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freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:56 am

jetskipper wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
DY/D8 and WW aren't very likely for FWA or SBN in the foreseeable future IMO.


I would love the novalty of a LCC flying to Europe from SBN or FWA, I can't ever see it coming to fruition. There are large cities such as Milwaukee and Columbus that don't have Europe service, nor do medium sized cites in the imidiate area such as Dayton, Grand Rapids and Madison or Cancun for that matter. SBN and FWA can't support mainline service domestically, there is no way they are getting Europe flights, I think even vacation hot spots such as Cancun and Punta Cana would be a long shot.


I would say it is a way off yet for a LCC to Europe from either SBN or FWA but is not out of the realm of possibility. It is true that ND has operations in Dublin. Rumor has it that they are talking to a carrier about this. The only reason DY was mentioned is because they receive a range capable aircraft that can be used for such a route in a few years. The SBN FIS would probably be used for MMUN and MYNN flights first. The reason MMUN flights are a possibility is because the airport has hard demographic data that shows how many yearly Cancun flights are taken by people in a select radius of SBN and it's quite a lot. Allegiant even asked SBN officials for an FIS and expressed interest in these flights. Now where you said that SBN and FWA cannot support domestic mainline that just isn't that true. In the case of SBN they can support a morning mainline Atlanta flight.

I was in SBN this past week and I saw something that I have never seen before. Several of the new electronic high def billboards in prominent places in town have very catchy ads for Allegiant. The one I saw at Ironwood and Lincolnway East had some ads for the LAS flights and casinos etc.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:49 pm

FWAERJ wrote:
[quote="Midwestindy]

I'd much rather see FWA secure flights to DEN, LAX, WAS, FLL, PHL, e.t.c before the focus is turned towards INT'L service.[/quote]

DEN is only a matter of time with the OO MX base and high local demand. Either a CR7 or E175 would work, but the E175 would have room for skis in the belly and a more comfortable ride that is superior to even a WN 737.

LAX could work one of two ways: a OO E175 for UA/DL or a G4 Airbus. Probably the former because business travel to the area is strong.

DCA has the best potential for DC from FWA, even with slots at DCA. AA is so strong on both ends, FWA sees significant travel there, and DCA is the favorite airport here.

FLL was tried by G4. Didn’t work because locals prefer the Gulf Coast of Florida and Orlando theme parks. For those reasons, VPS is more likely.

PHL was tried by AA. Ate up half of the revenue guarantee, and CR2s were 56% full even with Lincoln Financial, Comcast, and Wells Fargo buying seats every weekday. Won’t return for those reasons.[/quote]


SBN is working at restoring DEN. If you check F9's new schedules for next spring, the only two cities they did not restore theior previous partial week service to Denver were BMI and SBN. All other previous cities will return. I do not get why they pulled out of SBN outside of them going to an ULCC because they kept service at CID to DEN with the same exact load factors. It probably had something to do with yields but I really doubt that considering they grossed over 4 mill out of SBN not including subsidy money.

When the former Piedmont served SBN with a hub at DAY, they operated an afternoon B737-400 flight that went from SBN to LAX with a stop in DAY and it was always full and the majority of the pax were going to LAX. That was a long time ago and I wonder if the market is still there. SBN's primary business markes now are NYC, DFW, IAH, AUS/SAT and BOS. Top leisure markets Orlando, Punta Gorda, Las Vegas, PHX area, and Tampa/St. Pete. An emerging market with lots of requests for flights is MYR.

As far as connecting hubs go, Delta does the best on their Atlanta flights, with MSP possibly ahead of DTW. DEN was a popular connecting hub when F9 offered service and still can work for United over much delayed ORD. They do well on their EWR flights, especially the afternoon one which is popular with Notre Dame students.
 
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museraty
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:55 pm

I think we should consider making the Purdue airport the international airport of Indiana. Why you may be asking. Because it is good. The real international airport is too far away. One time my dad was going to the airport and got lost on the way their since it is so far away. Because of that he never came back. I only saw him before he left. Also it is good for business. When planes go out, money comes in, which in turn generates revenue for the entire world. Many major planes came to the airport before such as Indiana Airways and Midway Connection. The airlines went bankrupt because people stopped flying to West Lafayette. I pass this building everyday I go to Cornerstone (my special school). Sometimes we go in and my mom pays the security guard for a quick tour. It's super safe! However the tour is usually short and he pats me down before I can go in, and again before I go out. He's super friendly too since he holds my hand the entire way through the terminal. It is very clean in there and outside! This business proposition will make a lot of money and add new business opportunities to West Lafayette I think we should consider.
 
SmithAir747
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:23 pm

What is the largest size passenger plane that can be handled at the FWA terminal? Is the terminal (and its gates) too small for a TATL narrowbody or widebody, and what is the maximum aircraft door sill height and aircraft size for the jetways? Is a FIS still in future plans for the terminal? Flying in and out of FWA so often, I only ever saw RJs and MD-90-sized (and A320-sized) planes there.

SmithAir747
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FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:00 am

SmithAir747 wrote:
What is the largest size passenger plane that can be handled at the FWA terminal? Is the terminal (and its gates) too small for a TATL narrowbody or widebody, and what is the maximum aircraft door sill height and aircraft size for the jetways? Is a FIS still in future plans for the terminal? Flying in and out of FWA so often, I only ever saw RJs and MD-90-sized (and A320-sized) planes there.

SmithAir747


The maximum for gates 5 through 8 is a 752, which G4 occasionally sent in from AZA during Cubs spring training in Mesa. DC-9s, 732s, and F100s were common in the days of mainline when the last renovation was completed, hence the capability for a 752.

Gate 4 can handle up to an A320, as G4 occasionally parks an Airbus at this gate. This gate had a jetway added three years ago prior to the refurbishment of the 5-8 jetways, along with a realignment to handle the wingspan of larger aircraft.

Gates 1 through 3, which do not have jetways though 2 has a covered walkway, top out at a CRJ-900 or E175 size jet. When FWA sees weather diversions, one can see E-Jets here.
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freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:27 pm

While you are at it, Here are some specs on SBN. Gates 3 and 9 can handle sill heights up to a B757. Gates 5 and 6 ramp spaces were realigned at Delta's request to allow greatwer wingtip clearances. Gates 5 thru 8 can handle up to a B737. Because of the ramp slope Gate 8 can handle in a pinch Airbus A320 aircraft. Gate 8 as far as sill heights is about 6 or so inches out of ADA requirements on jetbridge slope for the A320. Next years ramp reconstruction and remarking etc. should make all gates ADA compliant when serving Airbus A320 aircraft.

Other Gates are Gate 1, 2, and 4. Gates 1 is strictly for RJ's with no jetbridge. Gates 2 and 4 had their jetbrifges removed with the new concourse opening and are not used. I suppose they could have theiir bridges reinstalled and they would then be able to serve Airbus A320 sized aircraft in limited ramp space.

The airport has extra jetbridge pieces that would modify all the bridges to be in ADA compliance for higher sill heights but the ramp reconstruction should alleviate that.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:17 pm

http://www.aviationpros.com/news/123742 ... stinations

Myrtle Beach is working on service to South Bend among other cities. I know South Bend is working with Allegiant on this.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:47 pm

freakyrat wrote:
http://www.aviationpros.com/news/12374248/myrtle-beach-airport-eyes-19-new-direct-flight-destinations

Myrtle Beach is working on service to South Bend among other cities. I know South Bend is working with Allegiant on this.


Interesting I wonder if JAX, SAV, and FLL are in the works as well...
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FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:49 pm

freakyrat wrote:
http://www.aviationpros.com/news/12374248/myrtle-beach-airport-eyes-19-new-direct-flight-destinations

Myrtle Beach is working on service to South Bend among other cities. I know South Bend is working with Allegiant on this.


G4 has long been successful on FWA-MYR and, more recently, was the first airline in eons to make IND-MYR work. I have no doubt in my mind that they can make SBN-MYR work and that the services will be able to coexist peacefully.

I could see G4 adding FWA-LAS and maybe even FWA-LAX in the new late winter route additions. Then both FWA-SAV and SBN-SAV for summer adds at the same time as SBN-MYR.

Also of note: FWA is now an all-Airbus station as SFB has gone to new-build A320s exclusively and PIE became an all-Airbus station. PGD and AZA have been all-Airbus for a while now. I suspect that much of this has to do with the new IND MX base that is also all-Airbus, and the fact that Airbus mechanical issues can now be solved simply by sending a mechanic and the right part up from IND - a 2 hour 15 minute drive. They wouldn't be able to do this if FWA-SFB remained an MD-80 route, and I suspect the new IND MX base is a big reason why FWA-LAS hasn't been announced yet - they need to start adding A319s and A320s to LAS in quantities where FWA can always get an Airbus first.
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FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:17 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Interesting I wonder if JAX, SAV, and FLL are in the works as well...


As I've said before, G4 tried FWA-FLL with disastrous results. They tried SBN-FLL at the same time as FWA with equally disastrous results. When FLL had congestion problems, G4 had to cut routes, and FWA and SBN were some of the first to go because of their poor performance (80% LFs when G4 wants at least 90%).

Further complicating things is the fact that northern Indiana strongly prefers Florida's Gulf Coast to the Atlantic Coast. It's also why two of the first four post-Direct Air PGD routes were FWA and SBN.

In other words, G4 will bring back FWA/SBN-FLL the day DL rehubs MEM or UA rehubs CLE.
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freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:52 am

The other cities in the area that MYR was looking at was GRR/PIA/BMI.

When Piedmont was flying they had an afternoon flight from SBN-LAX via DAY that did quite well. Now as far as G4 goes all SBN flights are now on Airbuses except LAS and G4 cannot wait to get that one an Airbus also as the cost to operate is much lower than the mad dog and the reliabilty is much better. As I recall G4 never operated SBN-FLL.
 
COSPN
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:25 am

Purdue airport is owned by the university not the city or county .so no budget for expansion .. it's also on a hill so can't be expanded easily ... IND and ORD are both close by .. no need to re-invent the wheel :)
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:57 pm

The Michigan City Municipal Airport is planning a Runway Extension Project so that they can land corporate jets. They are planning to extend the runway to 5,000 feet which would entail putting part of it on a bridge over US20. This would be the first airport in Indiana with the runway on a bridge.

http://www.emichigancity.com/cityhall/d ... /plans.pdf
 
bwohlgemuth
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:03 pm

FWA could handle a L-1011...it did back in the ATA days for trips to LAS.

It was hilarious at baggage claim...
 
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atypical
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:06 am

FWAERJ wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Interesting I wonder if JAX, SAV, and FLL are in the works as well...


As I've said before, G4 tried FWA-FLL with disastrous results. They tried SBN-FLL at the same time as FWA with equally disastrous results. When FLL had congestion problems, G4 had to cut routes, and FWA and SBN were some of the first to go because of their poor performance (80% LFs when G4 wants at least 90%).

Further complicating things is the fact that northern Indiana strongly prefers Florida's Gulf Coast to the Atlantic Coast. It's also why two of the first four post-Direct Air PGD routes were FWA and SBN.

In other words, G4 will bring back FWA/SBN-FLL the day DL rehubs MEM or UA rehubs CLE.


You are very right. The imbalance between the coasts for traveler preference is huge. Two examples:

In Largo off of Alt 19 there was the "Michiana Motel" and recently First Source Bank opened up a branch in Sarasota. Prior to that Lafayette was the southernmost branch. This all goes back years when the east coast of Florida was destination of choice from those living on the eastern seaboard while the west coast of Florida was the destination of choice for Midwesterners. It's not quite that polarized now but there still very deep connections.
 
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atypical
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:56 am

COSPN wrote:
Purdue airport is owned by the university not the city or county .so no budget for expansion .. it's also on a hill so can't be expanded easily ... IND and ORD are both close by .. no need to re-invent the wheel :)


You have that upside down. Cities and counties run with incredibly tight budgets compared to a major university. Purdue has incredible finances it can tap with many fewer restrictions.

The university has no interest in running an airport that needs to dedicate any significant space to commercial operations. Expanding the airport would only be driven by commercial demands because the airport currently is exactly what is needed for the curriculum. The university could use airline service but it is not looking at anything more than the essentials. I do not think the airport would be interested in a carrier like G4 unless that was the only option.

The airport is getting hemmed in pretty well and the remaining land it could develop would be a challenge. The biggest kicker here is that the university can only use that land for an airport. In the 80's there was a gravel operation on the south airport border that was willing to rebuild a new airport for the university anywhere the university wanted in exchange for the current airport. The university was very interested but they could not legally make a deal. The original airport was donated to the university with restrictions that the land could only be used as an airport. If the university decides not to use it as an airport it loses the land. Additionally the lands that were added to the airport come under the same restrictions.

If the area does someday require an airport to service the community commercially rather than academically there are excellent sites (major road access, level land, little or no population and buildings) on the east side of Lafayette that can be purchased at a very reasonable price
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:40 am

atypical wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Interesting I wonder if JAX, SAV, and FLL are in the works as well...


As I've said before, G4 tried FWA-FLL with disastrous results. They tried SBN-FLL at the same time as FWA with equally disastrous results. When FLL had congestion problems, G4 had to cut routes, and FWA and SBN were some of the first to go because of their poor performance (80% LFs when G4 wants at least 90%).

Further complicating things is the fact that northern Indiana strongly prefers Florida's Gulf Coast to the Atlantic Coast. It's also why two of the first four post-Direct Air PGD routes were FWA and SBN.

In other words, G4 will bring back FWA/SBN-FLL the day DL rehubs MEM or UA rehubs CLE.


You are very right. The imbalance between the coasts for traveler preference is huge. Two examples:

In Largo off of Alt 19 there was the "Michiana Motel" and recently First Source Bank opened up a branch in Sarasota. Prior to that Lafayette was the southernmost branch. This all goes back years when the east coast of Florida was destination of choice from those living on the eastern seaboard while the west coast of Florida was the destination of choice for Midwesterners. It's not quite that polarized now but there still very deep connections.


I will also add that before G4 added SBN/FWA-PGD and when FL was still around, 10% of FL's IND-bound pax were actually going to or from Fort Wayne - enough that FL was this close to opening an FWA station and the only thing that stopped them was the WN deal. The two FL IND routes that got the most Fort Wayne pax? IND-RSW and IND-SRQ. After the merger, FWA used these numbers to convince G4 to make FWA-PGD one of the first four routes added after G4 based aircraft at PGD. (SBN was one of the other four.)
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freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:52 pm

bwohlgemuth wrote:
FWA could handle a L-1011...it did back in the ATA days for trips to LAS.

It was hilarious at baggage claim...


SBN also did a few Sun Country DC10 charters to LAS. It must have been fun to extend the old C12 jetbridge out to that jet.
 
jetskipper
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:55 pm

I remember HUF had a seasonal spring break charter flown fly a Rich International L-1011 in 1998. No jetway, no belt loader and only one security line staffed by the same people who worked check-in.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:48 pm

Looking at the Delta Airlines schedule for January and February of 2018 I noticed that all Delta Connection flying out of both SBN and FWA has been transferred from Skywest to Delta wholly owned subsidiary Endeavor Air. The question is how this will affect the Skywest maintenance bases at both SBN and FWA.
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:16 pm

freakyrat wrote:
Looking at the Delta Airlines schedule for January and February of 2018 I noticed that all Delta Connection flying out of both SBN and FWA has been transferred from Skywest to Delta wholly owned subsidiary Endeavor Air. The question is how this will affect the Skywest maintenance bases at both SBN and FWA.


Shouldn't affect SkyWest much at FWA. AA FWA-ORD and UA FWA-ORD are SkyWest flights, and I wouldn't be surprised if FWA-DFW goes from Mesa to SkyWest now that some Eagle flying at DFW is operated by them.

Wouldn't be surprised if some of this is to prepare SkyWest FWA mechanics for E-Jets, which SkyWest is a huge operator of now. 9E picking up the DL flying for two slow months is a good way to retrain.
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flyboy80
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:58 pm

Ive heard DL IND-MCO going mainline daily for part of the winter, havent looked up the schedules though...
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:16 pm

FWAERJ wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
Looking at the Delta Airlines schedule for January and February of 2018 I noticed that all Delta Connection flying out of both SBN and FWA has been transferred from Skywest to Delta wholly owned subsidiary Endeavor Air. The question is how this will affect the Skywest maintenance bases at both SBN and FWA.


Shouldn't affect SkyWest much at FWA. AA FWA-ORD and UA FWA-ORD are SkyWest flights, and I wouldn't be surprised if FWA-DFW goes from Mesa to SkyWest now that some Eagle flying at DFW is operated by them.

Wouldn't be surprised if some of this is to prepare SkyWest FWA mechanics for E-Jets, which SkyWest is a huge operator of now. 9E picking up the DL flying for two slow months is a good way to retrain.


Delta schedules beyond February have not been released yet.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:23 pm

FWAERJ wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
Looking at the Delta Airlines schedule for January and February of 2018 I noticed that all Delta Connection flying out of both SBN and FWA has been transferred from Skywest to Delta wholly owned subsidiary Endeavor Air. The question is how this will affect the Skywest maintenance bases at both SBN and FWA.


Shouldn't affect SkyWest much at FWA. AA FWA-ORD and UA FWA-ORD are SkyWest flights, and I wouldn't be surprised if FWA-DFW goes from Mesa to SkyWest now that some Eagle flying at DFW is operated by them.

Wouldn't be surprised if some of this is to prepare SkyWest FWA mechanics for E-Jets, which SkyWest is a huge operator of now. 9E picking up the DL flying for two slow months is a good way to retrain.


United schedules to ORD out of FWA are still all Skywest. SBN is mostly Skywest but in March only one flight is Skywest the rest are ExpressJet RJ145's owned by Skywest.
 
stlgph
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:19 pm

flyboy80 wrote:
Ive heard DL IND-MCO going mainline daily for part of the winter, havent looked up the schedules though...


The 717 makes an appearance.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:17 pm

Heard that United’s FWA-EWR flight is not achieving the load factors that they need. They are also having problems with cancellations on the evening return flight.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:47 pm

freakyrat wrote:
Heard that United’s FWA-EWR flight is not achieving the load factors that they need. They are also having problems with cancellations on the evening return flight.


LFs are pretty bad, and the avg fare isn't that high either
Jan-FWA-EWR-48.8%
Feb-FWA-EWR-46.9%
March-FWA-EWR-54.4%
April-FWA-EWR-44.9%
May-FWA-EWR-52.8%
June-FWA-EWR-62%
July-FWA-EWR-50.4%

The EWR-FWA segment has better LFs

One interesting thing to note is that a large segment (25%+) of the FWA-NYC market is going to DL sending pax at a higher avg fare through DTW.
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FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:38 am

Midwestindy wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
Heard that United’s FWA-EWR flight is not achieving the load factors that they need. They are also having problems with cancellations on the evening return flight.


LFs are pretty bad, and the avg fare isn't that high either
Jan-FWA-EWR-48.8%
Feb-FWA-EWR-46.9%
March-FWA-EWR-54.4%
April-FWA-EWR-44.9%
May-FWA-EWR-52.8%
June-FWA-EWR-62%
July-FWA-EWR-50.4%

The EWR-FWA segment has better LFs

One interesting thing to note is that a large segment (25%+) of the FWA-NYC market is going to DL sending pax at a higher avg fare through DTW.


Part of this is because FWA travelers strongly prefer LGA to EWR. I love being a cheerleader for FWA, but the simple fact that pax will add an extra two hours to their trip just to use LGA when EWR is just as fast or faster in most cases makes me think that DL needs to try a nonstop FWA-LGA, especially given SkyWest at FWA.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:04 am

FWAERJ wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
Heard that United’s FWA-EWR flight is not achieving the load factors that they need. They are also having problems with cancellations on the evening return flight.


LFs are pretty bad, and the avg fare isn't that high either
Jan-FWA-EWR-48.8%
Feb-FWA-EWR-46.9%
March-FWA-EWR-54.4%
April-FWA-EWR-44.9%
May-FWA-EWR-52.8%
June-FWA-EWR-62%
July-FWA-EWR-50.4%

The EWR-FWA segment has better LFs

One interesting thing to note is that a large segment (25%+) of the FWA-NYC market is going to DL sending pax at a higher avg fare through DTW.


Part of this is because FWA travelers strongly prefer LGA to EWR. I love being a cheerleader for FWA, but the simple fact that pax will add an extra two hours to their trip just to use LGA when EWR is just as fast or faster in most cases makes me think that DL needs to try a nonstop FWA-LGA, especially given SkyWest at FWA.


That may be true, but even then DL is still capturing 20% of the FWA-EWR market charging $50 more on FWA-DTW-EWR alone
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FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:49 am

Midwestindy wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

LFs are pretty bad, and the avg fare isn't that high either
Jan-FWA-EWR-48.8%
Feb-FWA-EWR-46.9%
March-FWA-EWR-54.4%
April-FWA-EWR-44.9%
May-FWA-EWR-52.8%
June-FWA-EWR-62%
July-FWA-EWR-50.4%

The EWR-FWA segment has better LFs

One interesting thing to note is that a large segment (25%+) of the FWA-NYC market is going to DL sending pax at a higher avg fare through DTW.


Part of this is because FWA travelers strongly prefer LGA to EWR. I love being a cheerleader for FWA, but the simple fact that pax will add an extra two hours to their trip just to use LGA when EWR is just as fast or faster in most cases makes me think that DL needs to try a nonstop FWA-LGA, especially given SkyWest at FWA.


That may be true, but even then DL is still capturing 20% of the FWA-EWR market charging $50 more on FWA-DTW-EWR alone


DL has traditionally been the strongest legacy at FWA, dating back even before deregulation. This may explain why DL can charge a premium for a flight that adds 2 hours compared to UA's option.

If the EWR bleeding continues, UA should switch their second FWA hub to DEN, where the only alternative (DFW) is too far south for many of the connections that DEN can provide. And unlike EWR, they can send planes to the SkyWest FWA MX base.
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freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:08 am

I was just discussing this with local media as I'm in Fort Wayne tonight for a concert and they said United needs a 70% LF to make it on this flight.
They are evaluating it and are really close to making a decision on whether to continue it.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:12 am

SBN LF for the EWR flights average 80% or better. There Is just lots of business and college traffic between the NYC area and SBN.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:14 am

My DFW flight into FWA only had about 3 empty seats on a 76 seat CRJ900 so those flights on Eagle seem to be doing well.
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:37 pm

freakyrat wrote:
My DFW flight into FWA only had about 3 empty seats on a 76 seat CRJ900 so those flights on Eagle seem to be doing well.


FWA-DFW gets a lot of traffic from Zimmer Biomet employees connecting to AUS, where Zimmer Biomet has a massive presence that has only gotten bigger since the LDR acquisition. The Avis counter at FWA actually has a sign welcoming Zimmer Biomet customers. And I'm sure the F cabin has a lot of paid F pax because of them.

For those that don't know what Zimmer Biomet is, they're an orthopedics manufacturer based in nearby Warsaw. They're second only to DePuy Synthes, a Johnson & Johnson company, in the world. Zimmer Biomet has 40% of the knee and 32% of the hip market on a global basis, so we ain't talking low-yield leisure travel.
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SmithAir747
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:15 pm

FWAERJ wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
For those that don't know what Zimmer Biomet is, they're an orthopedics manufacturer based in nearby Warsaw. They're second only to DePuy Synthes, a Johnson & Johnson company, in the world. Zimmer Biomet has 40% of the knee and 32% of the hip market on a global basis, so we ain't talking low-yield leisure travel.


Zimmer-Biomet has also made craniofacial surgical implants (I have some of their products in my face, by the way).

SmithAir747
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made... (Psalm 139:14)
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:28 pm

FWAERJ wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
Heard that United’s FWA-EWR flight is not achieving the load factors that they need. They are also having problems with cancellations on the evening return flight.


LFs are pretty bad, and the avg fare isn't that high either
Jan-FWA-EWR-48.8%
Feb-FWA-EWR-46.9%
March-FWA-EWR-54.4%
April-FWA-EWR-44.9%
May-FWA-EWR-52.8%
June-FWA-EWR-62%
July-FWA-EWR-50.4%

The EWR-FWA segment has better LFs

One interesting thing to note is that a large segment (25%+) of the FWA-NYC market is going to DL sending pax at a higher avg fare through DTW.


Part of this is because FWA travelers strongly prefer LGA to EWR. I love being a cheerleader for FWA, but the simple fact that pax will add an extra two hours to their trip just to use LGA when EWR is just as fast or faster in most cases makes me think that DL needs to try a nonstop FWA-LGA, especially given SkyWest at FWA.


SkyWest doesn’t do LGA/JFK for delta with the CRJ. Any 50 seat flying from FWA or SBN to LGA would probably be done with 9E CR2s
From my cold, dead hands
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:04 pm

Delta has had a 5yr old open RFP with the DGS folks at SBN for servicing a daily JFK flight but nothing yet has come of it. 9e moved a bunch of their 50 seaters out of the NYC area to ATL. I think that if they would operate a SBN-JFK or LGA flight they would wait and do it on their own metal (C-Series).
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:30 am

With the rumors of G4 announcing more routes soon, what do people think?

IND is a given for new cities because of the MX base, and given the similar nature of the stations, we should look to CVG for potential cities. BWI, PVD, and EWR make sense for summer, and LAX would add a ULCC option to the basin. Longer-term, I could see CUN, MBJ, and PUJ added between when international reservations and scheduling capabilities are ready and the first snowfall in Indy.

SBN, G4's original Indiana station, will probably end up with seasonal MYR. As has been mentioned here, CUN and NAS are likely, but the rate-limiting factor is no longer an FIS: it's international reservation and scheduling capabilities. When G4 has that and lake-effect snow hits South Bend, watch them be some of the first small-market G4 international scheduled routes.

FWA? Gotta be LAS for sure. The timing of LAS going all-Airbus coincides perfectly with when such a route would launch, and FWA-LAS couldn't return until the Mad Dogs started getting phased out of LAS due to fuel burn. SAV could also work, but I suspect resuming LAS is far higher priority for both sides. CUN and MBJ? Not until the terminal is expanded to have an FIS.

EVV could be interesting. It's an SFB-only station, but that doesn't mean that they can't try PGD or PIE. Of course, one wildcard is G4's service to SDF that is far closer to EVV than IND is to FWA, but EVV seems to be holding its own in general. I'd be more worried about OWB losing their only non-EAS service. Like FWA, no FIS. Unlike FWA, no plans or even a US Customs office.
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freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:26 am

When i was in FWA a few weeks ago I talked to some of gthe OP's people that said that FWA would like to extend the upper floor over the rest of the building.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:36 am

One airlines employees overloaded and broke the incineration facilites at SBN. I do not know if they got things fixed by now or not. Maybe they have. The only holdup is getting USDA approval to conduct international flights. Once all approvals are in place they will put out feelers to airlines for CUN and NAS flights. G4's systems are presently not geared for such operation but it's coming with their new OPS center etc. Seasonal SBN-MYR will be coming as it is a top priority for both airports. G4 cannot wait to get the Busses in Vegas because the Mad Dogs even on the SBN route are gas hogs and eat into profits even with Load Factors around 94%.
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:40 am

freakyrat wrote:
When i was in FWA a few weeks ago I talked to some of gthe OP's people that said that FWA would like to extend the upper floor over the rest of the building.


You may be on to something. If you look under the FWA meeting minutes, it looks like one meeting was held at Elevatus Architecture (one of the largest firms in the city) instead of the Airport Authority offices. My hunch is that Elevatus is working on an expansion plan for the terminal.

I don't know whether it will be simply a second floor concourse extension or a dual-level landside portion, though I wouldn't bet on the latter because the landside terminal's roof has been completely replaced over the last several years. Even then, there's room to add more ticket counter space and a Baggage Claim C by expanding onto the former FWACAA employee parking lot and modifying the taxi/shuttle/Uber/Lyft dropoff/pickup point. The concourse extension, however, is probably a given with every gate full at peak times. That expansion could either go eastward (though relocating the physical plant would be required) or westward (onto the former FBO pad).
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Tan Flyr
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:14 pm

DL has traditionally been the strongest legacy at FWA, dating back even before deregulation. This may explain why DL can charge a premium for a flight that adds 2 hours compared to UA's option.


With all due respect FWAERJ, on the surface I would have to disagree..I lived there in the 70's and into the early 80's..Prior to April 1980, I think UA had a much larger operation than DL..I recall most years UA to ORD was a 4 flight mix of 727 and 737, with some schedules haveing a 72S in them. Occasionally there was a schedule with 5 flights. CLE was3 flights, also a varying mix of 737,727,and 72S. Den was generally a 727 deal. I recall DL being about half D9S and balance 72S, with 2-3 flights to DTW, all the ATL service had to stop in IND or SDF.and there was a nonstop to TPA and FLL..seasonally some years, year round others.

I think UA might have carried a few more pax than DL did in those days, no dis-respect to Dl, and I think the Dl manager was Roger Myers..a great guy.


One other...Talking about largest Aircraft...Grueninger travel used to do those LAS charters in the 70's..always with special charter UA DC-8S..that was fun to watch unload also! There might have been a few HNL charters also, since FWA had a 10k ft rwy, take off with a full load was no issue.
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:45 pm

bwohlgemuth wrote:
FWA could handle a L-1011...it did back in the ATA days for trips to LAS.

It was hilarious at baggage claim...
More often it was a DC10. I parked a few on gate 6 when there were only 2 jetways. :old:

AA was working one of those Lost Wages charters and instead of bulk-loading, LAS put all the bags in containers. No one had the equipment for that. They had to borrow our belt loader to even reach the cargo doors. It was very amusing, watching them run around trying to figure something out. They even tried to use a fire axe as a can opener to get to the bags. :spin:
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:55 pm

Tan Flyr wrote:
DL has traditionally been the strongest legacy at FWA, dating back even before deregulation. This may explain why DL can charge a premium for a flight that adds 2 hours compared to UA's option.


With all due respect FWAERJ, on the surface I would have to disagree..I lived there in the 70's and into the early 80's..Prior to April 1980, I think UA had a much larger operation than DL..I recall most years UA to ORD was a 4 flight mix of 727 and 737, with some schedules haveing a 72S in them. Occasionally there was a schedule with 5 flights. CLE was3 flights, also a varying mix of 737,727,and 72S. Den was generally a 727 deal. I recall DL being about half D9S and balance 72S, with 2-3 flights to DTW, all the ATL service had to stop in IND or SDF.and there was a nonstop to TPA and FLL..seasonally some years, year round others.

I think UA might have carried a few more pax than DL did in those days, no dis-respect to Dl, and I think the Dl manager was Roger Myers..a great guy.


One other...Talking about largest Aircraft...Grueninger travel used to do those LAS charters in the 70's..always with special charter UA DC-8S..that was fun to watch unload also! There might have been a few HNL charters also, since FWA had a 10k ft rwy, take off with a full load was no issue.


Don't forget that up to the mid 70s UA also had a cargo flight stop in FWA. It was either a short DC8 or 720. I remember being with my dad when he went out to load it later at night. Memory is fuzzy but I think it went to EWR. Until Roger Ferris cut UA off at the knees by cancelling all short-haul flying, ie. ORD and CLE, UA was bigger. When UA went DEN only, DL became the largest carrier, and I don't think anyone took it after that. AA may have given them a run for the money with 3 727 to ORD in the early 90s.

Grueninger also chartered DC10s to the Bahamas on occasion along with day trips to Lost Wages. As I recall the CLE flights were all 737, but again I wasn't very old back then.

Yes, Roger Myers was the long-time station manager for DL. He was also involved with the museum displays upstairs. I don't recall non-stops to anywhere but TOL or ATL. They continued on to those cities as the same flight. (again, I'm going on a fuzzy memory on DL ops)
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
Tan Flyr
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:05 am

exFWAOONW..pretty good memory..I was in my late teens and 20's those years..NO UA 720's..long gone..The only DC8's I recall were the charters and an occasional tech stop on CLE- LAX runs when CLE had runway construction and range was limited out of there..no issues on that at FWA with 10K ft of Rwy. (It was a short period of time and even some 72S headed to the west coast had to stop for fuel.) I do recall, for a while, probably 77-79 or so, there was a late departure from ORD to SBN and FWA..then they threw the mail,and cargo, on it and it (usually a 72S, or a 727 never a 737)) departed back to ORD around midnight..many nights I could hear it climbing out over Aboite twp.
There may have been some DC8 cargo flights in the very early 70's, if so, I thin k they got dropped with the Oct1973 -April 1974 Arab oil embargo and subsequent fuel shortages during that winter.

I had forgot about the few DC 10's, and a few times after the debacle of the Blizzard of 77 or 78 at ORD, UA made FWA a prime diversion airport. Late fall for a few years on Saturday nights they had a few familiarization flights with 747, DC10 and Stretch 8's coming in and do touch and go's. Used to stand by the fence on Ferguson rd and watch.
Those were the days!
 
beerbus
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:43 am

From FWA:

In the late '90's, at the peak of CVG, DL had 1x ATL, 1x TOL, 6x CVG. 2-3 of these flights were main line, generally one to each Hub. (week day sked)

NW had 6x DTW, 2 DC9's, 1 ARJ, and three Saab's. (week days)

ex INDSSNW CLESDNW DTWSDNW
 
jetskipper
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:03 am

beerbus wrote:
From FWA:

In the late '90's, at the peak of CVG, DL had 1x ATL, 1x TOL, 6x CVG. 2-3 of these flights were main line, generally one to each Hub. (week day sked)

NW had 6x DTW, 2 DC9's, 1 ARJ, and three Saab's. (week days)

ex INDSSNW CLESDNW DTWSDNW


I was actually 3 mainline DL in the peak. One CVG-FWA RON usually a 737-200, and two 727-200s routing ATL-TOL-FWA-ATL and ATL-FWA-TOL-ATL.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:28 am

Tan Flyr wrote:
exFWAOONW..pretty good memory..I was in my late teens and 20's those years..NO UA 720's..long gone..The only DC8's I recall were the charters and an occasional tech stop on CLE- LAX runs when CLE had runway construction and range was limited out of there..no issues on that at FWA with 10K ft of Rwy. (It was a short period of time and even some 72S headed to the west coast had to stop for fuel.) I do recall, for a while, probably 77-79 or so, there was a late departure from ORD to SBN and FWA..then they threw the mail,and cargo, on it and it (usually a 72S, or a 727 never a 737)) departed back to ORD around midnight..many nights I could hear it climbing out over Aboite twp.
There may have been some DC8 cargo flights in the very early 70's, if so, I thin k they got dropped with the Oct1973 -April 1974 Arab oil embargo and subsequent fuel shortages during that winter.

I had forgot about the few DC 10's, and a few times after the debacle of the Blizzard of 77 or 78 at ORD, UA made FWA a prime diversion airport. Late fall for a few years on Saturday nights they had a few familiarization flights with 747, DC10 and Stretch 8's coming in and do touch and go's. Used to stand by the fence on Ferguson rd and watch.
Those were the days!


When I was in the military I flew on that late departure out of ORD to SBN. As I recall it was a B72S.
 
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Re: Indiana Aviation: Part 16

Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:18 pm

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