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freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:01 am

FWAERJ wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
Delta is upguaging SBN-ATL flights in the 3rd qtr of 2017.


To mainline or dual class regional jets?


Don't expect mainline at either SBN or FWA anytime soon. SkyWest has MX bases that can handle the CR7 and CR9 at both airports.


Irregardless, Local DGS folks at SBN have been pushing for at least 1 SBN-ATL flight on a B717.
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:39 am

freakyrat wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:
jetskipper wrote:

To mainline or dual class regional jets?


Don't expect mainline at either SBN or FWA anytime soon. SkyWest has MX bases that can handle the CR7 and CR9 at both airports.


Irregardless, Local DGS folks at SBN have been pushing for at least 1 SBN-ATL flight on a B717.


For quite some time, the FWACAA has stated to the airlines that they strongly prefer upgauging flights to dual-class RJs over going to mainline with lower frequency. Their reason is that frequency sells in this market. Say that DL has two morning FWA-ATL flights on SkyWest CR2s and DL goes to one mainline 717 at the time of the earlier flight. But someone wants to connect to a flight at the bank in ATL that used to be supported by the later morning flight. They're not going to wait an extra two and a half hours in the ATL terminal - they can drive to IND or DTW in the same amount of time. That's a lost customer for our local airport. Keep in mind that a good reason why FWA has the 50% passenger share that it does is because it has a surprising balance of frequency and connectivity for a metro of its size. Take one or both away, and you've got a huge reason for business travelers to resume that habit of driving to IND that was so common after 9/11 and during the NW focus city days.

But I do think that in a year or two, AA will go to mainline A319s on DFW and CLT and DL will do mainline on some ATL flights. The reason is simple: FWA traffic is growing to these key hubs, and during the peak times of the day when these flights operate, there's virtually no gate space at FWA. A study has been begun for the final stages of terminal expansion planning at FWA that will bring much-needed new gates, but any expansion probably won't be completed for another 2 to 3 years. Until then, upgauging or adding off-peak frequencies are the only solutions to handle the current growth at FWA. The legacies will do a mix of both with a preference for upgauging, while G4 has the flexibility to do the latter (leisure customers don't care about flight times when it comes to the ULCC model).
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freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:25 am

SBN would actually like frequency over mainline aircraft however the DGS folks at SBN would like to offer mainline to ATL on one of the two morning flights. Their reasoning is that they could offer both Delta Comfort and First Class seats on the flight plus they said that the route is to long to be cramped up in an RJ.
 
IndEagle
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:30 am

atypical wrote:
Well it seems the apocalypse is beginning and hell has frozen over:

...........2016.............2015.............Change
IND.....8,511,959.......7,998,086......6.4%
CLE....8,420,000.......8,100,073......3.9%*
PIT......8,309,754.......8,128,187......2.2%
CVG...6,773,905.......6,316,332......7.2%

* CLE only gave 8.42 million as their traffic numbers



How is it that Pittsburgh a smaller airport has this as a current schedule of for 2017, but Indy has yet to land TATL?
Pit current schedule;
Paris – Delta 7x/week May to Sep........Frankfurt- Condor 2x/wk......Reykjavik-Wow 4x/wk
($9mil in 2009)....................................$500,000 2 year subsidy......$800,000 2 year subsidy
http://townhall.com/columnists/colinmcn ... s-n2259777

Could we match this with LHR in place of CDG?
 
Jshank83
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:04 pm

IndEagle wrote:
atypical wrote:
Well it seems the apocalypse is beginning and hell has frozen over:

...........2016.............2015.............Change
IND.....8,511,959.......7,998,086......6.4%
CLE....8,420,000.......8,100,073......3.9%*
PIT......8,309,754.......8,128,187......2.2%
CVG...6,773,905.......6,316,332......7.2%

* CLE only gave 8.42 million as their traffic numbers



How is it that Pittsburgh a smaller airport has this as a current schedule of for 2017, but Indy has yet to land TATL?
Pit current schedule;
Paris – Delta 7x/week May to Sep........Frankfurt- Condor 2x/wk......Reykjavik-Wow 4x/wk
($9mil in 2009)....................................$500,000 2 year subsidy......$800,000 2 year subsidy
http://townhall.com/columnists/colinmcn ... s-n2259777

Could we match this with LHR in place of CDG?


Some of it I assume has to do with plane size. I don't know if a 757 can make the flight from IND (people on here would know better than me). I know it can't from STL (Which had 14 mil passangers this year and no TATL flight because of the 757 reason also). The Delta flight is on a 757 so they don't need to sell as many seats as you do when you upgauge to a plane that could make the trip. Sometimes in winter it can't even make it to New York depending on winds.

The Reykjavik is on an Airbus 321, I also don't know its range. That said, do you really want your Europe flight to have a stop in Iceland? Their connections aren't any better than any stateside airport. It might be cheaper but it isn't saving you much/if any time or connections, which is most of the point of having a TATL flight anyways.

So, really only the Condor flight is the only one that has a plane that I assume could make the flight distance and isn't make you take a weird layover anyways.
 
cvgComair
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:40 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Some of it I assume has to do with plane size. I don't know if a 757 can make the flight from IND (people on here would know better than me). I know it can't from STL (Which had 14 mil passangers this year and no TATL flight because of the 757 reason also). The Delta flight is on a 757 so they don't need to sell as many seats as you do when you upgauge to a plane that could make the trip. Sometimes in winter it can't even make it to New York depending on winds.

The Reykjavik is on an Airbus 321, I also don't know its range. That said, do you really want your Europe flight to have a stop in Iceland? Their connections aren't any better than any stateside airport. It might be cheaper but it isn't saving you much/if any time or connections, which is most of the point of having a TATL flight anyways.

So, really only the Condor flight is the only one that has a plane that I assume could make the flight distance and isn't make you take a weird layover anyways.


A 757 could make an IND-Europe route. Delta operated muliple TATL flights from CVG on 757's over the years. DL's current CVG-CDG service is on a 767 for more buisness class seats and the extra cargo lift, but a 757 could fly the route (without the cargo of course).
 
IndEagle
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:13 pm

cvgComair wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Some of it I assume has to do with plane size. I don't know if a 757 can make the flight from IND (people on here would know better than me). I know it can't from STL (Which had 14 mil passangers this year and no TATL flight because of the 757 reason also). The Delta flight is on a 757 so they don't need to sell as many seats as you do when you upgauge to a plane that could make the trip. Sometimes in winter it can't even make it to New York depending on winds.

The Reykjavik is on an Airbus 321, I also don't know its range. That said, do you really want your Europe flight to have a stop in Iceland? Their connections aren't any better than any stateside airport. It might be cheaper but it isn't saving you much/if any time or connections, which is most of the point of having a TATL flight anyways.

So, really only the Condor flight is the only one that has a plane that I assume could make the flight distance and isn't make you take a weird layover anyways.


A 757 could make an IND-Europe route. Delta operated muliple TATL flights from CVG on 757's over the years. DL's current CVG-CDG service is on a 767 for more buisness class seats and the extra cargo lift, but a 757 could fly the route (without the cargo of course).


I always assumed that DL wouldn’t run a flight from IND with CVG and DTW being so close? Also our top 2 markets to Europe are London and Frankfurt.

BA is running 787s on their new routes to the USA. They also have 767’s who both have the legs for 6400km flight.

KEF is 4858km from IND. Wow’s a321’s have the legs at 5950km
At 360 daily o/d most of the traffic is not going to LHR or FRA but transferring and KEF could offer a low cost alternative both into Europe from IND and to IND from Europe. The more options we have will both lower the cost through competition and offer more exposure from the greater Indy area.
 
IndEagle
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:21 pm

What would you do with the $5mil 2 year Gov Holcomb is proposing?
Does enough demand exist for a 2x daily to IND from FWA, SBA and EVV on it’s own or as a feeder for TATL flights?
 
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atypical
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:16 pm

IndEagle wrote:
What would you do with the $5mil 2 year Gov Holcomb is proposing?
Does enough demand exist for a 2x daily to IND from FWA, SBA and EVV on it’s own or as a feeder for TATL flights?



IND between EVV, FWA, and SBN gets tried for a while and then dropped. After it is but a distant memory to the ancient ones, a novel idea strikes a new generation that someone should try and connect the Indiana cities that have air service together through Indianapolis. It's the missing piece to the pie. It's brightness and joy. The sun appears after an eternity of darkness. Derrida and Kierkegaard finally make sense and the angels sing. And then... After six months of guaranteed revenue with an average of three persons per flight the ancient ones hear yet again, "Oh, shi...."
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:41 am

atypical wrote:
IndEagle wrote:
What would you do with the $5mil 2 year Gov Holcomb is proposing?
Does enough demand exist for a 2x daily to IND from FWA, SBA and EVV on it’s own or as a feeder for TATL flights?



IND between EVV, FWA, and SBN gets tried for a while and then dropped. After it is but a distant memory to the ancient ones, a novel idea strikes a new generation that someone should try and connect the Indiana cities that have air service together through Indianapolis. It's the missing piece to the pie. It's brightness and joy. The sun appears after an eternity of darkness. Derrida and Kierkegaard finally make sense and the angels sing. And then... After six months of guaranteed revenue with an average of three persons per flight the ancient ones hear yet again, "Oh, shi...."


Are you referring to the short-lived Cape Air intrastate service from a few years back? It only ran IND-EVV and IND-SBN, as FWA opted out. C8 did briefly fly an FWA-IND flight for TZ that was there strictly for connections (it replaced a far more successful MDW flight when WN determined it didn't need C8 at MDW because it didn't mesh with their longtime strategy of feeding on leakage). The FWACAA was only interested in the Cape Air flights if they could do an FWA-EVV flight and nothing else, but Cape Air demanded FWA-IND as well, so the FWACAA wisely declined.

Back when the Cape Air flights operated, Indy to South Bend went through several red-light bottlenecks (in the case of Kokomo, they could add 45 minutes to the trip) and Indy to Evansville had no good way of getting there. Since then, US 31 has gotten the northern Indy, Kokomo, and Plymouth-South Bend bypasses and I-69 from Evansville to Indy is almost done. Fort Wayne to Indy has long been linked via I-69, a 2.5 hour trip.
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atypical
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:48 pm

FWAERJ wrote:
Are you referring to the short-lived Cape Air intrastate service from a few years back? It only ran IND-EVV and IND-SBN, as FWA opted out. C8 did briefly fly an FWA-IND flight for TZ that was there strictly for connections (it replaced a far more successful MDW flight when WN determined it didn't need C8 at MDW because it didn't mesh with their longtime strategy of feeding on leakage). The FWACAA was only interested in the Cape Air flights if they could do an FWA-EVV flight and nothing else, but Cape Air demanded FWA-IND as well, so the FWACAA wisely declined.

Back when the Cape Air flights operated, Indy to South Bend went through several red-light bottlenecks (in the case of Kokomo, they could add 45 minutes to the trip) and Indy to Evansville had no good way of getting there. Since then, US 31 has gotten the northern Indy, Kokomo, and Plymouth-South Bend bypasses and I-69 from Evansville to Indy is almost done. Fort Wayne to Indy has long been linked via I-69, a 2.5 hour trip.


Yes, and others. I recall flying on one of these flights in the early 80's. The tickets were interlined but they failed to tell me the baggage wasn't... My experiences aside, the intrastate Indiana routes were never in demand and have never been successful with the possible exception of Britt. I have lived in South Bend and have family there. Yeah the Kokomo bypass was a pain but it never was so bad that it made or broke a trip to Indy. Flying there was not an option, between airfare and taxi or car rental the expense and inconvenience made it a nonstarter. It didn't save, or saved so little time (getting to and from airport, check-ins, waits, flight times, rental or taxi to and from destination(s) and airport), that beyond expense there was no time saving that worth the additional effort. This is the same for South Bend to Chicago. I have never heard of anyone flying South Bend to Chicago just to go to Chicago. If people go to Chicago for the sake of going to Chicago they drive (and at its worst driving to Indy is a picnic in comparison) or take South Shore. The only way for intrastate flights to work is for connections in Indy and Indy is never going to compete for that business the way hubs can and the flights that EVV, FWA, and SBN already provide.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:28 pm

Looks like things might come full circle in Indiana as Air Wisconsin is moving back to supporting United Express flying out of ORD with 50 CRJ2's. I wonder if they will replace Expressjet flying at SBN and FWA and if there is a possibility of SBN and FWA EWR flying to be upgraded to a Skywest CRJ700 or possibly an E175.
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:04 am

freakyrat wrote:
Looks like things might come full circle in Indiana as Air Wisconsin is moving back to supporting United Express flying out of ORD with 50 CRJ2's. I wonder if they will replace Expressjet flying at SBN and FWA and if there is a possibility of SBN and FWA EWR flying to be upgraded to a Skywest CRJ700 or possibly an E175.


The only ExpressJet flying from FWA is the UA FWA-EWR flight, and Air Wisconsin is not basing aircraft at EWR, nor does SkyWest base the CR7 at EWR - just the E175. Soon, all UA CR7s will be DEN-based, leaving open the door for FWA-DEN.

SkyWest is already set up to handle larger RJs at FWA in addition to the CR2 - the CR7 and CR9 for sure, but I'm not sure about the E-Jets. I doubt it because there aren't many UA routes that they could be used on at FWA, all the SkyWest DL E-Jets are SEA-based, they don't fly E-Jets for AA, and there's no AS at FWA.
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freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:49 am

United is adding DEN-COU so they could easily do DEN-SBN and DEN-FWA with CRJ7's. Average passenger loads from F9's short lived operation at SBN was 118 so a daily flight with a CRJ7 is warranted. UA also wants to beef up connections at DEN. SBN still has a few ExpressJet flights to ORD so those will probably get transferred back to Air Wisconsin. The rest will be operated by Skywest. I guess the third quarter Delta upgrades on SBN-ATL will go to Pinnacle as they operate the CRJ7's and CRJ9's for Delta during ND football weekends. We shall see how this all shakes out.
 
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cleared2land
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:32 pm

SBN has posted their 2016 final numbers: http://flysbn.com/wp-content/uploads/20 ... c-2016.pdf
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: PaLrt 16

Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:54 pm

cleared2land wrote:
SBN has posted their 2016 final numbers: http://flysbn.com/wp-content/uploads/20 ... c-2016.pdf

Counting and equal amount of deplanements SBN easily served over 600,000 air passengers this past year. South Shore was down mainly do to construction and loss of 9 train operations.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:08 pm

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FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:48 pm

The needs of the various airports are interesting.

IND's need, of course, is a flight to LHR and/or FRA. That's the worst-kept secret in the state's aviation industry. Unless you try to ship yourself via FedEx, you can't go to Europe nonstop from Indy. For domestic service, I could see G4 adding the glaringly absent AZA flight from IND and WN making SAN year-round. Given the intense AS/DL rivalry going on, I could see DL offering a link to SEA to tap into the SkyMiles base and AS retaliating with PDX. And I wouldn't be surprised if NK finally decides to try IND now that the airport's operating costs are competitive with others in the region (for a while, they were among the highest). Dark horse: a flight to Asia on JL to NRT or HU to PEK using Dreamliners, but I don't see either until after LHR or FRA is proven.

For SBN, the big goal has long been to get AA to come back with flights to DFW and CLT - the former could even get some Zimmer Biomet folks to switch from FWA, as they have a huge AUS presence and FWA-DFW-AUS is easier than SBN-ORD-AUS. DEN on UA is also a good bet given F9's track record and the SkyWest MX base. As soon as G4 goes to Mexico, it's a given that we'll see CUN, and I see VPS because many people as far west as Porter County vacation in that area. I could even see F9 coming back, but to cities other than DEN. These flights, plus allowing Uber and Lyft to operate from SBN (the airport only allows local rustbucket taxis that many complain about), will make SBN stronger. Dark horse: B6 to BOS because of the traffic stimulation to that market.

FWA: PHL failed miserably because the only full-fare ticket purchasers were Lincoln Financial and Comcast. However, EWR is doing very well, proving that it wasn't a northeast flight that was the problem, but the hub. EWR could benefit from an afternoon flight for international connections, and I could see AA making another push into the northeast with DCA if they can scrounge up a slot. Much like SBN, UA could also add DEN from FWA, and FWA has a SkyWest MX base as well. The existing G4 service could be bolstered by LAS for sure and potentially SAV. Dark horse: NK because their current CEO knew FWA well when he was at FL. The only thing that stopped FL from launching FWA, days before the announcement, was the WN merger deal and domestic new route freeze.

EVV: This airport was horrendously underserved under the Bob Working days, but has seen major improvements in passenger numbers. The obvious first bets for new routes are some connections of the dots for G4, and I bet PIE and PGD will come first. This will probably coincide with a withdrawal from OWB because now that passengers have a choice to SFB, they are overwhelmingly choosing EVV. A northeast route should also be a priority for EVV, and I could see EWR working like it is for SBN and FWA. But if AA couldn't make PHL work from FWA with the business ties on both ends, they won't make EVV (or SBN) work to PHL. Dark horse: anything that can improve connectivity to Asia given the Toyota presence in the area.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:13 pm

FWAERJ wrote:
The needs of the various airports are interesting.

IND's need, of course, is a flight to LHR and/or FRA. That's the worst-kept secret in the state's aviation industry. Unless you try to ship yourself via FedEx, you can't go to Europe nonstop from Indy. For domestic service, I could see G4 adding the glaringly absent AZA flight from IND and WN making SAN year-round. Given the intense AS/DL rivalry going on, I could see DL offering a link to SEA to tap into the SkyMiles base and AS retaliating with PDX. And I wouldn't be surprised if NK finally decides to try IND now that the airport's operating costs are competitive with others in the region (for a while, they were among the highest). Dark horse: a flight to Asia on JL to NRT or HU to PEK using Dreamliners, but I don't see either until after LHR or FRA is proven.

For SBN, the big goal has long been to get AA to come back with flights to DFW and CLT - the former could even get some Zimmer Biomet folks to switch from FWA, as they have a huge AUS presence and FWA-DFW-AUS is easier than SBN-ORD-AUS. DEN on UA is also a good bet given F9's track record and the SkyWest MX base. As soon as G4 goes to Mexico, it's a given that we'll see CUN, and I see VPS because many people as far west as Porter County vacation in that area. I could even see F9 coming back, but to cities other than DEN. These flights, plus allowing Uber and Lyft to operate from SBN (the airport only allows local rustbucket taxis that many complain about), will make SBN stronger. Dark horse: B6 to BOS because of the traffic stimulation to that market.

FWA: PHL failed miserably because the only full-fare ticket purchasers were Lincoln Financial and Comcast. However, EWR is doing very well, proving that it wasn't a northeast flight that was the problem, but the hub. EWR could benefit from an afternoon flight for international connections, and I could see AA making another push into the northeast with DCA if they can scrounge up a slot. Much like SBN, UA could also add DEN from FWA, and FWA has a SkyWest MX base as well. The existing G4 service could be bolstered by LAS for sure and potentially SAV. Dark horse: NK because their current CEO knew FWA well when he was at FL. The only thing that stopped FL from launching FWA, days before the announcement, was the WN merger deal and domestic new route freeze.

EVV: This airport was horrendously underserved under the Bob Working days, but has seen major improvements in passenger numbers. The obvious first bets for new routes are some connections of the dots for G4, and I bet PIE and PGD will come first. This will probably coincide with a withdrawal from OWB because now that passengers have a choice to SFB, they are overwhelmingly choosing EVV. A northeast route should also be a priority for EVV, and I could see EWR working like it is for SBN and FWA. But if AA couldn't make PHL work from FWA with the business ties on both ends, they won't make EVV (or SBN) work to PHL. Dark horse: anything that can improve connectivity to Asia given the Toyota presence in the area.


Good analysis, you clearly know a lot about aviation in Indiana, but I have to disagree a bit. I think DL will start BOS before B6, but if B6 starts SBN-BOS they will probably add SBN-FLL as well. Outside, of IND I think the rest could benefit from more routes to the northeast, DEN, and DFW. I think WN or maybe F9 with DEN could start some of these routes. I really don't see anywhere NK can add flights to IND, all of NKs operating bases are already served and have plenty of frequencies to IND, unless they are planning to add flights to ACY or PIT, but those are highly unlikely. I think AS will hit first with PDX-IND and maybe even SAN-IND year round, instead of DL SEA-IND which will come later. DL has softened their presence in IND, and I believe they have not run their seasonal SLC-IND non-stop for a few years so I think they are content to send their Asian traffic from IND through MSP instead of SLC or SEA unless AS provokes them. IND-AZA is unlikely due to the fact that IND already has a lot of capacity to Phoenix, up to 3x/day on WN and up to 3x/day on AA, plus G4 has had little to no growth at AZA and has only added a few routes from AZA in the last 1-2 years. Anyways, it is a shame that G4 has swarmed Indiana and the midwest. Adding all these routes looked good in the short term when no other carrier wanted them, but now G4 is part of the reason why WN, F9, NK, and B6 don't have service to Indiana, outside of IND with WN and F9.
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freakyrat
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o

Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:53 pm

FWAERJ wrote:
The needs of the various airports are interesting.

For SBN, the big goal has long been to get AA to come back with flights to DFW and CLT - the former could even get some Zimmer Biomet folks to switch from FWA, as they have a huge AUS presence and FWA-DFW-AUS is easier than SBN-ORD-AUS. DEN on UA is also a good bet given F9's track record and the SkyWest MX base. As soon as G4 goes to Mexico, it's a given that we'll see CUN, and I see VPS because many people as far west as Porter County vacation in that area. I could even see F9 coming back, but to cities other than DEN. These flights, plus allowing Uber and Lyft to operate from SBN (the airport only allows local rustbucket taxis that many complain about), will make SBN stronger. Dark horse: B6 to BOS because of the traffic stimulation to that market.


AUS is SBN's Number three business market. SBN enplanments were up another 5% in January. Long term construction on the Toll Road and I94 is probably causing a lot of folks to start their trips in SBN rather than MDW. Delta is also matching fares out of SBN in markets that they compete with WN out of MDW.

DEN on United is a strong possibility as Oscar Munoz is strengthening UA's present in DEN and they just added DEN-COU regioanl jet service. F9's track record however would demand mainline aircraft to operate the route as they were averaging 118 pax in and out and United's A319 hold 120 pax in a mixed class config. Otherwise they would have to operate 2 round trips a day with regional aircraft E175/CRJ

One G4 destination you overlooked out of SBN is one that they are getting numerous requests for and that is MYR so the airport is working with G4 to possibly bring seasonal service. If G4 wasn't around F9 would be operating a lot of their Florida routes out of SBN.

The New York market is so strong out of SBN that Delta is mulling over starting SBN-JFK to connect with their international services.

On another note SBN also has jetway extensions in a hangar that would allow them to modify the jetways on gates A5-A8 to accomodate mainline Airbus A320 aircraft and still comply with the ADA requirements on slope. This would essentially take the half-height jetways and make them 3/4 height to match gates A3 and A9.

So to sum up: The routes that SBN is working on are DEN, DFW, CLT, and MYR. On existing carriers DEN is the airports number one priority now. International Cancun, also Nassau (Airport was approached by an unamed carrier about this one). Regional jet flights to Toronto are also possible.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:07 pm

Here is another minor hiccup for United today. United Express's flight 4238 operated by Expressjet SBN-EWR which is so important to United that it is rarely cancelled to the point United will ferry an aircraft into SBN if the previous nights flight from Newark is ever cancelled has now taken a 7 hour plus maintenance delay at SBN. Expressjet has ferried an aircraft in from Houston and passengers should be on their way to Newark shortly. If this was a CRJ vs an ERJ the Skywest maintenace base in South Bend could have probably fixed the aircraft.
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:53 pm

And to reiterate some news from a few weeks back, AS will be serving SFO-IND among several new transcons from SFO. The article I read said this will likely come at the expense of some SFO N-S flights due to gate restrictions.
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:16 pm

SBN has been working for sometime to bring American back with service to DFW to no avail. Thinking outside the box I just wonder if Alaska Airlines using their subsidiary to fly 2 E175 flights a day to either DAL or DFW would work.
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:31 pm

freakyrat wrote:
SBN has been working for sometime to bring American back with service to DFW to no avail. Thinking outside the box I just wonder if Alaska Airlines using their subsidiary to fly 2 E175 flights a day to either DAL or DFW would work.


I can't see it, here's why:

DAL is very unlikely since AS only has two gates and there are other markets that could sustain higher passenger loads. DAL also would not provide any connections worth speaking. For that to happen WN would need to start interlining.

DFW also has poor connections for AS unless the connections go to AA and in that case it is probably more profitable for AA to provide the flights than AS.

For AS to start service to smaller cities in the Midwest they need a hub somewhere east of the Rockies.
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:32 pm

freakyrat wrote:
SBN has been working for sometime to bring American back with service to DFW to no avail. Thinking outside the box I just wonder if Alaska Airlines using their subsidiary to fly 2 E175 flights a day to either DAL or DFW would work.


I like the outside the box thinking, but I think it is highly unlikely, but if it were to happen it would be DAL. SBN would first need to get flights to SEA, which is unlikely unless they decide to make SEA a super-hub. Second, at least thirty other cities would get service to DAL before SBN. Third there is no need to worry about service to Dallas, FWA and EVV both have service on AA, along with plenty of other markets that are comparable or smaller in size to SBN. Has anyone considered WN, DAL-SBN. WN is short on planes now, but when they add 40 planes to their fleet either next year or the year after that, they could expand service from DAL.
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:32 am

Midwestindy wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
SBN has been working for sometime to bring American back with service to DFW to no avail. Thinking outside the box I just wonder if Alaska Airlines using their subsidiary to fly 2 E175 flights a day to either DAL or DFW would work.


I like the outside the box thinking, but I think it is highly unlikely, but if it were to happen it would be DAL. SBN would first need to get flights to SEA, which is unlikely unless they decide to make SEA a super-hub. Second, at least thirty other cities would get service to DAL before SBN. Third there is no need to worry about service to Dallas, FWA and EVV both have service on AA, along with plenty of other markets that are comparable or smaller in size to SBN. Has anyone considered WN, DAL-SBN. WN is short on planes now, but when they add 40 planes to their fleet either next year or the year after that, they could expand service from DAL.


I pose the question because the E175 is an ideal aircraft for that service and the DFW area is SBN's number 2 business market after the NYC market which is covered with United service to EWR and possible future Delta service to JFK. They are still talking to AA and pressing them pretty hard. Right now they are also talking to UA about restoring flights to DEN. F9 outside of two winter months did well on the route but their internal turmoil and the dismantling of their hub at DEN and going to an ULCC made the flights not viable. But for United still having a connecting hub in DEN would give the SBN folks an alternate hub besides ORD and satisfy the banking and medical firms in Warsaw, IN that have needs to go to DEN and were big users of F9's service.
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:41 am

What i do expect is movement by Delta at SBN this year. Larger capacity jets to ATL by the 3rd Qtr. besides the ND Football flying. a new nonstop RJ flight to JFK for international connections. Delta has already talked to DGS folks at SBN about starting that in the future. Possible Delta RJ flight from SBN-BOS in the future as it is starting to look like a new O/D developing market.

SBN-DEN on UA will probably be coming as UA is adding regional service out of DEN.

If SBN can get their area market share up wich looks like is starting to happen AA may come back with RJ flights to DFW and CLT and possibly DCA to siphon off the traffic to the BOS and NYC shuttle flights.
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:30 am

freakyrat wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
SBN has been working for sometime to bring American back with service to DFW to no avail. Thinking outside the box I just wonder if Alaska Airlines using their subsidiary to fly 2 E175 flights a day to either DAL or DFW would work.


I like the outside the box thinking, but I think it is highly unlikely, but if it were to happen it would be DAL. SBN would first need to get flights to SEA, which is unlikely unless they decide to make SEA a super-hub. Second, at least thirty other cities would get service to DAL before SBN. Third there is no need to worry about service to Dallas, FWA and EVV both have service on AA, along with plenty of other markets that are comparable or smaller in size to SBN. Has anyone considered WN, DAL-SBN. WN is short on planes now, but when they add 40 planes to their fleet either next year or the year after that, they could expand service from DAL.


I pose the question because the E175 is an ideal aircraft for that service and the DFW area is SBN's number 2 business market after the NYC market which is covered with United service to EWR and possible future Delta service to JFK. They are still talking to AA and pressing them pretty hard. Right now they are also talking to UA about restoring flights to DEN. F9 outside of two winter months did well on the route but their internal turmoil and the dismantling of their hub at DEN and going to an ULCC made the flights not viable. But for United still having a connecting hub in DEN would give the SBN folks an alternate hub besides ORD and satisfy the banking and medical firms in Warsaw, IN that have needs to go to DEN and were big users of F9's service.


Did SBN offer incentives for AA, because if not I think the new incentives proposed by Gov. Holcomb could be helpful in getting those flights out west, I agree the E175 would be an ideal aircraft.
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:40 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

I like the outside the box thinking, but I think it is highly unlikely, but if it were to happen it would be DAL. SBN would first need to get flights to SEA, which is unlikely unless they decide to make SEA a super-hub. Second, at least thirty other cities would get service to DAL before SBN. Third there is no need to worry about service to Dallas, FWA and EVV both have service on AA, along with plenty of other markets that are comparable or smaller in size to SBN. Has anyone considered WN, DAL-SBN. WN is short on planes now, but when they add 40 planes to their fleet either next year or the year after that, they could expand service from DAL.


I pose the question because the E175 is an ideal aircraft for that service and the DFW area is SBN's number 2 business market after the NYC market which is covered with United service to EWR and possible future Delta service to JFK. They are still talking to AA and pressing them pretty hard. Right now they are also talking to UA about restoring flights to DEN. F9 outside of two winter months did well on the route but their internal turmoil and the dismantling of their hub at DEN and going to an ULCC made the flights not viable. But for United still having a connecting hub in DEN would give the SBN folks an alternate hub besides ORD and satisfy the banking and medical firms in Warsaw, IN that have needs to go to DEN and were big users of F9's service.


Did SBN offer incentives for AA, because if not I think the new incentives proposed by Gov. Holcomb could be helpful in getting those flights out west, I agree the E175 would be an ideal aircraft.


SBN was hoping for a SCASD grant for 2 ERJ-145s per day to DFW - $500,000 with $1.5 million in matching local funds. This plan wasn't approved by the feds, but I'm not sure if the local funds remain available. SBN's traditionally been strong with incentives - remember that they were the first airport in Indiana with G4 service, which is now at every airport in the state with regularly scheduled commercial air service.

Also, I seem to remember that before the US merger, SBN wanted DFW service from AA while AA management wanted to start with SBN-ORD (which the SJCAA didn't want).

But I agree that should the incentives be approved, we will see SBN-DFW/CLT. Ditto for UA launching DEN from both SBN and FWA. And if the MAX 8 has the range for LGW, I could even see Norwegian giving SBN a try.
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:35 pm

FWAERJ wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
freakyrat wrote:

I pose the question because the E175 is an ideal aircraft for that service and the DFW area is SBN's number 2 business market after the NYC market which is covered with United service to EWR and possible future Delta service to JFK. They are still talking to AA and pressing them pretty hard. Right now they are also talking to UA about restoring flights to DEN. F9 outside of two winter months did well on the route but their internal turmoil and the dismantling of their hub at DEN and going to an ULCC made the flights not viable. But for United still having a connecting hub in DEN would give the SBN folks an alternate hub besides ORD and satisfy the banking and medical firms in Warsaw, IN that have needs to go to DEN and were big users of F9's service.


Did SBN offer incentives for AA, because if not I think the new incentives proposed by Gov. Holcomb could be helpful in getting those flights out west, I agree the E175 would be an ideal aircraft.


SBN was hoping for a SCASD grant for 2 ERJ-145s per day to DFW - $500,000 with $1.5 million in matching local funds. This plan wasn't approved by the feds, but I'm not sure if the local funds remain available. SBN's traditionally been strong with incentives - remember that they were the first airport in Indiana with G4 service, which is now at every airport in the state with regularly scheduled commercial air service.

Also, I seem to remember that before the US merger, SBN wanted DFW service from AA while AA management wanted to start with SBN-ORD (which the SJCAA didn't want).

But I agree that should the incentives be approved, we will see SBN-DFW/CLT. Ditto for UA launching DEN from both SBN and FWA. And if the MAX 8 has the range for LGW, I could even see Norwegian giving SBN a try.


No I don't see Norwegian trying that until at least IND and FWA have service which could mean at least 10-15 for SBN.
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:28 am

Midwestindy wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Did SBN offer incentives for AA, because if not I think the new incentives proposed by Gov. Holcomb could be helpful in getting those flights out west, I agree the E175 would be an ideal aircraft.


SBN was hoping for a SCASD grant for 2 ERJ-145s per day to DFW - $500,000 with $1.5 million in matching local funds. This plan wasn't approved by the feds, but I'm not sure if the local funds remain available. SBN's traditionally been strong with incentives - remember that they were the first airport in Indiana with G4 service, which is now at every airport in the state with regularly scheduled commercial air service.

Also, I seem to remember that before the US merger, SBN wanted DFW service from AA while AA management wanted to start with SBN-ORD (which the SJCAA didn't want).

But I agree that should the incentives be approved, we will see SBN-DFW/CLT. Ditto for UA launching DEN from both SBN and FWA. And if the MAX 8 has the range for LGW, I could even see Norwegian giving SBN a try.


No I don't see Norwegian trying that until at least IND and FWA have service which could mean at least 10-15 for SBN.


With the MAX, Norwegian's strategy will be to enter unserved US-UK markets. SBN fits the bill better than IND or FWA for two big reasons:
1) FIS just months away. IND has it, but a proper FIS at FWA is years away (sadly).
2) This one is huge: Same-airport access to downtown Chicago in 2.5 hours, with one hour being shaved off in a few years, via South Shore Line trains. Norwegian will be able to use SBN as an ORD or MDW alternate - a much bigger opportunity than the IND or FWA MSAs.

In fact, I think a big reason why Norwegian hasn't cracked the AA/BA JV profit sanctuary of Chicago is because they're waiting for the FIS at SBN to open, and it's behind schedule. I could see Norwegian doing MKE as well, but like SBN, it will have to wait for suitable facilities that are currently under construction.
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:57 am

The only thing holding up the FIS at SBN is the federal government is dragging it's feet in giving the final approvals. The facility has been finished for months. I think it would be an interesting proposition for Norweigian and it could be possible.
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:24 am

FWAERJ wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:

SBN was hoping for a SCASD grant for 2 ERJ-145s per day to DFW - $500,000 with $1.5 million in matching local funds. This plan wasn't approved by the feds, but I'm not sure if the local funds remain available. SBN's traditionally been strong with incentives - remember that they were the first airport in Indiana with G4 service, which is now at every airport in the state with regularly scheduled commercial air service.

Also, I seem to remember that before the US merger, SBN wanted DFW service from AA while AA management wanted to start with SBN-ORD (which the SJCAA didn't want).

But I agree that should the incentives be approved, we will see SBN-DFW/CLT. Ditto for UA launching DEN from both SBN and FWA. And if the MAX 8 has the range for LGW, I could even see Norwegian giving SBN a try.


No I don't see Norwegian trying that until at least IND and FWA have service which could mean at least 10-15 for SBN.


With the MAX, Norwegian's strategy will be to enter unserved US-UK markets. SBN fits the bill better than IND or FWA for two big reasons:
1) FIS just months away. IND has it, but a proper FIS at FWA is years away (sadly).
2) This one is huge: Same-airport access to downtown Chicago in 2.5 hours, with one hour being shaved off in a few years, via South Shore Line trains. Norwegian will be able to use SBN as an ORD or MDW alternate - a much bigger opportunity than the IND or FWA MSAs.

In fact, I think a big reason why Norwegian hasn't cracked the AA/BA JV profit sanctuary of Chicago is because they're waiting for the FIS at SBN to open, and it's behind schedule. I could see Norwegian doing MKE as well, but like SBN, it will have to wait for suitable facilities that are currently under construction.


RFD makes more sense if you are using the Chicago angle to lure flights, it is closer than SBN and I believe it already has a FIS so if Norwegian would to be using an alternate airport in place of ORD, it would be RFD, then it would be MKE next because there is much more local demand at MKE than at SBN, it is closer to Chicago and it already has a FIS, so I don't see where SBN would fall in place. A 2.5 hour drive seems a bit long for most european tourists anyway.
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:09 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

No I don't see Norwegian trying that until at least IND and FWA have service which could mean at least 10-15 for SBN.


With the MAX, Norwegian's strategy will be to enter unserved US-UK markets. SBN fits the bill better than IND or FWA for two big reasons:
1) FIS just months away. IND has it, but a proper FIS at FWA is years away (sadly).
2) This one is huge: Same-airport access to downtown Chicago in 2.5 hours, with one hour being shaved off in a few years, via South Shore Line trains. Norwegian will be able to use SBN as an ORD or MDW alternate - a much bigger opportunity than the IND or FWA MSAs.

In fact, I think a big reason why Norwegian hasn't cracked the AA/BA JV profit sanctuary of Chicago is because they're waiting for the FIS at SBN to open, and it's behind schedule. I could see Norwegian doing MKE as well, but like SBN, it will have to wait for suitable facilities that are currently under construction.


RFD makes more sense if you are using the Chicago angle to lure flights, it is closer than SBN and I believe it already has a FIS so if Norwegian would to be using an alternate airport in place of ORD, it would be RFD, then it would be MKE next because there is much more local demand at MKE than at SBN, it is closer to Chicago and it already has a FIS, so I don't see where SBN would fall in place. A 2.5 hour drive seems a bit long for most european tourists anyway.


Even though I grew up in SBN. RFD makes more sense in it's closeness to Chicago. The FIS at SBN (when it opens) was designed for mostly corporate GA and as far as airlines go ,flights to Cancun and the Bahamas right now. They are also talking about the occasional charter to Dublin.

As far as the 2.5 hr drive or South Shore trip to Chicago goes, with the ungoing Toll Road construction along with some on I294 passengers are electing to start their trips out of SBN which is good news for the airport. Enplanemnts were up 6% last year and are already up another 5% this year over last. Delta experimented with a CRJ900 last summer on the afternoon MSP flight and it was well received and they also did the same for DTW with the same results. ATL flights are constantly full with no room for non-revs. Delta is planning on introducing 2-class jets on these ATL flights by the 3rd qtr. Just do not know which ones, most likely CRJ900's.

If the traffic at SBN keeps up AA will probably jump in. Right now the airport is working with United to DEN and for a leisure route, seasonal service to MYR on Allegiant.

Getting back to Chicago. The South Shore is already in the prelim stages of moving their terminal to the west side of the airport, moving the trains out of downtown Michigan City and double tracking all of the line which should shave about a hour off of the trip to Chicago.
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:38 pm

freakyrat wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:

With the MAX, Norwegian's strategy will be to enter unserved US-UK markets. SBN fits the bill better than IND or FWA for two big reasons:
1) FIS just months away. IND has it, but a proper FIS at FWA is years away (sadly).
2) This one is huge: Same-airport access to downtown Chicago in 2.5 hours, with one hour being shaved off in a few years, via South Shore Line trains. Norwegian will be able to use SBN as an ORD or MDW alternate - a much bigger opportunity than the IND or FWA MSAs.

In fact, I think a big reason why Norwegian hasn't cracked the AA/BA JV profit sanctuary of Chicago is because they're waiting for the FIS at SBN to open, and it's behind schedule. I could see Norwegian doing MKE as well, but like SBN, it will have to wait for suitable facilities that are currently under construction.


RFD makes more sense if you are using the Chicago angle to lure flights, it is closer than SBN and I believe it already has a FIS so if Norwegian would to be using an alternate airport in place of ORD, it would be RFD, then it would be MKE next because there is much more local demand at MKE than at SBN, it is closer to Chicago and it already has a FIS, so I don't see where SBN would fall in place. A 2.5 hour drive seems a bit long for most european tourists anyway.


Even though I grew up in SBN. RFD makes more sense in it's closeness to Chicago. The FIS at SBN (when it opens) was designed for mostly corporate GA and as far as airlines go ,flights to Cancun and the Bahamas right now. They are also talking about the occasional charter to Dublin.

As far as the 2.5 hr drive or South Shore trip to Chicago goes, with the ungoing Toll Road construction along with some on I294 passengers are electing to start their trips out of SBN which is good news for the airport. Enplanemnts were up 6% last year and are already up another 5% this year over last. Delta experimented with a CRJ900 last summer on the afternoon MSP flight and it was well received and they also did the same for DTW with the same results. ATL flights are constantly full with no room for non-revs. Delta is planning on introducing 2-class jets on these ATL flights by the 3rd qtr. Just do not know which ones, most likely CRJ900's.

If the traffic at SBN keeps up AA will probably jump in. Right now the airport is working with United to DEN and for a leisure route, seasonal service to MYR on Allegiant.

Getting back to Chicago. The South Shore is already in the prelim stages of moving their terminal to the west side of the airport, moving the trains out of downtown Michigan City and double tracking all of the line which should shave about a hour off of the trip to Chicago.


I wouldn't go as far as saying that the FIS at SBN was designed for mostly corporate GA. The facility is equipped with 4 booths with a combined capacity of at least 200 commercial passengers per hour. As far as CBP staffing goes there will be one full-time customs officer on duty at a time, When there are commercial flights arriving additional staff will be brought in as needed form area airport (GRR, IND, AZO etc). As soon as SBN cracks the 10,000 international passenger mark per year they will be eligible for additional full-time staffing.

The GA side of the FIS is in the same building but it is a totally separate facility.
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:47 pm

You can a glimpse of the FIS at SBN from the mezzanine floor. It's actually pretty nice. I do not know why Customs is stalling on the final paperwork though cause I'm sure SBN would like to work on International flights to Cancun by next season.
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:23 am

FWAERJ wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:


With the MAX, Norwegian's strategy will be to enter unserved US-UK markets. SBN fits the bill better than IND or FWA for two big reasons:
1) FIS just months away. IND has it, but a proper FIS at FWA is years away (sadly).
2) This one is huge: Same-airport access to downtown Chicago in 2.5 hours, with one hour being shaved off in a few years, via South Shore Line trains. Norwegian will be able to use SBN as an ORD or MDW alternate - a much bigger opportunity than the IND or FWA MSAs.

In fact, I think a big reason why Norwegian hasn't cracked the AA/BA JV profit sanctuary of Chicago is because they're waiting for the FIS at SBN to open, and it's behind schedule. I could see Norwegian doing MKE as well, but like SBN, it will have to wait for suitable facilities that are currently under construction.


The B737 Max 8 from Norweigian Air Shuttle would requiire a refueling stop in Keflavik enroute to Dublin, or London Gatwick. The aircraft has a max range of 3,619 NM and Reklavik is 2926 NM from SBN. Distance between SBN and LGW is 3915 NM as the crow flies.

SBN Tribune has an article today about the double tracking of the South Shore between Michigan City and Gary, Elevating hyje track in downtown Michigan City nd the moving of the SBN station to the westside of the airport to be completed by 2020. That should make the trip between SBN and downtown Chicago 90 minutes.
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Sat May 06, 2017 4:07 pm

Distance between SBN-REK 2543 NM, SBN-DUB 3145 NM, SBN-LGW 3405 NM, SBN-LHR 3387 NM

MAX RANGE Norwegian Airbus A321LR 4000 NM
Norwegian Boeing 737 MAX8 3515 NM

Boeing 737 Max8 probably would not have fuel reserves for the route to DUB/LGW/LHR. The Airbus A321LR maybe can do the route to DUB/LGW/LHR with reserves. Both aircraft could make all routes with a REK fuel stop.
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Sun May 14, 2017 7:04 pm

United is bringing back the Afternoon SBN-EWR flight for the Notre Dame fall semester and football season.
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon May 15, 2017 1:27 pm

In other SBN news, the General Aviation US Customs facility (GAF) opened last month. The FIS is just waiting final approval from the USDA and it should open shortly.
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon May 15, 2017 3:45 pm

freakyrat wrote:
In other SBN news, the General Aviation US Customs facility (GAF) opened last month. The FIS is just waiting final approval from the USDA and it should open shortly.

what routes do you expect to open
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon May 15, 2017 4:59 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
In other SBN news, the General Aviation US Customs facility (GAF) opened last month. The FIS is just waiting final approval from the USDA and it should open shortly.

what routes do you expect to open


Once they get the FIS open they will be talking to airlines about twice weekly service to Cancun. Also the airport was approached by an airline about providing flights to the Bahamas. Limited European service may also be possible from charters. With train service via the South Shore improvements possibly cutting the time down on a trip to downtown Chicago, a European ULCC airline known for using secondary airports near metro areas might be giving the airport a look when they obtain their A321LR aircraft in 2018 or 2019. Rumors going around about that but the airport is definitely working on Cancun and strangely if Allegiant doesn't pick up on that which right now that is the plan I can see that being picked up by F9 and possibly NK. It is just my own feeling but I believe SY is the airline that wants to offer flights to the Bahamas. Many Possibilities. 2018 and 2019 should be interesting
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon May 15, 2017 7:37 pm

freakyrat wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
In other SBN news, the General Aviation US Customs facility (GAF) opened last month. The FIS is just waiting final approval from the USDA and it should open shortly.

what routes do you expect to open


Once they get the FIS open they will be talking to airlines about twice weekly service to Cancun. Also the airport was approached by an airline about providing flights to the Bahamas. Limited European service may also be possible from charters. With train service via the South Shore improvements possibly cutting the time down on a trip to downtown Chicago, a European ULCC airline known for using secondary airports near metro areas might be giving the airport a look when they obtain their A321LR aircraft in 2018 or 2019. Rumors going around about that but the airport is definitely working on Cancun and strangely if Allegiant doesn't pick up on that which right now that is the plan I can see that being picked up by F9 and possibly NK. It is just my own feeling but I believe SY is the airline that wants to offer flights to the Bahamas. Many Possibilities. 2018 and 2019 should be interesting


Allegiant isn't going to be doing much growth over the next 12-18 months. The goal right now is to connect several dots and successfully transition into an all-Airbus fleet without MX issues. Almost all of G4's Airbus deliveries will be used to replace MD-80s until every Mad Dog is gone. G4's goal is for only SFB and LAS to have the MD-80 by yearend, with LAS as the last airport to have MD-80 service come 2018. So I don't see G4 doing international scheduled flights until the Airbus transition is over, but I wouldn't rule out them doing SBN-CUN for a charter operator as they do in other cities.

And while SBN may have to look for an airline other than G4 to provide CUN service, I could see G4 killing OWB and adding EVV-PIE/PGD for those limited route additions now that EVV is outperforming OWB. For IND, AZA for sure but that may be about it. FWA probably won't see the return of LAS or the launch of SAV until G4 has an all-Airbus fleet, though FWA is a consistently strong station for G4, so who knows.
B721/722/731/732/733/735/73G/738/739/742/752/753/762/763, A300/319/320, DC-9/10, MD-82/83/88/90, ERJ-140/145, CRJ-200/700, Q200, SF340, AS350
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon May 15, 2017 8:10 pm

FWAERJ wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
what routes do you expect to open


Allegiant isn't going to be doing much growth over the next 12-18 months. The goal right now is to connect several dots and successfully transition into an all-Airbus fleet without MX issues. Almost all of G4's Airbus deliveries will be used to replace MD-80s until every Mad Dog is gone. G4's goal is for only SFB and LAS to have the MD-80 by yearend, with LAS as the last airport to have MD-80 service come 2018. So I don't see G4 doing international scheduled flights until the Airbus transition is over, but I wouldn't rule out them doing SBN-CUN for a charter operator as they do in other cities.

And while SBN may have to look for an airline other than G4 to provide CUN service, I could see G4 killing OWB and adding EVV-PIE/PGD for those limited route additions now that EVV is outperforming OWB. For IND, AZA for sure but that may be about it. FWA probably won't see the return of LAS or the launch of SAV until G4 has an all-Airbus fleet, though FWA is a consistently strong station for G4, so who knows.


I can actually see Frontier doing SBN-CUN with Sun Country doing SBN-MYNN. Sun Country runs a bunch of Travel Agency sponsored gambling charters out of SBN so they have the experience to run the Bahamas flights and both airlines have established
ground handling etc in SBN. The next SBN route for G4 is going to be seasonal service to MYR like FWA as there is a big demand for it and it is being worked on. The only Mad Dog flights out of SBN on G4 are to LAS and SFB. Even PIE has been transitioning to an A320 and PGD is soilid A320 across the Allegiant system and IWA flights are A319's. SBN-LAS route will be probably be one of the first LAS flights to transition to an A320 as it is too long and gas guzzling for an MD80.

As a long shot maybe Spirit might jump into SBN-CUN. It's going to be interesting for the FIS and I do think that by 2018 or 19 Norwegian should have their Airbus A321LR with 4000 nm range which is enough with reserves to do SBN-EIDW without a fuel stop.
 
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atypical
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Tue May 16, 2017 12:04 am

freakyrat wrote:
I can actually see Frontier doing SBN-CUN with Sun Country doing SBN-MYNN. Sun Country runs a bunch of Travel Agency sponsored gambling charters out of SBN so they have the experience to run the Bahamas flights and both airlines have established
ground handling etc in SBN. The next SBN route for G4 is going to be seasonal service to MYR like FWA as there is a big demand for it and it is being worked on. The only Mad Dog flights out of SBN on G4 are to LAS and SFB. Even PIE has been transitioning to an A320 and PGD is soilid A320 across the Allegiant system and IWA flights are A319's. SBN-LAS route will be probably be one of the first LAS flights to transition to an A320 as it is too long and gas guzzling for an MD80.

As a long shot maybe Spirit might jump into SBN-CUN. It's going to be interesting for the FIS and I do think that by 2018 or 19 Norwegian should have their Airbus A321LR with 4000 nm range which is enough with reserves to do SBN-EIDW without a fuel stop.


Everything is going to depend on staging. SBN service will include service from another US city the same day or it will take an existing international flight and utilize that equipment for a SBN run. Who ever does this will need to have room on the schedule to get to SBN and back for the turn to another city. Since this won't be daily it will need to be matched with other service on a limited schedule or face the possibility the off days the AC sits in the international city unused. Either SBN will get at least two new cities by this airline or there is an airline already operating out of the international city with a model that can support the additional RT to SBN. I do not think SBN will be an introductory city for this kind of model so I think Sun Country is the best bet followed by G4. I don't think SBN would pursue any facility changes based on anything proposed by F9. F9 burned SBN and they have been chaotic with routes under current leadership.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Tue May 16, 2017 1:23 am

atypical wrote:
freakyrat wrote:

Everything is going to depend on staging. SBN service will include service from another US city the same day or it will take an existing international flight and utilize that equipment for a SBN run. Who ever does this will need to have room on the schedule to get to SBN and back for the turn to another city. Since this won't be daily it will need to be matched with other service on a limited schedule or face the possibility the off days the AC sits in the international city unused. Either SBN will get at least two new cities by this airline or there is an airline already operating out of the international city with a model that can support the additional RT to SBN. I do not think SBN will be an introductory city for this kind of model so I think Sun Country is the best bet followed by G4. I don't think SBN would pursue any facility changes based on anything proposed by F9. F9 burned SBN and they have been chaotic with routes under current leadership.


I like your comment on how F9 burned SBN and they did. Their loads were good and even without any subsidy money they flew over 20,000+ in and out and took in gross fares of 4-5 million dollars not including any baggage fees etc.

The Cancun service is proposed for twice a week. My bet is on Sun Country because they can originate and terminate in MSP and have the shortest ferry distance for their aircraft. They already do SBN casino junkets to Laughlin, NV etc. For a foreign carrier doing this my bet would be on Interjet or Volaris.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Tue May 23, 2017 6:57 pm

SBN has a new travel agency in place at the airport. No word on when the FIS will open.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Tue May 23, 2017 7:05 pm

For those suggesting that Norwegian could serve SBN as an alternate airport for ORD from their bases at Dublin and Shannon, they will not need the FIS at SBN as they will have in place U.S. Customs preclearance facilities at both Irish airports.
http://atwonline.com/security/norwegian ... eclearance
 
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cleared2land
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Wed May 24, 2017 1:00 pm

freakyrat wrote:
SBN has a new travel agency in place at the airport. No word on when the FIS will open.


I don't think the travel agency will last long. From viewing the agency's web site everything seems to be very cookie cutter with their business. I think the airport was very desperate to fill a vacant hole in the terminal.

As far as the customs facility goes it is very strange that the SBN GAF is allegedly open but there was no press release by the airport nor any mention of the facility being open on the CBP website. Leave it to our government to allow an airport to construct a customs facility and then it sits for 6 months with basically no use at all while government agencies drag their feet.
 
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cleared2land
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Wed May 24, 2017 1:08 pm

SBN is opening a pet relief area post-security today:

http://flysbn.com/2017/05/23/south-bend ... et-refuge/

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