Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
wjcandee
Topic Author
Posts: 8953
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Southwest Accident: Charmed?

Tue Mar 06, 2001 1:12 am

So WN runs an a/c off the end of a runway in Phoenix yesterday, and the media barely takes notice.

If this were Airtran, imagine what the reaction would be.

Someone said that this wasn't as serious as Burbank. Actually, I disagree. In Burbank, the crew was aware of the runway conditions, length, etc. Apparently, they simply chose to continue an approach that they should have aborted and landed far too long. That's a judgment error (a serious one), probably resulting from their Cowboy-ish, arrive-on-time cockpit culture. That likely got a revision after BUR.

If the initial reports are correct, the PHX accident was based on *lack of knowledge* as to the length of the runway, which was being modified. That means, somewhere, a failure to complete certain checklists or fully listen to ATIS or review certain charts. That's much, much worse than the judgment error in BUR, in my view.

In both cases, the aircraft could well have turned into flaming hulks due to pilot error, and, as I said, if this were any other discount carrier, the media would be in a feeding frenzy. What's it gonna take before Southwest gets a wake-up call, and the media actually pays attention?

--Bill
 
User avatar
johnboy
Posts: 3107
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

RE: Southwest Accident: Charmed?

Tue Mar 06, 2001 1:28 am

Whaddya mean? I heard this on all three newscasts in San Francisco last night!
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Southwest Accident: Charmed?

Tue Mar 06, 2001 8:11 am

A Southwest PILOT not being familiar with Phoenix????

Isn't that one of their main hubs? I would think that all of them would be familiar with PHX.

It's not like an AirTran pilot landing in Ontario for the first time.
 
AA737-823
Posts: 5498
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

I Disagree.

Tue Mar 06, 2001 8:18 am

Sounds more like an ATC problem to me. Maybe the message was not properly put onto the ATIS. COULD happen. I mean, knowing that he thought the runway was 11000 feet, it makes sense that he pulled a greaser rather than smack it at the numbers. Only to his dismay, HALF of the runway was... gone. Could be the result of MANY things, not just pilot error.

Randy
 
Bryan Becker
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 12:38 pm

RE: Southwest Accident: Charmed?

Tue Mar 06, 2001 8:21 am

I live in Arizona I herd it on the news. What really happen is that they were a little to high on the approach so when landing he over shot and came down a little hard. Sence he was a little further down the runway they needed more room to stop thats what really happened. Smile
 
desertjets
Posts: 7693
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: Southwest Accident: Charmed?

Tue Mar 06, 2001 8:31 am

The situation on this runway is a little odd, but nothing that should not be able to be handled. The threshold on RWY 8 is displaced in 5000' from the end of the runway. All of that area is closed for the extension and resurfacing project. There is no ILS available for RWY 8 either. So this was a visual approach. However the pilot should have been aware that only 6000' feet was available for landing and a slightly fast approach or being a little too high was especially critical in this situation, you don't want to end up on 44th Street. Perhaps b/c the incident occured at night it would have been better to request a landing on one of the 7's instead.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
ABQ757
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 1999 1:06 pm

RE: Southwest Accident: Charmed?

Tue Mar 06, 2001 8:45 am

I heard about it this morning on the local news. The plane was scheduled to come to ABQ after landing in PHX. Anyone happen to know the N Number?

Gabe
 
Guest

RE: Southwest Accident: Charmed?

Tue Mar 06, 2001 9:10 am

As you can probably imagine, all the local newscasts here in Phoenix covered the story in depth. Not sure about the others, but 3TV had two reporters on the scene, and spent the first 7 minutes (or so) of "Tonight Arizona" covering the story. I would imagine that the other stations covered it in depth as well.

As for the national newscasts, it's no wonder the story was ignored. There have been three major developing stories all day long (the San Diego school shooting, the storm in the East, and Cheney's heart trouble).

Also, the plane never left the perminter of the airport, like it did in Burbank. That fact alone made it a less "dramatic" incident from the point of view of the media.
 
Guest

RE: Southwest Accident: Charmed?

Tue Mar 06, 2001 9:34 am

Let me put it this way

i live in nashville and i just now heard of it!! i watch the news too. so it must not be that big of a deal. im sure it will cost the airline a few g's

regards
mark
 
jmc1975
Posts: 3053
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

ABQ757

Tue Mar 06, 2001 10:28 am

The reg. # was N334SW
.......
 
jmc1975
Posts: 3053
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

ABQ757, Sorry I Lied

Tue Mar 06, 2001 10:30 am

It was actually N335SW......today I saw N334SW which is a Shamu paint job.
.......
 
aerobalance
Posts: 4312
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 8:35 am

RE: Southwest Accident: Charmed?

Tue Mar 06, 2001 10:50 am

As myself for a pilot reference, a pilot must read the updated NOTAMs' (Notices To Airmen) for the arrival facility before departing on their trip. When listening to ATIS, before arrival, a pilot must make sure that they listen to the whole report before contacting the local approach frequency for any deviation from the normal operating procedures for that facility. From experience, I do know that a long ATIS report is a pain in the a#s to listen to when you are very near to infringing on a controlled airspace area, thus some pilots only listen to the weather portion of the ATIS report and then immediately switch over to approach frequency, therefore potentially missing any hazard advisories on the ATIS report.

happy flying
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
redngold
Posts: 6686
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Southwest Accident: Charmed?

Tue Mar 06, 2001 12:15 pm

Am I right in saying that not every visual approach gives you a good visual? I mean, I've seen a few times where pilots report having the field in sight but I know I can't see them very well... If you can see the rwy lights that's one thing, but obstructions and all of the markings?

Sorry if I sound mike a non-pilot idiot, but I'm very skeptical that any pilot can see the entire runway and all possible obstructions from more than 1 mile away, even at 1,000 ft.

redngold
Up, up and away!
 
redngold
Posts: 6686
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Southwest Accident: Charmed?

Tue Mar 06, 2001 12:16 pm

Let me just add that the pilot should have been able to make a decision about going around, and perhaps this guy or gal didn't make the proper decision.

redngold
Up, up and away!
 
ec
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2000 4:01 pm

RE: Southwest Accident: Charmed?

Tue Mar 06, 2001 4:22 pm

In my opinion this was pilot error. Everybody else landing in PHX for the past month while the runway has been getting resurfaced has landed just fine. Do you think the pilots will lose their jobs?

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos