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mayor
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:07 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 47):
Go to the BTS Ontime Stats. Use the detailed statistics section. I won't spoon feed you. Look up departure stats for random months at random hubs. You will find them here and there. DL is running a great operation in general, but they are not at 100 days of true cancel-free in 2016. Not even close.

You're the one making the assertion, so it should be YOU that provides the facts and stats. Instead, all we get from you, besides your obvious hate for ANYTHING that DL does, is ancedotal evidence, as usual.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
N1120A
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:37 pm

Quoting global1 (Thread starter):

So far this year, Delta has exceeded 100 days of 100% mainline completion, with more than half of 2016 ahead of us. Amazing operational performance.

At this pace, the airline could well exceed 200 days of zero mainline cancellations in 2016.

Yet they still lead the industry in delays over 4 hours.

Quoting global1 (Reply 12):
Fact: Delta, by far and away, is running the most reliable operation of the major US major airlines.

By one metric. Not by others.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
klm617
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:36 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 46):
The difference is, in that thread you had zero proof of anything you were saying. All you can say is "uh I'm working on it"

thats meaningless. So I'll tell you the same thing I told MSPNWA,

Actually if you go back to the other thread I provided data to show you that when FI is in the market fares are about $200 less why do you think DL added the MSP-KEF flight to drive them out of the market you can't tell me there is enough O&D traffic to support two flights a day in that market..
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
johns624
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:52 pm

So klm617, what US domestic airline do you like?
 
global1
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:53 pm

Delta is also a leader in on-time arrivals.

So far as delays go, all carriers experience them. Research however has shown that passengers overwhelmingly prefer a delayed flight to a cancelled one.

Hence the print ads "Dellta Has Cancelled Cancellations "

Keep climbing
 
IPFreely
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:14 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 34):
The facts say they are. The DOT records it, and it's common enough that you might find one just browsing FlightAware or FR24. Airlines are cooking the books by creating extremely long, often overnight "delays" instead of cancelling the flight.

The DOT statistics are somewhat objective and you will rarely see Delta reference them. Instead they have created their own made-up "OPC" statistic. If you look at their press releases, they are #1 by their own calculation of their own made-up "OPC". And if you look at the fine print, they are actually #3. Alaska and Hawaiian are #1 and #2, so Delta excludes them in their comparison to other airlines in order to become #1.

It isn't so much a cooked book as a book of fiction. The DL fanboys eat it up but most of the travelling public judges by their own experience, not by phony marketing.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:24 pm

Quoting klm617 (Reply 52):

Actually if you go back to the other thread I provided data to show you that when FI is in the market fares are about $200 less why do you think DL added the MSP-KEF flight to drive them out of the market you can't tell me there is enough O&D traffic to support two flights a day in that market..

You picked a random day and did a random search. That isn't data. Try to give us something real.

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 55):

It isn't so much a cooked book as a book of fiction. The DL fanboys eat it up but most of the travelling public judges by their own experience, not by phony marketing.

You are right.

Delta has a 20 cent(on the dollar) revenue premium on its domestic network. Mainline and DCI.

So the market shows you are kind of full of it. shocking.
 
panamair
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:40 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 55):
And if you look at the fine print, they are actually #3. Alaska and Hawaiian are #1 and #2, so Delta excludes them in their comparison to other airlines in order to become #1.

But they EXPLICITLY mention that they are comparing themselves to UA and AA - both of which are more of their peer group than AS or HA in terms of size and scope of operation. Honestly, if you're HA and you're not #1, you should go out of business.

For the DOT statistics, HA reports for a grand total of 17 airports and AS reports for a total of 64, compared to DL's 147. Seriously, if DL's scope of operation was only 17 or 64 airports.....

And even with that imbalance, Delta from time to time even beats HA and/or AS. For example, March 2016, DL came in #2, even beating out AS:

#1 HA: 17 airports: 89.8%
#2 DL: 147 airports: 87.9%
#3 AS: 64 airports: 86.4%

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 55):
The DOT statistics are somewhat objective and you will rarely see Delta reference them

Then what are these? These are all news releases in the last few months from Delta referencing the DOT statistics.

http://news.delta.com/delta-notches-...ellar-march-operations-performance
http://news.delta.com/delta-s-comple...igh-feb-dot-ops-performance-report
http://news.delta.com/jan-dot-delta-still-strong-despite-winter-storms

http://news.delta.com/delta-leads-do...global-competitors-2015-operations
http://news.delta.com/delta-operatio...g-tops-industry-2015-according-dot

Quoting N1120A (Reply 51):
By one metric. Not by others.

Not true. See all of the DOT reports as mentioned above.
 
global1
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:43 pm

Delta is the on-time leader amongst the 4 largest UScarriers.

Alaska and Hawaiian are a fraction of Delta's size and do not connect anywhere near the number of passengers.

Alaska operates one aircraft type and If you can't produce good on-time statistics when your only base is Honolulu with overwhelmingly fair weather, then something is wrong.

Don't understand why some posters seem to have a difficult time accepting facts and reality.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but magic unicorns do not exist.

[Edited 2016-06-11 15:49:10]
 
klm617
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:04 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 56):
You picked a random day and did a random search. That isn't data. Try to give us something real.

What critera would you like me to use do you want me to check the data for a whole year be realistic my friend I proved it to you and you're still blind to the truth. Let me know how you would like the analysis to be done.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:45 pm

Quoting klm617 (Reply 59):

What are you expecting DL to do when a competitor enters the market? Sit back and let Icelandair ruin their yields on Europe routes?

It's called competition.

Also: what does this have to do with their operational performance? NOTHING.

[Edited 2016-06-11 16:51:18]
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
coolian2
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:47 pm

While I admire Delta and they're definitely setting the US3 standard, I don't like this.

I had this experience just after the NW merge. I'd booked on DL but had a Compass flight from SLC to MEM. Plane went tech, we were told this, I had to panic sprint through SLC and PHX after they rebooked me...only to arrive in MEM 10 minutes after my original flight had been completed.

Given the original flight was ~8 hours delayed it wasn't a RON situation, it was simply padding stats.
Q300/ATR72-600/737-200/-300/-400/-700/-800/A320/767-200/-300/757-200/777-300ER/
747-200/-300/-400/ER/A340-300/A380-800/MD-83/-88/CRJ-700/-900
 
e38
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:28 am

Quoting 11725Flyer (Reply 6), "Delta pilots are not a happy bunch right now . . ."

11725Flyer, just for your information, that is not a correct statement by any stretch of the imagination.

e38
 
global1
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:29 am

Hard to believe the NW merge was about 8 years ago.

Time flies
 
Yakflyer
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:36 am

Quoting e38 (Reply 62):
11725Flyer, just for your information, that is not a correct statement by any stretch of the imagination.

e38

Actually quite a few of them are very cranky now.
 
aviationaware
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:59 am

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 14):
I'm pretty sure Allegiant can beat that statistic by a lot.

Allegiant is also about 1% Delta's size so it's completely irrelevant.
 
IPFreely
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:47 pm

Quoting aviationaware (Reply 65):
Allegiant is also about 1% Delta's size so it's completely irrelevant.
Quoting global1 (Reply 58):
Alaska and Hawaiian are a fraction of Delta's size and do not connect anywhere near the number of passengers.

If Delta's made-up statistic can't be used to compare smaller airlines to Delta then they need to cease and desist from comparing themselves to larger airlines. Digging deeper into Delta's press releases just reveals how phony they really are.
 
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mayor
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:09 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 66):
If Delta's made-up statistic can't be used to compare smaller airlines to Delta then they need to cease and desist from comparing themselves to larger airlines. Digging deeper into Delta's press releases just reveals how phony they really are.

You mean the "made up statitisic" that comes from the DOT stats? Is the DOT now making up those stats? The only phony here is you.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
gonnagetbumpy
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:15 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 67):
If Delta's made-up statistic can't be used to compare smaller airlines to Delta then they need to cease and desist from comparing themselves to larger airlines. Digging deeper into Delta's press releases just reveals how phony they really are.

Delta is actually larger than United and slightly smaller than American. In terms of on-time, baggage lost and completion factor (including Delta Connection), Delta is far and above United and American. The statistics from the government prove this.
 
airzona11
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:01 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 66):

If Delta's made-up statistic can't be used to compare smaller airlines to Delta then they need to cease and desist from comparing themselves to larger airlines. Digging deeper into Delta's press releases just reveals how phony they really are.

Ahh, but they used the DOTs stats, and if we are talking about smaller airlines, United is smaller, then you are willing to concede they are better than United? And better than the larger AA? Or I guess what do other airline beat Delta in? Besides acquiescing your putrid Delta hatred?
 
dlflynhayn
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:55 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 66):
If Delta's made-up statistic can't be used to compare smaller airlines to Delta then they need to cease and desist from comparing themselves to larger airlines. Digging deeper into Delta's press releases just reveals how phony they really are.

OMG this guy is amazing AS must be paying this guy wow just wow...Phony haha i can't stop laughing..100 days of 100% awesome!!
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:04 pm

Quoting klm617 (Reply 59):

What critera would you like me to use do you want me to check the data for a whole year be realistic my friend I proved it to you and you're still blind to the truth. Let me know how you would like the analysis to be done.

I am being realistic.

And yes YOY comparisons would be a good start vs one random day. Since you are going to bring down big evil Delta and such you might want to start using real data.

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 66):

If Delta's made-up statistic can't be used to compare smaller airlines to Delta then they need to cease and desist from comparing themselves to larger airlines. Digging deeper into Delta's press releases just reveals how phony they really are.

Hey. Troll. Focus.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 56):

Delta has a 20 cent(on the dollar) revenue premium on its domestic network. Mainline and DCI.

Explain how this is the case if what you say is true. We are waiting......
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:13 pm

From my own experience the statistics are true as far as they go. However, DL has just started delaying flights for greater amounts of time instead of cancelling them. I have been on flights that were not cancelled but did not leave for 12-18 hours later. Technically it was not cancelled, but in the past it would have been.

I was in BNA recently and managed to snag a long delayed BNA-ATL flight that left earlier than the one I was scheduled to be on. It had been delayed about 10 hours. There were 5 people on the A320 to Atlanta. None of them were original passengers. Technically that flight will go down as not cancelled--just delayed. But, realistically, it was since everyone was accommodated on other flights.

This is happening more and more. Flights that in the past would be cancelled never are. They just turn into zombie flights that I suspect helps them achieve their no cancellation metrics.
 
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mayor
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:22 pm

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 72):


This is happening more and more. Flights that in the past would be cancelled never are. They just turn into zombie flights that I suspect helps them achieve their no cancellation metrics.

And yet, DL's delay stats are better than ever, so what does that do to your theory?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:23 pm

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 72):

This is happening more and more. Flights that in the past would be cancelled never are. They just turn into zombie flights that I suspect helps them achieve their no cancellation metrics.

Delta isn't just focused on cancellation metrics. This is the problem that a lot here don't get.


No one wants to take a delay about as much as no one wants to cancel a flight.


"zombie" flights happen more now for many other reasons than just cancelation stats.
 
IPFreely
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:33 pm

Quoting airzona11 (Reply 69):
Ahh, but they used the DOTs stats,

They skimmed some data from the DOT stats, applied their own spin, and created their own calculated number. You remind me of panamair above, who referenced DOT statistics by posting links to Delta press releases LOL. You fanboys crack me up.
 
alfa164
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:41 pm

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 72):
DL has just started delaying flights for greater amounts of time instead of cancelling them.

I suspect most passengers would prefer a delayed flight to a canceled flight; at least they arrive at their destination, albeit later than expected.

Quoting mayor (Reply 73):
DL's delay stats are better than ever, so what does that do to your theory?

I don't think you will get a reply...

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 70):
OMG this guy is amazing AS must be paying this guy wow just wow.

I don't think AS would pay a fool like him...

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 75):
You fanboys crack me up.

You really are determined to "P" all over yourself, aren't you?
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
nws2002
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:50 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 73):

And yet, DL's delay stats are better than ever, so what does that do to your theory?

That is what I do not understand about those who say DL is just posting long delays instead of cancelling flights. Even if that is the case, more of their flights are on time compared with other airlines. Also, if you are rebooked and didn't have to sit through the 12-18 hr delay, then why does it matter? DL has to take the hit either for the cancellation or the delay. There is no magic way to hide this stuff unless they are outright falsifying reports to the DOT, and I doubt they are because the risk is huge.
 
BMI727
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:52 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 73):
And yet, DL's delay stats are better than ever, so what does that do to your theory?

I don't think it's a theory, it's just pointing out that this is a metric that, like any other, can be and likely is manipulated. It doesn't necessarily mean what the airline wants us to think it means.

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 76):
I suspect most passengers would prefer a delayed flight to a canceled flight; at least they arrive at their destination, albeit later than expected.

Not in my case. Stumbling back home at 4 a.m. after an accidental redeye didn't do me much good. In hindsight I'd have much preferred just cancelling the flight, having the airline tell me to come back in the morning and getting me to my destination at 8-9 a.m. with some rest. But at least it kept the streak going.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:01 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 75):

They skimmed some data from the DOT stats, applied their own spin, and created their own calculated number. You remind me of panamair above, who referenced DOT statistics by posting links to Delta press releases LOL. You fanboys crack me up.

You being a troll and not being about to read cracks me up. Waiting for a reason why DL is doing so well if what you say is true. People are paying more to fly Delta, explain it. Come on troll.

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 76):

I suspect most passengers would prefer a delayed flight to a canceled flight; at least they arrive at their destination, albeit later than expected.

you are correct. At least according to the surveys and such that DL and others have done.

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 77):

That is what I do not understand about those who say DL is just posting long delays instead of cancelling flights. Even if that is the case, more of their flights are on time compared with other airlines. Also, if you are rebooked and didn't have to sit through the 12-18 hr delay, then why does it matter? DL has to take the hit either for the cancellation or the delay. There is no magic way to hide this stuff unless they are outright falsifying reports to the DOT, and I doubt they are because the risk is huge.

exactly.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 78):

I don't think it's a theory, it's just pointing out that this is a metric that, like any other, can be and likely is manipulated. It doesn't necessarily mean what the airline wants us to think it means.

The issue with this argument is DL is still a leader in delay numbers and arrival numbers. If this was nearly the wide spread issue some make it out to be DL would have terrible stats in those metrics.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 78):

Not in my case. Stumbling back home at 4 a.m. after an accidental redeye didn't do me much good. In hindsight I'd have much preferred just cancelling the flight, having the airline tell me to come back in the morning and getting me to my destination at 8-9 a.m. with some rest. But at least it kept the streak going.

The issue is most have told the airlines they don't want the flight to cancel.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 47):

enilria gave evidence of this behavior last summer. It's been proven many times.

Enilrila or you have yet to post a single data point that I have seen.

Do you know what data is? It isn't based on your opinion

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 47):
The government stats show it. Flight tracking websites show it. I know people who have been on those flights. You just don't want to accept the truth.

If you prove it to me I will gladly accept it. Show me Delta is doing this all the time, regularly and I will gladly accept.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 47):

Go to the BTS Ontime Stats. Use the detailed statistics section. I won't spoon feed you. Look up departure stats for random months at random hubs. You will find them here and there. DL is running a great operation in general, but they are not at 100 days of true cancel-free in 2016. Not even close.

All of those words and so little in it.

Try this next time

"Blah blah Blah Delta sucks because they bought NWA and I can't move on Blah blah blah". We all know thats is your issue and you don't have the facts to prove anything you say so just be honest about it.  
 
BMI727
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:06 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 79):
The issue with this argument is DL is still a leader in delay numbers and arrival numbers.

That's a different argument.

Touting a metric that says you complete all of your flights rests on the premise that a delay is always better than a cancellation, which is not the case.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:18 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 73):
And yet, DL's delay stats are better than ever, so what does that do to your theory?

It is not a theory. It is personal observation. And one does not necessarily affect the other. They may have fewer..but longer delays. IDK. And IDC. I am just passing along personal experience. I personally could care less about this meaningless metric.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 74):
"zombie" flights happen more now for many other reasons than just cancelation stats.

They could have all sorts of reasons they are doing what they are doing. I just observe. Being a DM I can observe more than the average flyer.

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 76):
I suspect most passengers would prefer a delayed flight to a canceled flight; at least they arrive at their destination, albeit later than expected.

I am sure some do. Some may want to bail. And some may have no choice. In my observations if you have several members in your party (say a family) with no status and cheap ticket you will probably have no choice.

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 76):
I don't think you will get a reply...

Why would you say that? Guess you were wrong.
 
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mayor
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:20 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 75):

They skimmed some data from the DOT stats, applied their own spin, and created their own calculated number.

And you know this for a fact?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 78):

Not in my case. Stumbling back home at 4 a.m. after an accidental redeye didn't do me much good. In hindsight I'd have much preferred just cancelling the flight, having the airline tell me to come back in the morning and getting me to my destination at 8-9 a.m. with some rest. But at least it kept the streak going.

Don't forget, that a/c has to get to its destination for positioning at some point.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 80):

Touting a metric that says you complete all of your flights rests on the premise that a delay is always better than a cancellation, which is not the case.

You can't position a flight if you don't COMPLETE it.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
delimit
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:33 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 80):

Touting a metric that says you complete all of your flights rests on the premise that a delay is always better than a cancellation, which is not the case.

They are completing more of their flights and delaying fewer of them. I guess the argument that they are reporting fewer cancellations because they are willing to suffer longer delays could be technically true (the best kind of true) but it misses the forest for the trees.
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:39 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 82):
You can't position a flight if you don't COMPLETE it.

Maybe I am wrong, but did they not in the past change the flight number to a different number and then reposition the flight? Now they just keep the original flight number? In any event, the outcome is the same except maybe the data point.
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:39 pm

Mods can we just ban IPFreely? He provides nothing to these forums but flame bait and lies.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 80):
Touting a metric that says you complete all of your flights rests on the premise that a delay is always better than a cancellation, which is not the case.

Maybe in your opinion. The majority of those passengers asked say they prefer an extended delay to a cancellation.
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
BMI727
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:30 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 82):
Don't forget, that a/c has to get to its destination for positioning at some point.

That's not really relevant.

Completion percentage for flights is one specific metric that has a specific meaning. Like most things what it actually means is not the same was what marketing people want the public to think it means.

The takeaway the marketing types want is "Delta completes 100% of their flights which is always best with respect to the needs of their passengers."

The real message is "Delta completes 100% of their flights."

A delay is better than a cancellation in a lot of cases. A delay was better to meet the needs of the passengers on the next flight of the plane I was on, but it wasn't best to meet my needs. You should be careful putting icing on numbers and thinking they mean something other than what they do.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
MSPNWA
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RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:32 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 50):
You're the one making the assertion, so it should be YOU that provides the facts and stats. Instead, all we get from you, besides your obvious hate for ANYTHING that DL does, is ancedotal evidence, as usual.

The facts and stats have been given to you before. You, like others, simply refuse to accept them. I'll give you the first big thread on this again, one you participated in. You can start by trying to refute the data enilria gave us. Good luck. It's a little tricky to refute the facts from the government. What was going on then is going on today.

DL To End Interline/Tkt Agreement With AA - Part 1 (by FlyASAGuy2005 Sep 10 2015 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting global1 (Reply 54):
So far as delays go, all carriers experience them. Research however has shown that passengers overwhelmingly prefer a delayed flight to a cancelled one.

Provide the research that shows this in the context of extremely long, rolling delays and next-day "delays" that means they will be re-booked anyway. As usual for research, context is everything.

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 77):
That is what I do not understand about those who say DL is just posting long delays instead of cancelling flights. Even if that is the case, more of their flights are on time compared with other airlines. Also, if you are rebooked and didn't have to sit through the 12-18 hr delay, then why does it matter? DL has to take the hit either for the cancellation or the delay. There is no magic way to hide this stuff unless they are outright falsifying reports to the DOT, and I doubt they are because the risk is huge.

Why does it matter? Because the airline is using that misleading practice to enhance business. That's called fraud. It doesn't matter how good DL's operations are (and they are good). They need to tell the whole truth to the consumer.

DL is taking advantage of what the government considers a cancellation, and how they don't distinguish the length of delays to the public. They don't have to hide anything to the government, because very few consumers will find out with the reporting rules of today.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 79):
Enilrila or you have yet to post a single data point that I have seen.

Do you know what data is? It isn't based on your opinion

See the thread linked above, for a start. It was the first time my suspicion was confirmed, thanks to enilria.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 80):
Touting a metric that says you complete all of your flights rests on the premise that a delay is always better than a cancellation, which is not the case.

Correct, especially when you don't actually complete all your flights for the day.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3497
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:44 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 87):
Because the airline is using that misleading practice to enhance business. That's called fraud.

There you go, spewing venom (and nonsense) again.

"Fraud" carries a legal definition; it Delta - or any other airline - were committing fraud, the DOJ would be all over them. I haven't seen any cases filed yet.

Perhaps you can enlighten us... bit with actual facts this time.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
User avatar
exunited
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:48 pm

RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:10 pm

Quoting global1 (Thread starter):
Mainline completion is probably better than that of the other 3 majors combined

By using my minimal math skills what you are saying is the other 3 average less than 33.33% mainline completion rate. Yeah, sure.

I think every time Delta gets new napkins we need a thread espousing their brilliance and bringing the hand and mouth wiping realm to another astoundingly high level nobody else could ever attain.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5355
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:29 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 87):

See the thread linked above, for a start. It was the first time my suspicion was confirmed, thanks to enilria.

and it was crap then and its crap now.

Lets assume Delta does this ~300 times a month (higher than the month in that thread.)
why don't you do the math (if you can) and compare that to DL's mainline flights per month?

Do the math. You are crying and complaining about a rounding error. (hell its not even really a rounding error its so small)

As you have been told, when this becomes COMMON practice it will hurt DL's delay and arrival stats. So far it is a very rare thing.

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 85):

Mods can we just ban IPFreely? He provides nothing to these forums but flame bait and lies.

Also MSPNWA.
 
coolian2
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:34 pm

RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:34 am

You're not a troll because you question DL. When I've had my choice of US carriers I've picked them on purpose. Granted if you've clearly got an issue with them, that's having a go. But let other posters have their say.

That's as bad as me predicting my rugby team would lose a game (I was wrong) and someone decided to conduct a personal war on me over several threads on another forum because I wasn't "loyal".
Q300/ATR72-600/737-200/-300/-400/-700/-800/A320/767-200/-300/757-200/777-300ER/
747-200/-300/-400/ER/A340-300/A380-800/MD-83/-88/CRJ-700/-900
 
toobz
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:33 am

RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:45 am

Coolian...it gets tired. every post about DL he/she rants about DL connection lol ...*sighhhh* it's terrifying how simple he/she is. maybe u haven't been around long enough.. #troll

[Edited 2016-06-12 21:06:53]
 
airzona11
Posts: 1743
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:11 am

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 75):
You fanboys crack me up.

Speaking for funny, someone who doesnt get upgraded on his CRJ flight that is 1 hour delayed. I am not a Delta fan boy, merely a fan of commercial aviation (what this forum is for) and an incredibly well run business.

Their operational excellence is recognized by airlines and industry professionals, worldwide.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5355
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:52 am

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 91):
You're not a troll because you question DL

no one said that.

bringing things that aren't true up in every thread about DL is trolling however.
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:51 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 87):
I'll give you the first big thread on this again, one you participated in.

That particular thread was so far from what this one was about that it doesn't even serve anyone to quote it and my actual participation may have mentioned on-time stats, but not in the same context as the current thread.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 86):

The real message is "Delta completes 100% of their flights."

ACTUALLY, the real message is "Delta completes 100% of their flights for 100 days, so far this year" or did you miss that part?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 86):
Quoting mayor (Reply 82):
Don't forget, that a/c has to get to its destination for positioning at some point.

That's not really relevant.

Completion percentage for flights is one specific metric that has a specific meaning. Like most things what it actually means is not the same was what marketing people want the public to think it means.

Completion = positioning for the next flight. When you say it's not relevant, you don't realize that ALL these things are intertwined and any one affects the other.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
nycbjr
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:45 am

RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:46 pm

I have to say as a customer who flys about 6-8 times a year (not terribly frequent I know), usually flying LGA - STL, this is always a DCI carrier, and I've only had one flight that was delayed, and it was due to tech. Almost always I've arrived in St Louis (or back in NYC) early!

One reason I stick with DL. They manage to make LGA suck less lol

Congrats to DL for this, and that they keep improving things!
 
BMI727
Posts: 11300
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:03 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 95):
Completion = positioning for the next flight. When you say it's not relevant, you don't realize that ALL these things are intertwined and any one affects the other.

Nobody disputes that, but you're dodging the point.

Completion percentage is a metric to help figure how well you do getting passengers where they need to go.

Delta scored 100% on completion percentage, meaning that they are perfect and have no room for improvement.

In my case, Delta did not meet perfection in doing the best job getting me where I needed to be, even with the delay. In that respect, there is room for improvement

There is a disconnect between the metric (and the marketing of the metric) and what the metric is intended to measure. The metric shows perfection, reality shows something less.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

Re: RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:12 pm

BMI727 wrote:
Quoting mayor (Reply 95):Completion = positioning for the next flight. When you say it's not relevant, you don't realize that ALL these things are intertwined and any one affects the other.
Nobody disputes that, but you're dodging the point.

Completion percentage is a metric to help figure how well you do getting passengers where they need to go.

Delta scored 100% on completion percentage, meaning that they are perfect and have no room for improvement.

In my case, Delta did not meet perfection in doing the best job getting me where I needed to be, even with the delay. In that respect, there is room for improvement

There is a disconnect between the metric (and the marketing of the metric) and what the metric is intended to measure. The metric shows perfection, reality shows something less.



If no one disputes that delays, on-time and cancellations are all intertwined (which they are......any one affects the others) then how am I "dodging the point"?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
BMI727
Posts: 11300
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

Re: RE: Delta: 100 Days Of 100%

Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:17 am

mayor wrote:
BMI727 wrote:
Quoting mayor (Reply 95):Completion = positioning for the next flight. When you say it's not relevant, you don't realize that ALL these things are intertwined and any one affects the other.
Nobody disputes that, but you're dodging the point.

Completion percentage is a metric to help figure how well you do getting passengers where they need to go.

Delta scored 100% on completion percentage, meaning that they are perfect and have no room for improvement.

In my case, Delta did not meet perfection in doing the best job getting me where I needed to be, even with the delay. In that respect, there is room for improvement

There is a disconnect between the metric (and the marketing of the metric) and what the metric is intended to measure. The metric shows perfection, reality shows something less.



If no one disputes that delays, on-time and cancellations are all intertwined (which they are......any one affects the others) then how am I "dodging the point"?

You keep on providing a rebuttal to an argument that nobody is making.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?

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