wanted it locked!!

The truth is nobody knows yet what happened to MH370 and until such time as it is found all bets are off and all scenarios are plausible until debunked

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:16 am
by 777Jet
salttee wrote:
777Jet wrote:
It will also discredit the latest SCS shoot-down scenario presented by Spyhunter.

There is nothing of substance there to discredit. Why do you want to drag that utter nonsense into this thread?


Why do some people keep returning to these threads under a different username?

One person in particular is at least up to their third different username lol.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:51 am
by salttee
spudh wrote:
the most entertaining thread in years.................... Where people meet to dicuss ideas!

There's something missing in that view of the MH-370 thread(s). What you are missing is that the thread is/was about MH-370; the thread is not and was not fiction. It is about a real event that happened to real people and does have continuing relevance to many of us in our everyday lives. These MH-370 threads are meant to be entertaining only in so much as the viewers are interested in MH-370. If you're looking for fantasy or science fiction there are plenty of other avenues available on the internet - they don't belong here.

spudh wrote:
The truth is nobody knows yet what happened to MH370 and until such time as it is found all bets are off and all scenarios are plausible until debunked
What you are saying here is that you've lost interest in MH-370; that's OK, you can explore whatever personal avenues you wish, you can delve into witchcraft if you want and and you can write about it, create forums for it if you choose, but this stuff doesn't belong here. This is where people come to discuss or to learn about MH-370.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:54 am
by seahawk
The part seems to have a bit of a sticky dark paint applied over white paint, over primer. I am not sure it is from a 777. Could be part of a boat with antiskid coating.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:39 am
by Spyhunter
Since my first post was deleted, I assume by the moderators, although in fairness it used moderate language, I will confine myself to a short point. I am of the course the Spyhunter referred to above. I don't post in different names and I don't do anonymous.

There is a fundamental problem with the wreckage found off East Africa: it suggests an aircraft break-up, either at altitude or on impact with the water. How can that be reconciled with the lack of wreckage in the SIO search boxes?

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:12 am
by 777Jet
My polite reply to your post was also deleted.

There was no legit reason for either post to be deleted. Welcome to the MH370 threads! Such activities have been going on for years, so it is better to keep your posts short and not waste too much time on them in case they get deleted.

BTW - You are not the person who has participated in the these threads using at least 3 different user names that I was referring to. Those who have followed these treads for a long time know who I am referring to. Their "I know it all 100%" attitude and criticisms of anybody doubting their pet theory has not changed and gives them away. They even put their life on Z doing it. I wonder why they feel the need to hide and keep changing usernames? That will cost less for them to do know that it is free to join LOL.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:38 am
by aw70
Spyhunter wrote:
There is a fundamental problem with the wreckage found off East Africa: it suggests an aircraft break-up, either at altitude or on impact with the water. How can that be reconciled with the lack of wreckage in the SIO search boxes?


In contrast to your shoot-down theory (which has insurmountable issues that make it impossible to reconcile with reality), the point you are making here has some merit. To wit: if a tiny percentage of MH370 debris makes it as far as Madagascar, it stands to reason there could resp. should have been substantially more of it floating around in the impact area, in the immediate post-crash timeframe. Which makes it indeed odd that none of the search a/c, or for that matter also the considerable number of satellites that were used, saw anything worth reporting. At all. All those searches yielded exactly zilch. Quite strange, given that some floating debris indeed survived, and went on floating for many months afterwards.

I do not know the definite answer to this riddle, either: but my best guess is that the incident taking place in the SIO goes a long way in explaining this.

That place is mind-bogglingly huge. And has some of the worst weather on the planet. You really have to know where to look in the first place, if you want to find anything smaller than, say, an intact ship that is still afloat.

Also, contrary to what you say, the fact that some floating debris was found does not necessarily indicate a total break-up of the airframe on water contact. All the pieces that have been found so far could have been torn off during a more or less controlled ditching that led to the majority of the airframe sinking to the seabed in one piece.

For me personally, the "controlled ditching" theory has always been a bit of a long shot, though. It took really calm water in the Hudson, and a pilot who knew what he was doing (glider pilots ftw!), for the Sully ditching to work out. Historically, most other attempts at ditching airliners did not go quite so well. If I try to imagine a possibly uncontrolled ditching in the 5m+ swell of the SIO... nah, there should have been a debris field. This would not have gone well. Not even with Captain Sully at the controls. The SIO is a wild place, and calm seas are very rare there.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:56 am
by 777Jet
aw70 wrote:
Spyhunter wrote:
There is a fundamental problem with the wreckage found off East Africa: it suggests an aircraft break-up, either at altitude or on impact with the water. How can that be reconciled with the lack of wreckage in the SIO search boxes?


In contrast to your shoot-down theory (which has insurmountable issues that make it impossible to reconcile with reality), the point you are making here has some merit. To wit: if a tiny percentage of MH370 debris makes it as far as Madagascar, it stands to reason there could resp. should have been substantially more of it floating around in the impact area, in the immediate post-crash timeframe. Which makes it indeed odd that none of the search a/c, or for that matter also the considerable number of satellites that were used, saw anything worth reporting. At all. All those searches yielded exactly zilch. Quite strange, given that some floating debris indeed survived, and went on floating for many months afterwards.

I do not know the definite answer to this riddle, either: but my best guess is that the incident taking place in the SIO goes a long way in explaining this.

That place is mind-bogglingly huge. And has some of the worst weather on the planet. You really have to know where to look in the first place, if you want to find anything smaller than, say, an intact ship that is still afloat.

Also, contrary to what you say, the fact that some floating debris was found does not necessarily indicate a total break-up of the airframe on water contact. All the pieces that have been found so far could have been torn off during a more or less controlled ditching that led to the majority of the airframe sinking to the seabed in one piece.

For me personally, the "controlled ditching" theory has always been a bit of a long shot, though. It took really calm water in the Hudson, and a pilot who knew what he was doing (glider pilots ftw!), for the Sully ditching to work out. Historically, most other attempts at ditching airliners did not go quite so well. If I try to imagine a possibly uncontrolled ditching in the 5m+ swell of the SIO... nah, there should have been a debris field. This would not have gone well. Not even with Captain Sully at the controls. The SIO is a wild place, and calm seas are very rare there.


If MH370 cartwheel ditched like the Ethiopian 767 then there still would have been a lot of large pieces that would have sunk in the 2+ weeks it took investigators to arrive in the area.

The lack of debris notion is exactly what undermines any SCS scenario.

Searchers were in the SCS area around IGARI the next day. They stayed there for 2 weeks and found nothing. Nothing. Nothing has been found around the SCS in the last 2 1/2 years. Nothing. The IGARI area of the SCS is surrounded by land in every direction that is much closer than the land around the Indian Ocean is to the SIO crash area.

You see, the lack of anything in the thoroughly searched SCS area from day 1 to 2 1/2 years 100% rules out any SCS crash site. This point continues to be ignored by the SCS theorist despite them implying that a lack of SIO debris undermines any SIO theory LOL.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:59 am
by seahawk
Spyhunter wrote:
There is a fundamental problem with the wreckage found off East Africa: it suggests an aircraft break-up, either at altitude or on impact with the water. How can that be reconciled with the lack of wreckage in the SIO search boxes?


First of all the search area is huge and it is also deep. It has been learnt from the search for sunken vessels that, even if you know the exact position the vessel sunk, underwater currents will displace the wreckage by quite some distance. The debris field of the titanic is about 2 square miles big and quite a distance away of the position transmitted when it sunk.

Now imagine the debris field of an airliner. We can be quite certain that the wings would brake up and that the engines would separate themselves from the rest of the wreckage. But even the engines would travel quite some distance from the crash location and they would bury themselves into the mud on the ocean floor, while braking up even more when finally slowed to a standstill. Lighter parts will drift further with the currents. Now add the fact that the search is based on the premise that the course was held constant during the final descent, which does not have to be the case, and you come to the conclusion that it is quite possible that the wreckage is outside the search area. It made sense to define a most likely search area (which they should have combed through by the end of the year) but this does not mean the wreckage could not be lying just a few miles outside of it.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:05 am
by 777Jet
seahawk wrote:
Now imagine the debris field of an airliner. We can be quite certain that the wings would brake up and that the engines would separate themselves from the rest of the wreckage. But even the engines would travel quite some distance from the crash location and they would bury themselves into the mud on the ocean floor, while braking up even more when finally slowed to a standstill. Lighter parts will drift further with the currents. Now add the fact that the search is based on the premise that the course was held constant during the final descent, which does not have to be the case, and you come to the conclusion that it is quite possible that the wreckage is outside the search area. It made sense to define a most likely search area (which they should have combed through by the end of the year) but this does not mean the wreckage could not be lying just a few miles outside of it.


This is what worries me; the debris field just lying outside of the search area and being missed. Although, this could always be the case no matter how many times they extend the search area; the debris might just be outside...

Yes, remember how long it took to find the AF447 wreckage and boxes despite having the tail fin a few days later and pretty much knowing the area she went in.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:58 am
by SomebodyInTLS
apfpilot wrote:
My guess is that it is from the radome and the black is antistatic paint.


Yep. I could go with that...

Is there always black antistatic paint under the airline livery? MH had stripes of various colours on their radomes but none were black.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:14 am
by SomebodyInTLS
aw70 wrote:
it stands to reason there could resp. should have been substantially more of it floating around in the impact area, in the immediate post-crash timeframe. Which makes it indeed odd that none of the search a/c, or for that matter also the considerable number of satellites that were used, saw anything worth reporting. At all. All those searches yielded exactly zilch. Quite strange, given that some floating debris indeed survived, and went on floating for many months afterwards.


Auto-answering question in 3...2...1...

aw70 wrote:
That place is mind-bogglingly huge. And has some of the worst weather on the planet. You really have to know where to look in the first place, if you want to find anything smaller than, say, an intact ship that is still afloat.


Genuinely don't understand how you post the first part and then the second without seeing the connection...

(Not to mention the very long delay between the incident, discovery and processing of satellite data, deployment of search vessels to arrival on site - a matter of months!)

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:16 am
by SomebodyInTLS
seahawk wrote:
The part seems to have a bit of a sticky dark paint applied over white paint, over primer. I am not sure it is from a 777. Could be part of a boat with antiskid coating.


Yep. I could go with that too...

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:05 pm
by seahawk
The plane crashed on the 8th, search in the SIO started on the 18th.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:32 pm
by apfpilot
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
apfpilot wrote:
My guess is that it is from the radome and the black is antistatic paint.


Yep. I could go with that...

Is there always black antistatic paint under the airline livery? MH had stripes of various colours on their radomes but none were black.



Yep, at least for every airline we've repaired one for, actually for every radome we've ever repaired.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:01 pm
by salttee
seahawk wrote:
The plane crashed on the 8th, search in the SIO started on the 18th.

When they first searched the SIO they were in the wrong place based on faulty fuel estimates and an unfortunate case of Ocean Shield mistaking its own pings for the plane's ELT.

They focused their searches in the region around E104 S21 for almost another month. That location is about a thousand miles away from what is now considered the most likely area to search. This would be akin to searching in a forest in Bulgaria for a set of keys you had dropped in Amsterdam. It should be no surprise that their search came up empty.

Re: More MH370 Debris Found, This Time In Madagascar

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:28 pm
by BaconButty
seahawk wrote:
The part seems to have a bit of a sticky dark paint applied over white paint, over primer. I am not sure it is from a 777. Could be part of a boat with antiskid coating.

Me too (if by antiskid you mean antifoul). I didn't think honeycomb laminates were common for actual hulls though? Not unheard of, though.

Mr Gibson's no mug though: Here's his report on the pieces:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vi1glw0o70ump ... .docx?dl=0

Interesting read.