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iwantanL1011
Topic Author
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 12:24 am

Dangerous Airplanes

Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:22 am

Are there any airplanes you would rather not fly on if
you had the option, due to safety records?

Personally, I avoid the oldest 747's.... and I don't look forward to 727 flights. I used to love the 727 but there have been an awful lot of smoke in cabin issues of late.

I would change my ticket if I were on a Bandeirante


------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: the question is not "what planes are dangerous?" i'm not about to ask that here-- cause it would become
a heated discussion.. I'm just curious about your -personal- feelings about airplanes.

------------------------------------------------------

 
Ralgha
Posts: 1589
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 1999 6:20 pm

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:24 am

I avoid the Piper Tomahawk like the plague, deathtraps they are  Big thumbs up
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
 
Guest

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:36 am

>>I avoid the Piper Tomahawk like the plague, deathtraps they are<<

I just got checked out in a Tomahawk last week at British Airways Flying Club, I found it a very easy plane to fly, with no bad habits, why do you not like it?
Iain
 
User avatar
wilcharl
Posts: 1179
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Sun Feb 11, 2001 7:32 am

Iain if you are going to fly the Traumahawk, it was nice knowing you... Just kidding, I would never do stalls in one, and certainly not a spin. There is loads of stuff about it on the internet. The guy on the CFI checkride that flat spun it with the FAA on board kinda made it really bad, The aircraft that was produced was not the aircraft deigned by piper. During the cost saving 70s they decided certain parts (wing spars) were not necessary and eliminated them.
 
User avatar
fanoftristars
Posts: 1677
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 9:03 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Sun Feb 11, 2001 8:07 am

The most dangerous types that I avoid are those ones without wings. I am so scared everytime my travel agent books me on one....
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
Ralgha
Posts: 1589
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 1999 6:20 pm

RE: Iainhol

Sun Feb 11, 2001 3:22 pm

Wilcharl answered your question, that why I won't fly one  Big thumbs up

I love spins, anything that will kill me in one, even if I don't intend to spin it, is bad  Big thumbs up Excepting airliners of course Big thumbs up
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
 
roberson
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2000 10:05 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Sun Feb 11, 2001 4:22 pm

No way would I ever fly a Russian built or operated aircraft.

In the US, unless it was the only way to get to my destination, I would not take an AirTran DC-9. The incidents involving in-flight fires, poor maintence, and other mishaps is just too great for the former-Valujet carrier. I'd feel great taking a 717 on AirTran, and hope that the DC-9s disappear ASAP before the next accident occurs involving one. Overall, however, if economics is an issue that would make the difference between driving or flying an older plane on a lowfare carrier, I would always choose the better odds of flying (even AirTran DC-9s) than to risk death driving in the US.

I think that 727s are some of the more reliable and safest airplanes and would fly one any day on a major carrier, but many are beginning to reach the end of their service lives. Personally, I really like flying on a 727 and find it to be one of the safest aircraft in the industry along with the 737, 757, 767, 777, and MD-80 series. All are great aircraft. Airbuses rank second in my mind because of the sidestick instead of a regular flight yoke and issues involving the computer having the final word regarding pilot control inputs.

In regard to early Boeing 741 and 742 models, many have probably been retired after TWA-800 and those that haven't I'm sure have received a high level of scrutiny regarding safety issues after the disaster.

Overall, I feel safe flying on almost every US airline when compared to the alternative of driving along with all the other maniacs on our highway system.
 
Guest

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Sun Feb 11, 2001 5:04 pm

If I had a choice between an old aircraft and a fairly new one, i would always pick the newer one. The reason is simple, things just as people degreade with years to the point that they are unpredictable. I would make an exeption for the L-1011 since I find it amazing. Aircraft I would rather not fly on would be the 727, 737-200(those long engines look ancient, cabins tearing apart etc.), DC-9 and the DC-10.
 
CPDC10-30
Posts: 4688
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 4:30 pm

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Sun Feb 11, 2001 5:54 pm

No way would I ever fly a Russian built or operated aircraft.

Care to elaborate why? I don't see any reasons.

I feel very fortunate any chance I get to fly, so I would never avoid a specific type or airline.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23574
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:20 pm

I would rather not fly on a DC-8. I lived in Portland when a UA DC-8 ran out of gas and crashed. I don't think the type really matters, it's more the company that owns the equipment. I've had a bad experience on CO once, but that was years ago. That DC-9 was nice, but the crew was not.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Bigginhill
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:17 pm

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:28 pm

I would also avoid regions such as Russia or some
African countries rather than individual airliners.
I would fly a DC3 in the USA or Europe but in
Angola?
If I am flying to Eastern Europe I would rather pay
more to fly British Airways rather than CSA or Malev
or Tarom.
Older aircraft are obviously a bigger worry than newer aircraft -I would rather fly in a 737-700 than a 737-200.
 
Guest

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:31 pm

Russian built aircraft are DANGEROUS!
Recently an Aeroflot IL62 disappeared from radar after takeoff from Helsinki and almost crashed with a Finnair MD80. I've flow'n Russian aircraft twice Helsinki-Budapest and Budapest-Helsinki, it was a Malev T154B2 and i was scared the entire flight.

Regards
Alexander Holst
Helsinki, Finland
ICQ 94604005
 
tim
Posts: 676
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2000 12:25 pm

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:51 pm

One important point:

Any airplane can be dangerous, depending on maintenance procedures.

Tim
 
AndyEastMids
Posts: 1101
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 10:24 pm

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Sun Feb 11, 2001 7:08 pm

One of THE best flights I've ever had was in a Bolivian Curtiss C-46 Commando. It looked like a wreck, at least unless you really appreciate C-46s, which I do, in which case it looked marvellous! It took them fifteen minutes to get it started, there were no doors in the overwing exits (nice pix out of the windows though!), no seats except for the two pilots seats, and the following day it blew an engine on takeoff. I also had five minutes in the left hand seat whilst it was flying!

But as I said, one of THE best flights I've ever had.

Why worry... Life's too short. I'd happily fly on any types I haven't flown on before, especially some of the Russians that I haven't done to date.

If I was worrying, which I'm not really, it'd be about a dozen hours in a 777 180+ minutes single engine time from the nearest diversion airport.

Andy
 
kmia
Posts: 128
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Roberson

Sun Feb 11, 2001 9:34 pm

I agree with you, great statement  Big thumbs up
 
Sasha
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:26 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Sun Feb 11, 2001 11:14 pm

Russian airplanes dangerous? How uneducated and prejudiced...

Can a Western type operate in such extreme weather and maintenance conditions like those planes in Russia?

The only dangerous Russian planes are those that fly above your head full loaded with warheads. Think before you speak.
An2/24/28,Yak42,Tu154/134,IL18/62/96,B737/757/767,A310/320/319,F100,BAe146,EMB-145,CRJ,A340-600,B747-400,A-330-300,A-340
 
Sasha
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:26 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Sun Feb 11, 2001 11:16 pm

BTW, when that IL-62 disappeared from radar why everyone went on to moan that it was the plane's fault? Why not question the radar that couldn't trace it?
An2/24/28,Yak42,Tu154/134,IL18/62/96,B737/757/767,A310/320/319,F100,BAe146,EMB-145,CRJ,A340-600,B747-400,A-330-300,A-340
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Sun Feb 11, 2001 11:44 pm

I don't know why people name the 727, when is the last time one crashed?

I try to avoid anything with propellors unless perhaps it is huge like a C-130.

I flew on a Grand Canyon tour DHC-6 last year, there were a lot of updrafts that day that made the small plane bounce all over the place. At times it seemed that the plane was standing still in air.


Back when Mesaba (Northwest Airlink) still flew DASH-8s my buddy was flying into Detroit DTW from Traverse City Mich on one when all of a sudden the plane did a 90 degree roll and then nearly spun sideways before landing. My buddy was later told he was caught in the wake of the Northwest 747-400 that had landed before them. I really hope Mesaba goes to an all jet fleet soon.
 
AC320
Posts: 2809
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Sun Feb 11, 2001 11:48 pm

That little incident could have been avoided if the controllers had assured proper spacing between the two aircraft.
fuddle duddle
 
Guest

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:03 am

>>I really hope Mesaba goes to an all jet fleet soon.<<

Even if you where in a jet the wake turbulance from a 747 will throw you around. The CEO of IN N OUT died in one of General Lions (AirCal) Westwinds, when it got to close to a 757 infront.
Iain
 
critter
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2000 1:36 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:47 am

An aircraft's safety is directly dependant on the people that maintain them and the crews that fly them. Sure manufactures are also in the mix, but they are in the business of selling planes, and you cant sell one that will kill all of its customers. That being said, flying is such an awesome rush that it doesn't matter what kind of a craft I am in. It is awesome to see Gods creation from any airborne perspective. I personaly would board almost any aircraft built just to expierence its unique characteristics.

FLY HIGH AND HAPPY!

God bless.
critter
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
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RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 1:49 am

Tim...


Maintenance?? Accidents involving improper maintenance are few and far between when compared to "pilot error". Approximately 14% of accidents are caused by improper maintenance. About 70% are cause by pilot error, most of which involve the failure to follow standard operating procedures.

I think the question should be "What flight crew would you not fly with"

 Smile


By the way, if an MU-2 showed up on the ramp before departure I would run away. Similarily a Cessna 208 or Pilatus PC-12 if it was night or bad weather.
 
Luxair
Posts: 846
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 12:17 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 1:58 am

I totally agree with SashA, what a bullshit they
wrote about Russian AC's!!!
 
Guest

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 2:07 am

People who bash Russian a/c: Would you rather fly a well-maintained IL-96 or a badly-maintained 737?
I'd think you'd choose the Russian plane in a minute.

It's maintenance (or lack thereof) that makes a plane dangerous, not brand or type.

Corey777
 
crjmech
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2000 6:31 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 2:10 am

I've always heard bad things about the old Ercoupes. They were designed to be flown as one would drive a car; there were no rudder pedals. The rudders were rigged to the control wheel. Turning the wheel would move the ailerons and rudders and the plane would perform a coordinated turn everytime (supposedly). I guess after a few Ercoupes drilled holes in the ground the engineers thought rudder pedals would be a good idea and introduced them into the design.
Thou shalt mind thine altitude,lest the ground reach up and smite thee.
 
caravelle
Posts: 656
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 4:33 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 2:23 am

Have to agree - I'd much rather fly a quite so-so manitained Russian plane than a European/American one. Russians know how to build sturdy planes.
EurAmericans know how to stuff 'em full of not-fool-proof-as-such technology....

- caravelle
Trains and boats and planes....
 
Ilyushin96M
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 3:15 am

To Russian Aircraft Bashers

Mon Feb 12, 2001 3:48 am

Before you go off about how bad Russian aircraft are, do some research. All of the uninformed, prejudiced comments are growing increasingly tiresome.

For my part, I don't think there is any particular type of aircraft which could be considered unsafe. How many crashes have there been in the past year, and of what types of aircraft? If you compare the amount of air crashes with the amount of auto crashes, the statistics are staggering. Flying is and will remain the safest way to travel, no matter on what aircraft or airline.
 
Guest

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 5:11 am

One russian aircraft I would conisder dangerous would be the first Il-62's, the engines on these planes had a tendancy to explode. Im not sure about the Il-62M but im guessing this problem was addressed.
 
roberson
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2000 10:05 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:38 am

There may be some truth to Russian-built planes being better built for operations in severe conditions, but in general, Russian planes are not held to the same standards as planes based from the US or Western Europe. Ever since the breakup of the USSR, there have been more and more problems finding spare parts and well trained maintenence crews to work on older Russian aircraft. Additionally, safety equipment such as collision avoidance systems is less frequently installed in older Russian aircraft (I remember an air-to-air collision involving a 747 and a Russian airliner (about 15 years ago) that occured because the Russian plane couldn't have collision-avoidance technology installed due to the design). When you analyze the number of accidents that occur involving western airliners compared to their Russian counterparts, I think you will find that the number of flights in the US and Europe is probably directly proportional to a higher number of accidents annually. Since Russian planes generally don't fly as often and fly fewer shorthaul routes compared to their western counterparts, it is logical that there are fewer accidents overall and less stress placed upon the aircraft. I would fly a brand new Russian-built plane anyday over an old 727 or 737 operated by some lowfare carrier. However, I simply don't feel that planes built prior to the breakup of the USSR have been kept up to the same level of safety of their western counterparts built during the same time period.
 
L-1011-500
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2000 2:40 pm

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 7:51 am

Roberson -

The collision between the Russian airliner and the 747 happened in 1996. That was between a Saudi 747 Classic and a Kazakh IL-76. It was in India.

L-1011-500
 
L-1011-500
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2000 2:40 pm

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 7:52 am

Roberson -

The collision between the Russian airliner and the 747 happened in 1996. That was between a Saudi 747 Classic and a Kazakh IL-76. It was in India.

L-1011-500
 
Guest

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 8:06 am

Also the Asiana 744 and Aerflot IL-96 (I think) in Achorage and the Asiana plane had less damage.
Iain
 
Red Panda
Posts: 1433
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:58 pm

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 8:08 am

DC-10, it has bad records, and I had bad experience about it.

regards,
r panda
 
Guest

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 8:11 am

lainhol,the Aeroflot plane was an Il-62M not a Il 96

Regards
 
TWA717_200
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 1999 3:51 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 10:05 am

I know several ATP's and none of them will fly on this plane:


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Colin K. Work



Now if you don't feel that this plane is dangerous, do a query search here:

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/Query.asp

Enter Mitsubishi as Make and start your query at 1/1/83.

Now you might say that there are more incidents involving Cessna's...but think about the numbers in service in the U.S.

It is a DANGEROUS plane.
 
Airbus A380
Posts: 508
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 3:54 am

RE: To Russian Aircraft Bashers

Mon Feb 12, 2001 10:22 am

Personally, I don't think Russian airliners are that dangerous. The safety of the aircraft should be based on how high is the standard of the aircraft maintenance itself, not from where its built or originated from.

Even if its an A340 or 747 or 777, no matter how safe y'all considered, if the airline which owns it, maintains a very low standard of aircraft maintenance, be prepared for a mishap to happen.

There is no such thing as a dangerous airplane or the safest one, it remains entirely on the maintenance standard.

Although one particular aircraft which have been taken out of service long time ago and which I think is the most dangerous is probably the De Havilland Comet, but still this is another story.
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8139
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 10:30 am

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the MD-11 series. Pilots have expressed concern that the MD-11 is extremely sensitive on takeoff and landing, and in fact a FedEx MD-11 crashed due the pilot no knowing about the "quirks" of this plane and a CI MD-11 crashed at HKG recently for the same reason.

However, today's ETOPS-certified planes are some of the SAFEST planes you can fly.  Smile The strict maintainance procedures and more backup systems required for ETOPS-180 certification is the reason why they will be very safe planes to fly in general. After all, has any 777 crashed yet? Even the recent incident with the EK 777-300 shows that the plane was able to stop safely thanks to the plentiful backup systems on the plane as required for ETOPS certification.
 
sccutler
Posts: 5843
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

To Airbus Driver- B737

Mon Feb 12, 2001 10:45 am

The 737 has one of the best safety records of any current aircraft in service. And (notwithstanding the fantasy press otherwaise) there has never been a demonstrably-proven "rudder hardover" incident. This includes efforts to duplicate the alleged phenomenon on the control units in aircraft which have crashed.

Perhaps you have superior knowledge to share with us?
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
QantasA3XX
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2000 3:20 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 11:03 am

The planes i have second thoughts of flying on is
DC-8s , B707s , B737-200s ,B741 and B742s .. and DC-10 , i probably will swop for newer aircrafts like Airbus or the newer Boeing planes!!

QantasA3XX
 
Guest

RE: DH Comet

Mon Feb 12, 2001 11:11 am

[The aircraft] which I think is the most dangerous is probably the De Havilland Comet, but still this is another story.

A lot of what made the Comet crash (pressurazation and square windows don't mix) was simply because it was a first of its type, not because it was a badly-built plane.

Corey777
 
Airbus A380
Posts: 508
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 3:54 am

RE: DH Comet

Mon Feb 12, 2001 11:15 am

And that is why I said, THIS IS ANOTHER STORY. Because it is not the maintenance procedures which made it unsafe but due to its poor aerodynamics and explodable engines during inflight.
 
fjnovak1
Posts: 583
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2000 2:23 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:41 pm

After a couple of trips on US Airways this past summer, I would stay away from the US 737-200s...and according to my sister oen should avoid any 737 belonging to America West...they are in horrible shape...but like people have said, thats only on the inside...as long as the engines and other parts are in good condition, then any plane is pretty much cool with me. The ones that have crappy-looking interiors are usually just ones that are destined for retirement soon...

Why do people keep saying 727 though...thats one of the better planes out there IMO...I took two Northwest 727s from DTW to PBI and back last month and found them to be be great; plus the planes interior didn't look that dated as one would expect.
Go Blue!!
 
sccutler
Posts: 5843
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

DH Comet

Mon Feb 12, 2001 1:33 pm

The Comet Mk. 1 was dangerous, but not because of its engines or aerodynamics; the structural failures which they suffered resulted from stress cracks originating at window openings, and structure which was inadequately engineered for the repeated pressurization/depressurization cycles. Inexperience in the industry with these issues was the reason the engineering was inadequate.

But for the Comet I's failures (which could well have happened to another manufacturer had they been first to market with a revolutionary plane like the DH Comet), the British might have dominated the jet airliner market.

As it was, the redesigned Comets (which had the same aerodynamics and derivative engines) had a technically successful career.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Clive Dyball

...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
iwantanL1011
Topic Author
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 12:24 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 1:45 pm

The reason I mention 727 is not because of it's statistics... It rates among the lowest (safest) with .6 fatal events per million flights. Whereas the MD-11 has 5 fatal events per million flights!

Here's why i dont really feel as comfortable on the 727 as I used to:

- After takeoff the airplane feels kinda unstable, yawing left and right, and it just feels like it isnt
a good climber.

- Watching takeoffs of various aircrafts, the 727 has
a very long takeoff roll- I haven't ever looked this up, just my observation... longer than many widebodies.

- They are -so- old.. I know this isn't necessarily a bad thing... but 30+ years? Thats alot of takeoffs and landings. Think about it....

Braniff was my favorite airline and I loved their 727's... i think its a great plane.. I just feel safer on a 757,etc.

I also avoid DC-9's. But If I get put on one i see it as kind of an adventure.

 
Guest

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 1:57 pm

I'm sorry, but most of these posts are just plain goofy. America West this, USAirways that, 727s, Russian planes...yada, yada ya

Flying is a jillion times safer than driving on EVERY continent.

There's no justifiable reason (save for poor weather and pilots not fit to fly) for not flying ANY plane operated by any airline in any Western (any most Eastern) nations.

Let's see, 1975 737-200 vs 2001 BMW sedan, I'll take the 737 every time.
 
User avatar
ERJ135
Posts: 685
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2000 4:04 pm

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 7:38 pm

I don't care.
I'll fly on anything unless the weather is foul, and even then I'll probably go anyway.
I so want to fly on SCAT one day!
 
BDRules
Posts: 1474
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2000 6:31 pm

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 9:17 pm

well ive flown on 2 different russian aircraft and they were safe enough. the Yak 40 and IL62
 
N312RC
Posts: 2621
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2000 10:58 am

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Mon Feb 12, 2001 9:55 pm

To all you folks who are scared of early 747's.

I flew a BA 742 and Im still here.

I avoid the following like the plague.

737-200 (too many issues)
Early D9s (just too old)
DC-10 (too many issues).

727 is safe though, and I dont hesitate flying them. (ive been aboard with the smoke in the cabin).

Ive also been aboard a couple delta flights with condensation coming out of the air conditioning vents. Now that scared me, because I didnt know what it was.
 
Guest

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Tue Feb 13, 2001 12:43 am

The russian A/C like IL86/96 are very safe...I'd fly them any minute... and also The MD80s/90s F70/100s as well as the TriStar... Pratt Power makes you feel safe...as well as Rolls Royce.

What I don't wanna fly is a Ge powered 747-200, nothing can get me into that plane...
 
maugie
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2000 9:08 pm

RE: Dangerous Airplanes

Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:21 am

I totally agree with SashA !!!

Look to the coditions in Russia ! Russian planes are the bested....think twice before you give your argument about russian planes !

And about that IL-62 that was disappeard from the radar.....that was not the planes fould ! Not only that il-62was disappeared also other aircrafts like BoEinG and AirBUs

And Iainhol....it was not an Asiana 744 and an IL-96......but an 744 and an IL62 <<<

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