Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
whywhyzee
Topic Author
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:08 pm

Hello all, hoping someone can shed some light on a curious situation going on here at YYZ.

Air France's Daily flight AF356/351 is currently using a HiFly A340-500, and is scheduled to use it for the next 3 days as well. Word I have is it is due to a pilot strike, however, other AF flights seem to be operating normally, anyone have any idea. (The spotter in me is not complaining, but the ops guy is certainly curious!)

My thinking was as follows; AF has never really been able to carve out any sort of real dominance on YYZ-CDG, AC run 2-3 daily flights compared to 1 on AF, and they have TS to compete with as well running more then daily in the summer. I figured, if it was strike related, why not just cancel and re-route passengers?
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:06 pm

Quoting whywhyzee (Thread starter):
I figured, if it was strike related, why not just cancel and re-route passengers?

Reroute through which airport/airline and how many empty seats are there at this time of year? Perhaps was it easier to lease in capacity than attempt to reroute passengers.
 
behramjee
Posts: 5139
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:15 pm

Looks most likely due to the AF pilots strike for sure as its a wet lease for three days only. In addition AC in peak summer flies double daily CDG flights from both YUL and YYZ where as in winter season it's always daily.
 
whywhyzee
Topic Author
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

RE: Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:54 pm

If it is due to the strike, why is YYZ the only (or one of the only) stations affected?
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:05 am

Quoting whywhyzee (Reply 3):
If it is due to the strike, why is YYZ the only (or one of the only) stations affected?

It was probably a route where it was most difficult to rebook passengers on cancelled flights with most flights this time of year close to full.

News reports say AF cancelled 7% of longhaul flights, 9% of domestic flights and 27% of medium haul flights on Saturday.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36506035
 
YYZAMS
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:54 pm

RE: Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:38 am

I agree with most and would add lots of people from yyz transit in cdg to other cities on AF.
YYZ is important to AF.
KLM has 2 flights during the summer from YYZ wonder if AF could do thee same.
 
whywhyzee
Topic Author
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

RE: Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:56 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
It was probably a route where it was most difficult to rebook passengers on cancelled flights with most flights this time of year close to full.

News reports say AF cancelled 7% of longhaul flights, 9% of domestic flights and 27% of medium haul flights on Saturday.

Cool, thanks for the insights.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1722
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

RE: Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:36 am

Quoting YYZAMS (Reply 5):

How does that make sense?

DL/KL/AF have a JV TATL. You say KL is 2x YYZ-AMS during summer and you wonder if AF should be 2x to CDG, which is why they're subbing in the HiFly plane. Yet you say YYZ is important to AF and you intimate AF is only canceling international flights thus far to YYZ. Conversely, BOS has 5x AF/KL/DL flights (2x AMS, 3x CDG) and none appear to be affected. So ask yourself again how important is YYZ to AF?
 
whywhyzee
Topic Author
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

RE: Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:49 am

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 7):
How does that make sense?

I have to agree with what you postulate. Normally, I tend to be rather steadfast in my evaluations, I swayed a little today, but evidently I'm not the only one questioning the significance of YYZ to AF. No doubt its a large market, with 4-5 daily flights, but only one on AF, the simple answer is competition. Since we have effectively confirmed that this is a result of the pilot strike, I conclude that YYZ was chosen as one of the cancellations because it's a market where AF has less to lose. BOS doesn't have the competition YYZ does, AF/DL have the market, and likely don't want to lose what they have to connections or otherwise. It seems as if this is an example of limiting one's losses when caught between rock and hard place. Of the AF-KLM hubs, AMS seems to be the more important from that side, CDG may see more traffic, but AMS has KLM as the dominant player, though TS, Arke and AC also serve AMS from YYZ.
 
factsonly
Posts: 3063
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

RE: Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:02 am

Quoting whywhyzee (Reply 8):
Of the AF-KLM hubs, AMS seems to be the more important from that side, CDG may see more traffic, but AMS has KLM as the dominant player, though TS, Arke and AC also serve AMS from AF/KL hubs at CDG and AMS:

1. In pure size the two hubs do not differ all that much (+/- 10%):

Airport Passenger data last 12 months May 2015 - Apr. 2016:

- AMS 60.191.433 pax
- CDG 66.060.992 pax

2. In transfer traffic the two hubs differ much more substantially - Transfer Pax Year 2015:

- AMS 23.032.592 pax
- CDG 11,416,397 pax

So though AMS is a smaller airport than CDG, AMS is over 2x larger in transfer traffic.

And....just to update you on YYZ-AMS operations in S16:
- KLM 12x week
- Jet Airways 7x week
- AC 7x week
- TS 4x week
- TUI 2x week

[Edited 2016-06-12 00:08:33]
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5757
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

RE: Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:34 am

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 1):

Reroute through which airport/airline and how many empty seats are there at this time of year? Perhaps was it easier to lease in capacity than attempt to reroute passengers

It sure was the right choice for the passengers & that is better than scrambling for middle seats on TATL flights, spread out over multiple routings for a plane load of passengers. Borrowing an A-345 for a few days seems to be the logical choice vs 100's upon 100's of passengers being inconvenienced all to one city.

I'm sure YYZ is as important to AF as are many of AF's other destinations with a single daily frequency.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
goldorak
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:49 am

In Canada, YUL is much more important than YYZ. YUL is the 2nd most important AF long-haul international station (JFK is first)
 
Mortyman
Posts: 5907
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

RE: Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:58 am

I might add that it's a great looking aircraft ... Here it is at OSL :

HiFly Airbus A345 at Oslo Airport Norway

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1NMpoAigjo
 
AF777300ER
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:12 pm

RE: Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Quoting whywhyzee (Reply 3):
If it is due to the strike, why is YYZ the only (or one of the only) stations affected?

I've seen the same HiFly A340 on a CDG - COO flight also
Next trip : BOD - AJA - BOD - AMS - AUH - CDG - BOD - WAW - KRK - WAW - BOD - NCE - BOD - MRS - BOD - GVA - BOD - NCE - BOD - ZRH - ATH - JTR - JMK - HER - ATH - FRA - BOD - AMS - SIN - DPS - LOP - DPS - LBJ - DPS - SIN - AMS - BOD
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3174
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:34 pm

That A345 operated some flights for DY too. Is AF having trouble with aircraft because they rushed retirements of the 747?
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:59 pm

Quoting b747400erf (Reply 14):
Is AF having trouble with aircraft because they rushed retirements of the 747?

Have you read the rest of the thread?
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:26 pm

Quoting goldorak (Reply 11):
In Canada, YUL is much more important than YYZ. YUL is the 2nd most important AF long-haul international station (JFK is first)

But how do yields compare? I would guess that AF yield is higher from YYZ than YUL as there is probably more premium business traffic connecting beyond CDG.
 
whywhyzee
Topic Author
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

RE: Air France Using HiFly A345 To YYZ This Week

Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:06 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):
But how do yields compare? I would guess that AF yield is higher from YYZ than YUL as there is probably more premium business traffic connecting beyond CDG.

Montreal is the worlds second largest french speaking city after Paris, that fact alone assures plenty of traffic. One thing people from Quebec are known for is connections to the old country, so it wouldn't surprise me if there is a decent amount of business traffic between the two. That being said, it is most certainly a predominantly leisure route, but sheer volume alone might make up for the nature of the route, there is likely premium demand by way of there being so much demand. Some of it is bound to be premium.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos