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SInGAPORE_AIR
Topic Author
Posts: 11623
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Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Thu Feb 22, 2001 9:04 pm

My 3rd major news post of the day!

Japanese airlines say no plans to buy Airbus A380
Wednesday February 21, 11:02 PM EST

TOKYO, Feb 22 (Reuters) - Leading Japanese airlines said on Thursday they have no immediate plans to buy more aircraft from Airbus Industrie (ARBU), scotching a rumour that a Japanese airline is about to buy 15 planes from a European maker.

Rumours in financial markets about a purchase raised the possibility that it might involve Airbus's new A380 superjumbo. The 555-seater plane is due to start commercial flights in 2006.

Japan Airlines Co Ltd (JAL) (9201), Japan Air System Co Ltd (JAS) (9203) and All Nippon Airways Co Ltd (ANA) (9202) all said they had no immediate plans to buy European planes.

"We cannot say we aren't interested in the A380, but it would be very expensive to adapt peripheral facilities," an ANA spokesman said.

JAS has 36 Airbus A300 planes and ANA has 25 A320s and seven A321s.

Airbus Industrie's Tokyo representative was not immediately available to comment.

In January, Airbus said it would set up a Japanese unit this spring to strengthen sales to Japanese airlines and boost ties with aircraft components makers.

It said it hoped to seal a supply deal with JAL, which currently owns no Airbus aircraft.

In November, rival Boeing Co (BA) won a $1.6 billion deal from JAL for 11 wide-body jets, including eight 777-200ERs and three 767-300ERs.

Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8822
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Thu Feb 22, 2001 9:09 pm

Hmmm... Very suspicious. I predict an A380 order from ANA. If the cost of "peripheral facilities" is the best they can come up with, it doesn't sound like a very plausible denial. I don't see how they have a choice - BA, SQ, QF, VS and others will all be flying to Japan with the A380, with operating costs 20% lower than JAL or ANA equipment (and a lot more novelty / prestige factor) if JAL and ANA stick with the 747. That's GOT to hurt. The A380'll look great in ANA livery.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Ikarus
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Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:18 pm

RE: Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Thu Feb 22, 2001 9:16 pm

Japanese airlines would be more interested in their home market - not on international routes. I suppose if there was an A380D they would be more interested. But at the moment I don't see them buying it.

Who knows, maybe ILFC's planes will be leased as trial by Japanese airlines and BA?

BTW: BA hasn't bought them yet, right? They just stated that they don't want it, if I remember correctly.
 
WorldTraveller
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 1999 3:47 am

RE: Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Thu Feb 22, 2001 9:49 pm

If (and that's a BIG "if") a Japanese airline orders the A380, it will most likely be ANA.

Japan Airlines is so closely tied to Boeing that it would need a major breakup (or cancellation of the B747X project) for it to choose the A380.

ANA however already operates the A320 family and could order the A380 to gain more ground to ANA and get a place in the spotlight.

Best regards
the WorldTraveller
 
Victor Hotel
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 8:29 pm

RE: Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Thu Feb 22, 2001 10:41 pm

As I said on another thread, I think its a pretty big possibility that JAL or ANA or both may order the A380 in the future. They both use 747 400D's now, and both try to compete with bullet train fares, so a bigger, and possibly cheaper high capacity domestic aircraft may be a choice for them. Thats if airbus do offer a domestic version.
VH
 
JAL
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RE: Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Thu Feb 22, 2001 11:26 pm

JAL will not likely to buy any Airbus planes because their relationship with Boeing is too strong.
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
sia jubilee
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2000 12:48 am

RE: Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Fri Feb 23, 2001 1:27 am

Maybe B747X really hasn't any point to press the airline to buy.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Topic Author
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RE: Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:53 am

The JL airlines will need to get some kind of superjumbo. They will not stand by and let competitors like Singapore Airlines! take the pax will they! It wouldn't make sense!
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8822
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:57 am

JAL may have to order the A380 if the 747 Stretch doesn't happen. No matter how closely linked to Boeing JAL may be, one (or two - KAL) customer isn't going to launch a new (ish) airframe. It'd cost a lot more to stretch the 747 compared to the 757-300 or 767-400, these aircraft are more efficient types to start with and obviously smaller. And if ANA are flying the A380 on domestic routes and JAL the 747, then JAL's operating cost will be 10% higher. Now, when you consider that the profit margin on an airline ticket is in the 5% bracket, it is obvious the disadvantage JAL will have. The narrow profit margin is especially the case on short range cheap tickets. Japan will be by far the most interesting market to watch in the Superjumbo War, since they have the most pressing need for bigger planes, since they carry vast numbers between slot-controlled airports, whether on domestic routes or the longest of long haul (LHR, CDG). Yet they are tied closely to America, and are anxious to develop their own aerospace industries. Curiouser and curiouser...
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
tupolev154b2
Posts: 1269
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 9:01 am

RE: Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:57 am

I believe that there is an A380-800R or whatever that is an A380-800 with degraded range that will be specifically for the Japanese market.
 
l'espace180
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 9:55 am

RE: Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:58 am

Yeah it is the A380-800S
 
Guest

RE: Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Fri Feb 23, 2001 3:03 am

A380-800R is an INCREASED range version being studied. However, Airbus is looking at a short-range version, not sure about the name though...
Anyway, I don't see JAL ordering A380, they're too close to Boeing, as for ANA, well, maybe, who knows...
 
cwapilot
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RE: Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Fri Feb 23, 2001 5:51 am

So, if i understand some of the arguments being made here, passengers will be flocking in droves to airlines with the A380 at the expense of those without. The A380 will be 10% cheaper to run than the 747X. Even though they have stated they have no intention of ordering, just like BA did months ago (and now looked what happened with BA) they will anyway. ALL A BUNCH OF CRAP.

For one, most passengers don't know what type of airliner they are on, nor do they give a damn. They will choose based on the factors that they as individuals have used in the past, before the A380. An airline with the A380 is no more advanced than one without...the ones with just have a bigger liability when the economy goes south and they have a bohemouth they can't fill.

Secondly, where is this 10% coming from? Why is Airbus still comparing the A380 with the older 747 model, and not the 747X? And why, over the past several months, has this so called savings quietly dropped from 25% then to 17%, then to 15%, and now all the way dowon to 10%? The 747X will be as cheap or cheaper to operate, depending on what figures you look at.

Finally, I find this amazing...has the Clinton era double speak really penetrated this deeply? When someone says something, they really mean the opposite? The people that actually RUN the airlines have said they have no intention of ordering. But here, our own geniuses have obviously decided that they know best, and really know better what these airlines will do than the airline executives themselves.

Japanese companies make business decisions with great consideration given to how Japan as a whole will benefit, probably moreso than in any other country in the world. Japan has much more to gain economically from a 747X order than it does an A380 glamour order. So far, the biggest argument I seem to be hearing is that the A380 will be the image maker...that's one expensive and potentially financially devastating image purchase. Japan will not risk this...their heavy industry wants to continue to manufacture for Boeing and to do more than they already do. Their aerospace industry is also in close cooperation with Boeing. In any case, it is a stupid point for us to argue, especially when the airlines themselves have made their statement, and only they know what they are going to do, if's and's and but's nonwithstanding.
Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
 
Guest

RE: Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Fri Feb 23, 2001 6:05 am

The Japanese carriers have been a bit short of cash for a while - JL actually openly complained on its website about Japan's expensive airport slot fees and fuel tax (which is they say 20 times of what the US charges!?).

If any of you have read the ANA future plan topic that I posted... it does seem likely that they would be the one, out of Japanese airlines, to buy the A380. Of course, given that they don't necessarily want an all-out long-haul expansion, the A380 thing isnt so sure.
 
SAA-SAL
Posts: 345
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 11:41 pm

RE: Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Fri Feb 23, 2001 6:54 am

I believe that the A380 will recieve the type of welcome the B747-100 recieved in it's time. People not very interested in aviation will want to fly this aircraft because it will recieve so much media attention during it's first passenger flight. I'm quite amazed to see,
especially here in Europe, that everyone knows what the A3XX is(not sure they know the new name), even people who only know how to recognise a "747". It's a bit like the concorde, if everyone had the choice, they would always prefer flying this aircraft over others ;problem is they can't afford it. Well if they had the choice, they would prefer flying the A380 over other aircraft. This time they will have the choice.
SAA B747 SP, Luxavia B747 SP
 
cv640
Posts: 843
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 8:10 pm

RE: Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Fri Feb 23, 2001 8:11 am

In the 19770's airlines ordered the B747 because of prestige and cause other airlines were operating it. Soon when they had to pay for them they realized that they didn't really need them and now had to pay up. I believe airlines have learned their lesson. People don't care too much what airplane they are flying, no matter what Airbus or Boeing claim. What they care about are good prices, services, on time, and comfort. If an airline has the need for the A380 or the B747X they will order it, not cause a competitor is flying it. They have learned that lesson the hard way. It may be even more difficult today to recover from a mistake then in the '70s, as less airlines have the need for a large aircraft right now
 
Archie Bunker
Posts: 359
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2000 3:22 am

RE: Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Fri Feb 23, 2001 3:27 pm

The Concorde had the technology...look at the number of airlines that rushed to buy it after BA and AF. They couldn't compete without it.  Big grin
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: Japanese Airlines - No Intention To Buy A380

Fri Feb 23, 2001 3:48 pm

Any type of new aircraft any airline buys will create media attention (spurred by the airline itself of course). But this is very, very short lived windfall and is of little consequence because as Cwapilot stated, most pax don't know what their flying anyway.

But the worst thing Boeing or Airbus could do is take any customer for granted. Thats when these unpleasant surprises tend to pop up.

Do any Japanese manufacturers have any offset agreements with Airbus at this time?
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