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bodobodo
Topic Author
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Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 12:30 am

There is a lot of discussion about which airlines are opting for various competing Boeing and Airbus aircraft but as there is a lot of competition also at the regional jet level I was wondering what is making companies opt for the CRJ over the Embraer or vice-versa. I realize that there are other options like the RJ100's, Dornier 328's, ... but the CRJ and Embraer 145 seem to be the leaders. Which would you choose and why. What are the pros and cons of each model that companies would be weighing when trying to decide between the two?

Cheers,
Felix
 
crewchief32
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 12:34 am

The ER4, of course, because it offers more vlomune in the cargo compartment. A must if you use it on high-loadfactor routes.

CC32
 
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 12:37 am

I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that one of the main reasons American and Continental opted for the Embraer RJ is due to the fact that these airplanes are jetway compatible. The Canadair jets are not, as far as I know, and to be honest, I have never boarded one through a jetway. On the other hand, I have boarded Continental ERJ's, through a gate (and not having to go outside) at IAH, CVG, CLE, DAL and MKE.

 
CPDC10-30
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 1:17 am

Canadair RJs are boardable via a jetway using an adapter.
 
csavel
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:57 am

I've heard varying degrees of opinion on the difficulty of using that adapter for the CRJ.
Does anyone have an idea why they designed it not to be "jetway compatible" as is the ERJ?
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
cba
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 3:08 am

I've never flown an ERJ, but I flew a Comair CRJ from HOU-CVG, and let me tell you, the CRJ gets really cramped after 2 1/2 hours.
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 3:19 am


I´ve never been onan Embraer, but I really dislike the CRJ (from a passenger´s point of view) - it´s just a stretched biz jet after all and really feels like that (cramped cramped cramped [not just after 2,5 hrs, Cba  Wink/being sarcastic]).
Daniel Smile
 
airplay
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 3:24 am

I'm not a big fan of the CRJ for flights over one hour. The seats aren't very comfortable at all.

I haven't been on an ERJ but I think the main reason for an airline to chose the ERJ over the CRJ is strictly based on price. the Brazilian government has indirectly subsidised the sales of the ERJ by offering customers a great financing deal. The government of Canada has recently stepped in with similar loan guarantees to compete following the failure of the Brazilian government to adhere to recent WTO rulings which asked that they stop the subsidies.

 
757man
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 3:29 am

The CRJ is a stretched Challenger biz jet, true, but the Challenger was designed in a way that it could be developed into a small commuter jetliner, which is what the CRJ is.

I much prefer the CRJ to the ERJ-135/145, the only reason being due to the 2+2 seating config. The ERJ is only 1+2. Saying that though, the headroom on the ERJ-145 is more generous than even a 737!!
 
cba
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 4:41 am

The ERJ offers more flexibility to customers. Jetway boarding is always a plus. No adapters needed. Embraer also offers the ERJ-135, which covers a smaller market than the ERJ-145, and they have plans for an ERJ-170 for the 70 passenger market.
 
patroni
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 5:39 am

Well, as someone said above, a top advantage of the Embraer is the generous financng through the Brazilian PROEX programm which they didn't change much even after a WTO ruling concerning the non-conformity of PROEX with the WTO rules.

The aspect of greater flexibility doesn't count that much in my opinion. OK, Embraer offers the ERJ as 135,140 and 145 with the bigger but different models 170 and 190 in the future, but also Canadair has developped a stretched version of the CRJ, (CRJ-700) plus the -900 already at the horizon.

I have flown a few times on the CRJ (Lufthansa Cityline) and on the ERJ-145 (Portugalia, Luxair) and I must say that I still can't understand why LH replaced the Fokker 50 with the CRJ for "reasons of comfort"... ok, the vibrations in the CRJ are slightly less than in the F50, but the Fokker turboprop has far more room for the passengers, including a higher cabin ceiling etc etc... but ok, people don't wanna see props on the wings, so they prefer to be squeezed in these tiny "fear-tube" jets....
The ERJ-145 is even worse. On the one hand it is better than the CRJ by offering a 1-2 seating, thuis more space for the passenger (especially if travelling alone you don't need to sit on someone elses lap like in the 2-2 seating of the CRJ), but the noise inside the ERJ is worse than in a turboprop... I always have the feeling that they saved money on the noise insulation.

When I compare the ERJ145 with my favorite (and similar-sized) turboprop, the Saab 2000, the Saab is the clear winner....

But as I said : Since passengers *want* to have jet engines rather than props we will have to get accustomed to more of these little jet guys in the future... unfortunately....

Thomas


P.S.: It is strange, but this love for jets brings even people in a 30 year old 747 while they always feel "unsafe" when flying in a 6 months old Turboprop "which must be soooo old because it still has these weird props"....

 
watewate
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 5:48 am

ERJ 170 and 190 is based on a new fuselage. Isn't that a little risky?
 
JAL
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 8:24 am

Embraer 145  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up

CRJ  Pissed  Pissed  Pissed
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
cba
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 8:34 am

Yes, both Embraer and Canadair are offering 70/90 passenger jets, but Canadair hasn't offered a smaller CRJ to replace older 30 seat turboprops. RJ's are more popular with the customer because a lot of people think propellers are unsafe, which is bs, and RJ's are faster. Airlines like them because they have lower operating costs than mainline jets, and have the range to fly longer flights. Example: I fly up to CVG every so often to visit some family. Same flight every time, DL HOU-CVG. It was always operated on a 737-200. 2 Hour flight. Last July when I flew HOU-CVG, Comair was flying the route with a CRJ. The CRJ isn't quite as fast as the 737, so the flight took about 2 1/2 hours. CRJ's are not comfortable at all, but the airlines save $$$. Next time I fly to CVG I'm going to fly COex and see if the ERJ is any better.
 
ScottB
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 10:48 am

The CRJ has the advantage of somewhat longer range than the ERJ, but I believe Embraer will be addressing that with a ER version of their product. Embraer has an advantage in offering more than one size of the ERJ, since not all routes really need a 50-seat jet. They also have an advantage in that the ERJ doesn't need an adapter to work with jetways.

Canadair was first to market, I believe - so that gave them an advantage in that the early adopters (like Comair) went with them - and it would be less efficient to have both CRJ's and ERJ's on the property for commonality.
 
Guest

RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 10:50 am

The airlines have chosen: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!CRJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The CRJ has been purchased 2 to 1 over the ERJ.
 
Noise
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 11:00 am

The CRJ-700 will be in service soon. Does anyone know if this plane is any better than the CRJ-200???
 
vector
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 11:12 am


CNBC2001 you are completly wrong!!!

ERJ entered the market 4 year later and the backlog now is almost the same.
The ERJ production rate is far bigger then the CRJ. Next month Embraer will delivery the cn 400.
At the year end the cn 500 will be delivered.

Next year Embraer will deliver the new version 145XR. This version is faster, has a better range, reduced internal sound levels, ...

vector
 
Guest

RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 1:54 pm

EMBs are lame. CRJ all the way! Can't wait till the new ones are out.
 
cba
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:50 pm

The CRJ-700's are just stretches of the current CRJ. Embraer's 70 seat jet will be a twin jet with a roomy 2-2 interior, not a cramped 2-2 like in the CRJ.
 
watewate
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:53 pm

Roomier (wider fuselage) = greater fuel comsumption. It's also a whole new frame for any airline to add to its fleet. If I were to start my own airline, I'd go with CRJs that offer commonality across the board. Since when did airlines base their fleet decisions upon pax comfort level?
 
Golfhaus
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 3:24 pm

From a ramp agent's perspective, the CRJ is light years ahead of the ERJ, for the following reasons:

1) the "jetway compatibility" issue. Sounds like a plus for the ERJ, but only in airports where the jetway is being used. The US Airways Express operation in (at least) PHL and CLT, for example, doesn't use jetways because the planes park way the heck out from the building. With the CRJ, no problem. Just drop the stairs. With ERJs, however, you have to lug a set of stairs to the aircraft, and again from the aircraft.

2) The CRJ has a cargo bin that you can almost kinda sorta stand up in, although you're hunched over a bit. In the ERJ, there's very little cargo room, and it's spaced in a fashion that you pretty have to sit on your knees AND crouch over.

3) The ERJ is higher off the ground than the CRJ. If you're short a belt loader, the CRJ can be boarded without one, although it's a pain in the neck (and many muscle groups in the arms and upper back). In the ERJ, damn near impossible.

4) When marshalling, the design of the aircraft makes it necessary to stand a lot farther back from the ERJ to see the engines to make sure they're clear than in the CRJ. Far enough away, in fact, that it becomes hard to see the captain's hand signals.

On another note, like someone said, the 1x2 layout of the ERJ is kinda dippy. It's too... Jetstream 31-ish.

 
ny-jfk-lga
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 3:48 pm

But its kinda Wierd tho, the U.S Airways Express operates RJ types from BOTH companies, why would they do that though?
Bring back McDonnell Douglas & T W A!!
 
N628AU
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 7:48 pm

Two items on the US Airways Express Jet Operation:

(1) Jetways - they are coming to both PHL and CLT with the construction of the new commuter terminals in both cities.

(2) Types - 3 independent carriers operate RJ's under contract to US Airways, Mesa, TransStates, and Chatauqua. TransStates and Chatauqua both operate the ERJ, and Mesa operates both the CRJ and ERJ. They are transitioning all CRJ flying to their America West Express operation (the CRJ has better range), so soon all US Airways Express flying will be with the ERJ.

The most common CRJ complaint I have heard (and experienced) is the windows seem to be placed low in the cabin, making it uncomfortable to look out of for an extended period of time. It is very quiet, and I have sat near the engine and carried on conversations at a normal volume. I have not flown on the ERJ.
 
757man
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 8:50 pm

The winglets on the CRJ make the aircraft look good, better than the ERJ-145. The latter looks like a stick insect.

If I had to choose a regional jet though, I would go for neither of these two aircraft. The Bae146/Avro RJ series are far superior in terms of passenger comfort.
 
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ERJ135
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 11:04 pm

Well 757man you will be delighted to hear that the new long range version of the ERJ 145 has winglets!

Airlines generally buy the aircraft they need for a given load factor on a given route. They never listen to enthusiasts for advice because they know better.

From a personal point of view only, my name shows which way I lean. I have flown both lengths of ERJ several times and the CRJ just twice here in Australia with Kendell. The CRJ and ERJ are similar in comfort stakes for me but the CRJ actually feels cramped and small due to the large overhead bins and seemingly smaller windows which don't let as much light in. That's just an observation, it may not be true. I did notice however the ERJ has overhead bins on one side only and the windows do seem bigger and the aircraft looks a bit more lighter and airy inside. As to noise, well I found both fairly ordinary, like any plane they are quieter when you sit further away from the engines, so I think sitting up front in a 145 might be quieter because it's a bit longer and hence you'd be sitting further away from the noise.
I do however have a preference for the shorter 135, and this is mainly for asthetics. The 145 is long and thin and the shorter 135 looks more in proportion.
So why are the little jets taking over from the regional prop aircraft? Many airlines will tell you because of reduced cost, and I guess that comes from a faster servive from point A to point B which in turn allows an airline to opperate the same route network with the same frequencies but using fewer aircraft, perhaps as much as a third less. Of course in the USA the expansion has been huge in this market with COex and AM Eagle buying around 350 ERJ's between them, so there must be some obvious benefit to these two airlines.
I have nothing at all against the CRJ, it's a fine aircraft and does it's job well and many people will see it as superior and that's fine too. I just see it differently.
I so want to fly on SCAT one day!
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 11:10 pm

I think it'll be interesting to see if we start to see more regional jet operations out of SFO, especially now that SkyWest has bought a whole bunch of them lately.

I do know that SkyWest does operate a CRJ200 for Delta Connection from SFO to (I think) FAT.

It's also possible that AM Eagle may start operating ERJ's out of SJC some time in the future. This would allow feeders from various cities in northern California and northern Nevada to AA's revived hub operation at SJC.
 
b737-200
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sun Feb 18, 2001 12:32 am

The Embraer!!! It's cheaper and more comfortable than the CRJ.
 
vector
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sun Feb 18, 2001 2:50 am


At mid 2001, American Eagle will receive the first of 130 ERJ-140 ordered!

Then We will see one more ERJ family member!

CRJ wins a Delta contract (ASA + Comair) and will deliver CRJ's in 37-44 seat configuration. But will be the same CRJ-200 with fewer seats. Of course that will be more space for passengers... But I'd like to know How can a Bigger plane, carrying fewer passenger, be the best choice!

regards

vector
 
airNondo
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sun Feb 18, 2001 10:45 am

Mucho miss-inormation toward the top of this post...also many of the questions have recently been answered in other posts re: similar regional jet topics:

My vote goes to the CRJ all the way!  Wink/being sarcastic

1) Jetway loading with the CRJ is a breeze... the adapter is a simple bridge that almost all mid-sized airports have on hand. Larger airports may prefer to load/unload all regional pass. w/o jetway access for their own efficiency reasons...not because the jet can't handle it.

2) CRJ is one of the quietest and most comfortable (depends on configuration though) aircraft I have recently flown on. This is even on a completely full flight. Not to mention beautiful landing/ takeoff apparatus.

3) Space on the CRJ200 is only crampt in areas of standing headroom, isle passage, and lavatory. Seat pitch/legroom is batter than many larger craft. However, with the 700 and 900 (in development) cabin area is enlarged. I can't wait to fly one of these mods when released. I hear AS will be getting some.

4) Cruising speed slightly more than most Boeing craft.

5) And finally...pictures speak loader than words!

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Photo © Michael F. McLaughlin



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Photo © George polfliet



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Christopher Smay

 
MD-90
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RE: Embraer 145 Vs. CRJ: Which To Choose?

Sun Feb 18, 2001 11:34 am

From my, non-airline economist point of view.

CRJ:
+ Seat pitch is greater than Delta's 737s, and even their MD-88s.
+ It looks better than the ERJ
+ I thought the seats were very comfortable
- The small, low windows are a major drawback.

ERJ:
+ I prefer 1-2 seating
+ Supposedly it's bigger inside, with more headroom and space.
- It does look kinda funny from the rear; it's back end is too fat

Personally, I think the best mix for a regional would be 328JETs and CRJ-200s and CRJ-700s.
 
toxtethogrady
Posts: 1861
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I Flew My First CRJ Three Years Ago

Sun Feb 18, 2001 1:00 pm

Before ACA put them into regular service. The ERJ is a longer range, but the CRJ was surprisingly comfortable...like flying a small DC-9. The ERJ is almost the same footprint as a small DC-9, and the CRJ is slightly shorter. Since CO flies them long-distance to Mexico, the ERJ makes more sense for them.

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