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mayor
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Re: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:15 am

What I'm doing is trying to illustrate the point that the 100% completion rate doesn't happen by itself, but that cancellations, delays, etc. all contribute to the total on-time program. You can't have one without it affecting another component.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
Sancho99504
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Re: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:58 am

Delta delays flights instead of canceling them so they can say "we have 100 days if zero cancellations". They cancelled SEA-NRT and SEA-AMS the other day, but instead of calling them canceled, they delayed them until the next morning. It causes a lot of problems, but it's good for advertising.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
panamair
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Re: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:54 am

But what many don't realize is that this is actually great for the passenger. These days with 80-90% load factors, it can be very difficult to get rebooked onto another flight within a reasonable timeframe. By still having the original flight go albeit later, there is an extra option in case the rebooking isn't feasible until one or two days later. Bear in mind that when DL does this extended delay, it already tries to rebook the passengers on all other options, so it's not like it's forcing the pax to stay on the original flight . So where's the harm?
 
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tlecam
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Re: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:27 pm

Reading this thread is tiring. There's a lot of good, useful information, but it gets lost in the irrational bias of some of the posters.

100 days of 100% completed main flight flights is a good thing.

Having said that, there are some additional topics that are worth discussing without hyperbolic, hallucinogenic ramblings that vary on the themes of "Delta is a deity to whom we should all bow our heads," or "Delta is the devil incarnate and Dante should cpen a new circle of hell specifically for the experience of traveling on Delta."

- Delta connection - clearly it does not complete as many ops as mainline. Does Delta perform better or worse than AA/UA and does anyone have any actual data to back up that claim that is recent?

- 100% completed main line flights doesn't mean that there were no delays or missed connections. Is Delta experiencing more frequent, very long delays than other carriers? IS there any statistical data to support this?

I'm sure there are other topics as well.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
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piedmont762
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Re: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:27 pm

Regardless if Delta Connection is included or not, this is extremely impressive and why Delta continues to be the only airline I fly with.
 
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northwestEWR
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Re: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:15 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
Delta delays flights instead of canceling them so they can say "we have 100 days if zero cancellations". They cancelled SEA-NRT and SEA-AMS the other day, but instead of calling them canceled, they delayed them until the next morning. It causes a lot of problems, but it's good for advertising.

This is not accurate. On June 12th--SEA-NRT DL167 and SEA-AMS DL144 were both cancelled. Passengers were rebooked where able and they created an extra flight the following day for customer protection and aircraft positioning. On the 13th, DL9930 operated SEA-AMS and DL9860 flew SEA-NRT.

Both flights were cancelled and the 12th no longer counts as a 100% completion factor day.

tlecam wrote:
Is Delta experiencing more frequent, very long delays than other carriers? IS there any statistical data to support this?

No there isn't. Delta is not only the leader in completion factor but in A0 and A14 as well. If Delta delayed every flight infinitely to maintain CF, they wouldn't be on top of A0 and A14. You can't have both.
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
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antoniemey
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Re: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:31 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
Delta delays flights instead of canceling them so they can say "we have 100 days if zero cancellations".


No, they avoid cancelling flights because that's what their passenger surveys have told them people prefer. UA and AA are operating in a very similar way for the same reason, and the delay statistics are just as publicly available as the cancellation statistics. And, honestly, no worse than they were prior to this change. Now, though, instead of your flight being cancelled when it rolls past a 4 hour delay or so, it could actually go once whatever issue is delaying it that long is solved. (Seriously, it was only 4 years ago that I was working on the ramp and could count on any flight delayed by more than 4 hours changing to a cancellation.)

Passengers have told the major carriers that they'd rather wait out a long delay than have the flight cancelled. The airlines have thus altered their practices to accommodate and now advertise the resulting "good news" about their lack of cancellations.

Once a year travelers are rather clueless in a lot of cases, but the regular travelers know that if there are delays, most of the flights are already going to be full and they're likely going to be stuck for awhile in the case of a cancellation. They know that if they get rebooked to another flight it will likely be on another carrier or through another hub, possibly one they don't much care for. They know that the more changes made to their itinerary once they've checked their bags, the more likely it is that their bag gets delayed.

They also know that the airline needs to move the plane somewhere else anyway, so they'd rather it take them where they were already planning to go. They've told the airlines this and the airlines have listened...

Only to have armchair CEO's on Airliners.net go on a rant about it claiming they're now being deceitful in their business practices.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
BMI727
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Re: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:34 am

mayor wrote:
What I'm doing is trying to illustrate the point that the 100% completion rate doesn't happen by itself, but that cancellations, delays, etc. all contribute to the total on-time program. You can't have one without it affecting another component.

Everyone already knows that. What's your point?

tlecam wrote:
100 days of 100% completed main flight flights is a good thing.

Good, but not perfect.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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piedmont762
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Re: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:32 am

I'm elite with Delta and it's rare if they are ever late - and I haven't witnessed a cancellation in years. This goes for flying on nearly 30 year old 757 and M88

Airlines like AA and UA with newer planes seems to cancel or delay more often. Tough to admit these competitors maintain a better operation compared to Delta. It's absolutely true
 
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mayor
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Re: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:48 am

BMI727 wrote:
mayor wrote:
What I'm doing is trying to illustrate the point that the 100% completion rate doesn't happen by itself, but that cancellations, delays, etc. all contribute to the total on-time program. You can't have one without it affecting another component.

Everyone already knows that. What's your point?


Apparently, you don't because if you did, you'd see that they are having fewer cancellations and fewer delays.........don't know what else the consumer could ask for.


tlecam wrote:
100 days of 100% completed main flight flights is a good thing.

Good, but not perfect.




May be just "good" and not perfect, but it seems like they're "gooder" than UA and AA at this.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
BMI727
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Re: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:57 pm

mayor wrote:
Apparently, you don't because if you did, you'd see that they are having fewer cancellations and fewer delays

Unless you can show that none of the delays they had were excessive delays because they wanted to maintain their completion record, this point is irrelevant. If you want to talk about that, start that thread. Here it is a red herring.

Second, the flight after mine doesn't mean jack to me. I'm paying for my flight, not the next one so I can't cut them any slack for trying to keep the network intact at my expense.

How can I be impressed at a metric knowing that part of how it was achieved was by doing things that are not necessarily in my best interest as a passenger? That said, most of the traveling public won't put the thought into this that I have and will thus be more receptive to your shameless pom-pom waving.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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b727fa
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Re: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:15 pm

"None" and "fewer" are two different words and are not mutually exclusive. You're missing big picture by forcing absolutes to "prove" your point.

And "shameless pom-pom waving?" LOL...we all know you SHAKE pom-poms. (wink)
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:33 pm

BMI727 wrote:
mayor wrote:
Apparently, you don't because if you did, you'd see that they are having fewer cancellations and fewer delays

Unless you can show that none of the delays they had were excessive delays because they wanted to maintain their completion record, this point is irrelevant. If you want to talk about that, start that thread. Here it is a red herring.

Second, the flight after mine doesn't mean jack to me. I'm paying for my flight, not the next one so I can't cut them any slack for trying to keep the network intact at my expense.

How can I be impressed at a metric knowing that part of how it was achieved was by doing things that are not necessarily in my best interest as a passenger? That said, most of the traveling public won't put the thought into this that I have and will thus be more receptive to your shameless pom-pom waving.



Where is your data for:

1. Delta's delays and long delays?
2. Metrics for at least the other US3 that show that Delta has more delays and more long delays, particularly data that shows a significant difference for Delta
3. Metrics that show Delta's delays and long delays have increased relevant to decrease in cancelled flights.
4.. Data that indicates that Delta the reason for the extensive delay is to keep this metric intact?

I don't get what your end game is. Are you working off an assumption? Off anecdotal experiences? Do you have facts/data that haven't shared here?

Asking for proof that your unproven assertion is wrong is bizarre.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
BMI727
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Re: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:47 pm

tlecam wrote:
Off anecdotal experiences?

Yes. And you'll note that I never made assertions that situations such as mine are common, but only one is enough to call 100% into question. I suffered a long delay and frankly would have been better off if the flight had been cancelled.

How can I be impressed with no cancellations having been in a situation where a cancellation would have been an improvement?
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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tlecam
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Re: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:24 am

Ok, that's fair. I was trying to figure out if your point was that 100% isn't always as good as it's cracked up to be or if you were making a broader point that DL is delaying more or having longer delays more than its peers or what.

And for what it's worth, I would have been royally pissed in the same situation.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90

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